alcohol/fuel longevity

[IronGutsTommy]

Ive heard that some dinners such as soups can take 15 to 20 minutes to cook on the trail, and obviously longer in colder climates. I am aware that fuel weighs more per volume than alcohol, but putting aside the added weight, is one better off with a fuel stove or an alcohol one when hiking the AT in winter time? Does one tend to cook faster, does one of the fuel sources last longer, etc.. Noob question I know but I would rather go on the forum and LOOK stupid than go on the trail and HIKE stupid. Thanks for any info.

[kayak karl]

its a personal choice, but you are not cooking. your just boiling water. add dehydrated food and let it sit in a cozy till done. you can practice this in your own kitchen. test cozy by letting it cook in frig.
some will say alcohol is hard to lite in low temps. been down to zero, no problem.

[Panzer1]

I agree its a personal choice. There are many good stoves on the market, each stove has advantages and disadvantages. Many here on WB have multiple stoves. I have 5 different stoves and like all of them. Buy a couple of stoves and see for yourself which one you like best.

Panzer

[IronGutsTommy]

any preferences on canister vs alcohol for ease of use or reliability?

[Panzer1]

any preferences on canister vs alcohol for ease of use or reliability?

Alcohol stoves tend to have no or few moving parts so I think that makes them the most reliable.

Canister stoves are hotter and can cook a meal faster so I think that makes them more convenient. canister stoves don't work well in the winter though.

Panzer

[russb]

Another item to note is the spectrum of alcohol stoves available. The differences in speed, efficiency and performance of the myriad of alcohol burners makes it very difficult to generalize with them. While canister stoves are all basically the same.

[garlic08]

I heard that if you regularly carry more than 10 ounces of alcohol, the weight savings of the stove is negated.

The alcohol stove is best for just boiling water once a day for a simple meal (one that will cook in bag or a pot cozy). If you can use less than one ounce of fuel per day, the alcohol stove is a good bet. If you need to melt snow for water, make hot drinks often, etc, a gas stove may be better.

It's also difficult to simmer with alcohol. It can be done with either a simmer ring or by carefully adding a few drops of water to dilute the fuel. But it's tricky.

I've used my alcohol stove on winter overnighters and it's worked fine in temps down to minus 10F. It actually works very well for melting snow because it starts out with a cool flame so you won't burn the pot when it's full of powder. But it takes too much fuel for long-term use.

[Spokes]

Every Iron Chef knows "al dente" is the best!

[IronGutsTommy]

well itll be winter time so ill likely be melting snow and making hot drinks from time to time. dont really want to pack both kinds due to weight.. seems canister stoves are better for my purposes but worse to use in winter time, while alcohol stoves are good in winter but less practical for snow melting etc.. seems i am in a catch 22. which way to go, which way to go...

[budforester]

I liked my SVEA 123, burning coleman fuel. Trusted it for cold conditions and high altitude.

[IronGutsTommy]

just checked out the SVEA 123 on youtube.. looks like a champ. thanks for the mention, may go that route

[leaftye]

well itll be winter time so ill likely be melting snow and making hot drinks from time to time. dont really want to pack both kinds due to weight.. seems canister stoves are better for my purposes but worse to use in winter time, while alcohol stoves are good in winter but less practical for snow melting etc.. seems i am in a catch 22. which way to go, which way to go...

Since you're contemplating melting snow, maybe you might want a multi fuel wood burner. Trail Designs and Evernew are the first two that come to mind, but I'd go with Trail Designs for their Caldera Tri-Ti ULC. Wood burning will allow you to melt lots of water without having to carry lots of fuel, but you can also burn alcohol and esbit when you don't want the hassle of wood.



Of course you will be on the AT and resupply is much easier there, so I suppose picking up spare isobutane canisters may not be all that bad.

[IronGutsTommy]

thanks for the info.. only used big camp stoves b4, a trail stove is almost alien to me.. hope they have decent directions lol

[Siestita]

"just checked out the SVEA 123 on youtube.. looks like a champ. thanks for the mention, may go that route"

"That route" is using a liquid petroleum stove, esentially a smaller version of the white gas "Coleman type" stoves that you've probably used for car camping. To cook for groups of people during the winter liquid petroleum (white gas) would definitely be the way to go.

But SVEA is not necessarily the easiest white gas stove to use. SVEA is said to have been the first pertroleum burning mountainerering stove ever made, so it provides its enthusiasts with re-enactment opportunites--chances to use technology that hasn't changed appreciably since the 1880s or 1890s. SVEA (and similar products) still dominated backpacking when I started doing it in 1972, so I've owned two SVEAs. They are cantangerous and can be challenging to prime when you need them most, when its cold and wet. The damn things always roar and sometimes flare up, satisfiying survivors' pyromanic instincts. SVEAs also, like all white gas stoves, eventually clog.

During the the 1970s or 1980s MSR developed improved white gas stoves that have fuel pumps, use fuel bottles as gas tanks, and have self-cleaning needles (to delay the clogging) Once I started using an MRS Whiperlite white gas stove I decided I would never voluntarily return to SVEA world.

Actually these days both my Whisperlite and my canister stove almost always stay home. Alcohol's lighter weight (the overall set up, not not the fuel) and reliabilty keep me happy.

[Lyle]

During the the 1970s or 1980s MSR developed improved white gas stoves that have fuel pumps, use fuel bottles as gas tanks, and have self-cleaning needles (to delay the clogging) Once I started using an MRS Whiperlite white gas stove I decided I would never voluntarily return to SVEA world.

Well, I guess your opinion and my opinion of improved differ. I never found the SVEA to be all that difficult to light, was eminently dependable, and completely trouble-free once you learned the basics of how to use it.

I did jump on the MSR Wisperlight bandwagon briefly, but really saw no advantages and several disadvantages, such as the periodic need to disassemble, clean and reassemble. Switched back to the SVEA.

The only time flaring is an issue with the SVEA is when it is first lit, just use some common sense then. I miss the "roar" of the SVEA, it was always a pleasant experience that emphasized the quietness of the woods when it was turned off - gave a renewed appreciation for this silence every day, something that is often missing today. I will say, it was not conducive to early morning exits from camp without waking others, but when I get an early start, I usually like to hike a couple of miles before stopping for breakfast anyway.

After saying all this, I have to agree with your final sentiment. For most three-season trips, the SVEA has been replaced with some form of alcohol stove. Works simply and is MUCH lighter.

[peakbagger]

My friend and I section hiked half the AT. We didnt share gear so each brought their own stove. He switched to alcohol and I stayed with a pocket rocket with a custom heat shield. He basically did heat and eat meals where water was heated up to boiling, then dumped it into the ingredients and stirred. I usually did Lipton Sides that required longer simmering. With the heat shield in place on the pocket rocket, I could turn the stove way down to simmer and got 13 days on a cannister with two hot meals per day. BOth systems worked but I ate a better variety.

The other major advantage to me was that on cold nights (we tended to hike early season or late season), I could crank up my stove and heat up a water bottle for the sleeping bag before going to bed. On one very cold night one spring, I actually had to heat another one up at around 3 in the morning. He probably could have done the same thing with an alcohol stove but it would have been a lot more hassle. Very rarely was cold temps a limiting factor for the MSR although it was noticable when the tank was low that it lost performance.

[IronGutsTommy]

narrowed it down to msr pocet rocket or msr reactor. the weight and size of the pocket rocket are tempting, but the reactors self containment and fuel conservation looks good too.. for the reactor, ive heard the fuel canisters are only available in certain locations, so i guess my decision rests upon finding those canisters along the trail.. any reactor enthusiasts whove had luck finding compatible canisters along the trail?