Trail of Tears, and Cherokee Removal

[Smile]

every white guy i know it seems claims to be some part cherokee

Everybody screwed the indians.

[Tennessee Viking]

I have been by a few ToT locations.

There is an old guardsman hut for an old campsite located at Tatham Gap outside of above Robbinsville and Andrews NC.

Then a lot of the roads and highways in and around Murfreesboro, Nashville, and Chattanooga TN allow the route. Charleston TN is known for being the official starting town of the ToT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston,_Tennessee

There is a driving route for the Trail of Tears. But there was so many groups of Cherokees being relocated that a lot of them took their own routes.

[Trailbender]

The Irish were chattel slaves?

Even worse. Slaves cost money and were considered property. That is wrong, obviously, but many of the Irish, Russians, ect, were indentured servants, meaning they had to work 7 years to pay off the cost of their ticket, so they were basically owned for that time period, barely fed, ect. It is a largely forgotten part of our history.

To understand why slaves were usually treated "better", the average slave cost 20K in today's dollars. That is why only 6% of whites ever owned slaves. In fact, many poor whites worked alongside slaves in the fields.

The US learned the slave trade from the Spanish and Portugese, who used them extensively in South American silver mines and sugar plantations.

[Mags]

every white guy i know it seems claims to be some part cherokee

I am a Wopahoe myself..

[Gray Blazer]

every white guy i know it seems claims to be some part cherokee

What's wrong with being white?

[Gray Blazer]

The US learned the slave trade from the Spanish and Portugese ...

... who learned it from the Africans and the Arabs. Hellooo ...

[glessed]

Newfound Gap, located near the center of the Great Smokey Mountains National Park is right on the AT. Many people take a break at this point and take the shuttle West to Gatlinburg for a hiking break. The other option, which I recommend is to take the shuttle (from the park at Newfound Gap) East to the City of Cherokee and stay there.

Cherokee City has another shuttle, that you can call from anywhere, that will transport you any location within Cherokee for $1.00. What a bargain! It's a small city but the people are very friendly. A Cherokee Museum is located here. I didn't visit the casino there which seemed "out of character" for my hike, but I did eat at a few of their small restaurants. Also got into a lot of conversations about the Cherokee culture, etc.

The Museum of the Cherokee Indian hosts and exhibits an extensive collection of artifacts and items of historical and cultural interest related to the Cherokee Culture.

The Cherokee Heritage Center also displays historical artifacts related to the march of the Cherokee on the Trail of Tears.

It's interesting to note that this group "Eastern Cherokee" did not participate in the Trail of Tears. They were successful in their opposition.

The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians still practice many of the original ceremonies, and many prominent Cherokee historians are affiliated with, or members of the Eastern Band.

[greenmtnboy]

Growing up outside of Rochester, NY we were taught a great deal about the Iroquois League and local Native American history. We also learned something about the the Indians in New England and the Great Plains.

I knew nothing of the Cherokee and the Trail of Tears until I visited Dahlonaga at the end of my hike.

In part because this chapter of American history came a surprise to me, I found it particularly disturbing. And even more disturbing to think of how the Cherokee were not only integrating themselves into the the larger society around them, but building colonial style homes and farms, and creating wealth. Becoming integrated into the society like so many other groups that make up this great country. I didn't know a great deal about that (still don't) but it certainly didn't mesh with what I thought I know about Native Americans of that day.

Then to learn how suddenly the tide turned against them because of gold and greed and no small dose of evil perpetrated by Andrew Jackson (often said to be on of our 10 greatest) and others around him...

Worth thinking about as one walks through land where the Cherokee once lived as a prospering people.

1828 began the first gold rush in American history. The museum in Dahlonega is definitely worth visiting for the small fee.

The environmental devastation is plainly apparent as you go through that part of northern Georgia where water cannons were used to blast away hills and mountains in search of gold.

The Supreme Court ruled in behalf of the Indians, but Jackson would not enforce the law in their behalf--not politically advantageous...

[Bucherm]

Even worse. Slaves cost money and were considered property. That is wrong, obviously, but many of the Irish, Russians, ect, were indentured servants, meaning they had to work 7 years to pay off the cost of their ticket, so they were basically owned for that time period, barely fed, ect. It is a largely forgotten part of our history.

To understand why slaves were usually treated "better", the average slave cost 20K in today's dollars. That is why only 6% of whites ever owned slaves. In fact, many poor whites worked alongside slaves in the fields.

The US learned the slave trade from the Spanish and Portugese, who used them extensively in South American silver mines and sugar plantations.

Probably a majority of whites heading to North America were "indentured servants" before the mid 18th century. Do you have something to back up your claim that most Irish and East Europeans were indentured servants in the US(bearing in mind most Irish and East Europeans headed well after indentured servitude(as in, in order to pay for making the transit) petered out in the States?

A quick wiki check says 80% of whites heading to North America prior to the American Revolution were indentured servants, and that the indentured servitude mostly went away after the early 19th century(in otherwords, either right at the start of the major wave of Irish immigration, and well before the wave of East European immigration). Even if I were to accept that it was true that most Irish and East Europeans were indentured servants(and I don't, as you've given no evidence to support the statement) then it's no worse of a situation that the majority of Britishers had to face arriving in North America. And at least there was(generally) a set date of release, unlike chattel slaves.

But the timeline doesn't fit your assertation.

[Rain Man]

... who learned it from the Africans and the Arabs. Hellooo ...

Who did the Greeks and Romans learn it from?

Rain Man

.

[Trailbender]

Probably a majority of whites heading to North America were "indentured servants" before the mid 18th century. Do you have something to back up your claim that most Irish and East Europeans were indentured servants in the US(bearing in mind most Irish and East Europeans headed well after indentured servitude(as in, in order to pay for making the transit) petered out in the States?

A quick wiki check says 80% of whites heading to North America prior to the American Revolution were indentured servants, and that the indentured servitude mostly went away after the early 19th century(in otherwords, either right at the start of the major wave of Irish immigration, and well before the wave of East European immigration). Even if I were to accept that it was true that most Irish and East Europeans were indentured servants(and I don't, as you've given no evidence to support the statement) then it's no worse of a situation that the majority of Britishers had to face arriving in North America. And at least there was(generally) a set date of release, unlike chattel slaves.

But the timeline doesn't fit your assertation.

It does. Irish people were not even considered white. They were generally treated much worse than black slaves. Most black slaves were actually treated fairly well, and cases of abuse were not in the majority. Not that it makes slavery ok, but throughout human history, every race and group of people were enslaved at one time or another.

[Rain Man]

It was very shameful and cruel the way the American Indians were treated by the early White Man

You think they have been treated pretty well by "later" White Man?

What about how Asians were treated by White Man out west? Good?

To my knowledge, Asians could not own property in western States until well into the 20th Century, long after "Indians" and "Blacks" could own property in the South.

You are correct, it was shameful, but let's open our eyes to other areas and periods. It continued to be shameful and still is. You know how Hispanics are treated today by current White Man? Know about migrant workers and slavery today? It's well documented. And shameful.

White Man has a pretty horrible track record and seems intent on burnishing the polish on it continually. We certainly have no laurels to rest on.

Rain Man

.

[Rain Man]

The Supreme Court ruled in behalf of the Indians, but Jackson would not enforce the law in their behalf--not politically advantageous...

What about the Northern dominated Congress? What did it do to stop,-- or aid and abet,-- Jackson? Plenty of blame to spread around.

I recommend "American Lion" by Jon Meacham. Really educational book about all aspects of Jackson, truly one of our greatest Presidents, and flawed as all seem to be, yes.

You know that Christian fundamentalists were trying to get laws passed during his Presidency that would outlaw Islam and Muslims from holding public office?

The more things change....

Rain Man

.

[rickb]

I recommend "American Lion" by Jon Meacham. Really educational book about all aspects of Jackson, truly one of our greatest Presidents, and flawed as all seem to be, yes.

Smarter people than me will agree with your take on Jackson.

For me it is interesting to ponder that a man who worked to not only preserve slavery but expand it, and who would brutally and forcefully have the Cherokee and Seminoles taken from their homes (killing many, many in the process) despite order from the Supreme Court protecting them, could ever be called one of our greatest Presidents.

Perhaps he was, on balance. But geesh, that is an awful lot to overlook.

Certainly these kinds of things are something to think about when walking through the beautiful mountain of Northwest Georgia. And in the end that is all I am suggesting. Not any great wisdom about our history, just that it is worth thinking about all that has gone on in the lands one is walking on.

[Lilred]

A very small part of the BMT at Unicoi Gap follows a portion of the Trail of Tears. (The same portion that was also a major trading route in the day).

http://www.tennesseeoverhill.com/uni....asp?unicoigap

There are markers near my home where the trail of tears passed.

[Lilred]

Growing up outside of Rochester, NY we were taught a great deal about the Iroquois League and local Native American history. We also learned something about the the Indians in New England and the Great Plains.

I knew nothing of the Cherokee and the Trail of Tears until I visited Dahlonaga at the end of my hike.

In part because this chapter of American history came a surprise to me, I found it particularly disturbing. And even more disturbing to think of how the Cherokee were not only integrating themselves into the the larger society around them, but building colonial style homes and farms, and creating wealth. Becoming integrated into the society like so many other groups that make up this great country. I didn't know a great deal about that (still don't) but it certainly didn't mesh with what I thought I know about Native Americans of that day.

Then to learn how suddenly the tide turned against them because of gold and greed and no small dose of evil perpetrated by Andrew Jackson (often said to be on of our 10 greatest) and others around him...

Worth thinking about as one walks through land where the Cherokee once lived as a prospering people.

Davy Crocket was the only congressman to vote against Jackson and the removal of the Cherokee. He lost his seat at the next election because of it and went out to Texas.

[Lilred]

What about the Northern dominated Congress? What did it do to stop,-- or aid and abet,-- Jackson? Plenty of blame to spread around.

I recommend "American Lion" by Jon Meacham. Really educational book about all aspects of Jackson, truly one of our greatest Presidents, and flawed as all seem to be, yes.

You know that Christian fundamentalists were trying to get laws passed during his Presidency that would outlaw Islam and Muslims from holding public office?

The more things change....

Rain Man

.

Three of my ancestors were in a shooting match with Jackson's best friend and killed him. They went on trial and Jackson did everything he could to get the three brothers hanged. Even tried to bribe the jury. The brothers got off. Jackson said "The Magness clan is nothing but a bunch of scoundrels and scallywags". My maiden name is Magness..... I'm not particularly fond of him myself. This was when he was still a lawyer in Nashville, TN. It's touted as being Nashville's most famous trial.

[SassyWindsor]

I remember from prior readings that Chunky Gal Trail that turns off the AT close to Deep Gap in NC and runs west was an actual trail that was a part of the Trail of Tears. I remember reading it was a major trail (in years past) in the area and would have to be 200 years or so old to have been a part of the actual Trail of Tears. Had to do with Indians in North Ga, Gold at Dahlonega and the Government wanting to separate the two.

[Bucherm]

It does. Irish people were not even considered white. They were generally treated much worse than black slaves. Most black slaves were actually treated fairly well, and cases of abuse were not in the majority. Not that it makes slavery ok, but throughout human history, every race and group of people were enslaved at one time or another.

How does it fit the timeline? Indentured servitude was more or less over in North America in the first half of the 19th century, and the largest wave of Irish immigration began with the Famine in the 1840s.

[Chester Copperpot]