WhiteBlaze Pages 2024
A Complete Appalachian Trail Guidebook.
AVAILABLE NOW. $4 for interactive PDF(smartphone version)
Read more here WhiteBlaze Pages Store

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27
  1. #1
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-29-2007
    Location
    High up in an old tree
    Posts
    14,444
    Journal Entries
    19
    Images
    17

    Default Understanding char cloth.

    In a repeat episode of one of the survival shows, I fell off my chair when Bear or one of the others tried to use a magnifying glass to start a fire ( without a char cloth) 45 minutes later - well they got a smoke... It can't be that hard! Today I came across old relatives plastic magnify glass and a poor one at that... maybe 3x and four inches across and for the Gram weenies - 2oz. Outside its sunny at 39 degrees and light wind and the sun is less than 40 degrees from the horizon (low). I grabbed and held the char cloth and in seconds it was smoking and that's important - This means (DO NOT STOP) 20 seconds later I had fire and burning fingers.


    You can put the tin on an alcohol burner, you do not need a grill.




    This guy stopped and it took longer ... but you get the idea



    Even a better video started fire from a compass



    I hope you enjoyed that, it simply a good skill to know, if you get a chance practice. In camp you can amaze your friends with your new skill.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  2. #2

    Default

    I love this kind of stuff. I haven't made char cloth yet but I am pretty reliable with a bowdrill and have been successfull with a hand drill a few times.(Mullien on White Cedar)

  3. #3
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-29-2007
    Location
    High up in an old tree
    Posts
    14,444
    Journal Entries
    19
    Images
    17

    Default

    My understanding about this is the friction match did not catch fire here in the US till about the 1850's, even though the inventions were go back hundreds of years for chemical matches. In New England you would store your Flint, steel, and Char patches in the bottom of the cup, to light the candle.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  4. #4
    Registered User Tuckahoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-26-2004
    Location
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Age
    53
    Posts
    2,320
    Images
    52

    Default

    At work I get my forge fired up starting the fire with flint and steel and a little char cloth. I actually find it relaxing.
    igne et ferrum est potentas
    "In the beginning, all America was Virginia." -​William Byrd

  5. #5
    Registered User shelterbuilder's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-29-2007
    Location
    Reading, Pa.
    Age
    68
    Posts
    1,844
    Images
    18

    Default

    For those who don't know, char cloth is made through a process called "pyrolysis" - heating a burnable material above its ignition-point in the absence of oxygen. (Charcoal is made the same way.) By driving off the flamable gasses, you are left with "char", which is very good at capturing sparks. Char ignites very easily, but does not flame - it simply smolders.Cloth is not the only thing that can be charred - any burnable material will work. In fact, there are folks who use COTTON rope (no synthetics), cotton balls, even jute cordage. Over the holiday, I made myself a fire piston (think "diesel engine" without the diesel fuel - add a small piece of char at the bottom of the piston, quickly compress the gas within the piston to raise the internal temperature above the char's ignition-point, withdraw the char - and you have an ember that you can use to start a fire). So now, I need to make some char. Then I can see if the piston is good...or if I screwed it up!
    Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning how to dance in the rain!

  6. #6
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-29-2007
    Location
    High up in an old tree
    Posts
    14,444
    Journal Entries
    19
    Images
    17

    Default

    Hey great! now for a little thread drift do you have a picture of your fire piston?




    My over-all recommendation is to add some char cloth to all your vasaline covered cotton ball starters!
    Last edited by Wise Old Owl; 01-06-2013 at 21:20.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  7. #7
    Registered User SassyWindsor's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-19-2007
    Location
    Knightsbridge, London UK
    Posts
    969

    Default

    Speaking in terms of fire starter.
    Char-cloth can be made easily, fairly easy to carry. But if cotton balls and petrol jelly is available I'd go with it. Packed into a small container (film can/medicine bottle) it's pretty hard to beat and moisture will not harm it like the char-cloth. Discarded wax cardboard is another, however bulkier alternative.

  8. #8
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-29-2007
    Location
    High up in an old tree
    Posts
    14,444
    Journal Entries
    19
    Images
    17

    Default

    And what is wrong with having both in a small container?
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  9. #9
    Registered User shelterbuilder's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-29-2007
    Location
    Reading, Pa.
    Age
    68
    Posts
    1,844
    Images
    18

    Default

    For use with a fire-steel, a little vaseline won't hurt the char, but I don't know about using "dirty" char with a fire piston. (Although my piston's o-rings are lubed with vaseline....)My piston is all "stock" items from Lowe's (sorry, no pictures): a 4 1/2" length of specialty copper tubing (one end is closed down at the factory), with a 4 1/2" long 1/2" plunger that's hollowed out a bit on the business-end and has a drawer pull screwed into the other end for a handle. The business end is sealed with o-rings; getting the seals right is the tricky part (bad seal = no compression).
    Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning how to dance in the rain!

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    07-30-2009
    Location
    Woodbridge, Virginia
    Age
    64
    Posts
    2,343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    And what is wrong with having both in a small container?
    Why bother carrying the less effective (but admittedly cool) char cloth if you've got cotton balls and vaseline?

  11. #11
    Registered User Hikes in Rain's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-14-2005
    Location
    Georgia Mountains
    Age
    69
    Posts
    2,196
    Images
    23

    Default

    Because it's fun, and as you pointed out, cool. Don't really need another reason!

  12. #12
    Registered User Tuckahoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-26-2004
    Location
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Age
    53
    Posts
    2,320
    Images
    52

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Jones View Post
    Why bother carrying the less effective (but admittedly cool) char cloth if you've got cotton balls and vaseline?
    When i hike, I just carry matches or a ligher as a just in case because I otherwise dont plan on having fires. Because I actually use flint and steel along with char cloth several times a day, everyday, I feel right at home with it and think of it as being pretty damn effective.
    igne et ferrum est potentas
    "In the beginning, all America was Virginia." -​William Byrd

  13. #13
    Registered User SassyWindsor's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-19-2007
    Location
    Knightsbridge, London UK
    Posts
    969

    Default

    If you want to be "COOL" bring a bow-drill and impress all how fast you can start a fire. You might even get cold by the time the fire gets built.

  14. #14
    Registered User Drybones's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-13-2010
    Location
    Gadsden, AL
    Age
    75
    Posts
    3,187

    Default

    I've been looking for a small magnifying glass like we used as kids and finally found them at a flee market...$2.00...had a nice little plastic case it folded into for protection, it took about 10 seconds to have a piece of newspaper smoking.

  15. #15
    Registered User shelterbuilder's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-29-2007
    Location
    Reading, Pa.
    Age
    68
    Posts
    1,844
    Images
    18

    Default

    Well, I tried making some char out of cotton balls yesterday...during my annual inspection of the new Rausch Gap Shelter! By the time that I got to the shelter, someone already had a small fire going, so I threw my char-making can on a corner of the fire and waited. Eventually, the can stopped smoking, and I pulled it out and let it cool off. The resulting "char-balls" took fire from a lighter, but I couldn't get my fire piston to work (I think that the seals in the piston were bad). And then (to add insult to injury)...I LEFT THE DARN PISTON ON THE TABLE IN FRONT OF THE SHELTER, SO I'LL HAVE TO BUILD ANOTHER ONE! I'll have to be more careful with the tolerances this time.

    I also tried some vaseline-impregnated-cotton balls (first time for these, too) - man, did they ever work....
    Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning how to dance in the rain!

  16. #16
    The Local Johnny Reb
    Join Date
    03-29-2007
    Location
    Mississippi
    Age
    40
    Posts
    462
    Images
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Jones View Post
    Why bother carrying the less effective (but admittedly cool) char cloth if you've got cotton balls and vaseline?
    why not? just for the sheer fact of pulling it out and saying i saw this on Dual Survival! hahahahaha
    -Jason

  17. #17
    Registered User shelterbuilder's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-29-2007
    Location
    Reading, Pa.
    Age
    68
    Posts
    1,844
    Images
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MyName1sMud View Post
    why not? just for the sheer fact of pulling it out and saying i saw this on Dual Survival! hahahahaha
    Actually, the cotton balls will work better for making fire in wet conditions, since this fire-starter will actually burn (with a flame). Char is more of an "ember-keeper" - it doesn't really burn with a flame, but smolders, and has to be added to tinder (dried grass, very small twigs, etc) and fanned in order to ignite a flame.
    Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning how to dance in the rain!

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    07-30-2009
    Location
    Woodbridge, Virginia
    Age
    64
    Posts
    2,343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shelterbuilder View Post
    Actually, the cotton balls will work better for making fire in wet conditions, since this fire-starter will actually burn (with a flame). Char is more of an "ember-keeper" - it doesn't really burn with a flame, but smolders, and has to be added to tinder (dried grass, very small twigs, etc) and fanned in order to ignite a flame.
    Which was my original point. I've made and used char cloth, but other than the 'cool' factor (I watch very little tv, so I've never seen any of the survival shows), it just doesn't work as well as cotton and vaseline. Heck, fritos work better, as does a bit of toilet paper with a dab of hand sanitizer.

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    04-28-2004
    Location
    New Brunswick
    Age
    61
    Posts
    11,116

    Default

    Char is easier to light with an emergency firestarter like a 9v battery and steelwool, or a magnifying lens, or a spark from flint and steel or one of those strikers. Once going, something with oil or fat in it like vaseline and cotton or a beeswax candle or birch bark or corn chips can take over. There are different stages of firestarting and depending on the ways and means some materials and methods do more than just one stage. It goes something like 1. ignition, 2. some sort of light and self insulating tinder like char, or something with a lower ignition temperature like alcohol or butane; 3. some sort of kindling that is more plentiful but burns well enough to increase the rate of combustion; 4. the ultimate fuel you are trying to light which is most cheap or plentiful or easiest to control but doesn't necessarily have to burn all that well as long as it holds its own.

    In summary...
    Ignition
    Tinder
    Kindling
    Fuel

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    04-28-2004
    Location
    New Brunswick
    Age
    61
    Posts
    11,116

    Default

    With something like a lighter or a match, you can go straight to vaseline and cotton, or birch bark, or a beeswax candle and wood shavings if trying to start wood. If your ignition device is a striker or a magnifying lens or something like that, char would be very handy to have to help get the vaseline and cotton or whatever lit.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
++ New Posts ++

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •