Methyl Hydrate as stove fuel?

[offshegoes]

I am Canadian--no denatured alcohol

I've just started building some homemade stoves and happened to have a couple of things of gasline antifreeze at the house to test them with....but my supply ran out and I went in search of denatured alcohol...nobody knows what the heck I'm talking about at wal mart or hardware stores. After I did some hunting around on the net it seems that in Canada denatured alc. is only used in hospitals and stuff like that here.....Does anyone know if this is correct? So what are my alternatives? I saw something called methyl hydrate at the hardware store....is this safe? What else burns well? I know I can use the gasline antifreeze but it's a lot of packaging. Thanks for your help.

[Ann]

Below is a list of SYNONYMS for denatured or wood alcohol et al:

http://ccinfoweb.ccohs.ca/cheminfo/A...BER=23&-search

Essentially it is simply alcohol that is made poisinous with additives so that it will not be fit for human consumption.


EDIT:
PS...if I'm not mistaken denatured alcohol is usually called methylated spirits in Europe and other parts of the world...so I don't know if that might help as well.

[chris]

I'm not sure if they allow it in Canada (they don't in California), but relatively pure grain alcohol (like Everclear) should burn just as efficiently as denatured alcohol (which is just pure alcohol with some additives). Look for it in liquor stores. You can usually find 90-95% pure stuff. An added bonus is that you can mix it with a bit of gatorade and have afternoon cocktails.

[offshegoes]

I just remembered there was also something called mineral spirits....would this be under the denatured alcohol category as well?

[SGT Rock]

NO!

[DebW]

Originally posted by Ann
Below is a list of SYNONYMS for denatured or wood alcohol et al:

http://ccinfoweb.ccohs.ca/cheminfo/A...BER=23&-search

Essentially it is simply alcohol that is made poisinous with additives so that it will not be fit for human consumption.


EDIT:
PS...if I'm not mistaken denatured alcohol is usually called methylated spirits in Europe and other parts of the world...so I don't know if that might help as well.

Denatured alcohol is ethyl alcohol or grain alcohol (the drinkable stuff) with poisonous additives. Here are the synonmys:

http://ccinfoweb.ccohs.ca/cheminfo/Action.lasso

Methanol or wood alcohol is never drinkable (except by very drunken individuals who end up blind from trying). Methylated spirits is probably methanol. Both ethanol and methanol can be burned in stoves.

[Hog On Ice]

I have heard that in Canada look for a product called "fondue fuel" - this is denatured alcohol plus a blue colouring. Methylated spirits is another common name for denatured alcohol but I don't know if that is a Canadian term or a British term for it.

[Ann]

DebW...
Unless I'm having a truly blonde day here I believe we are saying the SAME thing....

BTW...
DebW wrote:

Both ethanol and methanol can be burned in stoves

As well as other common names, that are alcohol based..see the Synonyms...(that's why I provided the link).

I use a shellac thinner (advertised that way on the can) in my Trangia...I just buy whatever is cheaper, most readily available and is alcohol.

[offshegoes]

what was the big no for?

[Ann]

Minerals spirits are commonly used in dry cleaning and are normally a petroleum distillate. It is a type of hydrocarbon solvent. Translation, not the same as alcohol and not for use in the stove.

Try asking around for methylated spirits, that might be a more commonly known name for denatured alcohol in Canada...good luck and let us know!!!

[offshegoes]

since methyl hydrate was in the list of synonyms and I've heard of others using it I'm going to go with that one....thanks for all the help

[Keith]

I did a quick google search and found:

"OTTAWA - Health Canada is advising Canadians about the potential danger of poisoning from the ingestion of methyl hydrate, a liquid used in gas-line antifreeze and windshield washer fluid. Methyl hydrate is also used as fuel for fondue sets."

and

"Methyl Hydrate is available in your local hardware store. It is used as antifreeze, as a fuel for camp stoves, and as a solvent for shellac. It is what keeps shellac in the bottle from hardening, and it will also dissolve shellac instantly."

so I believe that Methyl Hydrate and denatured alcohol are the same thing.

[Hammock Hanger]

I used Heet--methyl alcohol. It was really easy to find at most Walmart, 7/11 or convinence stores. Not to mention it comes in nice 12 oz bottles, just enough for 5 days. (I only cook one meal aday and tea.) It burns hot and fairly clean. The red bottle uses iso-alcohol and burns dirty, leaves a black residue. Hammock Hanger

[RagingHampster]

I am finding that Methanol is the easiest form of fuel to get and in the correct quantities. However, it also seeps right through your skin, and your liver turns it to formaldehyde, which in turn pretty much poisons/pickles you. The other alcohols (ethanol & isopropanol) don't do this. Isopropanol is out for be because of the soot, and everclear is a littole too expensive for me (lol). Denatured is ethanol mixed with a tid-bit of methanol so people won't drink it. I can only find it at hard-ware stores, and thats it. Methanol is everywhere though. For now I will continue using methanol, but I really don't feel like needing a liver transplant before I'm 30. How do others feel on this?

[Hammock Hanger]

How does one get pickled from the use ... drinking (highly unlikely), fume vapors? skin absorbtion, wouldn't it take a lot? I like using this fuel so am interested in side effects. HH

[Ann]

I would also like to hear the answer to Raging Hampsters
claim; the amount, and time it takes for "pickling" to occur.

I realize that Methanol is not 100% safe but my understanding is that the amount of additive is quite small. I believe even use of White Gas in Gas stoves is not 100% safe, and in the long run the use of Methanol in stove applications perhaps has a better saftey record considering all potential dangers.

PS..Sorry Lone Wolf..I know in another thread you mentioned you owned stock in some oil co's...I do also own a Svea123 for cold weather use so I am a consumer of gas for a stove but only in the colder months.

[walkerat99]

If what RagingHamster says is true, then I would assume the answer is simply do not let it contact the skin. I am glad that I use a dish detergent bottle to carry and store my fuel. All I do is squirt about 1/2 oz into the stove and light it. My skin does not come into contact with the fuel at all. If someone is worried about it, they my try use my method works for me. Just a thought.

Ed

[SGT Rock]

Alcohol rarely touches my akin, and if it does it is in trace amounts and dries off from evaporation quickly, not like petrol distilates.

[RagingHampster]

I was reading up on thru-hikers using methanol, I forget where, maybe TrailJournals or PCTHiker. I heard from a few places that 12oz of methanol contains enough formaldehyde in it to make a person blind if absorbed all at once (whether drinkning it or through skin contact). Either way it is quickly absorbed through the skin and into your capellaries.

Of course this could be completely false, and apply only to the imbibing of the product. Either way it makes me nervous when told about this. I guess the use of denatured alcohol which has very little methanol in it is highly encouraged. I'll look for the articles I saw tomorrow.

The pickeling statement was a joke by the way lol.

[Uncle Wayne]

This past weekend I used Methanol for the first time in my "Pepsi can Photon Stove." We were doing a day hike in the Sipsey Wilderness. Temperaure was 39 degrees and no wind. I had brought the stove and methanol to heat water for "hot chocolate" (as we call it) when we stopped for lunch. 28 ounces of stream water, in a one liter titanium pot with lid, a whisperlite aluminum windscreen with 1/4 holes around the bottom surrounding the tuna can base and stove. I used 1.5 ounces of fuel and the water boiled in almost exactly 9.5 minutes. The stove was sitting inside a tuna can with as much of the side metal removed as possible but still enough mass there to support the pot and water. I started timing when I set the stove on the base and stopped when there was noticable steam coming out by the lid. When I lifted the lid the water was actually a "rolling boil" so it had been a "bubbling boil" several seconds before. The stove burned for about 2 minutes longer although I didn't time it as exact as I did the "boil" time.

I may never duplicate this again but was very pleased with the time it took to boil the water under those conditions. The fuel is the only difference in the above set up that I have not tried before. I've used denatured alcohol or Heet but have not gotten the same "time to boil" with those fuels and the same amount of water as I did using methanol. In fact the denatured alcohol I've used produces some type of residue that actually sticks the bottom of my pot to the top of the tuna can base. The methanol and Heet do not produce any residue. I don't know about the health risk involved with Methanol. I do know it gave me better results than in any previous try with other fuel. YMMV.