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  1. #1
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    Default Giardia

    Can anyone point me to any publicly available studies concerning the prevalence of Giardia in the water sources that the AT crosses, particularly in NC, TN and GA?

    I have heard several locals/old timers say that if it runs out of a pipe (a spring presumably) then they don't treat it, others say anything out of GS National Park should be treated, a lot of folks say treat all water that doesn't run from a faucet or hose.

    I would like to know if any real, current science exists to back up claims of Giardia.

    Thanks.

    PapaG

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    it's rare on the AT. i never treat or filter anything and never get sick

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    it's rare on the AT. i never treat or filter anything and never get sick
    Not physically, at least -

    Giardia is a good excuse for taking a few zero days.

    As a section hiker I had to suffer with having it at home.
    Last edited by Tinker; 12-07-2011 at 18:12.
    As I live, declares the Lord God, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn back from his way and live. Ezekiel 33:11

  4. #4

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    Oh, btw: I got it off the AT in the White Mts. along the Pemigewassett river at one of the overused camps there back in the 1980s.
    As I live, declares the Lord God, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn back from his way and live. Ezekiel 33:11

  5. #5
    Registered User mountainman's Avatar
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    I read that a survey done a couple yrs ago of thur hikers showed that about 11% did no water treatment. I rarely treat moving water unless it is around pastures.
    JUST A THOUGHT, I grew up in NC mountains and I drunk wayter wherever I found it. I never lived where I had city treated water. Could that make person least likely to get sick?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainman View Post
    I read that a survey done a couple yrs ago of thur hikers showed that about 11% did no water treatment. I rarely treat moving water unless it is around pastures.
    JUST A THOUGHT, I grew up in NC mountains and I drunk wayter wherever I found it. I never lived where I had city treated water. Could that make person least likely to get sick?
    I don't know whether you can get immune to Giardia. It's not likely. I, as a young boy, used to have a fort in the woods at the edge of a cow pasture. The stream flowed right through the pasture. We didn't know any better so we drank right out of it. I didn't get sick any more frequently or experience any worse symptoms than before or after we used that stream.

    One of the articles I read about Giardia and Cryptosporidia stated that, since the cysts are heavier than water, it's a good idea to get your water from a still pool in a stream rather than from the part of the stream with a current.
    It made sense to me so I try to follow that logic whenever I get water for use untreated (as when boiling water for food or hot drinks - though boiling kills everything).
    For those not treating or treating with chemicals, I think this is a good idea.
    As I live, declares the Lord God, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn back from his way and live. Ezekiel 33:11

  7. #7
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    this is one of those things no one will agree on. its all opinion cause no one is out there testing every stream on a regular basis. best you can do is decide how much risk you're willing to take and drink up. and whos to say who is right? i think most peoples individual judgement is enough to keep them safe. come to think of it, ive never seen a single post on WB regarding someone actually getting crypto or giardia, etc. not saying it hasnt happened, but personally i think its a real danger but at the same time its all much ado about nuthin.
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    Post Problem is

    There is no way to scientifically determine the prevalence of giardia in the thousands of water sources along the A.T. other than to measure each one, and do so on an almost weekly (if not daily) basis. A stream could be 100% safe one hour and crammed with infectious microbes the next -- mainly because bears (and deer and beavers and rodents and rabbits) do NOT use flush toilets in the woods.

    Another problem is that some people will get ghastly ill by drinking water with just ten cysts; others can drink highly contaminated water without any effect. So the question, "Is there giardia?" is not as useful a question as, "Is there enough giardia to make me sick?"

    The only (reasonably) scientific study that can be done is the prevalence of human infections. Here's one such study, listing infections per population by state:

    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5401a2.htm
    (look at Table 1).

    It's impossible to know how many of these infections are the result of drinking contaminated water in the wild -- most likely the thousands of cases in New York City were the result of other transmission processes.

    Which water to treat, and how to do so, is a subject of ongoing and vigorous debate on these boards.

  9. #9
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    I once read a book by a man who sent huge surveys to a large number of AT thru-hikers and he had statistics on everything you can imagine. I don't remember the name of the book, but I do remember this. He asked how people treated their water and the frequency with which they treated their water. In another section of the survey he asked about the frequency of digestive problems. To make a long story short, there was NO correlation because how much or how people treated their water and digestive distress (shall we say). He concluded that almost all giardia-like symptoms were not caused by untreated water, but was caused by eating food (and sharing food) without washing hands.
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    I am of the opinion that you're more likely to get Giardia from eating out of someone's food bag than from drinking the water. Fear the words- "Hey, want some GORP?"

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spokes View Post
    I am of the opinion that you're more likely to get Giardia from eating out of someone's food bag than from drinking the water. Fear the words- "Hey, want some GORP?"
    That would more likely be fecal coliform bacteria.

    Same symptoms.
    As I live, declares the Lord God, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn back from his way and live. Ezekiel 33:11

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinker View Post
    That would more likely be fecal coliform bacteria.

    Same symptoms.
    Perhaps. From the CDC:

    "Giardia is found on surfaces or in soil, food, or water that has been contaminated with feces (poop) from infected humans or animals"

  13. #13

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    LOL! This happened to me at Trail Days. I thru hiker was trying to pass off his huge bag or GORP. Said he was tired of eating it and asked me if I wanted it. I politely declined.
    Some people take the straight and narrow. Others the road less traveled. I just cut through the woods.

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    Registered User Different Socks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creek Dancer View Post
    LOL! This happened to me at Trail Days. I thru hiker was trying to pass off his huge bag or GORP. Said he was tired of eating it and asked me if I wanted it. I politely declined.
    Is it actually possible to contract giardia from something other than a water source?

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    Oh, and for the people that don't wash/clean their hands. It isn't a chunk of feces we are concerned about, it's the tiny almost microscopic flecks that are barely visible if visible at all. Just because you didn't smear it all over your hand like a monkey doesn't mean you didn't get any on it at all.
    "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." George Orwell

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    There is so much bad info about Giardia out there that its tough to sort it out. While the OP was looking for AT data this study done up in the Sierra was the best info I have ever come across on the subject. Unfortunately for me I found it AFTER I picked up Giardia south of Sonora Pass in an area mentioned in the article. Many of the points would also apply to the AT.

    http://www.modbee.com/2010/05/08/115...s-streams.html

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    Along the lines of what others have said, it really is almost impossible to know if a source is safe due to a number of always changing factors. It however is more commonly found in higher concentrations in larger streams/brooks that are fed by lots of smaller tributaries, and immediately following rain. Lakes/ponds/swamps/marshy area tend to have a higher concentration of Giardia than a flowing water source, but this is not always the case. Giardia is spread from infected feces of both humans and animals alike. And after a rain the potential for fecal matter to be washed into a water source is much higher than if there has not been a substantial rain in several days.

    It can also take up to three weeks to actually get sick(1-3 week incubation period), and tracking down where you originally injested the parasite can be very difficult.
    "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." George Orwell

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    I remember hearing about such a study (negative results) in the Sierra Nevada, but nothing like it on the AT.

    It sounds like it's difficult and expensive to find giardia cysts in a natural water source.

    I also remember seeing the hiker survey showing no correlation between water treatment and incidence of illness. I participated in a different survey, but never saw the results of that one. I treated only pasture water and pond water (on several long hikes so far) and didn't get sick.

    At an AT shelter in CT, I saw a very filthy (said he hadn't bathed since PA), very sick (complaining of diarrhea) hiker approach a group of friends and there were handshakes all around. I bet the friends blamed the water if they got sick later on. As many have said, evidence shows that basic hygiene and food safety are at least as important as water treatment in staying healthy on the trail.
    "Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning

  19. #19
    Registered User ChinMusic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garlic08 View Post
    At an AT shelter in CT, I saw a very filthy (said he hadn't bathed since PA), very sick (complaining of diarrhea) hiker approach a group of friends and there were handshakes all around. I bet the friends blamed the water if they got sick later on. As many have said, evidence shows that basic hygiene and food safety are at least as important as water treatment in staying healthy on the trail.
    I prefer the elbow bump and reluctantly shake hands in general. I must have the Howard Hughes gene.
    Fear ridges that are depicted as flat lines on a profile map.

  20. #20
    AT 4000+, LT, FHT, ALT Blissful's Avatar
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    Some SOBOS did get it in Vermont. There's many beaver ponds in the lower part. Watch where the water comes from.

    I did blog on this, but I run on the side of caution and treat every source. I used Aqua mira for 4,000 miles and did not get a water borne illness.







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