How bad is bad.

[ntfd60]

Going to do a multi night trip at the end of June with my teenage kids. We have backpacking experience and sort of have things planned out, but what area do you think will have more ticks to deal with; The Green Mountains in Vermont or Shenandoah NP in Virginia?
I'm new to the Forum and have already read about how bad the ticks are in VA. Most of our trips have been to NY, PA, and Ontario Canada. For us ticks have not been a problem so far, but my son did get a deer tick once that really took hold. He ended up getting treated as a precaution after we removed it (man did it get big). Should we really be that worried? Will long sleeves and long pants do the trick? I am not a big fan of DEET with backpacking gear.

[DaveSail]

There are many posts here about Lyme Disease . Read them . I guess , basically learn the , ( many ) , symptoms ,
and get off the trail quickly if you even THINK you have been infected ! If you have , and get Doxycycline in a
week or so , you can avoid having it for life . Not a fun concept ! David V. Webber

[Odd Man Out]

[QUOTE=ntfd60;1482357... I am not a big fan of DEET with backpacking gear.[/QUOTE]

Check out Picaridin. It is just as effective as DEET but less irritating to skin and damaging to equipment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icaridin

[Mountain Mike]

Permathin treated clothing is probably best defense either bought that way or treated by yourself. Less ticks in VT than VA & a bit cooler this time of year.

[Hot Flash]

There are many posts here about Lyme Disease . Read them . I guess , basically learn the , ( many ) , symptoms ,
and get off the trail quickly if you even THINK you have been infected ! If you have , and get Doxycycline in a
week or so , you can avoid having it for life . Not a fun concept ! David V. Webber

There is no such thing as chronic Lyme disease.

Approximately 10 to 20% of patients treated for Lyme disease with a recommended 2–4 week course of antibiotics will have lingering symptoms of fatigue, pain, or joint and muscle aches. In some cases, these can last for more than 6 months. Although inaccurately called "chronic Lyme disease," it is not. This condition is properly known as "Post-treatment Lyme Disease Syndrome" (PTLDS). Studies have not shown that patients who received prolonged courses of antibiotics do better in the long run than patients treated with placebo.

[stranger]

I would put my money on Vermont, but late June is a bad time of year for ticks in general. Long sleeve top and bottom, treat shoes, gaiters and clothing with Permethrin and I would be very surprised if you ever saw a tick on you

[1azarus]

i would encourage VT as your destination.

[HikerMom58]

Here's a really good article on Ticks... best one I've read so far.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor....html?page=all

[Slo-go'en]

Go to Vermont. The chances of encountering ticks of any kind are significantly less in VT then in SNP, where there is a very significant risk. Of course, hiking in Vermont is significantly harder then SNP, so there is that trade off...

I don't think I'll ever hike between central Virginia and southern New England again, as that is the section with the highest risk of getting Lyme.

[MDSection12]

I hike in the mid-atlantic almost exclusively, and I'm told this is tick ground zero, but I can't remember the last time I had to pull an embedded one off of me... In fact, I'm not positive I ever have and I've been going to the woods for one reason or another for my whole life. I do see them on my socks on a regular basis, but I seem to notice them before they get past that. I suppose I'm just lucky.

[Snowleopard]

The incidence of Lyme disease is much higher in Vermont than in Virginia. Lyme cases in VT have jumped drastically in the last 6 or 7 years. http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/charts...elocality.html
Only deer ticks carry Lyme; the larger dog ticks don't. VA might well have more ticks, but less Lyme. There are other diseases carried by the larger ticks, but they're relatively rare. Still, treat long pants, shirt, socks, gaiters and shoes with permethrin and do a tick check daily and you should be fine in Vermont. Tuck pants into socks or wear gaiters.

There may still be black flies at the end of June and some mosquitoes, so carry head net, DEET and long sleeve shirt.

[Slo-go'en]

Humm, it looks like PA/NJ/NY and CT have the highest incidence of Lyme cases. But these numbers don't show where in each state you have the greatest risk. I know in NH, most of the cases are clustered around the coast, but that might just be because more people live there then other parts of the state.

[FarmerChef]

Humm, it looks like PA/NJ/NY and CT have the highest incidence of Lyme cases. But these numbers don't show where in each state you have the greatest risk. I know in NH, most of the cases are clustered around the coast, but that might just be because more people live there then other parts of the state.

What link are you looking at, Slo? I'd like to see that data too.

Down in VA we have a lot of cases though I understand we're getting toward the bottom of the distribution (at present). My kids and my parents have all had lymes while my wife and I have either been very lucky or just don't know we've got it yet. Nasty, nasty, nasty. Best defense is vigilance. Permethrin can work but don't trust it completely. Still do daily checks.

I vote for Vermont over VA but will tell you that I (so far) prefer VA over VT. Then again, I've hiked almost all of VA and only about 13 miles of VT Not really a fair comparison...

[Snowleopard]

Humm, it looks like PA/NJ/NY and CT have the highest incidence of Lyme cases. But these numbers don't show where in each state you have the greatest risk. I know in NH, most of the cases are clustered around the coast, but that might just be because more people live there then other parts of the state.

All true a few years ago, but Lyme is spreading.
LD_2011_dot_map_550px.jpg
I suspect it's still true that the incidence (cases/100,000 people) is highest in coastal Conn, eastern Mass, and coastal NH, but I may be wrong.
If you look at this link to maps for 2001-2011 and click on year on the left, you can see how it's spreading:
http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/maps/interactiveMaps.html
In 2001, Lyme was very rare in VT or in the NH mountains. It's still rare in the far north of VT and NH, and most of ME. But, as of 2011, VT, NH, and ME have a higher incidence than Conn.
It looks like the places in the northeast to hike to avoid Lyme are the Adirondacks and Maine well away from the coast.

These maps show cases by county, so don't read too much geographic detail into it. The dots are placed randomly within the county of residence.

[rocketsocks]

Here's a really good article on Ticks... best one I've read so far.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor....html?page=all

K, tons of information here in this article, and even more in the comments that follow it. I too was treated with IV Rocephin back in 2005 for possible tick bite, and phantom aches and pains....my docs are all still shacking there heads as tests (western blot) keep coming back negative. I do not have the fevers and chills associated with Lyme infection right now...and the ticks was not on long enough to transfer it's nasty little parcel (24 hours as per article) but at the first sign....I'm gone, right back to the docs.

Thanks so much for posting this, again tons of info here for anyone wanting to further their info base.

[rocketsocks]

All true a few years ago, but Lyme is spreading.
LD_2011_dot_map_550px.jpg
I suspect it's still true that the incidence (cases/100,000 people) is highest in coastal Conn, eastern Mass, and coastal NH, but I may be wrong.
If you look at this link to maps for 2001-2011 and click on year on the left, you can see how it's spreading:
http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/maps/interactiveMaps.html
In 2001, Lyme was very rare in VT or in the NH mountains. It's still rare in the far north of VT and NH, and most of ME. But, as of 2011, VT, NH, and ME have a higher incidence than Conn.
It looks like the places in the northeast to hike to avoid Lyme are the Adirondacks and Maine well away from the coast.

These maps show cases by county, so don't read too much geographic detail into it. The dots are placed randomly within the county of residence.

interesting that through the Rockie Mt. states it is all but non-existant, in particular Colorado...perhaps there is some evolutionary competition between the know deceases that ticks carry in these states ie: rocky mountain spotted fever....or not! just found it interesting.

[kidchill]

I vote VT...Loved the Greens! It was one of my favorite states on the trail...actually, it was my favorite state on the trail.

[Snowleopard]

I vote Vermont also; the weather will be cooler and it's a nice hike.

The Rocky Mt states have so few cases of Lyme that they might have gotten it out of state. New Mexico and Utah have a species of ticks (Ixodes pacificus) that can carry Lyme but the ticks may not be infected with Lyme; the rest of the Rockies don't have those ticks or our deer ticks. The Pacific coast has Ixodes pacificus ticks and some Lyme.

[stranger]

They're is a compelling argument that Lyme has reached Australia, incredibly rare as of right now, but looks like its here...New Zealand is still Lyme free. Amazing how this stuff spreads!

[Trillium]

Here's a really good article on Ticks... best one I've read so far.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor....html?page=all

After reading that, I'm not sure that I want to return to the trail.
Back in March when I went to the Doc for vaccinations I asked for a scrip for meds for Lyme and she wouldn't give me one. sigh...