!!!Attention thru- hikers and anyone else going into GSMNP after Feb 13!!!

[max patch]

wonder how many folks will stealth camp from now on

Probably less since its going to be much easier for a section hiker to get reservations.

No impact to thru hikers.

[ChinMusic]

I'll prob have the permit on my iPhone, just in case the paper copy gets "lost".

[Praha4]

the process will evolve thru trail n' error, unfortunately the Class of 2013 and NPS will have to learn together this year. Look for more changes to come.

[Miner]

So if someone were to show up at Fontana Dam for a few hours a day with a Laptop tethered to a smartphone for internet and a printer (and maybe a small generator), say charging $5 to print out a permit, I wonder how much one could make in March?

[Lone Wolf]

i remember the days you had to call a park ranger from the fontana dam pay phone at the visitors center to get your permit

[soilman]

When I went thru the smokies in 1977 on a hike from Springer to Natural Bridge, VA we had to go into Fontana Village and get a permit from the ranger. He established our itinerary. Some days we had a 6 mile hike, others a 20. I don't see the big deal with the new policy. Change is always hard.

[rickb]

I though I heard this was just walkin'.

That is rich!

I think that this is the one case in a thousand where its really not about the money.

Its about control.

Too bad. Another small freedom flittering away.

[SGT Rock]

I don't see why that couldn't be an option to prove your payment. My guess is that the Smokies haven't thought of it.

If one chooses to not carry a smartphone they could still have the printed paper.

Actually that is one of the annoying things, they did think of this and even told us at the open house that this would be a viable alternative to carrying a paper permit. Then a month before debuting the new system they take that option away.

For a thru-hiker, it really couldn't be simpler. You get online or on the phone 30 days before your approximate park entry date, pay them $20, print out or provide an address for the permit. Stash permit in ziploc for safe keeping. Done.

Or have it sent to you at Fontana Village in a mail drop so it can't get lost or trashed before you get to the park.

I don't own one either and don't intend to buy one (hopefully in my lifetime).

Wouldn't it make more sense for the patrol ranger to have the smart phone already downloaded with the names of the people who called in for permits (and where they propose to stay)? It would take a huge burden off the hikers. For example, I currently don't have a printer (I believe in paperless transactions), so I'll have to try and find a business (Mountain Crossings, NOC, or Fontana Village) that can print a reservation out for me.

Well actually they could just call on their radio to park headquarters and ask if reservation number 123456 is a valid registration if they had a concern. If a ranger is living for a few days at a shot in the backcountry on patrol, then his list he left the ranger station with could be obsolete in a couple of days given how the system works.

I'll prob have the permit on my iPhone, just in case the paper copy gets "lost".

Smart idea. I bet a ranger with some compassion and common sense would give you the benefit of the doubt. Plus, if it were on your phone then there would possibly be an opportunity before entering the park to somehow get that printed again if needed.

the process will evolve thru trail n' error, unfortunately the Class of 2013 and NPS will have to learn together this year. Look for more changes to come.

I totally agree. I think this is going to be a learning curve for the Park too. Many people with fingers in this pie are not hikers and have no idea how these rules will work in the laboratory of real life. Some of this planning was absolutely done in a vacuum and trail and error will hopefully correct some of this.

i remember the days you had to call a park ranger from the fontana dam pay phone at the visitors center to get your permit

I'm sure. And given the new system, that would be a nice option to have back.

[Deacon]

I'm sure I can come up with a paper copy somewhere. The NPS just spent a ton of money on reservation software and another bunch of money beta testing it. You'd think it would be a minor deal to add an application to download the data to an officer supplied smartphone. That part would be very cheap in comparison and would solve the problem of illegible hiker paper permits carried for a couple of weeks. Plus.. they could issue electronic violations right on the spot, call in for emergencies, and even video the illegal stealth campers... lol

Exactly. This is how anyone can now buy Amtrak tickets. You can literally jump on the train, then buy your ticket on your smartphone. The receipt is a barcode you bring up on the smartphone screen from which the Porter scans from his/her smartphone. They then have all the information they need.

But that kind of system would be far too efficient for any government agency to comprehend.

[Alligator]

The ranger could look at your smartphone but his/her carrying around a scanner or a smartphone and expecting it to work at all times is probably not 100%. As well as, hikers phones could go dead as well, charging is limited in the backcountry. Even the radios are going to have dead spots. It's the backcountry, not a diesel/electric powered wifi enabled train with electric outlets on all the seats. The onus is on the hiker to produce the paper.

[Rasty]

I'm sure I can come up with a paper copy somewhere. The NPS just spent a ton of money on reservation software and another bunch of money beta testing it. You'd think it would be a minor deal to add an application to download the data to an officer supplied smartphone. That part would be very cheap in comparison and would solve the problem of illegible hiker paper permits carried for a couple of weeks. Plus.. they could issue electronic violations right on the spot, call in for emergencies, and even video the illegal stealth campers... lol

Exactly. This is how anyone can now buy Amtrak tickets. You can literally jump on the train, then buy your ticket on your smartphone. The receipt is a barcode you bring up on the smartphone screen from which the Porter scans from his/her smartphone. They then have all the information they need.

But that kind of system would be far too efficient for any government agency to comprehend.

Amtrak is essentially the government in the same way the USPS is.

[Lyle]

Certainly glad I'm done with GSMNP.

It was ok, nothing spectacular, so I have no real desire to return anyway.

[Another Kevin]

Exactly. This is how anyone can now buy Amtrak tickets. You can literally jump on the train, then buy your ticket on your smartphone. The receipt is a barcode you bring up on the smartphone screen from which the Porter scans from his/her smartphone. They then have all the information they need.

But that kind of system would be far too efficient for any government agency to comprehend.

You mean, any government agency other than Amtrak?

[max patch]

Exactly. This is how anyone can now buy Amtrak tickets. You can literally jump on the train, then buy your ticket on your smartphone. The receipt is a barcode you bring up on the smartphone screen from which the Porter scans from his/her smartphone. They then have all the information they need.

But that kind of system would be far too efficient for any government agency to comprehend.

I love Amtrak. I really do. But "Amtrak" and "efficiency" are mutually exclusive terms. Thanks for the chuckle.

[Alligator]

Once the reservation system is online, I am not seeing how this is going to be difficult for thru hikers. It should be about as hard as making a hotel reservation and printing a receipt. When you print, printers have the option to print multiple copies. Make 2-3. Keep one safe on your pack and mail yourself one to your last resupply before entering the park. Even if you forget before you leave, you should have 10-20 days to remember to find a printer on the way. Or call home and have someone handle it for you and mail it to you. Most thrus know their start dates weeks and months in advance. I understand the system is not up, but once it is, you'll have plenty of time to get it done.

If all else fails, an ink jet printer can run off of a 120 watt inverter.

[max patch]

Exactly. This is how anyone can now buy Amtrak tickets. You can literally jump on the train, then buy your ticket on your smartphone. The receipt is a barcode you bring up on the smartphone screen from which the Porter scans from his/her smartphone. They then have all the information they need.

But that kind of system would be far too efficient for any government agency to comprehend.

So THATS what we get for our annual $1.5 billion dollar subsidy!

[moytoy]

Exactly. This is how anyone can now buy Amtrak tickets. You can literally jump on the train, then buy your ticket on your smartphone. The receipt is a barcode you bring up on the smartphone screen from which the Porter scans from his/her smartphone. They then have all the information they need.

But that kind of system would be far too efficient for any government agency to comprehend.

I would think that an app for the reservation system could/would be plausible. Amtrak didn't have their app overnight.

[Pedaling Fool]

WHOA!!!! John folks were looking for a sollution I tossed an idea into the fire, didn't think threw gas on it. No one has to carry any technology with them. It was an idea to solve a problem not a mandate. At one time a compass was considered technology, even magic. Just print it out and carry in a baggie if you want. I wasn't looking to start a "techno-war", just trying to help.

I know you were not throwing gas on the fire; I wasn't attacking your suggestion, rather I was just thinking out loud. It's all about the process of evolution that attracts me to this, nothing else. I really don't care about the Smokies and this new system, it's incredibly stupid, but I'm over it.

BTW, speaking of evolution, don't buy stocks in all these SPOT-like devices and various GPS devices. Cell phones will beat them out of the market.


Hiking world is changing, I just like watching the small steps.

[4Bears]

I really don't care about the Smokies and this new system, it's incredibly stupid, but I'm over it......Hiking world is changing, I just like watching the small steps.

John, I must have been over thinking what you said.... ... I agree the new program is stupid or rather under thought for the options available today. Yes the hiking world is changing in some ways for the better, at least lighter, one always has the option to leave the technology at home or mostly in the pack. But I have seen how the next genneration seems have their phones implanted on their thumbs and fingers, could make for an interesting time in the Pennsy rocks. For what it is worth there are times I do enjoy my mp3 player in the evening, but only intrudes/enhances on my experience.
Back on subject I have no problem paying to camp in a national park as I have many times, but from reading the NPS comments it seems its only purpose IMHO is to put more back country guards ... ... er, rangers, to look for violations, I liken it to have police work overtime to work a speed trap. If you look and watch long enough you will find a problem.

[madgoat]

As of 8:30 EST (Feb 13th), this notice is now up on the backcountry camping page at GSMNP's website....

As of February 13, 2013, reservations and permits will be required for all overnight stays in the backcountry.To make reservations, please visit the backcountry reservation website.(This website is scheduled to be available by 5:00 p.m. EST on February 13, 2013.)