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  1. #1
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    Default Rabies a constant reminder in the news...

    It turns out a bite one year can sneek up on you a year or two later... and Doctors and Emergency room people have trouble identifying it. By then it's too late..

    CDC reports two cases of human rabies in 2008……

    Posted on August 15, 2009 | Leave a comment
    Fox

    Earlier this week the CDC reported that two cases of human rabies were confirmed in the United States in 2008; one in California and another in Missouri.
    California: On March 17, 2008, a 16-year-old male who had recently entered the U.S. illegally from Oaxaca, Mexico, was brought to an emergency room in Santa Barbara County, CA. His family said he had complained of a sore throat and was not eating or drinking. He was awake and alert, but agitated and crying. IV fluids were administered and the patient was discharged with a diagnosis of pharyngitis and abdominal pain. Several hours later the patient’s family brought him back to the same hospital complaining of nausea, vomiting, fever, and sore throat, however, he was now uncooperative and was observed to spit frequently. He was again given IV fluids for dehydration and was discharged with a diagnosis of viral pharyngitis, depression, and anorexia. The next day the patient experienced vomiting and shaking and then collapsed. When paramedics arrived, he was not breathing and was unresponsive. Resuscitation efforts were not successful.
    After the patient’s death, the attending physician reevaluated the diagnosis and because of the exhibited hydrophobia and aggressive behavior, as well as the fact that the patient had come to the U.S. from a canine rabies enzootic region in Mexico, he considered the possibility of rabies as a cause of illness and death.
    The Santa Barbara County Public Health Department and health officials in Mexico interviewed family members and friends of the patient regarding potential rabies exposures. It was learned that the patient had received two animal bites in December of 2007. Both occurred in Oaxaca, Mexico. The patient has been bitten by a dog, and in the same month, by a fox. Several others also bitten by the fox received rabies post-exposure prophylaxis (PEP), but the patient did not.
    On March 21, brain tissue obtained from the patient postmortem was determined to be positive for rabies virus antigen. Viral characterization testing further determined the rabies virus variant was most closely related to those found in Mexican free-tailed bats, rather than a canine variant. Of 29 contacts and family members, 20 were deemed to be potentially exposed and received PEP. (Source: CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, July 10, 2009, Vol. 58).
    Missouri: In mid-October of 2008, a 55-year-old man from Texas County was bitten on the ear by a bat. The man captured the bat and kept it for observation but, because it was still alive after a period of three days, he released it and did not seek rabies PEP. However, on November 19, he became ill and sought treatment. Unfortunately, the delay proved fatal and he died on November 30, 2008.
    Tissue submitted to the CDC later confirmed the man had a rabies virus associated with the silver-haired and eastern pipistrelle bats. The man’s death was the first in the state of Missouri due to rabies since 1959



    Hundreds being checked for Rabies.
    Published March 17, 2013
    Associated Press


    Public health agencies in five states are assessing the rabies risk for hundreds of people who may have had close contact with an infected organ donor and four transplant recipients, one of whom died, officials said Saturday.

    About 200 medical workers, relatives and others were assessed for potential exposure in Maryland, where the man who received an infected kidney died, state veterinarian Katherine Feldman said. She said fewer than two dozen were urged to get the rabies vaccine as a preventive measure.
    In Florida, about 90 people were identified as potentially exposed, and three were offered the rabies vaccine as of Friday, state health department spokeswoman Ashley Carr said.
    Illinois Department of Public Health spokeswoman Melaney Arnold said the only potential exposures there were people who worked with the patient or the transplanted organ. She said only the organ recipient is receiving rabies treatment.
    Health officials in Georgia and North Carolina are also involved in the epidemiological investigation prompted by the Maryland man's death from rabies in late February, nearly 18 months after he got the kidney from a donor in Pensacola, Fla. However, officials in those states didn't respond to requests from The Associated Press about the number of people they're assessing.
    Doctors in Florida didn't test the 20-year-old donor for rabies before he died in September 2011. His heart, liver and other kidney went to recipients in Florida, Georgia and Illinois. They started getting the vaccine this month, and none has had rabies symptoms. A rabies expert unconnected to the case, Dr. Rodney Willoughby of Milwaukee, said they have a strong chance of surviving since they haven't shown any symptoms.
    Health officials say the virus can be spread through the infected person's saliva and mucous membranes, but human-to-human transmission is rare. The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta says there has been only one documented instance of transmission by a bite in the U.S.
    Feldman said Friday that the search for potential exposure subjects in Maryland was wrapping up. She said medical workers typically take precautions, and "we don't share saliva with that many people in our day-to-day goings about."
    CDC spokeswoman Melissa Dankel said investigators are still trying to learn how the transplant donor got infected with the raccoon rabies virus that was found in his brain tissue and that of the Maryland man. She said the donor was an outdoorsman who might have been bitten by a wild animal in his native North Carolina before moving to Florida and beginning training as an Air Force aviation mechanic 17 weeks before his death.
    He visited a clinic at the Pensacola Naval Air Station in August 2011 for abdominal pain and vomiting and was transferred to a civilian hospital four days later, said Defense Department spokeswoman Cynthia Smith. He later developed encephalitis, a brain inflammation that can have a host of causes, including rabies, but he wasn't tested for the disease, CDC officials say.
    Smith said the airman died of severe gastroenteritis — inflammation of the stomach and small intestine — complicated by dehydration, electrolyte abnormalities and seizure. The Florida Department of Health said he died of encephalitis of unknown origin.
    Federal rules require organ banks to disclose any known or suspected infectious conditions that might be transmitted by donor organs. CDC officials say they don't know what information was communicated.
    Federal guidelines published last year for evaluating organ donors with encephalitis urge "extreme caution" if the suspected cause is a viral pathogen, such as rabies.
    Dr. Michael Green, a University of Pittsburgh professor who heads the committee that wrote the guidelines, said the guidelines hadn't been published when the Florida patient died. He also said rabies transmission through solid organ transplants is rare. There have been just two other documented instances worldwide — one in Germany and a 2004 U.S. case in which all four recipients died. The CDC says there have been eight documented instances of rabies being transmitted by transplanted corneas.
    "Nonetheless, if asked whether or not I would use organs where concern for rabies was active in the potential donor, I would urge extreme caution before using organs from this person," Green said.
    One of the patients who died in the 2004 case was 18-year-old Joshua Hightower, of Gilmer, Texas, after a kidney transplant. He had kidney problems since he was a child. His mother, Jennifer, said Saturday that if rabies is suspected in a transplant donor, doctors should go ahead and transplant the organs, and then give recipients the rabies vaccine.
    "The word has got to get out there and something's got to change," she said. "These people, like my son, he thought the transplant was going to give him a new life and a new opportunity to move forward, and it killed him — over somebody's negligence and their plain old stupidity, and that's what it is.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/0...#ixzz2No4glrWB
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

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    hmmmm...interesting.

    I found a bat in my bedroom 3 nites ago and everyone in the county government wants me to get vaccinated for rabies. I wasn't gonna bother with it but then I thought probably not bad idea since I am out hiking a lot and who knows when I might run into a real case of rabies. I have medical insurance from bluecross, medicare, and the VA so its nothing cost for me but I read on the internet it costs about $16k for the series of shots.

    if you have med insurance and a good excuse, seems like a good idea for the gentle hiker.

  3. #3
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    I think the internet is wrong on this, and if you did not come in contact with the saliva - you have nothing to fear. The preventative vaccine is $600-$800 and administered to people on a regular basis if they are traveling into back country. The shots are painful and Its in the arm - not in the stomach. The shots are not covered by insurance companies. They are administered by doctors and at occupational health clinics within hospitals.


    On the other hand although one girl has survived rabies thru induced coma, she is still in a bad way, there really isn't a cure for Rabies.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  4. #4

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    The rabies vaccine itself does NOT hurt anymore than a typical injection. I went through them last year after being bit by a dog that was not up to date on his inoculations. What does hurt is rabies immune globulin. This is given just once and provides an immediate dose of rabies antibody unit the recipient can begin to manufacture their own antibody in response to the vaccination. In my case I had to receive 6 injections. They are first administered at the site of the wound and if the full volume cannot be administered there any remaining volume is injected intramuscularly at a distant site, in my case the butt. I can tell you these hurt!!!! The entire regiment was covered by insurance. In my case I could have waited until the dog was out of the isolation period to see if he was positive for rabies. Intellectually I knew the chance that it had rabies was very low, however emotionally I just did not want to wait two weeks not knowing so I opted for the shots. Unless you are at high risk for rabies it is not recommended that you get vaccinated. Once vaccinated a person needs to get a booster every two years.

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    I got it last nite. 7 shots, all in the arms and thighs. the number of shots is governed by your weight. I weigh 180 pounds. didn't hurt any more than any other shot. cost to me- nothing. got it at an emergency room facility. gotta go back for a shot three more times. conclusion, this is no big deal. I'll probably opt for the booster every few years.

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    Way more people die each year from swallowing tooth picks.

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    igne et ferrum est potentas
    "In the beginning, all America was Virginia." -​William Byrd

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    CDC puts the rate at half that. So you chance of dying from rabies is less than 1 in 100,000,000. Oddly enough, the most common wild animal carriers are raccoons and skunks that account for more than half the wild animal cases.

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    While in the Army, we (a Special Forces unit) were required to get the rabies vaccine, but I have never heard of getting a booster. I've inquired about it, but all the medical people I've talked to (doctor, animal control, public health nurse) have also heard nothing. Point: as the medic, I'm the one who vaccinated my team.
    Does anyone have more info about boosters? Thanks.

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    Whats different about us hikers is that we are often in the forest and certainly have a much higher chance of running into a wild animal or sick wild animal- we see them every hike day. so, I don't give the overall statistics for an everyday swath of USA peoples much weight. that the Special Forces get them reinforces the notion that we hikers, the special forces of all recreation, should do the same This also puts a whole different perspective on cowboy camping out west - HYOH!
    Last edited by juma; 08-22-2014 at 15:06.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfdoc View Post
    While in the Army, we (a Special Forces unit) were required to get the rabies vaccine, but I have never heard of getting a booster. I've inquired about it, but all the medical people I've talked to (doctor, animal control, public health nurse) have also heard nothing. Point: as the medic, I'm the one who vaccinated my team.
    Does anyone have more info about boosters? Thanks.
    well take a look at this from the CDC. I don't trust them more than 55percent on a good day but does look like you need a followup if exposed.

    http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/specific_g...cinations.html

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    Thanks for the info. I spoke w/a veterinarian this morning, and she said that one should get a booster but to have the titer levels checked first.
    While many may not be concerned about the possibility of contracting rabies, I know of an individual who died from rabies acquired from a bat. He didn't know that he'd been bitten until too late. I have also encountered rabid animals in the past. From the films (WWll Nazi med experiment) I've seen, it ain't a pretty or easy death, only that it's 99.99999% guaranteed w/o treatment.

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    yerwelcome.

    ya know, I think there is another 18delta on WB that posts in this section sometimes.

  14. #14
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    More people die of Rabies - than Ebola annually.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    It turns out a bite one year can sneek up on you a year or two later... and Doctors and Emergency room people have trouble identifying it. By then it's too late..

    CDC reports two cases of human rabies in 2008……

    Posted on August 15, 2009 | Leave a comment
    Fox

    Earlier this week the CDC reported that two cases of human rabies were confirmed in the United States in 2008; one in California and another in Missouri.
    California: On March 17, 2008, a 16-year-old male who had recently entered the U.S. illegally from Oaxaca, Mexico, was brought to an emergency room in Santa Barbara County, CA. His family said he had complained of a sore throat and was not eating or drinking. He was awake and alert, but agitated and crying. IV fluids were administered and the patient was discharged with a diagnosis of pharyngitis and abdominal pain. Several hours later the patient’s family brought him back to the same hospital complaining of nausea, vomiting, fever, and sore throat, however, he was now uncooperative and was observed to spit frequently. He was again given IV fluids for dehydration and was discharged with a diagnosis of viral pharyngitis, depression, and anorexia. The next day the patient experienced vomiting and shaking and then collapsed. When paramedics arrived, he was not breathing and was unresponsive. Resuscitation efforts were not successful.
    After the patient’s death, the attending physician reevaluated the diagnosis and because of the exhibited hydrophobia and aggressive behavior, as well as the fact that the patient had come to the U.S. from a canine rabies enzootic region in Mexico, he considered the possibility of rabies as a cause of illness and death.
    The Santa Barbara County Public Health Department and health officials in Mexico interviewed family members and friends of the patient regarding potential rabies exposures. It was learned that the patient had received two animal bites in December of 2007. Both occurred in Oaxaca, Mexico. The patient has been bitten by a dog, and in the same month, by a fox. Several others also bitten by the fox received rabies post-exposure prophylaxis (PEP), but the patient did not.
    On March 21, brain tissue obtained from the patient postmortem was determined to be positive for rabies virus antigen. Viral characterization testing further determined the rabies virus variant was most closely related to those found in Mexican free-tailed bats, rather than a canine variant. Of 29 contacts and family members, 20 were deemed to be potentially exposed and received PEP. (Source: CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, July 10, 2009, Vol. 58).
    Missouri: In mid-October of 2008, a 55-year-old man from Texas County was bitten on the ear by a bat. The man captured the bat and kept it for observation but, because it was still alive after a period of three days, he released it and did not seek rabies PEP. However, on November 19, he became ill and sought treatment. Unfortunately, the delay proved fatal and he died on November 30, 2008.
    Tissue submitted to the CDC later confirmed the man had a rabies virus associated with the silver-haired and eastern pipistrelle bats. The man’s death was the first in the state of Missouri due to rabies since 1959



    Hundreds being checked for Rabies.
    Published March 17, 2013
    Associated Press


    Public health agencies in five states are assessing the rabies risk for hundreds of people who may have had close contact with an infected organ donor and four transplant recipients, one of whom died, officials said Saturday.

    About 200 medical workers, relatives and others were assessed for potential exposure in Maryland, where the man who received an infected kidney died, state veterinarian Katherine Feldman said. She said fewer than two dozen were urged to get the rabies vaccine as a preventive measure.
    In Florida, about 90 people were identified as potentially exposed, and three were offered the rabies vaccine as of Friday, state health department spokeswoman Ashley Carr said.
    Illinois Department of Public Health spokeswoman Melaney Arnold said the only potential exposures there were people who worked with the patient or the transplanted organ. She said only the organ recipient is receiving rabies treatment.
    Health officials in Georgia and North Carolina are also involved in the epidemiological investigation prompted by the Maryland man's death from rabies in late February, nearly 18 months after he got the kidney from a donor in Pensacola, Fla. However, officials in those states didn't respond to requests from The Associated Press about the number of people they're assessing.
    Doctors in Florida didn't test the 20-year-old donor for rabies before he died in September 2011. His heart, liver and other kidney went to recipients in Florida, Georgia and Illinois. They started getting the vaccine this month, and none has had rabies symptoms. A rabies expert unconnected to the case, Dr. Rodney Willoughby of Milwaukee, said they have a strong chance of surviving since they haven't shown any symptoms.
    Health officials say the virus can be spread through the infected person's saliva and mucous membranes, but human-to-human transmission is rare. The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta says there has been only one documented instance of transmission by a bite in the U.S.
    Feldman said Friday that the search for potential exposure subjects in Maryland was wrapping up. She said medical workers typically take precautions, and "we don't share saliva with that many people in our day-to-day goings about."
    CDC spokeswoman Melissa Dankel said investigators are still trying to learn how the transplant donor got infected with the raccoon rabies virus that was found in his brain tissue and that of the Maryland man. She said the donor was an outdoorsman who might have been bitten by a wild animal in his native North Carolina before moving to Florida and beginning training as an Air Force aviation mechanic 17 weeks before his death.
    He visited a clinic at the Pensacola Naval Air Station in August 2011 for abdominal pain and vomiting and was transferred to a civilian hospital four days later, said Defense Department spokeswoman Cynthia Smith. He later developed encephalitis, a brain inflammation that can have a host of causes, including rabies, but he wasn't tested for the disease, CDC officials say.
    Smith said the airman died of severe gastroenteritis — inflammation of the stomach and small intestine — complicated by dehydration, electrolyte abnormalities and seizure. The Florida Department of Health said he died of encephalitis of unknown origin.
    Federal rules require organ banks to disclose any known or suspected infectious conditions that might be transmitted by donor organs. CDC officials say they don't know what information was communicated.
    Federal guidelines published last year for evaluating organ donors with encephalitis urge "extreme caution" if the suspected cause is a viral pathogen, such as rabies.
    Dr. Michael Green, a University of Pittsburgh professor who heads the committee that wrote the guidelines, said the guidelines hadn't been published when the Florida patient died. He also said rabies transmission through solid organ transplants is rare. There have been just two other documented instances worldwide — one in Germany and a 2004 U.S. case in which all four recipients died. The CDC says there have been eight documented instances of rabies being transmitted by transplanted corneas.
    "Nonetheless, if asked whether or not I would use organs where concern for rabies was active in the potential donor, I would urge extreme caution before using organs from this person," Green said.
    One of the patients who died in the 2004 case was 18-year-old Joshua Hightower, of Gilmer, Texas, after a kidney transplant. He had kidney problems since he was a child. His mother, Jennifer, said Saturday that if rabies is suspected in a transplant donor, doctors should go ahead and transplant the organs, and then give recipients the rabies vaccine.
    "The word has got to get out there and something's got to change," she said. "These people, like my son, he thought the transplant was going to give him a new life and a new opportunity to move forward, and it killed him — over somebody's negligence and their plain old stupidity, and that's what it is.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/0...#ixzz2No4glrWB
    Woo
    Tried to reply to your message but box full. My jrt is about 18lbs wearing a Ruff wear approach pack in xs.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    I think the internet is wrong on this, and if you did not come in contact with the saliva - you have nothing to fear. The preventative vaccine is $600-$800 and administered to people on a regular basis if they are traveling into back country. The shots are painful and Its in the arm - not in the stomach. The shots are not covered by insurance companies. They are administered by doctors and at occupational health clinics within hospitals.


    On the other hand although one girl has survived rabies thru induced coma, she is still in a bad way, there really isn't a cure for Rabies.
    I had those shots in 2011.IMHO, they aren't painful, less painful per dose than a tetanus shot with its attendant arm soreness. But it's time consuming, and not all hospitals stock the vaccine. In fact, there was a NYT article the other day, not just for rabies but for many vaccines.

    The site of the first series varies. I was bit in the pinkie and there's not much muscle and fat there, so it was six in the tush, three on either side, before the subsequent shots went in the arm.

    Saliva is not the only issue. You can get rabies from close contact to your respiratory system, IOW, through breathing. This can be a problem when spelunking in caves where there are clusters of bats present. Rabies transmission is not limited to saliva, and even with saliva, saliva can get intp cuts you didn't know you had. Also through scratches from the rabid animal.

    Unless the animal can be tested, it is highly recommended that people get treated even if they think they haven't been bitten. Bat bites can be smaller than a mosquito bite, so undetectable. If there's a bat in the house and you can't catch it, off to the doctor.

    Health insurance covers the treatment.

    The girl who survived rabies, Jeanna Giesse, underwent the Milwaukee Protocol. She ended up graduating from college in 2011, six years after being bitten at age 15. There has been some question about which strain of rabies she had, a reason why, in addition to treatment, she may have survived. (Bt may not have survived without treatment.)

    Basically, treat rabies as a fatal illness, which most times it is. Not to be trifled with.

    My friends who entered the Peace Corps, even if placed in a country without a high incidence of rabies, were vaccinated. A man in Massachusetts died in the mid-1980s contracted it in Africa and didn't know he had it until it was too late.

    So, even though contracting rabies from a domestic animal in the United States is rare, better to be aware, and know scratches from an infected animal can also transmit rabies,

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    http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac.../ucm351921.htm

    Also, many stand-alone health centers don't carry the rabies vaccine. I was sent to the ER of a local hospital which did carry it because my PCP didn't want me to have a wait time to get an appt, nor to wait for the vaccine to be sent down to her.

    For any vaccine pre-hiking of more than a week or so in the wild, long walk from towns, etc., I recommend consulting your doctor and explaining how far you will be, as I will do with this and also my ever-problematic teeth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swjohnsey View Post
    CDC puts the rate at half that. So you chance of dying from rabies is less than 1 in 100,000,000. Oddly enough, the most common wild animal carriers are raccoons and skunks that account for more than half the wild animal cases.
    One person too many.

    Better to be safe than sorry

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranky-- View Post
    One person too many.

    Better to be safe than sorry
    Why do people around here constantly promote worry about things that are incredibly unlikely to affect hikers? Oy.

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    Much more likely to have a stumble on the trail and accidentally break something and somehow accidentally end up pregnant in the process. Or contract cancer from walking under high-voltage power lines occasionally. Better to stay home.

    By all means you should never, ever, set foot in any shelter under any circumstance whatsoever...I reckon that's probably the most dangerous thing on the whole trail!

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