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Published by YerbaJon
03-22-2005 |
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#2
By
YerbaJon
on
03-22-2005, 12:43
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Your question as to if this is an article submission highlights the importance of food. As many note, it is the heaviest item in ones pack; It comes up in a variety of forums and does deserve more attention. I think my post did not give enough credit for some of the ideas; I would like to research and reference a few more of the quality food posts made in other whiteblaze forums and integrate them into the above post to make it a more valuable beginning point. Thank you for a great site! The ideas are not mine, just a collection of ideas from everyone in this hiking community.
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#6
By
minnesotasmith
on
03-22-2005, 15:29
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1) Few sources of nonanimal protein contain amino acids in anything like the proportion our bodies use them. Advising people to intentionally avoid mixing sources of protein means not only compelling a person to consume significant meat and other animal products to get all the protein they need (so much for the healthier-than-how-most-Americans-eat Mediterranean diet, being a practicing vegetarian, etc.); it also means wasting almost all the protein in any plant foods a person eats.
2) I try to limit consumption of smoked foods on health issues. Smoking can be thought of as a highly concentrated form of pit barbecuing, where fumes from burning wood densely coat the food being treated. There are many objectionable chemicals in smoke that I would not care to intentionally concentrate onto food on a regular basis. One of them is known as benzpyrene. I heard about this stuff for the first time in a 300-level science major genetics class, back when I was a pre-med. The instructor did research with it, using it to cause skin cancers on mice and rats. He wore level-A garb whenever he was using it, which anyone here (who does not know what level-A environmental protective gear means) would call a "spacesuit". The saying used in his lab about BP was "a milligram equals a melanoma" (a malignant skin cancer, one likely to metastasize throughout the body). Now that everyone here knows about smoked foods, try to find a different preservation method for foods which you are going to eat in quantity (such as every day for ~5 months on a thru-hike). I am agreed that dehydrated or freeze-dried greens will degrade if kept exposed to air long-term. So, don't expose them to the air until desired for cooking. Duh. Buy them in containers that either hold small amounts or are resealable. This is not a complex issue. It is analogous IMO to canned food going bad once opened. All of us know how to avoid wastage when dealing with canned food, correct? Same deal. Sgt. Rock, I honestly don't think that the advice in the post opening this thread is based on correct science or is healthy. |
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#8
By
minnesotasmith
on
03-22-2005, 16:07
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It would have to change 180o its position on mixing protein sources of plant origin and eating smoked food with any frequency. Without that, all that is of value in the post IMO are the links.
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#9
By
SGT Rock
on
03-22-2005, 16:14
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Well collaborate please. I think an article on healthy diet and what you can do to get that while backpacking is a good idea and something we don't have yet.
Also, did you get my message about the alcohol posts getting combined into one article? I think there is some good stuff there I would like to see combined into one instead of two or three posts. Thanks MS. |
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#10
By
YerbaJon
on
03-22-2005, 16:54
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Thank you for the input. This should be a communal effort. I agree to retract the statement that proteins are best absorbed when not combined and that fruit should be eaten alone. It is a controversial topic with evidence on both sides of the argument. I will remove it during my re-post.
As far as MS's comments about smoked food, I never suggested that one smoke their food. I was nearly noting that smoked greens was the most viable method of trail greens. If one is thru-hiking, they will be hard to find affordable dried greens along the trail. If one is sending themselves food at drop-offs then they can not count on dehydrated vegetables remaining fresh at the end of the trail, not to mention the long difficulty in preparing so-many vegetables. As MS rightly notes, one must think about "preservation method for foods which you are going to eat in quantity (such as every day for ~5 months on a thru-hike). Preparing this many vegetables would be a difficult task: Following from the University of Clemson highlight: Dried foods are susceptible to insect contamination and moisture reabsorption and must be properly packaged and stored immediately. First, cool completely. Packaging warm food causes sweating, which could provide enough moisture for mold to grow. Pack foods into clean, dry, insect-proof containers as tightly as possible without crushing.My post was merely offering a more viable alternative; yerbamate. It is already dried for you and the most nutritious, affordable, easy option that I know of. Canned greens are not a viable choice for anyone serious about cal/oz ratios. Finally, there is solid evidence that vegetables are the most important part of the digestive process. The USDA recommended 3-5 serving a day in their 2000 food guidelines. Will you eat that many vegetables on the trail? Would one be wise to try and eat more vegetables? All scientific evidence suggests vegetables are important, yet they are practically non-existent on the trail. And for good reason: it is not easy to dehydrate 3-5 servings a day for a 200 day trip. The preperation itself would be an adventure. Dried fruit is also important, but most have this on their menu. One item I failed to include in the post was information about the importance of whole grains versus suppliments. There is unlimited evidence (some implied in MS's post) that whole grains are way more valuable than suppliments. Items like Quinoa deserve to be discussed; polenta, oats, barley, millet, and rice have already been discussed at this site and I will reference them in my final edit. Quinoa, i will briefly note, is called the "mother-grain" as almonds are the "mother-nut". Most hikers have almonds on their menu, but the Quinoa has been skipped. (see university of minnissota for good over-view: http://www.wholegrain.umn.edu/grains/quinoa.cfm). As we all know: eat whole grains, fruits, and vegetables for a healthy system. I hope the yerbamate and trail pickings provide this often missing foundation of many hikers diets. Calories, of course, are an important equation in food (cal/oz issue addresses this). Protein, of course, is the other. If a hiker does not have enough protein then the body repairs itself by using it's stored protein (i.e, the body eats it's own muscles.). Our arm muscles give protein to feed our legs. Protein is invaluable. One can eat meat and they will be getting a complete protein. But many may not have enough meat on the trail or may be vegetarians. From http://www.bodyforlife2.com/incompletprotein.htm: When eaten in combination at the same meal (or separately throughout the day), your body receives all nine essential amino acids. You can combine the following vegetable proteins to make complete proteins. Sources of Complementary Proteins Grains # Legumes $ Nuts/Seeds Barley #Beans $Sesame seeds Cornmeal# Dried peas $Walnuts Oats # Peanuts $Cashews Buckwheat# Chickpeas $Pumpkin seeds Rice #*Soy products $Other nuts Pasta # Rye # Wheat# Quinoa would be a grain. In some forms Quinoa is a complete protein (the only grain that is a complete protein); unfortunately most Quinoa available in the US has had the outer shell removed, thus it is missing a few of the amino-acids. Therefore, treat most Quinoa as just a super healthy, easy to prepare on the trail, highly adaptable to different flavors, vegetarians dream grain. I have added the * to soy products as all soy products should be avoided. It is accepted scientific evidence that soy contains phytates which prevent omega 3 fatty acids from forming into a complete protein. Protein is too important to hinder on the trail. There was also a post on one of the forums that suggested many of the other problems with soy. Anyone recall the forum? 1) Many hikers fail to eat enough calories on the trail. 2) Many hikers fail to eat enough protein on the trail. 3) Most hikers fail to eat enough vegetables on the trail. The goal of this post and others along the same topic are to raise and consider these issues beforehand. A hiker who fails #1 (calories) will loose weight, those that fail #2 (protein) will be sore most mornings and will not gain as much strength as they might hope, and those that fail #3 will not be getting many nutrients important to maintain optimal health. Those that fail 2-3 of the above issues are the ones we all see pulling off the trail before they ever wanted to. Thanks MS for giving some feedback on this. I know the importance you place on food is one thing that we all have in common. |
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#11
By
minnesotasmith
on
03-22-2005, 17:02
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I posted a bunch of ideas on this thread:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8039 Yes, I saw your request to organize my alcohol posts for suitability as a piece in the Information section. I should have that done within another day. |
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#12
By
minnesotasmith
on
03-22-2005, 17:42
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You'll note that in my comment #26 on the above thread, I commented at some length on what I perceive to be the multiple downsides of eating soy.
Back on vegetables on the Trail: I really don't think that eating vegetables while hiking is that hard to manage to do. Just bring small sealed packages of dehydrated (or freeze-dried) ones along. Several can be bought at grocery stores; the first four items in the "Vegetables" column on my food article (link above) are examples. They can also be ordered from specialty suppliers. Here are direct links to three: http://www.waltonfeed.com/self/deh-veg.html http://www.suttonsbaytrading.com/Fla...ch_Powder.html http://beprepared.com/product.asp?pn=FN%20B100# Note that ethnic food stores (such as Oriental food stores carrying dried seaweed) and health food stores (with greens such as dandelion and comfrey) will have many other offerings for variety. Obviously, people doing mail drops will have the greatest access to such foods. Nothing says that any visitors from home you arrange to meet on the Trail can't bring you a big care package of food you can't generally find in trail towns, either. However, even moderate-sized food stores will have dried parsley, dried onion, dried tomato, etc., and health and Oriental food stores (which carry other food products useful to hikers) are far more common than most people who never look for that type of store think they are. I don't much care for planning to pick wild plants along the way. They are too uncertain, and in the case of mushrooms, do not have all that much food value relative to the risk from misidentification. Too, ones near roads will likely have collected vehicle exhaust pollution. That said, I won't pass up wild onions or berries in season in places far from roads. |
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#13
By
YerbaJon
on
03-22-2005, 18:01
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MS,
Thank you for these ideas. I would like to make a few corrections. Mushrooms are not a vegetable, they are a fungus. As for tomatoes and onions, they are good but do not provide the digestive benefits of greens. The dried parsley you suggested is a good green but it is not viable to eat 3 servings of dried parsley each day and get comparable nutritional benefits of most other greens. I think all of your suggestions should be integrated into a food plan. But they don't get as close to satisfying the body's needs for greens that yerba mate or trail plants could accomplish. |
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#14
By
minnesotasmith
on
03-22-2005, 19:06
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"Mushrooms are not a vegetable, they are a fungus."
Yes, I know. I have published two papers on yeast, which are in the same family. "The dried parsley you suggested is a good green but it is not viable to eat 3 servings of dried parsley each day and get comparable nutritional benefits of most other greens." True, especially given the cyanide in parsley. That's why I provided direct links to sources of dehydrated spinach and broccoli in my last post. |
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#16
By
J.D.
on
03-22-2005, 19:39
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Thank you gentlemen! This thread is VERY interesting and something that
Recently had the opportunity to meet Celtic who finished 12/29/04. He's a skinny guy to start with and lost 12 - 15 pounds. At The Doyle Hotel ( THREE MONTHS LATER !!!), he told me he was ***STILL*** hungry.... My own metabolism is wonderful and I have enjoyed good health and minimal problems. BUT....!!! I like to think that I eat all of the "right stuff". Fortunately, I also L_O_V_E all of the food stuffs that most gag over... This "Yerba" stuff... You can smoke it...?!?!?!? Do you roll it up or use a bong... Keep this thread going - it is MOST interesting - THANKS! |
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#17
By
J.D.
on
03-22-2005, 19:45
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[QUOTE=YerbaJon]
I have added the * to soy products as all soy products should be avoided. It is accepted scientific evidence that soy contains phytates which prevent omega 3 fatty acids from forming into a complete protein. Protein is too important to hinder on the trail. There was also a post on one of the forums that suggested many of the other problems with soy. Anyone recall the forum?[QUOTE=Yerbajon] What...!??!?! Never - Ever - have I heard that soy was bad for you...??? |
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#18
By
minnesotasmith
on
03-23-2005, 07:46
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"Never - Ever - have I heard that soy was bad for you...???"
This is something on which YerbaJon and I agree, that soy in quantity is a bad idea for humans, especially for males. Here is what I posted about soy on that thread about trail food I started and gave the link to; I guess you haven't gotten around to looking at it yet. "26) Soybeans have several chemicals that make me question the wisdom of eating soy and its products when they can be avoided. First, soy that has not been severely processed (miso, tofu) has some antinutrient compounds that inhibit utilization during digestion of some vitamins and minerals; ordinary cooking or drying does not deactivate these compounds in soy as it does related ones in beans and green peas. Even then, there appear to be analogs to estrogens (certain hormones mainly found in women) in them that will survive such processing. These E.A.s may protect against circulatory system disorders in women to some extent, but there is increasing evidence that these are undesirable for males of any age to consume. Even soybean oil is likely to have drawbacks. Soy oil is normally partially hydrogenated (made more saturated) to slow down the rate it goes rancid; look on the back of any inexpensive cookie package or baking mixes to check this. However, this produces a chemical not found in nature for which there is no reason to consume it, it being significantly less healthy than the original. For all these reasons, I try to avoid soy nuts, textured vegetable protein, soy milk, and above all soy oil (whether as the pure oil or as an ingredient in purchased mixed foods), just occasionally having a cup of miso soup or using soy sauce in cooking, which add only a tiny bit of soy to my diet." |
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