Tarping: Critters & gear concerns.

[hallelujahjafar]

So, I'm going to ask a very unmanly question about tarping. I am highly interested in the idea of tarping for all of its benefits, but I am also concerned with the stories. Therefore, I'll ask all of you tarp pitchers about your experience with the openness of sleeping under a tarp and all of the different insects, the bloodsuckers, the eight leggers, the even more legged, reptiles, and even the furry ones. Have you had problems with finding a few uninvited guests in your bag? I'd assume this is only a mild problem, and there only being a few that could truly cause you harm makes the problem seem even less likely. I still have concern though. Essentially, I am considering carrying a tarp on the PCT since I continuously hear that you hardly ever really need a full shelter if any at all, but the idea of rattlesnakes and scorpions is a bit intimidating. Should I consider making a bathtub style floor or a bug shelter of sorts?

Second, what about the floor, pad and sleeping bag? I'd assume if you are doing this carry some form of ground cloth to keep your stuff clean and to protect your pad if you use a inflated one. What is your set up? Also, I would suspect that carrying a down bag could turn into a bit of a mess on any thruhike especially under a much more revealing form of shelter. So would a synthetic bag be best under a tarp?

[lori]

When not hammocking I usually tarp, all over California. A mouse ran across me once.

I use a huge trash bag or mylar blanket as a ground sheet.

Don't set up near obvious critter holes or dead logs. That'll take care of it, unless you're in Yosemite or SEKI where the squirrels and marmots think you're fair game... mostly they sniff around you looking for pack straps or trekking pole handles, I hang the poles off the ground in bushes now after having the buggers chew up the handles. Usually put the pack front side down under my feet.

I have a torso style headnet to keep the mosquitoes off - have yet to use it.

[lori]

Oh, also, I don't do sleeping bags - have quilts that I use instead. The only issue I've had was with ticks, which I check for before turning in, quite religiously.

[bigcranky]

No, never found any critters in my bag under a tarp.

[mega82]

I set up after a long day in maryland...... on a nest of Daddy longlegs. Thousands, and thousands of them.

I hitched to REI and exchanged it for a tent.

[daddytwosticks]

When using an 8X10 siltarp in buggy season, try something like a Meteor bivy.

[Tenderheart]

I use a 8X10 siltarp with a small nylon ground cloth and a sleep pad. Never got wet and never had a problem with any critters. Location, location, location.

litefoot 2000

[Miner]

Look for ants crawling around BEFORE you set up camp. If there are holes in the ground, don't camp next to them as something likely lives in the bottom of it.

I've only found something under my quilt once in the past 5 years of cowboy/tarp camping. In Lassen Volcanic NP, a large frog decided to head for the creek by cutting across my campsite. I woke up in the middle of the night wondering where the slimely rock my hand just touched came from before I woke up enough to realize there were no rocks that large when I setup my camp. After freaking out and pulling my body and quilt to the end of the tarp, I saw a frog about the size of my hand. It was a tense moment as we both tried to stare each other down before the frog eventually continued on his way to the creek 20ft away and I went back to sleep.

[Tinker]

I used to tarp in the Northeast, but only in the fall after the bugs were gone. One night another guy camping nearby woke us up with a shout. A skunk had brushed up against him and woke him up. Luckily for all of us it didn't spray. If critters concern you, just get one of these http://www.alpinlitegear.com/index.p...index&cPath=12 or similar.

[mweinstone]

my megamid has no floor and i dont use a groundcloth. i sleep on my foam pad in my waterproof sleeping bag on the ground directly. bugs dont like me any more than women. i sleep unafected by them.the woman, thats a different story. sleeping without them sucks bad.

[Tinker]

my megamid has no floor and i dont use a groundcloth. i sleep on my foam pad in my waterproof sleeping bag on the ground directly. bugs dont like me any more than women. i sleep unafected by them.the woman, thats a different story. sleeping without them sucks bad.

I think some women are worried about where your head is at, Matty. Joking about man-kissing Lone Wolf probably isn't the best way to find a woman .............Just sayin'.

[general]

once you've added the extra weight of a bug net, bivy, ground cloth, or waterproof sleeping bag, you might as well be carrying a tent. there are two kinds of comfort, hiking comfort and camping comfort, and the two are adversely related. to have one, you gotta give up a little of the other. that being said, i've never had a problem with the occasional critter. critters are cool and you can eat them for breakfast.

[WingedMonkey]

Just put your food under your sleeping bag.

[lori]

once you've added the extra weight of a bug net, bivy, ground cloth, or waterproof sleeping bag, you might as well be carrying a tent. there are two kinds of comfort, hiking comfort and camping comfort, and the two are adversely related.

Let's see... 14 oz tarp, 2 oz ground sheet, 4 oz bugnet, 10 oz homemade goretex bivy. Show me a tent that weighs 30 oz and gives you all kinds of flexibility in pitching in various configurations to avoid condensation.

Yes, Tarptents. They cost about $100 more than my rig and I can't go roofless in fair weather. They also don't give me nearly as much space - I can fit another person plus gear under the tarp.

[Jim Adams]

litefoot2000 says it all...location!
Water must drain away from the tarp, not under.
In 2 tarping thru hikes I only used Deet 2 times each year for bugs...never had any other bug problems.
Never had a problem with critters.

OTOH, I can stand under the open end, cook there if I want to, have company, sleep up to four if need be...SO much more versatile than a tent.
use a 7' x 4' tyvek as a ground cloth, then my mat and then put my feet into the footbox of my bag and pull it over me like a quilt.
Large tyvek lets me put my pack on it beside me to keep it off the ground and to block wind and also I can stand on it in socks or bare feet and not be in the dirt.

I notice that alot of people on here use a rectangular tarp...square (10'x10') is far easier and more versatile in set-up and still only weighs 15oz. in sil.

tarps rock...have fun.

geek

[Tipi Walter]

I've spent many years under tarps and have this to say:
** You will get covered by black carpenter ants on occasion. They like to "hike" at night and can cover a person and won't bite until you turn over on them. One time hundreds of them decided to homestead inside my hiking boots, so in the morning I poured them out.

** Noseeums are bothersome and near impossible to deal with in a tarp.

** Jim Adams says water must drain away from the tarp, but this is often impossible to find on day in and day out backpacking site placement. It's common to be in a torrential deluge and find yourself camping in an inch of ground water. Tarps are terrible for this and you end up squatting inside with everything carefully placed in a high pile atop your pack or sleeping pad. Water will go over the ground cloth. A good tent with a good bathtub floor will keep out the water. My Hillebergs do. (Because they have excellent floors).

** Another unmentioned truth about tarps is "bouncing ground water". In a heavy rain, rain drops will hit the ground next to the outside of the tarp and spray mud and water into and under the perimeter, and if you cinch the tarp right on the ground you end up with condensation problems.

** Finally, you cannot let a shelter dictate where you want to set up camp or dictate site location. A good shelter should work at all locations or wherever you want to set up, i.e. open high elevation bald during a windstorm. WIND is a real hassle in a tarp, I mean a stake-pulling-out-of-the-ground kind of wind. And along with this comes winter camping and SPINDRIFT---My winter tarp camping years were spent waking up covered in spindrift snow. A mesh-less tent solves this problem.

[Smile]

Try one of these: http://www.tarptent.com/

Like a tarp, but with a net and floor, light.

[10-K]

I just returned this morning from an overnighter using a Gatewood Cape, which is a cape that morphs into a shaped, floorless tarp that weighs 11 oz.

Used a piece of tyvek for a groundcloth and took along a goretex Montbell bivy since there was a chance of thunderstorms and I didn't exactly know what I was doing since I had never used a floorless shelter.

As it was 40* I didn't have to deal with bugs or snakes but overall it did have some advantages over a tent - specifically being able to see and cooking. Had it come a hard rain I could have lowered it closer to the ground.

Worked pretty well - it did rain some and I stayed dry as did my stuff..

So, I say all that to say this - check out one of the many shaped tarps that provide 360* protection.....

[Tinker]

Try one of these: http://www.tarptent.com/

Like a tarp, but with a net and floor, light.

Stakes and stake placement are critical for both tarping and tenting (hammocking with a tarp, too ).
One of the things I looked at when shopping for a tent a while back was how few stakes it took to get a taut setup.
So-called "freestanding" tents usually require a stake or two to guy out the vestibule, at minimum, and in the wind they require more.
This http://www.tarptent.com/moment.html
Is my choice for a minimum stake shelter.
In the real world there may be tie off points (trees and bushes) which minimize the amount of stakes you need, but you can't count on them unless you know beforehand the exact site you'll be using.
Tarps are extremely stake dependent because wind not only goes over them as it would on a tent fly, but also goes underneath, causing "bucking" which is how I lost a few stakes and spent a couple of restless, wet nights, both tarping and hammocking.

[lori]

I've spent many years under tarps and have this to say:
** You will get covered by black carpenter ants on occasion. They like to "hike" at night and can cover a person and won't bite until you turn over on them. One time hundreds of them decided to homestead inside my hiking boots, so in the morning I poured them out.

** Noseeums are bothersome and near impossible to deal with in a tarp.

** Jim Adams says water must drain away from the tarp, but this is often impossible to find on day in and day out backpacking site placement. It's common to be in a torrential deluge and find yourself camping in an inch of ground water. Tarps are terrible for this and you end up squatting inside with everything carefully placed in a high pile atop your pack or sleeping pad. Water will go over the ground cloth. A good tent with a good bathtub floor will keep out the water. My Hillebergs do. (Because they have excellent floors).

** Another unmentioned truth about tarps is "bouncing ground water". In a heavy rain, rain drops will hit the ground next to the outside of the tarp and spray mud and water into and under the perimeter, and if you cinch the tarp right on the ground you end up with condensation problems.

** Finally, you cannot let a shelter dictate where you want to set up camp or dictate site location. A good shelter should work at all locations or wherever you want to set up, i.e. open high elevation bald during a windstorm. WIND is a real hassle in a tarp, I mean a stake-pulling-out-of-the-ground kind of wind. And along with this comes winter camping and SPINDRIFT---My winter tarp camping years were spent waking up covered in spindrift snow. A mesh-less tent solves this problem.

He's talking about the PCT - we don't have noseeums.

You should never let a shelter dictate where you camp? You can't just camp anywhere on the PCT, or in the Sierra in general. Site selection is HUGE - it's one of the first things I learned about backpacking... don't set up in the bottoms of canyons if you don't want to be really cold, don't set up on the tops of ridges if you think it's going to storm. No nylon shelter is going to work in every single location. Setting up on a ridge at 13,000 feet in a storm sounds like a recipe for watching your $600 Hilleberg fly away forever.

By your rules? There are no good shelters! Might as well stay home.