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  1. #41
    Registered User ChinMusic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winds View Post
    Chinmusic, THAT IS FALSE - there is absolutely NO PILL medication that "becomes" dangerous after its expiration date.

    Chemical properties of pill medications don't morph into something else.
    Winds - What you are posting can kill someone. Your value to this website is a negative one if this is regular for your postings.

    Doxy, and tetracyclines in general, most certainly changes chemical composition to a form that damages the kidney.

    I suggest you educate yourself before endangering others.
    Fear ridges that are depicted as flat lines on a profile map.

  2. #42
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    The CDC and FDA have relabeling standards in place following testing of medications of stockpiles for the US military saving the US taxpayer MILLIONS in restocking fees to replace perfectly FINE medications.

    IF YOU HAVE EVIDENCE to show that Doxycycline, tetracyclines or ANY other antibiotic in pill format goes BAD (or can somehow hurt your liver 18 months from now MORE than it can now) - by all means, list them here. I have read many studies and there is NO current mediations that poses a health risk in pill form after the expiration date EITHER by the active ingredients NOR by its inactive ingredients as well.

    --- Excerpt from a Wall Street Journal article ---
    The program dates to a U.S. effort begun in 1981 to increase military readiness by buying large quantities of drugs and medical devices for the armed forces. Four years later, more than $1 billion of supplies had been stockpiled. The General Accounting Office audited Air Force troop hospitals in Europe and found many supplies at or near expiration. It warned that by the 1990s, more than $100 million would have to be spent yearly on replacements.

    The Air Force Surgeon General's office asked the FDA if it could possibly extend the shelf life of these drugs. The FDA had the equipment for stability testing. And because it had approved the drugs' sale in the first place, it also had manufacturers' data on the testing protocols. Testing for the Air Force began in late 1985. In the first year, 58 medicines from 137 different manufacturing lots were shipped to the FDA from overseas storage, among them penicillin, lidocaine and Lactated Ringers, an intravenous solution for dehydration. After testing, the FDA extended more than 80% of the expired lots, by an average of 33 months.

    In 1992, according to the FDA, more than half of the expired drugs that had been retested in 1985 were still fine. Even now, at least one still is. Such results came as a revelation for Army Col. George Crawford when he took over military oversight of the program in 1997. He is a pharmacist, but "nobody tells you in pharmacy school that shelf life is about marketing, turnover and profits," he says.

    Last edited by Winds; 05-07-2012 at 19:35.

  3. #43
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    A study conducted by the FDA (Food and Drug Administration) requested by the military occurred due to the fact that the military faces tossing out and replacing a large expensive pile of drugs every few years. The study found that 90% of more than 100 different prescription and non-prescription drugs were still safe and effective to use even 15 years after the date of expiration.

  4. #44
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    Ah, I found your tetracycline argument and it came from one of the inactive ingredients...
    It was fully argued and there was NEVER a concise agreement - YET they pulled that ingredient I believe in 1979.

    Most drugs retain their potency for years after they supposedly expire. What’s more, everybody knows this, or ought to; the Wall Street Journal once ran a front-page exposé on the subject.


    But you don’t see anyone pushing for expiration date reform. Why not? No doubt because of the same combination of greed and excessive caution that drives up all healthcare costs: (1) The drug companies potentially could forego billions of dollars in lost sales; (2) the amount individual consumers could save is relatively trifling; and (3) there’s a remote but nonzero chance somebody relying on defunct drugs could die.


    This last belief is based partly on a 1963 study claiming expired tetracycline had caused kidney damage. But that contention has been questioned, and in any case the problematic formulation of tetracycline is no longer made.

  5. #45
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    OK Winds - I DGAD ... post a reliable source for me to read.... Nothing personal - in fact - its kind of well OBVIOUS.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  6. #46
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    Most of the previous 3 posts is NOT my words, look them up. You'll find the associated studies too.

    I wish I could list my address and ask people to MAIL me all their expired prescriptions, but that would be illegal.
    I could save myself a TON of money down the road.

  7. #47
    Registered User ChinMusic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winds View Post

    IF YOU HAVE EVIDENCE to show that Doxycycline, tetracyclines or ANY other antibiotic in pill format goes BAD (or can somehow hurt your liver 18 months from now MORE than it can now) - by all means, list them here.
    I really don't think you care. I will post this for others:

    http://www.drugs.com/tetracycline.html http://www.emedicinehealth.com/drug-...article_em.htm


    Throw away any unused tetracycline when it expires or when it is no longer needed. Do not take this medicine after the expiration date on the label has passed. Expired tetracycline can cause a dangerous syndrome resulting in damage to the kidneys.
    Even a source that considers expiration dates to be BS makes an exception for tetracylines: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...drugs-kill-you

    Word has been gradually filtering out. In the January 2012 Consumer Reports, the magazine’s chief medical adviser, Marvin Lipman, writes, “Except for tetracycline” — and as we’ve seen, even that’s dubious — “expired drugs generally don’t appear to cause harm. But they do become less potent. In particular, throw out any drug more than a year past its expiration date [my emphasis].”
    http://www.ismp.org/consumers/throwAwayMedsSafely.asp

    As time passes, medicines may lose their effectiveness, especially if they are stored in a medicine cabinet in a warm, moist bathroom. In rare cases, outdated medicines could become toxic. For example, taking expired tetracycline (an antibiotic) can cause serious kidney problems.
    http://www.healthcare.com/medication...line-13934.php

    Throw away any unused tetracycline when it expires or when it is no longer needed. Do not take any tetracycline after the expiration date printed on the label. Using expiredtetracycline can cause damage to your kidneys.
    But, I am SURE you are smarter than all these sites, that you are smarter than my instructors. After all, you know better and they are all conspiring against you............
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  8. #48
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    Most of the above isn't accurate at all, such as storage issues.

    Here's the tough part for most ChinMisic: Find a study that shows WHAT specifically is damaging from a medication that can sit on a pharmaceutical shelf for God only knows how long (and then pharmacy shelf) to be dated when you come pick it up - THEN becomes bad after 12 months from the time you purchase it.

    THEN, tell US how this relates AT ALL to Doxycycline? Or how your argument relates to ANY of the 10,000 other PILL medications?

  9. #49
    Registered User ChinMusic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winds View Post
    Most of the above isn't accurate at all....
    Told y'all

    This guy is REAL smart..........
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  10. #50
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    It is likely true that most medications are stable and are fine after the expiration date. But this cannot be true of all. Oxidation and other chemical reactions will occur over time. It seems likely that out of all the chemicals that are used medically, some of the degradation products will be toxic.

    The following paper's abstract states that doxycycline tablets degrade thermally at 25C in 5.26 years.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17988452

  11. #51
    Registered User ChinMusic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowleopard View Post
    It is likely true that most medications are stable and are fine after the expiration date.
    I cannot argue against that. I CAN argue specifically against Doxy and that has been my ONLY point in all this.
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  12. #52
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    Just about done here…

    "Second, medical authorities uniformly say it is safe to take drugs past their expiration date -- no matter how "expired" the drugs purportedly are. Except for possibly the rarest of exceptions, you won't get hurt and you certainly won't get killed. A contested example of a rare exception is a case of renal tubular damage purportedly caused by expired tetracycline (reported by G. W. Frimpter and colleagues in JAMA, 1963;184:111). This outcome (disputed by other scientists) was supposedly caused by a chemical transformation of an ingredient."

    Here’s the 1979 research which addresses
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00127-0087.pdf

    Specifics for tetracyclines in the summary:

    "Old" and degraded tetracyclines have previously been demonstrated to
    have direct toxic effects on the renal proximal tubule, but because of
    changes in manufacturing techniques this is no longer a real problem.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinMusic View Post
    I cannot argue against that. I CAN argue specifically against Doxy and that has been my ONLY point in all this.
    Oh, you didn't add:
    “Doxy, and tetracyclines in general, most certainly changes chemical composition to a form that damages the kidney.” ??? Yes you did, read up.

    Let me restate this VERY clearly here:

    There isn’t ANY known pill form medication whether it be prescription or “over the counter” medication known to cause illness because the said medication is past its expiration date.

    Chinmusic - Got ANY study which shows you can become ILL specifically FROM expired pill medication?

  14. #54
    Registered User ChinMusic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winds View Post
    Chinmusic - Got ANY study which shows you can become ILL specifically FROM expired pill medication?
    This is from Merck, not that you have heard of them. They are good enough for me.

    So it come down to winds vs Merck folks. Place your bets..........

    http://www.merckmanuals.com/professi...acyclines.html

    Expired tetracycline pills can degenerate and, if ingested, cause Fanconi syndrome. Patients should be instructed to discard the drugs when they expire.
    Winds, yes, you ARE done.
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  15. #55
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    You threw up insults, and continue. You're entirely weak.

    I did see this:

    It is possible to acquire this disease later in life. Causes include ingesting expired tetracyclines, and as a side effect of [[teii nofovir]] in cases of preexisting renal impairment.

    However, this is a condition which needs a pre-existing condition to even be considered an issue.
    DRUG companies will make bland statements when it protects a very limited few, but also helps their bottom line.

    So do I consider a drug company to give me the bottom line regarding truth? NO. No one should.

    That's why I look to independently funded studies for leverage towards meaningful answers.

  16. #56
    Registered User ChinMusic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winds View Post
    You threw up insults, and continue. You're entirely weak.
    I "threw up" reputable source after reputable source stating the SAME thing.

    THAT is not good enough for you. You deserve to be insulted.

    The ONLY reason I have taken the time to discredit you is because you were passing along information that could hurt people.
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  17. #57
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    Your 1968 education is lacking. Really tough guys type tough to people they aren’t in front of.

    So, IF you have a preexisting renal impairment, you might not want to take tetracyclines after they’ve expired.

    How’s that?

    IF you don’t have a preexisting renal impairment, you can keep and take all important / expensive medications for at least 15 years as it’s MOST LIKELY just as potent / effective as the day you had someone put an expiration date on it.

  18. #58
    Registered User ChinMusic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winds View Post
    Your 1968 education is lacking. Really tough guys type tough to people they aren’t in front of.
    1979-1983 and I would 100% say ANYTHING I have posted here to your face........100%

    Again, I have quoted multiple reputable sources including Merck.

    That is not enough for you.
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  19. #59

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    I was told by a doctor to not take antibiotics that were persricbed the year before,because he said they can cause lung complications.I really don't remember the name of the med and really don't want to guess.But for an extended period i had to take these,and when i showed improvment was told to stop.next year same type infection(chest) and a i said" i still have some" and not to fill the perscrition,to which I was damn near given a lecture.Good thing i didn't take these,and now I go by expiration dates.

  20. #60
    Registered User Fiddleback's Avatar
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    "All persons are born free and have certain inalienable rights. They include the right to a clean and healthful environment..."

    Article II, Section 3
    The Constitution of the State of Montana

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