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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Namtrag View Post
    You cannot get all essential amino acids all vegan....
    I'm not a vegan either but that is incorrect.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by max patch View Post
    ...The best advice I can give about nutrition is to not get any nutrition advice from WB.
    I don't think WB is any worse than most other on-line sources. Here, you find a variety of nutrition opinions, often citing published studies. As Dogwood points out, it's a complex subject and not all the science is settled. People with more qualifications than any of us WBers have strong and fundamental disagreements on some nutritional issues.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookerhiker View Post
    I don't think WB is any worse than most other on-line sources. Here, you find a variety of nutrition opinions, often citing published studies. As Dogwood points out, it's a complex subject and not all the science is settled. People with more qualifications than any of us WBers have strong and fundamental disagreements on some nutritional issues.
    I agree, but I find it helpful to hear what is working for folks and what has not. I abandoned statins, just like WOO... Thankfully my diet changes worked to repair my numbers anyway.

    I like to read how folks are approaching some of the same problems I seem to run into.
    Want a 'Hike Your Own Hike' sticker?... => send me a message <=


    Favorite quote;
    Quote Originally Posted by sailsET View Post
    My guess is that you are terribly lost, and have no idea how to the use the internet.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Namtrag View Post
    You cannot get all essential amino acids all vegan. At least add eggs to your list if you don't want to eat meat.
    Actually, you can get all essential amino acids all vegan. you just have to be careful to vary your proteins. All essential amino acids can be found in plants. They can't all be found in a single plant.
    Time is but the stream I go afishin' in.
    Thoreau

  5. #25
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    I retract my claim....it is doable, but I still believe we are omnivores, so we are evolved to eat all types of food.

  6. #26

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    I posted this on another thread, but it is worth repeating in this one. The video on the link below is worth an hour and 3 minutes of your time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf-tnVZtPgU


    How Bad Science and Big Business Created the Obesity Epidemic

    David Diamond, Ph.D., of the University of South Florida College of Arts and Sciences shares his personal story about his battle with obesity. Diamond shows how he lost weight and reduced his triglycerides by eating red meat, eggs and butter.

  7. #27
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    Personal anecdote: I was into bodybuilding for a while and did a ketosis diet where I ate 6 meals a day, consisting in total of 10 whole eggs, 2 servings of meat, fish, or poultry, 2 protein shakes, 2 cups of green veggies, and a couple of handfuls of nuts. Yes you read that right, 10 eggs per day!

    did blood work about 3 months in, and had triglycerides of 80, and while my total cholesterol was slightly high at 230, but my bad to good ratio was its best ever, and my VLDL was only 10. VLDL cholesterol is the really bad stuff, I think.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Namtrag View Post
    did blood work about 3 months in, and had triglycerides of 80
    You were exercising, and didn't mention carbs or alcohol, so triglycerides of 80 sounds like it was right where one would expect it to be.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by max patch View Post
    You were exercising, and didn't mention carbs or alcohol, so triglycerides of 80 sounds like it was right where one would expect it to be.
    They were much higher on a low fat diet, with the same exercise. My point is that the establishment mantra against eggs would have indicated that my cholesterol would be sky high since I was eating 70 eggs per week.

  10. #30
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    You guys get way more exercise than the average American, My guess is most of these bell shaped curve, "normal boundaries " really do not count for you.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Namtrag View Post
    I retract my claim....it is doable, but I still believe we are omnivores, so we are evolved to eat all types of food.
    Yes we are omnivores, because in nature we cannot get everything we need just on a plant diet. Vegans can do their diets today because of society and the availability of various plants by just going to the grocery store. Those plants are not even "natural", they've all been bred and most of them cannot live in a natural setting; in other words you don't have to worry about tomato plants (or any other cultivated crop) becoming invasive in the natural world. They are much like many of our pets; they are totally dependent on us.

    If society were to fall apart everyone would need to eat some crazy stuff, including meats from animals we would not normally consider eating in order to survive. And insects would be on the menu.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedaling Fool View Post
    Yes we are omnivores, because in nature we cannot get everything we need just on a plant diet. Vegans can do their diets today because of society and the availability of various plants by just going to the grocery store. Those plants are not even "natural", they've all been bred and most of them cannot live in a natural setting; in other words you don't have to worry about tomato plants (or any other cultivated crop) becoming invasive in the natural world. They are much like many of our pets; they are totally dependent on us.

    If society were to fall apart everyone would need to eat some crazy stuff, including meats from animals we would not normally consider eating in order to survive. And insects would be on the menu.
    I've always wanted to try insects.

    I eat 14 eggs a week plus bacon, ham, pepperoni, etc. and a diet high in whole fat dairy including cheese. Every day I cook with Lard or Olive Oil both high in saturated fats. Yet my numbers are considered excellent by my doctor. Again, I'm not saying I'm normative for anyone other than me. But I can say that after I greatly reduced my carbohydrate intake (not my calories, they have stayed consistent for the last 3 years) my incidence of inflammation related problems (headaches, for one) plummeted. I can't remember the last time I took an NSAID for a headache (or aspirin or tylenol for that matter). And the too full feeling I used to have after even moderate meals has been replaced with a more consistent energy, sense of satiety and non-bloated feeling throughout the day. Again, that's just me but it leads me to believe that reducing carbohydrates in favor of fats is a step in the right direction, at least for me. Oh and my wife has experienced the same thing as well.
    2,000 miler. Still keepin' on keepin' on.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerChef View Post
    I've always wanted to try insects.

    I eat 14 eggs a week plus bacon, ham, pepperoni, etc. and a diet high in whole fat dairy including cheese. Every day I cook with Lard or Olive Oil both high in saturated fats. Yet my numbers are considered excellent by my doctor. Again, I'm not saying I'm normative for anyone other than me. But I can say that after I greatly reduced my carbohydrate intake (not my calories, they have stayed consistent for the last 3 years) my incidence of inflammation related problems (headaches, for one) plummeted. I can't remember the last time I took an NSAID for a headache (or aspirin or tylenol for that matter). And the too full feeling I used to have after even moderate meals has been replaced with a more consistent energy, sense of satiety and non-bloated feeling throughout the day. Again, that's just me but it leads me to believe that reducing carbohydrates in favor of fats is a step in the right direction, at least for me. Oh and my wife has experienced the same thing as well.
    Me too. Can't cite the source, but remember reading of two adventurer/scientist types who visited the Inuit for about a year. They switched from a normal Western diet to the native one, mostly whale blubber, fish, and meat.
    When they returned to "civilization" and had their numbers run they had both improved in every metric. Resting blood sugar, blood pressure, cholesterol, bmi, and body weight were all down significantly. No drugs, low carb, regular exercise, high natural fat and protein diet worked wonders.
    Last edited by aficion; 10-23-2013 at 17:20.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerChef View Post
    I've always wanted to try insects.

    I eat 14 eggs a week plus bacon, ham, pepperoni, etc. and a diet high in whole fat dairy including cheese. Every day I cook with Lard or Olive Oil both high in saturated fats. Yet my numbers are considered excellent by my doctor. Again, I'm not saying I'm normative for anyone other than me. But I can say that after I greatly reduced my carbohydrate intake (not my calories, they have stayed consistent for the last 3 years) my incidence of inflammation related problems (headaches, for one) plummeted. I can't remember the last time I took an NSAID for a headache (or aspirin or tylenol for that matter). And the too full feeling I used to have after even moderate meals has been replaced with a more consistent energy, sense of satiety and non-bloated feeling throughout the day. Again, that's just me but it leads me to believe that reducing carbohydrates in favor of fats is a step in the right direction, at least for me. Oh and my wife has experienced the same thing as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by aficion View Post
    Me too. Can't cite the source, but remenber reading of two adventurer/scientist types who visited the Inuit for about a year. They switched from a normal Western diet to the native one, mostly whale blubber, fish, and meat.
    When they returned to "civilization" and had their numbers run they had both improved in every metric. Resting blood sugar, blood pressure, cholesterol, bmi, and body weight were all down significantly. No drugs, low carb, regular exercise, high natural fat and protein diet worked wonders.
    so that makes three of us on this thread with the same experience (4 if you count the Farmers wife).
    Want a 'Hike Your Own Hike' sticker?... => send me a message <=


    Favorite quote;
    Quote Originally Posted by sailsET View Post
    My guess is that you are terribly lost, and have no idea how to the use the internet.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailing_Faith View Post
    so that makes three of us on this thread with the same experience (4 if you count the Farmers wife).
    You may add me to the tally too. I've been eating like a cave man since 1 February, am 47 years old, and feel better now than I can ever remember feeling. I buy 3 dozen eggs a week from a local farmer. Her chickens live on a pasture and eat an organic non soy non GMO feed along with whatever bugs and salad they find on the pasture. My blood numbers blew my doctor away. He can't believe it though and still trying to put me on statins. Says my current good health/blood work is an "anomaly"...

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedaling Fool View Post
    Yes we are omnivores, because in nature we cannot get everything we need just on a plant diet. Vegans can do their diets today because of society and the availability of various plants by just going to the grocery store. Those plants are not even "natural", they've all been bred and most of them cannot live in a natural setting; in other words you don't have to worry about tomato plants (or any other cultivated crop) becoming invasive in the natural world. They are much like many of our pets; they are totally dependent on us.

    If society were to fall apart everyone would need to eat some crazy stuff, including meats from animals we would not normally consider eating in order to survive. And insects would be on the menu.
    Soy is a complete protein and is the only plant that contains all 9 essential amino acids in one place. Otherwise you eat a combination of plants to get complete protein. The only thing you can't get from pants is vitamin B12, which comes from micro-organisms. You can eat fortified plant foods that contain B12 or you can take supplements.

    There is no need to eat any meat for health purposes.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by magneto View Post
    Soy is a complete protein and is the only plant that contains all 9 essential amino acids in one place. Otherwise you eat a combination of plants to get complete protein. The only thing you can't get from pants is vitamin B12, which comes from micro-organisms. You can eat fortified plant foods that contain B12 or you can take supplements.

    There is no need to eat any meat for health purposes.
    Modern soy is corrupted like modern wheat.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by aficion View Post
    Modern soy is corrupted like modern wheat.
    The only good soy is fermented soy. I am convinced soy sped the death of a friend who had breast cancer. She was a Vegetarian and ate a lot of soy right up till the end. I believe cancer cells feast on some of the chemicals in soy and it helped her cancer explode out of control. I strongly recommend folks eating non fermented soy products as meat substitute do further research. It really does appear to be bad news.

    Fermented soy products appear to be viable options for healthy eating though...

    The link below is a starting place for research.

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...ur-health.aspx

  19. #39

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    As is usual, even among nutritional experts, scientists, and MDs, no less the general public, it's so easy to take things out or context, go off on tangents, and over simplify nutrition and health. And, discussing it has become like TRYING to discuss politics or religion. What were we talking about again? I had to go back to PF's original post to find out. Oh yeah, saturated fat NOT ALWAYS being the huge enemy that some have made it out to be.

  20. #40
    Registered User Tuckahoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    As is usual, even among nutritional experts, scientists, and MDs, no less the general public, it's so easy to take things out or context, go off on tangents, and over simplify nutrition and health. And, discussing it has become like TRYING to discuss politics or religion. What were we talking about again? I had to go back to PF's original post to find out. Oh yeah, saturated fat NOT ALWAYS being the huge enemy that some have made it out to be.
    Wow the most logical statement.
    igne et ferrum est potentas
    "In the beginning, all America was Virginia." -​William Byrd

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