Map/Compass/Orienteering

[beakerman]

Those orienteering maps are pretty wild looking. Seems like an art in itself, somewhat separate from or in addition to regular map work. A sport I would like to try some day.

I've done alot of sailing and chart work, but still get lost in the woods. I am also a natural whiz and math and geometry, but still get lost. I also took map work during my basic training, but still get lost. In the process I have gotten rather good at bushwacking and map and compass work. So there is your answer. Now if you aren't as trained or qualified as myself, you might not need to get lost so often as me in order to become such an expert. Just saying it worked for me, and continues to serve me well.

Like I said those orienteering maps already have the declination taken into account and there are as I understand it a few ways to do that. One is to "regrid" the map (basically amkethe map point to magnetic north rather than dtrue north or grid north (which are not the same thing depending on where you are on your projection grid) the other is to do all the math ahead of time so the course runners do not have to do it on the fly. that is the method I am used to but I have seen maps that have been re-oriented and they aren't that bad.

[SunnyWalker]

Tilly, it's easy to use map and compass. Get the book or take the class. GPS can be good, but I'd advise not to use it alone. One other factor: weight of GPS can be significant. And then there is the constant battery factor. I wanted to carry something else instead of the GPS so I chose to not carry and use it for backpacking. You hold a compass in one hand, and GPS in other with batts. You'll see.
But also-if you are going to be on an established known trail you certainly could get by without GPS and perhaps without map and compass! The AT would be an example. The CDT-you'd need map and compass at the least. When I speak of maps I mean topographical maps. Compass would be a Brunton or Silva liquid filled compass.

[rhjanes]

Orienteering maps are incredibly detailed. The beginner level courses are usually easy (on trail) or use things like power lines, pipelines and fences to navigate.
There are two things to focus on with orienteering and bring forward into any "woods" activity.
One is the map to compass and how to use them together.
The second is reading the map for land features and following those. Sometimes orienteers will attempt a course and NOT use the compass. They read the land features. Quite handy when following a trail. "follow the trail until the second bend. Cross the stream on the left when the trail breaks to the right. go 20 paces and intersect a fence. Follow the fence to the right until it takes a 90 degree bend. Pick up the powerline and follow it." Really helpful in following trails, rivers, etc.

[LIhikers]

Check http://www.indyo.org/ for an orienteering club in Indiana

[fiddlehead]

Tilly, using a GPS may seem intimidating to you if you've never used one, but in reality it is very easy, just as Mags said above. However, if you take the time and effort to learn the old fashioned map and compass, you will be in much better shape when the battery of your GPS gets discharged, or the unit fails for some other reason. You will also have much more fun during your hikes.

And on the other hand, when it's foggy, drizzling, and you are totally lost, and just wish you could figure out where you are on your map, that's when it's not so easy out there.
Don't discount the importance of a GPS on trails where there often is not a trail.
I bushwhack more than most and find the GPS the most important tool in my pack sometimes.

I now even prefer to hike without a trail. (except when I'm invading a monkey's space)

[Dogwood]

And on the other hand, when it's foggy, drizzling, and you are totally lost, and just wish you could figure out where you are on your map, that's when it's not so easy out there.
Don't discount the importance of a GPS on trails where there often is not a trail.
I bushwhack more than most and find the GPS the most important tool in my pack sometimes.

While there are times when I would rather have a GPS folks have been "eventually" finding there way out there long before they were around. They are just another heplful tool to route finding, as long as you know how to use them. Same with a compass! I will say though, at times when I possessed quite detailed accurate maps and compass, and they eventually assisted me finding my way, after getting lost, there were times when I wish I had a GPS, like when I was lost in the bottom of a remote canyon system in Utah, bushwaking/hiking in dense Hawaiian forest with less than 30 ft visibility and no way to climb a tree to find any identifiable features from my maps, or hiking off trail in dense fog in Vermont with less than 10 ft visibility, or continuing to hike in heavy snowfall with less than 20 ft visibility in Colorado, or any of the hikes I've done in Texas, Arizona, Utah, or S. California where there are no distinguishable map features in view other than 20 ft elevation changes, or while kayaking in the Everglades No fences, no mountains, no rivers, no roads, no cliffs, no major identifiable elev changes just a compass telling me that if I headed "that" direction for 20, 30, 40 miles I would eventually come across something I could recognize from my maps.

[Connie]

I use a Silva wrist compass with a sighting slot, so I don't have to fumble around.

I also use a GPS, and I mark difficult parts of a trail (steep dropoff, like that) as waypoints, so if I have to back in a hurry, including in a hurry at night or in fog, I have the difficult parts of the trail marked.

If too dangerous, I go to Plan B: "stay put, Bivouac". Maybe radio for assistance. I haven't had to do that.

+1 for orienteering training, but the club may be about speed events. Get the usual training, including practice in the field with supervision.

Especially, ask for help to find your position where you are. I use an altimeter to help in fog, when I was using only map and compass. Now I use all three: map, compass, and gps (includes altimeter).

I find the most useful help to know where you are is to be observant, and to turn and look at where I came in the woods or where there are features if in the open, maybe mountains right side, road left side, lake that way, for example, and then more detail. Of course, looking at a map and checking where you are, at times, helps.

Seriously, if you see a trail sign in the CDT don't necessarily believe it. Strawberry Crk Tr. has five or six signs altogether, with only one pointing in the right direction. There is nothing on the CDT "trail" like the signage, or the maintained signage, on the AT. Really.

I have some helpful information on my orienteering page.

[crazyonelost]

I know I am not the great map reader/compass user,but again i usually stay on well marked blazed trails. I usually use them when hiking to figure out my spot on the map to the location I am at .

I have a gps but I found out that deep canyons/tree cover/weather effects it alot and sometimes no signal at all. I usually use the gps to see how far to the next waypoint in general and when I am home download the trail route to my topomap program and see how the trail ran and store it for later use. I also use the speed and time to see what my general pace overall was.

[The Old Fhart]

I am surprised that only poster, Connie, 2 post back, mentioned using an altimeter. An altimeter is one of the simplest tools you can add to map and compass that will greatly enhance your ability to locate your position. For the last 25 years or so I have used various Casio watches with altimeter. If you have a map and aren't hiking on a flat trail, an altimeter can help pinpoint your location. If you wear a watch anyway, like I do, getting one with an altimeter feature adds no extra weight. The current Casio watch I use is model PAW-1300 which has temp/compass/barometer/altimeter built in. For techo-geeks, here is a youtube video review of the watch. Although this watch is high end and a little expensive, basic watches with just an altimeter feature aren't that expensive. Well worth looking into.

[Pedaling Fool]

I've never used an altimeter, but I can see the advantage of one, provided that you calibrate at every opportunity when you’re at a known elevation. And you must also be mindful that if you go to sleep at a known elevation – verified that night – it may be different the next morning, due to weather conditions. So it’s very important to check it before you leave camp. In short, you got to keep track of it. But, in all fairness you got to keep track of magnetic declination as well when using a compass.

Of course this doesn’t apply to GPS altimeters.

[crazyonelost]

On my trip last week Laurel Highland trail. My partner and I had 2 diff gps units and there were at least 500 ft difference of elevation between the units.

[Sly]

Looked online and fudged it. Half the fun is not knowing exactly where you are. The other half is finding yourself.

[weary]

Tilly, using a GPS may seem intimidating to you if you've never used one, but in reality it is very easy, just as Mags said above. However, if you take the time and effort to learn the old fashioned map and compass, you will be in much better shape when the battery of your GPS gets discharged, or the unit fails for some other reason. You will also have much more fun during your hikes.

I agree. Learning to use a simple GPS is easy. As easy as using a simple point and shoot camera. The key words are simple. Sophisticated GPS, like sophisticated point and shoot cameras, have complications that only a bit of study and a lot of practice enables one to be proficient.

My Delorme PN 40 has multiple menus and multiple pages. Each simple in themselves. But putting it all together takes more effort than I've devoted to it so far. Same with my sophisticated point and shoot camera. So on both I've only learned as much as I've needed to know at the moment -- something like my computers, despite almost two decades of using the things. I've learned to make my GPS create a track and how to transfer that track to a map that anyone with a simple compass can use.

But to get to the point of this thread. People have been finding their way in the woods for millennia with crude maps and compasses. I can attest that using a GPS makes it easy to map a trail you have created. It does nothing else that I have found I need to know, at least so far.

Weary

[Shutterbug]

IAlso, it is feasible to find your way in an isolated area with only a map and compass?

I learned basic navigation skills from my father. He never used any insturment -- not even a compass. I use a compass or gps to confirm my navigation, but basically rely on my instinct.

My father and I fished large lakes in Arkansas and Louisiana. After a long day of fishing, he could always go directly back to the boat dock without a map, a compass or a gps. His tips were:

1. Pay attention to landmarks.
2. Be aware of the direction by watching the sun.
3. Stay oriented at all times. If you wait until you are lost to determine directions, it won't really help you. You need to know in what direction you have gone to know what direction to return.
4. Pay attention to wind direction.
5. What they tought us in scouts about moss growing only on the north side of the tree isn't true but one can confirm directions by observing the local moss patterns.
6. Listen -- your ears can help you stay oriented. Notice the sounds you hear on your way out. They can help guide you on the way back. I have been on a lake when the fog rolled in. If it hadn't been for the sound of the train in the distance, I might still be out there.

So, to answer your question, it is very feasible to find your way in an isolated area with nothing more than a map and a compass.

[The Old Fhart]

crazyonelost-"On my trip last week Laurel Highland trail. My partner and I had 2 diff gps units and there were at least 500 ft difference of elevation between the units."

WARNING-technical explanation follows.

the elevation a GPS displays isn't commonly understood. While a minimum of 3 satellites is needed for location, a minimum of 4 are needed for elevation. Signal strength and satellite geometry play a big part in elevation readings. What makes matters worse is the elevation displayed on a GPS isn't the elevation above MSL (mean sea level) like a barometric based altimeter, but above a model of the earth which isn't exact. If you check out this NOAA reference it will state that if taken carefully, the GPS elevations could be about 175 feet off because the model of our earth isn't exact. The roatation of the earth causes it to 'bulge' in certain areas so it isn't an exact sphere. Elevation readings on maps have been taken by barometric based altimeters and when set recently at a known reference point, are generally quite accurate, generally within a very few feet.

NOAA-"The Global Positioning System (GPS) is commonly considered a three-dimensional system. But, the heights obtained from GPS are typically heights above an ellipsoidal model of the Earth. These GPS ellipsoidal heights are not consistent with leveled heights above mean sea level, often known as orthometric height. The conversion from ellipsoid to orthometric height requires a geoid height model. Geoid heights in the conterminous United States range from about -8 meters to -53 meters, and display considerable variation in the mountains. Through the use of careful GPS survey procedures coupled with high-resolution geoid models, surveyors have obtained orthometric heights with an accuracy commensurate with that of leveling."

[Pedaling Fool]

WARNING-technical explanation follows.

the elevation a GPS displays isn't commonly understood. While a minimum of 3 satellites is needed for location, a minimum of 4 are needed for elevation. Signal strength and satellite geometry play a big part in elevation readings. What makes matters worse is the elevation displayed on a GPS isn't the elevation above MSL (mean sea level) like a barometric based altimeter, but above a model of the earth which isn't exact. If you check out this NOAA reference it will state that if taken carefully, the GPS elevations could be about 175 feet off because the model of our earth isn't exact. The roatation of the earth causes it to 'bulge' in certain areas so it isn't an exact sphere. Elevation readings on maps have been taken by barometric based altimeters and when set recently at a known reference point, are generally quite accurate, generally within a very few feet.

Interesting, I did not know that.

[camperpat]

I joined an orienteering club, they are all over the country. It's a fun way to learn map and compass skills. I belong to Delaware Valley Orienteering Club, their web site has a link for other clubs in the USA Camperpat

[crazyonelost]

I still can't figure out the exact lat/long on a certain point on a map.but everything else I have a decent idea of reading it. I usually don't pay attention since my gps does it for me automatically.Great tool when using for search and rescue and injuries way off roads to help in emergency call for help to find you.