Scarp 1 vs Terra Nova Solar Competition 1

[Bojax]

I know these are two completely different types of tents, but I'm looking for a light 3+ season, double-walled tent without too much mesh on the inner and these are the best contenders I can find:

http://www.moontrail.com/terra-nova-solar-competition-1.php

http://www.tarptent.com/scarp1.html

Considering they are almost the same price, I realize the Scarp is probably a better tent. BUT... and its a big but... the Terra Nova is freestanding (and a pound lighter)! Where I camp in the Catskills and Adirondacks, there are not so many wide open spaces to stake out a tent like the Scarp. The ground tends to be rocky and if you find a good flat spot, it might be quite narrow (better for the Terra Nova). Then again, I have never used a non-freestanding tent, so maybe I'm overstressing the importance of that feature?

[Tinker]

They are two different animals. The Terra Nova (from what I've read and can observe) is a three season tent that, in typical European fashion, lacks the ventilation that we demand in the eastern USA.

The Scarp makes no pretensions of being anything other than a four season minimalist tent. The Scarp has only one pole, with no hubs, that spans the tent side to side and can withstand winds due to its aerodynamic shape. The Terra Nova tent looks like it would scoop wind from the side, especially the backside.

I own a Hilleberg Akto, which was probably the inspiration for the Scarp, and it can stand up to a good wind pretty well for a single poled tent, but it requires using at least 8 stakes to make it truly storm worthy.

Freestanding is not necessarily a plus in a four season tent, nor is it a minus, really, but the most important features are windworthiness and snow worthiness (here, these two tents and mine require that you stay with the tent and knock the snow off occasionally or it will make the tent sag in on you and if it's snowing fast and the snow is wet it could break a pole or poles.

The Terra Nova tent essentially has the same pole structure design as the Big Agnes SL2, which, of course is better (structurally) than the pole structure of their solo tents due to the hub and extra poles near the foot.

[Bojax]

Thanks for the reply! Yes, I've read up on all the European hoop tents like the Akto, the Laser Comp, and the wonderfully named Vaude Power Lizard! It seems to me the Scarp beats them because the pitchloc tubes on either end will make it more stable and less apt to flap about in the wind and you have the option of adding two crossing poles on top. That said, I'm not going to be camping in blizzard conditions very often (if ever) and I wonder if the Scarp is overkill for me? The Terra Nova looks lean and mean and weighs a pound less and, in summer, you could just leave the fly off.

[Tinker]

If you're not planning to camp above treeline in a blizzard, the Terra Nova will probably do the job. It may ventilate decently depending on how you pitch it as far as wind direction goes. I like that the Scarp has the ability to adjust the ventilation of the fly, though, and has vents up top in the fly to help evacuate moist air. The Akto could use another scoop (from personal experience). I don't see any fly ventilation on the Terra Nova tent, so a steamy summer thunderstorm could become a sauna inside.

I bought my Akto from Moontrail because they had more pics and a better description than other websites. Going the extra mile gets my money (unless the price is unreasonable).

[Bojax]

Agreed about the fly vents! That is one thing the Terra Nova is certainly lacking... No doubt, the Scarp is an amazing tent. Considering the option to add poles in the winter and change the inner to mesh in the summer, it may just be THE perfect tent! Decisions, decisions...

[Tinker]

Hilleberg came out with a mesh inner for some of their tents a couple of years ago, but the fly doesn't have enough ventilation options to make the most of it. Can't have it both (summer and winter) ways with the same tent (unless it weighs a ton with a lot of windows which have both mesh and fabric).

[Bojax]

Good pics of the Scarp here (including pack size): http://blogpackinglight.wordpress.com/2009/12/30/the-scarp-has-landed/

I must say though, it looks kind of massive for one person! I tend to stealth camp on the side of the trail rather than in a shelter area (with a bunch of boy scouts), and I rarely find a flat spot with enough space to stretch all those guylines. Also, could not be pitched on a rocky ledge or area with thin layer of topsoil...

[Bojax]

Seems like the Scarp might just allow you to have it both ways, if you sprang the $$$ for the inner mesh as well! Or you could just take the inner down entirely and have a capacious tarptent with plenty of venting!

[Tinker]

Seems like the Scarp might just allow you to have it both ways, if you sprang the $$$ for the inner mesh as well! Or you could just take the inner down entirely and have a capacious tarptent with plenty of venting!

I've used only the fly of my Hilleberg (on a tent platform in NH) as shelter for 2 (after bug season). Plenty of space with the liner removed.

Guylines are not a problem. Sometimes you have to place stakes between trees outside the footprint of the tent, but I've never not been able to set up my Akto in a relatively flat spot.

Rocks (especially ledge) can present a problem, but where there's ledge there are often plenty of rocks to stack on a stake set sideways on the ledge as an anchor. Trees and bushes can be used as tieoffs, too.

It's false hope to think (as many do, unfortunately) that just because a tent is freestanding it is automatically better in wind than a non-freestanding tent.
A few folks have found that out the hard way as their tent walls, bowed in by wind, cut their living space in half and threatened to snap their poles.

All tents depend upon a taut outer skin to fend off wind. A solid fabric shelter is dependant upon good anchoring and aerodynamics, not a quick freestanding setup with vertical walls.

[Bojax]

Yes, but have you seen the way the Laser Competitions flap in the wind!? The Akto seems a better design (and the Scarp possibly even better), but at $450 its too rich for me. Even Laser Comp owners admit that the Solar flaps a lot less due to its pole structure.

[Bojax]

What really gets me is how almost all American tents these days have all-mesh inners. Doesn't anyone winter camp in the US? I've been using a North Face tent from the 90s with no mesh. If I'm only going overnight and know for sure its not gonna rain, I leave the fly behind. There is no doubt that its at least 10 degrees warmer inside the tent. I've narrowed it down to these two tents mainly for their relative lack of mesh... The Hubba HP tent had very little mesh, but of course they discontinued it!