2011 CDTA NM Mapbook with GPS Pts

[SunnyWalker]

Anyone use this book on CDT? I understand they have put a lot of work into this and into the trail. One is able to download all the gps points they have in the book (fully gps'ed). Looks like J. Ley has some competition. I like to see this-an official trail, official maps and books. It is confusing at times all the different maps and etc., on the CDT. I wonder if AT or PCT started out like that.

[BrianLe]

It's a puzzlement for me. I've ordered and pulled apart both the CO and NM CDTA map books, and they're beautifully done. At the end of the day, however, I've concluded that I need to carry the Ley maps (too?) anyway, for two reasons.

(1) The CDTA map books only show the "official" CDT trail. No one that I've heard of walks just the official trail, and my hiking partner and I definitely plan on using some of the variations.

(2) The Ley maps have comments on most of the map sheets, and while I'll carry the Wolf guide pages as well (a lot of paper ...), it seems to me that having those in-context map comments will be useful, and likely sometimes more than useful.

I tried to talk Jonathan into adding a UTM grid to his maps, but he's satisfied with the compass rose --- that, and just the beautiful job of printing done by the CDTA makes those map books very attractive. Well, and not having to print the maps out yourself.

I suppose a third potential reason to use Ley is that in printing your own, you can have a say at the size, effective scale of the maps, but in practice when I priced out printing them on 11" x 17" paper, it was too expensive to consider, so the scale isn't much different.

[Spirit Walker]

The mapsets are new, so this is likely to be the first year of actual use. I'll be interested to see comments after people have used them on the trail. My biggest problem with them is that they only show the official route, not the alternates. In some places the official route is very un-hiker friendly - especially in NM. There seems to be no concern for water availability. The Ley maps show alternate routes and they have excellent and helpful comments from other hikers. The Wolf books also give alternate routes that are more hiker friendly than the official route. i.e. in the Gila, Wolf follows the rivers - and passes the Cliff Dwellings - which is better than the very long very dry ridge route in the Spring. Or in the Cebolla, there are wells and springs (which will probably be dry this year) and a nice route that is much better than the long paved roadwalk that is the official route north of Pie Town.

One of the joys and challenges of the CDT is choosing your own route, making your hike unique. As long as some people enjoy that kind of adventure, there will be a place for the Ley maps.

[Mags]

I have no heard of any feedback (yet) on the CDT books..

BUT, I have heard much feedback on the similar set done for the Colorado Trail.

If you want to sick to the 'official' trail, take no alternates and only have a narrow corridor, then they work.

However, where the CT is has less options for alt routes (though the do exist, esp if you take the old Hope Pass route, the Missouri Gulch alt and/or d 14ers) the CDT is all about alt routes.

Missing Temple Pass in the Winds? Ghost Ranch? James Peak? These all all non-official routes that most hikers do.

For good reason: They are beautiful and awesome.

They are also not on the 'official' maps.

[SunnyWalker]

Wow, Mags. I guess I just thought those places were on the official route. Need to do more homework. It's disapointing though. Back to the drawing board.. . . . . . .

[fiddlehead]

One of the joys and challenges of the CDT is choosing your own route, making your hike unique. .

Ditto THAT!
Also, "Officially" they cannot send you some places that may be preferable but not public land. "Official" tends to get politcal.
Some of my best moments on the CDT were in the Jicarilla, and El Malpais, and Tierra Amarilla land grant. I don't know what's official but probably none of them. Also, someone mentioned ghost ranch. Cool stuff.
NM is a challenge, but one that can be justly rewarded. (If you are adventurous)

[Mags]

Wow, Mags. I guess I just thought those places were on the official route. Need to do more homework. It's disapointing though. Back to the drawing board.. . . . . . .

Temple Pass and James Peaks are both avoided due to not being horse accessible (there is a mandate that the trail is open to horses). Think Eagle Creek on the PCT vs the 'official' route.

The Gila Cliff wilderness and the cliff dwellings are avoided on the official route too.

OTOH, the 'official' route in Colorado that MOST thru-hikers don't take is a gnarly, awesome and kick-ass route. I'd do that one if you could!

[SunnyWalker]

Huh, huh, I like your descriptions, Mags. OK, CO official route here I come . . . when I go! In this, I guess I am trying to avoide getting all these tones of maps and all. But in the end, that'll be part of the fun.

[bearcreek]

I am the primary author of the Colorado Trail and CDTA Mapbooks. Contrary to a previous post, the official route passes within 50' of the summit of James Peak at Mile 531.2 of segment 33 on excellent trail. That has been the route for several years and it is clearly shown in the Mapbook, as are many other relocations made to follow the actual path of the divide.

I found the "official trail" in both Colorado and New Mexico to be challenging and awesome. I haven't done all the alternates so I can't comment about them.

I met a thru-hiker last year in Glacier who told me that after he completed the South San Juans he walked roads the rest of the way through Colorado to Wyoming because Colorado's mountains were just too difficult and high. I guess he "hiked his own hike" but I think he missed a lot of great territory. I have no dog in that fight - it was certainly his choice to make.

We will be mapping almost all of Wyoming and 400 miles in Montana next summer and then we will be done with the entire trail. Perhaps we will see some of you out there. If you see us you will most assuredly be on the "official route". (Or we are lost!)

[Mags]

I am the primary author of the Colorado Trail and CDTA Mapbooks. Contrary to a previous post, the official route passes within 50' of the summit of James Peak at Mile 531.2 of segment 33 on excellent trail. That has been the route for several years and it is clearly shown in the Mapbook, as are many other relocations made to follow the actual path of the divide.

)

The official trail may go to James Peak but it DOES not do the entire ridge. My apologies, I should said the James Peak ridge traverse. I erronousely lump it all in one hike as I have done the ridge a few times to Berthoud Pass.



The designated route is s along roads in the valley for a good part of the way.


Official:



The CDT pointing to a road that goes to Berthoud Pass:





Ridge with no trail and above the 'official' trail. The 'official' trail connects again at either end IIRC (the map is at home)





If you take the designated route you are missing a good chunk spectacular ridge walk. Good to take the lower route if you have a horse or run into inclement weather.

[bearcreek]

The official route follows road for a total of 2/10 of a mile after descending from Breckenridge Peak. Look for the new trail leaving to the left after crossing the creek. (Mile 526.6) There is a parking area here. The trail contours below the Loch Lomond Road then crosses it at 527.4 where new tread ascends to tundra above the road and eventually to the summit of James Peak. Following the ridge across Mt. Bancroft would, indeed, be a spectacular hike. OTOH, the trail down from Breckenridge Peak is nothing short of amazing. Trail crews have created an amazing piece of trail with serious retaining walls and flat rocks.

[Mags]

The trail contours below the Loch Lomond Road then crosses it at 527.4 where new tread ascends to tundra above the road and eventually to the summit of James Peak.

I skied that when there was flagging/just completed. Looks like it was moved off the road, but still very close to the road/in wooded areas.

Good bad weather alternate if need be.

Again, there is a reason why many people do the ridge. Do it if you can. The 'official' CDT did make for a good ski tour though when combined with Fall River and nearby roads.... Sheltered, out of the wind and no avalanche danger. I would not want to ski the entire ridge (at least not until the snow pack consolidates until spring!)

[SunnyWalker]

This is great info. Thanks. I am still planning on at least starting with the CDTA maps and book.

[SunnyWalker]

I read that they included gps pts for water. If true, then that is contrary to what one wrote above earlier about water being found easier on Ley's maps.

[SunnyWalker]

I forgot to add that I would find GPS coords., for water very valuable info in NM and etc.

[bearcreek]

However, where the CT is has less options for alt routes (though the do exist, esp if you take the old Hope Pass route, the Missouri Gulch alt and/or d 14ers) the CDT is all about alt routes.

Missing Temple Pass in the Winds? Ghost Ranch? James Peak? These all all non-official routes that most hikers do.

For good reason: They are beautiful and awesome.

They are also not on the 'official' maps.

Actually the official route summits Jame Peak at mile 531.2 Map 61 of the Colorado Mapbook.

[bearcreek]

Chaplain - You need to consider water carefully when you plan your NM hike. Coming out of the Bootheel is not a problem if you use the cache boxes in combination with the farm tanks listed on the maps. A larger issue is the Black Range / Aldo Leopold Wilderness and points north of there. There is water there as well, but you need to plan. I would suggest that you visit CDT-L and find Charlie Thorpe's excellent post in the April, 2011 archive titled "Water Notes from our NM Section Hike". Charlie found a lot of water sources besides those on the maps. The Black Range is a memorable hike in true wilderness right on the top of the divide but it is very dry in places.

Mags - sorry about the double post on James Peak. FWIW, the mapbook shows the ridge - it just doesn't show it as the official route.

[BrianLe]

On the CDTA aka BearCreek aka Jerry Brown map books, water sources are shown (and I think GPS coords given), but not for all the water sources. I'm not positive, but my sense from using it was that the more major and/or more reliable sources were given. In general, I paid no attention as Ley gave pretty much a superset of water sources. Okay, I did pay some attention in NM, thinking that at least the CDTA maps would give me a sense for which sources were more reliable, but if I recall correctly, even then I think I found one source shown on a CDTA map that wasn't flowing.

At the end of the day, I think that in NM in particular you want all the clues you can get, but I don't recall the CDTA maps adding any particular value there. One of the particularly useful things about Ley in that regards is that he shows you alternate routes with notes that give you good options/alternatives for water. Combine that with a current-year Facebook page or some way of keeping up with other Thru's ahead of you, and then you really have something.

[Mags]

Actually the official route summits Jame Peak at mile 531.2 Map 61 of the Colorado Mapbook.

The official trail may go over James but it misses the beautiful ridge walk along and up to James Peak. The official trail is barely off the road that it parallels , is in the valley, misses a few 13ers and is more tame (if easier) to hike than he actual divide.

Good for horses and exposed weather, not as fun for hikers.

http://www.pmags.com/walk-the-divide...-berthoud-pass

I suspect a reason the USFS CDT trail is below is that it is also out of the James Peak Wilderness and a bit more multi-use friendly.

[lsglass]

Chaplain - You need to consider water carefully when you plan your NM hike. Coming out of the Bootheel is not a problem if you use the cache boxes in combination with the farm tanks listed on the maps. A larger issue is the Black Range / Aldo Leopold Wilderness and points north of there. There is water there as well, but you need to plan. I would suggest that you visit CDT-L and find Charlie Thorpe's excellent post in the April, 2011 archive titled "Water Notes from our NM Section Hike". Charlie found a lot of water sources besides those on the maps. The Black Range is a memorable hike in true wilderness right on the top of the divide but it is very dry in places.

Mags - sorry about the double post on James Peak. FWIW, the mapbook shows the ridge - it just doesn't show it as the official route.

Charlie Thorpe's NM water comments are here (May, not April): http://mailman.backcountry.net/piper...ay/004776.html