bear-proof containers

[Spokes]

Haha, that's good.

Question: As long as you don't camp anywhere on that 5 mile stretch, you don't need to carry a Bear Canister, correct?

Interesting the "new" FS webpage link about the regulation is in narrative form and different in wording than the earlier actual signed order.

The new narrative version doesn't mention anything about that section of trail (and spur) being "closed to all camping" (in the highlighted map of the original order).

Hmmmm........

Original signed order dated February 2, 2012:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_...rdb5351875.pdf

The narrative regulation explanation posted February 8, 2012:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/conf/n...TELPRDB5351877

[Digger'02]

the cables weren't put up properly

no need for woods hole shelter or blood mtn. shelter. much ado about nothing

How were the cables put up incorrectly?

And yes, it looks like merely traveling through, not camping in this section without a canister is fine.

[FatMan]

Interesting the "new" FS webpage link about the regulation is in narrative form and different in wording than the earlier actual signed order.

The new narrative version doesn't mention anything about that section of trail (and spur) being "closed to all camping" (in the highlighted map of the original order).

Hmmmm........

Original signed order dated February 2, 2012:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_...rdb5351875.pdf

The narrative regulation explanation posted February 8, 2012:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/conf/n...TELPRDB5351877

The map they used was the same when they closed that section to all camping last year. I am sure the fact that it reads "trails closed to camping" was just an oversight.

Unfortunately, the first 30 miles of trail in GA gets really trashed during thru-hiker season. Most of you who see thru-hikers up the trail are seeing those that have a clue. But there are hundreds who have no clue that don't make it out of GA. This mass of the clueless leaves food scraps and trash everywhere (oh yeah, some with a clue do to). They think it's no problem to just dump trash, food scraps, and tp blooms a couple of feet from the trail. I've seen some just take their food pots and just throw-out their leftovers like they are swinging a dead cat by the tail. And this not a few hikers, this is dozens, if not a hundred.

Yeah...locals can be a problem at times, but they are no match for the damage done by the thru-hiking clueless. And the clueless season is about to begin. What fun.

[Lone Wolf]

How were the cables put up incorrectly?

the fact that bears are able to get food bags off of them. can't blame the hiker, gotta blame the installers

[Digger'02]

the fact that bears are able to get food bags off of them. can't blame the hiker, gotta blame the installers

So you don't know how the cables were incorrectly installed, but because bears are getting at food, then the people who installed them MUST have done it wrong, cause dagnabbit, there just aren't any other options.

Why so quick to blame the GATC?

These cable systems are bear resistant, not bear proof. The cable systems are in place because too many hikers cannot hang (or protect in your case) their food effectively enough to prevent animals from associating people with food. They are not perfect at keeping bears out of foot, but they have been chosen as a necessary evil.

[Lone Wolf]

next step, steel bear boxes. the only solution

[Gray Blazer]

The bears can already get into the "Bearproof" garbage cans.

[FatMan]

next step, steel bear boxes. the only solution

Sadly, these will simply become steel trash boxes.

[Digger'02]

next step, steel bear boxes. the only solution

Didn't you amen my "personal responsibility" comment? Steel bear-boxes, the biggest trashcan in the woods effectively appeal to the people with the lowest level of personal responsibility. Shelters for people who can't prepare for weather, Privies for people who can't cathole, now bearboxes for people who can't protect their food? where does it end? You know human nature, people will continue to try and find a way to make it easier for them re: more damaging to the A.T. and the experience. Maybe we will never have the wilderness trail that the founders wanted, but we can try to keep as much of that experience alive for as long as we can.

[Lone Wolf]

Didn't you amen my "personal responsibility" comment? Steel bear-boxes, the biggest trashcan in the woods effectively appeal to the people with the lowest level of personal responsibility. Shelters for people who can't prepare for weather, Privies for people who can't cathole, now bearboxes for people who can't protect their food? where does it end? You know human nature, people will continue to try and find a way to make it easier for them re: more damaging to the A.T. and the experience. Maybe we will never have the wilderness trail that the founders wanted, but we can try to keep as much of that experience alive for as long as we can.

okay then tear the shelters down and ban camping between woody gap and neel gap. end of all bear problems in that section. so simple

[Gray Blazer]

Maybe we will never have the wilderness trail that the founders wanted, but we can try to keep as much of that experience alive for as long as we can.

Who is stopping you from going to the edge of a forest with a compass and whatever you need to survive and plowing straight in?

Seriously, I know what you mean.

[Spokes]

The map they used was the same when they closed that section to all camping last year. I am sure the fact that it reads "trails closed to camping" was just an oversight.
......

Personally, I don't want to argue that point with an overzealous Ranger "citing" the words of the order while writing me a citation with a heavy fine.

[Digger'02]

okay then tear the shelters down and ban camping between woody gap and neel gap. end of all bear problems in that section. so simple

I'm sure that was considered, it is Wilderness after all, and there was just a lot of money dumped into reconstructing Blood MT shelter. I prefer the bear canister solution, where I can still camp on blood if I want too.

[Feral Bill]

Maybe we will never have the wilderness trail that the founders wanted, but we can try to keep as much of that experience alive for as long as we can.

The AT was not envisioned as a wilderness trail, more like a linear park with all sorts of facilities and activities along the way. If you want wilderness, the east coast is not the place to look.

[Digger'02]

The AT was not envisioned as a wilderness trail, more like a linear park with all sorts of facilities and activities along the way. If you want wilderness, the east coast is not the place to look.

"The Appalachian Trail as originally conceived is not merely a footpath through the wilderness but a footpath of the wilderness". –BENTON MACKAYE

Your point on true wilderness is well enough taken however and we have discussed this ad nauseum. I fall into the "there is a little true wilderness east side, lets protect it and lets make what we can on the A.T. feel like wilderness" I call this the "illusion of wilderness" camp and again, that 'to the death' argument is probably for another forum.

Appropriate to this conversation is the "Blood Mountain (Federally Designated) Wilderness Area" which is very much east of the Mississippi.

PS I was just kidding about the "to the death" thing, its not THAT important, and its not really feasible since I cannot be killed by conventional weapons.

[Panzer1]

The bear can still take the container away from you, he just can't get into it.

Panzer

[Sly]

One well aimed shot would solve the problem pretty quickly.

How do you line up all the idiot hikers in a row? M&M's?

[Two Speed]

Yeah, makes ya scared to pick up M&M's, don't it.

[RodentWhisperer]

Am I misreading "bear resistant containers" to include Ursacks as acceptable? Nothing in the given article seems to exclude them.

That's probably something to ask the officials.

[swjohnsey]

How do you line up all the idiot hikers in a row? M&M's?

That M&M thing has promise.