Let's talk about winter tents in this thread

[brill540]

Now, I don't really have a specific question here. I've just never done a long hike in winter weather, and the thought of getting caught in a 10degF or below storm is a little scary to me.

I've used my drafty 3-season Eureka tent down into the 20s without problems, but I never was hit with any snow on my short trips. I've also crafted a hammock with an underquilt and such, but it's not set up for anything below 30degF at the moment. I have two options in front of me, I think. Buy some sort of fancy winter weather tent (about a minimum of $250 from what I've seen), or hit the books again and try to upgrade the hammock (much cheaper, but will take a little time).

What do you guys use for winter? And why did you choose it? What would you use instead if you had less money, and what would your dream tent be?

[The Cleaner]

A few days ago I was looking for a solo winter tent and the selection is not much.What little you can find will be costly&heavier than what the average hiker uses.If your're on the AT you can put up a tarp and sorta winterize a shelter.The biggest problem will be wind, which can blow for many days.This will cause some tents to flap a lot and this makes for poor sleeping conditions with noise and wondering if your tent will come apart before morning.I too would like to hear others input on this subject...

[grayfox]

Wow, big subject, where to start?

Well, if you want to keep using your hammock, there are tarps that cover it like an A-frame, right down to the ground and providing some extra shelter for you. The steep walls would shed snow but you would still need a sheltered area from the wind I would think.

If you want to go to ground, there are tents like the Mountain Hardware Direkt 2 tent that would be my choice because it is only about 3lbs, free standing, steep walls--but boy, at $500 I'd wait for that REI 20% coupon for sure! There are some similar tents for less--what you want is a simple design that you can set up and take down with numb hands. You want steep sides that shed snow. I have always thought that the Eureka Alpenlite would be good in winter or the K-2 that has internal guy lines to help keep it from collapsing in strong winds--but they are both more weight than I want to carry anymore. MSR makes some interesting tarp shelters designed for winter but you have to be able to get a stake into the ground and that might be a deal breaker for any sort of tarp or tent.

The problem with all dedicated single wall winter tents is, well besides cost and weight, when the weather turns balmy they become saunas.

My shelter of choice for emergency situation cold weather that might snow and blow is a simple tarp of slightly larger size than I would use in summer so that I can pitch it right to the ground and possibly under me as well, 8X10 to 10X12 depending on if I am alone or not. You want to carry more stakes of several different designs and also more line than a summer set up might use--and most important, you want to practice setting up weather resistant configurations now befor you have do do it while you're shivering and desperate.

The most important part of winter camping is to learn to use the environment as protecton--finding a sheltered spot to set up camp for instance. And in winter you have more options of where to camp because you can often travel on surfaces that are not durable in summer.

These days, if I were winter camping, my shelter of choice would probably be a canvas wall tent with a wood burning stove in it!

grayfox

[Bati]

I'm assuming you're backpacking, not mountaineering or heading out in Maine in January.
We use a one-season bibler I-tent when we know it'll be tough weather out (tall people will say it's too small for two). But when it's snowing and I'm in a 3 season tent, I've had problems with the roof not shedding snow well or the horrible experience of having snow blow in through the mesh in the wall due to a fly that doesn't provide enough coverage. A design that holds up well to winds is important, but being able to pitch it in a storm isn't as big a deal (unless you're actually mountaineering it probably won't happen). But if your tent forms a puddle when it rains, then you're in trouble if it snows.

Good stakes are important; there's nothing quite like watching your free standing tent blow away with your sleeping bag inside. However, the ability to stake successfully will depend on the ground; try and have a way to tie a tent down if you need to do so. Free standing is a big plus as are good shock-corded poles which are much easier to handle while wearing mittens. Make sure you don't have tent with cheap plastic parts that crack when frozen. I bent a tent pole taking down my tent in a blizzard, but apparently this may have been due to the tent design, not the weather (the manufacturer of the three-season tent claimed it happened a lot).

I don't consider it a problem to have a "drafty" tent- ventilation is good, and I often have my gore-tex jacket thrown over my sleeping bag. You'll find that your breathe causes enough condensation to coat the ceiling in ice but this shouldn't prevent you from being able to fold the tent the next morning.

Being able to sit up is a nice touch, but it's not too bad if both occupants can't do so at the same time. My record on the AT was 16 or 18 hours in a tent one day and we survived despite the size. The poor tent design (letting snow in on the bags) could have killed us and was more likely than taking a hit from falling tree.
Things like vestibules are very nice, but what really matters is if the tent can hold up to the wind and snow. You can put your boots in a garbage bag and bring them inside the tent if you need to or brush off the snow that comes in on your clothes. But if your tent collapses or fails to keep you dry, you are in trouble.

[The Cleaner]

Wow, big subject, where to start?

Well, if you want to keep using your hammock, there are tarps that cover it like an A-frame, right down to the ground and providing some extra shelter for you. The steep walls would shed snow but you would still need a sheltered area from the wind I would think.

If you want to go to ground, there are tents like the Mountain Hardware Direkt 2 tent that would be my choice because it is only about 3lbs, free standing, steep walls--but boy, at $500 I'd wait for that REI 20% coupon for sure! There are some similar tents for less--what you want is a simple design that you can set up and take down with numb hands. You want steep sides that shed snow. I have always thought that the Eureka Alpenlite would be good in winter or the K-2 that has internal guy lines to help keep it from collapsing in strong winds--but they are both more weight than I want to carry anymore. MSR makes some interesting tarp shelters designed for winter but you have to be able to get a stake into the ground and that might be a deal breaker for any sort of tarp or tent.

The problem with all dedicated single wall winter tents is, well besides cost and weight, when the weather turns balmy they become saunas.

My shelter of choice for emergency situation cold weather that might snow and blow is a simple tarp of slightly larger size than I would use in summer so that I can pitch it right to the ground and possibly under me as well, 8X10 to 10X12 depending on if I am alone or not. You want to carry more stakes of several different designs and also more line than a summer set up might use--and most important, you want to practice setting up weather resistant configurations now befor you have do do it while you're shivering and desperate.

The most important part of winter camping is to learn to use the environment as protecton--finding a sheltered spot to set up camp for instance. And in winter you have more options of where to camp because you can often travel on surfaces that are not durable in summer.

These days, if I were winter camping, my shelter of choice would probably be a canvas wall tent with a wood burning stove in it!

grayfox

Good answer,I've got a Kelty Noah's Tarp which has extra tie-down straps sewn&reinforced.This makes for many set-up options and holds down flapping.But your camp location helps a lot also-sheltered cove as opposed to high ridgecrest...

[The Cleaner]

Here's one way to stay a bit warmer....540.JPG

[Tipi Walter]

Check out my smugmug fotogs if you want to see some winter tents in action. Basically, most any tent will work for winter backpacking as long as the zippers work and it doesn't have fiberglass poles or is UV degraded. 80% of all the tents I see in the winter are 3 season mesh things like the Hubba or the Seedhouse or the older Sierra Design Clip Flashlite, etc.

To me there are a couple vital components to a good winter tent beyond what most people use. First, square footage. I like to get "snowed-in" on trips and so after years of consideration I want something in the 32-36 sq foot range. Second, I don't want any part of my lofted goose down sleeping bag, especially the foot box, touching the inside canopy of my tent. Small little lightweight tents are bad in this regard. So, it means either a long tent like the MSR Fury or one with vertical head and foot ends like the Hilleberg Keron.

Winter camping will produce in-tent condensation, either water or ice, and tents tend to sag and drape in these conditions. You'll know by how wet your sleeping bag foot gets by morning---a good tent won't touch the bag and if you have a large enough tent you sure do not need the extra protection of a bivy sac.

[The Cleaner]

You pretty much nailed it Tipi.I took my MSR Hubba once when it got down to 18 degrees.Woke up in a frost cave.Several nites of this would get my bag wet.Back in 81' I bought a Eureka 2man Timberline and used it many times in snow&cold.Seemed like it worked well,only problem was almost 7lbs to lug around.Back then I didn't have a problem,I was young&strong.Well now I'm older with a shot back.I guess I'll have to bite the bullet an get a real winter tent.What are some of the tents that would do that costs less than 500$?I've seen many of your pics so you seem to be in the know for winter tent buys.....

[Franco]

Don't confuse winter and mountaineering tents.
The latter can take most weather but as Tipi mentioned you don't want just a shelter but a tent that you can move around in , get changed and have enough space so that your sb does not press against the walls.
A mountaineering tent (most 2 crossed poles freestanding types) is designed to fit in small places with a minimum amount of stakes needed to keep them there, but tend to be very claustrophobic.
Generally a tent that works well in a harsh winter is not going to work well in summer, a bit like clothing...
Franco

[Feral Bill]

If you choose to tent (and tarping is a very viable alternative) go for a larger tent than you would use in summer. A "three season" tent will work fine with proper siting and pegs. As Franco says, a mountaineering tent is a whole different thing.

[leaftye]

I do like a bigger tent in the winter. I currently have a BD Lighthouse. I just got a second set of poles to have the option of double poling. At some point I'd like to add a wood stove that I can use inside the tent. I'd love it if I can make a Backcountry Boiler work for this, although it will require lots of tending unlike bigger stoves. A wood stove might push me towards a new tent, or rig up a vestibule. Pyramid tents seem to be a popular choice. Supposedly a wood stove helps reduce humidity inside the shelter, but don't ask me how.

In any case, you have to know the nature of your hike. If you're pulling a pulk, you can go with a big duck cotton wall tent. If you're hiking and trying to put lots of miles behind you, you might want to stick with a single wall tent. And on and on.

Not sure I'd want a hammock as I think there'd be a bigger risk of damage due to snow and ice falling from trees.

[Franco]

Yes, well if you are thinking about burning wood inside a tent you definitely don't want to use a Lighthouse nor a Backcountryboiler...
Franco

[leaftye]

I didn't say that I would, although I can see how it'd read that way. I mentioned a vestibule. I might be able to rig one with a stove jack that sort of works, but it'll be weird reaching out to feed it, and if a BcB was used with a stove jack (of course), I'd be feeding it non stop. It's not a setup I'd recommend to others though. It's only because I already have a Lighthouse, and would get a BcB for 3 season use. If this winter goes well, I'll probably end up with a winter TiGoat setup, which is already well proven.

[Tipi Walter]

The floorless tipi option (Titanium Goat/Kifaru) is interesting but has some realities---
** There is no floor which can get messy in slush and snow. Plus, in a high wind blizzard there will be spindrift coming inside until enough builds up on the outside perimeter to seal it off. Having no floor is usually a big plus on the tipi-tent forums, but real world reality kicks in after months of winter living and backpacking thru open bald blizzards and 60mph windstorms. You want a shelter with a floor, or at least I do. Spindrift will get into every crack and crevice so a floor helps to keep my living space powder free and my stuff drier.

** Condensation is often a problem and here's a link---so a liner must be used.

http://www.alaskabackcountryhunters....e%20Review.pdf


** These babies aren't light as the Titanium Goat Vertex 6.5 comes in at 8.6 lbs with stove and mandatory inner liner. (And the smaller Vertex 5 is not recommended for stove use).

** Finally, there's the hassle of fire danger on cold days with no snow. The forest then can get super dry and so where do you put yesterday's and this morning's hot coals?? Dig a hole? Smother the ashes with water? Who has extra water that isn't frozen?

I lived in a woodstove heated tipi for years and while not portable, I understand the beauty and function of wood heat during the winter. It makes all the difference. But I was stationary in basecamp mode and not moving every day like I do on my current trips. So, staying warm and toasty in the winter while backpacking is a trade-off---and it comes and is solved by carrying alternatives to a wood heated tipi---An excellent goose down bag rated to -15F or -20F, a decent winter tent with some room, a good sleeping pad like the Exped Downmat, and overkill in-camp clothing like down pants (WM), down parka (FF Icefall) and down booties.

These items become your woodstove.

[lemon b]

Hillenberg for Northern winters.

[Tipi Walter]

Hillenberg for Northern winters.

Exactly.

[Franco]

Always depends on the location and intended purpose.
I got into some serious arguments with some guys that recommend wood burning stoves to everyone for both cooking and keeping warm.
Funny thing is that I made my own wood burning stoves (with chimney...) but never used them in the wild because you need a large shelter, they are a pain to set up/take down if you are moving and of course your shelter will be at outside temp about 10minutes after the stove goes out.
Not ideal above tree line nor if you walk all day and all you want to do is set up shelter and make a hot cup of soup , that is in less than an hour or so...
For campers/hunters they are a great solution for spending long hours inside and feeding the stove is a good way to spend the time ...
I am now waiting to test the Power Pot, that is the pot that has a USB output.
This works (well is meant to...) if you have water in the pot (IE not for cooking dryish stuff)
The idea is that you can get power from it to recharge your gadgets as you melt snow or just have the fire going because you can.
Not ideal if you just want to cook a quick meal but probably a good idea for the tipi/stove guys.
Franco