Bathing in a stream

[borntobeoutdoors]

Nor have I really found any. But in the interests of full disclosure, I probably should report that some scientists have found that german cockroaches can be killed with household detergents, though the study didn't give the required concentration.

Also I ran across a paper in which it was claimed that eating out of washed, but unrinsed dishes could result in soap scum dissolving the mucous lining of the stomach, causing upset. The author's advice? If a dish tastes soapy, rinse it before using.

This won't change my activities in the woods, because I don't wash either myself or my dishes in streams near trails, or where I am not familiar with the downstream conditions, out of deference to those who object to the practice.

But I continue to believe that the harmful effects of soap have been greatly exaggeration.

Weary

And you received your degree in biology when? And where? You have what credentials that would qualify you to contradict scientists in the particular fields that apply to what is being discussed?

Do you have any evidence that contradicts the experts in these fields?

[fiddlehead]

Funny that people still think you need some kind of a degree to know something.
I had a meeting with the most popular web-designer on the island here in Phuket a few weeks ago. When we finished, i told him that i wish i could go back to university and learn some of this stuff like CSS and Jumla and PHP etc.
He said: "do you think i am a college graduate?" I said "of course" he said "i learned everything i know by looking it up on google.
I think a university education will become not so important anymore.

Keep it coming Weary. YOur posts are always interesting and usually enlightening. degree or whatever.

[JAK]

I agree. Anyone can be a scientist.
A university degree is just a symptom.

[FlimFlam]

I hate when that happens. I always hit copy with my posts that seem the best, musch to the chagrin of the other WBers.

Ha! I should do that. Well now I'll have to spend the next 6 months gathering and organizing my thoughts to post a coherent, useful message. Darn!

[Appalachian Tater]

A university degree is just a symptom.

This seems to be an original and highly quotable sentence.

What is it a symptom of?

[orangebug]

Very original! I couldn't find the same quote on Google.

But what is it a symptom of?

Anyone else heard the addage that BS stands for what you anticipate, MS -> more of the same.

And PHD -> Piled Higher and Deeper

(MD -> More Dung)

[scout005]

i was told in one of my outdoor courses that biodegradable soap only degrades on land not in a stream. they said to get wet, take a collapsible bucket of water away from the stream, lather up and rinse off on land not in the stream. repeat as necessary. The nylon bucket i have weighs next to nothing and was cheap. i think it's made by coughlans.

[NorthCountryWoods]

Isn't swimming (bathing without soap) in ponds/lakes/streams part of backpacking?

Absolutely. It's a constant sight in VT. It's still perfectly legal to be nekid in public just about everywhere in state. Stay home if you're easily offended.

Have noticed an increase in "Flatlander outrage" over it in recent years. Buzzkill.

[Jaybird]

i was told in one of my outdoor courses that biodegradable soap only degrades on land not in a stream. they said to get wet, take a collapsible bucket of water away from the stream, lather up and rinse off on land not in the stream. repeat as necessary. The nylon bucket i have weighs next to nothing and was cheap. i think it's made by coughlans.

Great ideas, SCOUT!

I've always taken "Wet Wipes" for my bathing purposes...but wading thru a nice cold stream....does INVIGORATE you! (minus the SOAP)

see ya'll out there (w/ "Jigsaw") April-May Turk Gap to Harpers Ferry

[Tinker]

My understanding was that while most soaps are indeed biodegradable- only so in soil, not water

That's the way I heard it. Biodegradable soap supposedly degrades when microorganisms in soil feed on it.

I take a cookpot and fill it with water from a stream, walk away from the stream, and wash and rinse. I also take advantage of a heavy rain (if it's not too cold), and take a shower (again, away from water sources).\

I have been known to jump into a river or lake unwashen occasionally. I think the soap is more of a problem than the sweat and trail dirt.

I use a water filter. I might have other feelings if I drank it straight or chemically treated water.

[theinfamousj]

In almost three completions (and countless gear lists) I have never seen anyone else carry a collapsible bucket for washing.

I don't carry a collapsible bucket for washing, but I do turn my pack cover inside out and use it as a large basin for washing. I cannot go to bed dirty so I do a head-to-toe scrub down before every night. And I do this far, far away from the water source and with biodegradable soap.

Am I the only one? Please tell me I'm not. Anyone else wash up in a similar manner?

[Wise Old Owl]

Sorry folks I am not going to read all the posts - the primary ingredient is Sodium hydroxide, its the more expensive caustic soda because it is less harmful to the environment. My suggestion in future is to worry a little less about polluting the environment, The Chinese are doing a far better job by following our example by joining us in the burning of millions of tons of cheap coal to create electricity without the use of important scrubbers.

The Ivory soap bar (classic) contains: sodium tallowate, sodium cocoate or sodium palm kernelate, water, sodium chloride, sodium silicate, magnesium sulfate, and fragrance.

Sodium Tallowate is lye,


Sodium hydroxide does not bioaccumulate due to its high solubility in water. It is considered slightly toxic to aquatic organisms unless there is a significant pH shift outside the range of 5 – 10; this change may be toxic to aquatic organisms. ie dumping a very large quantity of soap

I am not 100 percent of the answer... I just don't see the harm to aquatic life vs stinking up the next trail town. Enjoy. Join the Chinese in keeping clean, I suspect bathing was invented by them.

[Montego]

I don't carry a collapsible bucket for washing, but I do turn my pack cover inside out and use it as a large basin for washing. I cannot go to bed dirty so I do a head-to-toe scrub down before every night. And I do this far, far away from the water source and with biodegradable soap.

Am I the only one? Please tell me I'm not. Anyone else wash up in a similar manner?

I use to carry a collapsible bucket for washing back in the days of yore. After an unfortunate accident (posted on another thread) I ditched the bucket and just started using the bottom cut from an empty 1 gal milk jug. It's only about two inches deep but serves well enough with a bandana and camp soap and, though more fragile, it's a bunch lighter to carry.

[general]

don't use no filter, clean thyself whenever necessary. common sense would tell most people that if you're not using a filter or some chemical you most likely wouldn't want to get water where there is a creek large enough to submerge oneself in. walk up stream from established campsites, maybe on a smaller tributary, small enough that you couldn't submerge oneself in and get water there.

i live on the chattahoochee river in northeast georgia, several miles below the tourist trap of helen, which sees millions of tubers in the summer time and also dumps treated human waste in the river just south of town. i had the water tested here just for kicks, in the summer time a few years ago. you can drink it too.

[Trail Trooper]

If A Bear Washes His Balls In A Stream So Can I

[Sir-Packs-Alot]

Hmmm... At the top of the page - the poll asked if it bothered me if hikers bathed in streams - and I voted no - because it hasn't. After reading the back and forths though - and considering my views on conservation and LNT - I'd vote yes next time.
(at least I admitted to being a flip-flopper!)

I do carry one of Sea to Summits superlight/compact water bucket and carry it back to camp / shelter to filter from. I hardly ever do a full body bathe on trail - but I see no reason I couildn't "do my thing" in a private spot away from a water source utilizing the bucket (I know they make a version of the bucket with a tiny little plastic showerhead underneath as well (size of a button) so you can hang it (but it's not heavy-like the car-camping showers most people know).

However, I'll vote for just soaking in the water to cool off - no soap - and waiting for the next town for a real shower or bathe !

[Just Dan]

like a person bathing is going to be grosser than years of collected fish/crawdad poop.

[Graywolf]

like a person bathing is going to be grosser than years of collected fish/crawdad poop.

Hey thats the flavoring....

Graywolf

[Connie]

If soap, then away from the water.

But no phosphates and no detergents.

The phosphates are harmful, killing beneficial micro-organisms.

Detergents can kill everything in a puddle, a pond, a small lake because the detergent molecule stands on end depriving the water of oxygen.

The natural way to wash-up, is wood ash on your own sweat-oils and rinse.

Not every wood ash. Some wood ash is to be avoided.

I mention this, because I detect some people in the thread want to be natural as well as au natural.

The wood ash on sweat-oils and rinse is natural.

Phosphates and detergents are not.

[vonfrick]

This may sound nuts, but I've used the following on week long trips in the whites and am pretty sure this is as good as it gets for quick/easy/enviro friendly daily dips....

1) restaurant mayo packet (for fat content....)
2) a decent pinch of fine "campfire ashes" (Alkali)
3) small amount of pine sap (this will make the soap anti-bacterial as well)

Mix it all together and use the "goop" as you would a body soap...the amount of pine sap and ashes should be small at first to avoid minor skin rashes (too much alkili) or increased if water is not removing the "oiliness" from the mayo (fat/lard)

this is the same thing as commercial soap minus the fragrances, so why not just bring soap?

So why not just use one of those "environmentally friendly" soaps made from vegetable oils (e.g. Camp Suds) or some other such cleaner.

see?

Camp Suds and similar products are harmless in the quantities likely to be used along a trail. But so are ordinary bars of Ivory Soap and other mild soaps.

Expensive "special" backcountry soaps are mostly a sales gimmick, as near as I can tell. And I've been looking for evidence to the contrary for years.

Weary

yup

The Ivory soap bar (classic) contains: sodium tallowate, sodium cocoate or sodium palm kernelate, water, sodium chloride, sodium silicate, magnesium sulfate, and fragrance.

Sodium Tallowate is lye,

no, it is lye reacted with the fatty acid commonly known as tallow, b/c we are too sqeamish to call it what it is, beef fat. the other 2 compounds mentioned after are analogous.

for the record i don't bring or use any soap at all, it is pointless. you just get dirty again, and the constant rain seems to do the trick. as far as washing pots goes, if you haven't licked that thing clean- you haven't hiked enough.