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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blissful View Post
    Update on the Scott Lilly investigation - the AT thru hiker who was killed last year.
    Why didn't they make some of this known earlier - like his missing gear? That's how they found the killer of the couple in PA many years ago - the guy had the gear.
    Or offer a reward earlier?
    I feel so bad for the family.
    There was another death in Maine last year of a hiker. The death was determined to be "undetermined". What does that mean? Was he killed to ? Does anyone have any new info on that case ?

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver8 View Post
    It appears that whoever killed Scott took some of his stuff. That fits with other crimes on the A.T. last year - the high school kid's pack being stolen while he went for water in Tennessee/N.C. area comes to mind. I never left behind the thought that the "evil" Papa Smurf is the common thread. Menaced the trail and its people last year, evidently. The investigators pointedly say they are not ruling out other hikers whom they've interviewed who interacted with Scott.

    Is Smurf behind bars now in PA or NY on some other charges? If not, any word of him?
    I have a feeling Papa Smurf did this too ! He was one of the last people to see him alive. And from what I have read about him....... well, I would not be surprised. Has anyone responded to you about his whereabouts ? I did not know Scott, however, you can see from his picture, he was happy just being on the AT. I am so saddened by this crime : (

  3. #43
    Wanna-be hiker trash Sarcasm the elf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedbump View Post
    I have a feeling Papa Smurf did this too ! He was one of the last people to see him alive. And from what I have read about him....... well, I would not be surprised. Has anyone responded to you about his whereabouts ? I did not know Scott, however, you can see from his picture, he was happy just being on the AT. I am so saddened by this crime : (
    It is really unsettling how easily some people on this site have been willing to accuse a stranger of murder based on a few news articles/press releases and some message board gossip. Granted this is the internet, but I have to wonder if you understand just how serious an accusation you making.
    "This sucks and I love it"

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  4. #44

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    I agree with you, speedbump.
    Some people take the straight and narrow. Others the road less traveled. I just cut through the woods.

  5. #45
    BARN OWLS (UK) Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    It's is without question a tragedy... its an investigation, please do not jump to conclusions.
    “You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go...” Dr Seuss
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    My toddler knows the basics of not bearing false witness. For her, it's just "don't make up stories about people". My toddler is more mature than some of the posters here, or at least more responsible.

  7. #47
    Wanna-be hiker trash Sarcasm the elf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    It's is without question a tragedy... its an investigation, please do not jump to conclusions.
    Than you W.O.O. you said it much better than I could have.

    I didn't mean to sound too blunt in my earlier post, but this situation is a very real tragedy involving very real people. I think that those of us on the sidelines should treat it with the respect it deserves.
    "This sucks and I love it"

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  8. #48
    Registered User Driver8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedbump View Post
    I have a feeling Papa Smurf did this too ! He was one of the last people to see him alive. And from what I have read about him....... well, I would not be surprised.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf View Post
    It is really unsettling how easily some people on this site have been willing to accuse a stranger of murder based on a few news articles/press releases and some message board gossip. Granted this is the internet, but I have to wonder if you understand just how serious an accusation you making.
    How, Elf, is "I have a feeling So-and-So did x" the same as an outright accusation that "So-and-so did x"? It's not. Nor is "I never left behind the thought that So-and-So is the common thread."

    I don't mean to be rude or to pull rank, but do you know much about defamation law? It so happens that I have spent a good part of the past year fairly deep in the weeds of it because I am representing someone in his complicated libel lawsuit. It is not at all the same thing, legally or logically, to say "I have this feeling O.J. killed Ron and Nicole" as it is to say, "O.J. killed Ron and Nicole, and it will stand up in court." This, of course, is not the O.J. Simpson case, but it is a subject of considerable interest to the Appalachian Trail community, a nice, innocent would-be through hiker killed, according to investigating authorities, in cold blood and buried in a shallow grave near the trail. To express one's OPINION or FEELING about a matter of public notoriety or interest is one of the great exceptions to defamation liability, especially when the opinions or feelings have significant basis in fact. Here the law recognizes simple human nature.

    If you think people are not going to speculate and opine about such a matter in a discussion board on the Trail, the biggest one I know of, or if you think it is somehow disrespectful of something - not clear what, really, but something, I guess - you are missing the boat on this one, as I see it.

    Moreover, it so happens, according to credible reports and/or to the statements of authorities, that among the last people who interacted with the victim is a man with a significant rap sheet who happened to be, evidently, in the A.T. corridor in the vicinity of a string of property crimes and who was accused of having shafted a merchant in Pennsylvania within a period of a month or two prior to the murder. Are you suggesting it is unreasonable to note the patterns here? To note that some of the victim's things evidently were taken from the crime scene, thus suggesting this homicide may have stemmed from or coincided with a property crime?

    As I said, the investigating authorities in their most recent statement said they had not ruled out fellow hikers of Scott's whom they had sought to interview, among them someone trail-named Papa Smurf. It bears pointing out here that a lot of crimes, sadly a lot of homicides, go unsolved. In many of these, the authorities are confident they know who the perp is, but they lack sufficient evidence to convict him or her beyond a reasonable doubt as our laws require. O.J. himself was acquitted, though most people now are confident he did indeed killed his ex-wife and her friend.

    So judge others harshly if you must because they take an interest in this awful killing and what it suggests about safety on the trail that the murderer has gone unarrested, at least for this crime, and that an evident miscreant - perhaps merely coincidentally, perhaps not - was reporedly (multiple independent reports, at that) menacing more than a few people on trail during the same time frame along the Trail and was among the last people to see the victim and was not seen again on trail, it appears, from the time of this homicide forward. An awful lot of coincidence, seems to me, and I don't find it disrespectful of anything or anyone to say so. I regret that it appears we cannot agree on that.
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  9. #49
    Registered User kayak karl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by driver8 View Post
    i don't mean to be rude or to pull rank,
    lol..............
    I'm so confused, I'm not sure if I lost my horse or found a rope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf View Post
    It is really unsettling how easily some people on this site have been willing to accuse a stranger of murder based on a few news articles/press releases and some message board gossip. Granted this is the internet, but I have to wonder if you understand just how serious an accusation you making.
    It's like beating your head against the wall.
    The trouble I have with campfires are the folks that carry a bottle in one hand and a Bible in the other.
    You never know which one is talking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf View Post
    It is really unsettling how easily some people on this site have been willing to accuse a stranger of murder based on a few news articles/press releases and some message board gossip. Granted this is the internet, but I have to wonder if you understand just how serious an accusation you making.
    Elf,I agree with ya.To me the guy sounds like bad news,no doubt,and nobody would say/could say any different,based on past reports,but folks....lets not have another witch hunt,thats just ignorant.Most are pissed,and thats normal,emotions rage....but lets not forget inocent until proven guilty.It really is a better way.
    I hike for hikin'

  12. #52
    Wanna-be hiker trash Sarcasm the elf's Avatar
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    Driver8, I decided to PM you with my response, since I really don't want to add to this public debate. Long story short, I understand your opinion, but I agree to disagree.

    Speedbump, My first response was poorly worded and I didn't mean for it to sound like a personal attack; if that is how you interpreted it than I apologize. My opinion on the subject is the result of having read many posts on this subject, as it has been discussed and speculated upon within this site for months.
    "This sucks and I love it"

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  13. #53
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    yep,I too feel it has been done to....well a lot.let it go.
    I hike for hikin'

  14. #54

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    Well said Driver8. Opinions, speculation and hunches are what start an investigation and the decision to single out one or two likely candidates for doing the deed. Papa Smurf clearly hasn't done himself any favors with his previous bad behavior according to more than a few people who encountered him. It's merely they're opinion so and to my knowledge no one on this site has said "Yeah, papa smurf did it."
    Hell, this entire site is based on opinions from sleeping bags, tents, kilts, and everything in between so why stop at opinions of the lousy character and behavior of other hikers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Majortrauma View Post
    Well said Driver8. Opinions, speculation and hunches are what start an investigation and the decision to single out one or two likely candidates for doing the deed. Papa Smurf clearly hasn't done himself any favors with his previous bad behavior according to more than a few people who encountered him. It's merely they're opinion so and to my knowledge no one on this site has said "Yeah, papa smurf did it."
    Hell, this entire site is based on opinions from sleeping bags, tents, kilts, and everything in between so why stop at opinions of the lousy character and behavior of other hikers?
    Samantics......
    I hike for hikin'

  16. #56

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    I found Driver8's response to be very well thought-out and articulate. And as for the "pulling rank" remark: completely appropriate since he obviously knows the law in this matter.

    I personally did not meet "Papa Smurf" and my only opinion is that it seems likely that he: 1. Skipped out on his bill; 2. Carried a large machete 3. Took the same trail name as a very generous trail donor 4. Appeared to interact in a rather bizarre manner at times.

    It is not an unlikely conjecture for many to believe that he is a "person of interest" in this case. Simply put: "If it walks like a duck..."

    I get that many on this site are into the whole "all men are brothers; Kumbaya" sort of mentality. I totally respect that. And then there are those of us who aren't. It doesn't make us bad people...just a heck of a lot more realistic.
    Last edited by WIAPilot; 05-19-2012 at 06:44.

  17. #57
    Not committing until I graduate! Sassafras Lass's Avatar
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    I said this on a previous Teardrop thread:

    To whomever is pissed that we're speculating . . . .

    Get over it.

    This is the internet, not a real-life police-based witch hunt. This is the not the equivalent of, "Shoot first and ask questions later."

    We can say whatever we like, we can discuss whatever we like, and if it turns out that this Papa Smurf/Teardrop DID kill poor Mr. Lilly, then guess what? At least we gathered our evidence together to figure out what potentially happened and presented it to the proper authorities (or at least I'm guessing some of us have).

    And if he didn't? He's still an unstable man known to be aggressive, confrontational and unsafe, and people should be aware of that! Geez, didn't ya'll ever hear, "Better safe than sorry"?
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  18. #58

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    I did not realize that my hunch would cause such a debate ! Wow !! Thanks Driver 8 for your input. I did not say he did it, just that I have a feeling, as do many on this post. I am just so very sad by this event. Hopefully the killer will be found, Papa Smurf or not, just found, so his family and his soul can rest. As for Papa Smurf, I believe he has a warrant out for other crimes as well? That is not a witch hunt, that is a fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driver8 View Post
    How, Elf, is "I have a feeling So-and-So did x" the same as an outright accusation that "So-and-so did x"? It's not. Nor is "I never left behind the thought that So-and-So is the common thread."

    I don't mean to be rude or to pull rank, but do you know much about defamation law? It so happens that I have spent a good part of the past year fairly deep in the weeds of it because I am representing someone in his complicated libel lawsuit. It is not at all the same thing, legally or logically, to say "I have this feeling O.J. killed Ron and Nicole" as it is to say, "O.J. killed Ron and Nicole, and it will stand up in court." This, of course, is not the O.J. Simpson case, but it is a subject of considerable interest to the Appalachian Trail community, a nice, innocent would-be through hiker killed, according to investigating authorities, in cold blood and buried in a shallow grave near the trail. To express one's OPINION or FEELING about a matter of public notoriety or interest is one of the great exceptions to defamation liability, especially when the opinions or feelings have significant basis in fact. Here the law recognizes simple human nature.

    If you think people are not going to speculate and opine about such a matter in a discussion board on the Trail, the biggest one I know of, or if you think it is somehow disrespectful of something - not clear what, really, but something, I guess - you are missing the boat on this one, as I see it.

    Moreover, it so happens, according to credible reports and/or to the statements of authorities, that among the last people who interacted with the victim is a man with a significant rap sheet who happened to be, evidently, in the A.T. corridor in the vicinity of a string of property crimes and who was accused of having shafted a merchant in Pennsylvania within a period of a month or two prior to the murder. Are you suggesting it is unreasonable to note the patterns here? To note that some of the victim's things evidently were taken from the crime scene, thus suggesting this homicide may have stemmed from or coincided with a property crime?

    As I said, the investigating authorities in their most recent statement said they had not ruled out fellow hikers of Scott's whom they had sought to interview, among them someone trail-named Papa Smurf. It bears pointing out here that a lot of crimes, sadly a lot of homicides, go unsolved. In many of these, the authorities are confident they know who the perp is, but they lack sufficient evidence to convict him or her beyond a reasonable doubt as our laws require. O.J. himself was acquitted, though most people now are confident he did indeed killed his ex-wife and her friend.

    So judge others harshly if you must because they take an interest in this awful killing and what it suggests about safety on the trail that the murderer has gone unarrested, at least for this crime, and that an evident miscreant - perhaps merely coincidentally, perhaps not - was reporedly (multiple independent reports, at that) menacing more than a few people on trail during the same time frame along the Trail and was among the last people to see the victim and was not seen again on trail, it appears, from the time of this homicide forward. An awful lot of coincidence, seems to me, and I don't find it disrespectful of anything or anyone to say so. I regret that it appears we cannot agree on that.

  19. #59
    BARN OWLS (UK) Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    And I totally dis-agree with the harsh above post from SF. Character Assassination against people who we do not like, or are partially unacceptable on the trail has no place here. I have made mistakes - but cannot be that mean spirited. This diatribe hurts others, hurts friends, and we don't even know if its survival mistake or a murder.
    “You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go...” Dr Seuss
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    It's.............
    I hike for hikin'

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