Modified Sierra Zip Stove

[zelph]

I've modified my zip stove to eliminate the double wall feature. I believe the heating of the fan forced air to be insignificant in the performance of the stove. The volume of forced air being the major contributing factor for the stoves ability to consume wood and provide high heat at a very fast rate.

I will perform tests using my old stove side by side with the modified version as time and weather permits.

First photo shows stove apart before cutting begins

Second photo shows cutting complete

Third photo shows stove re-assembled

Fourth photo shows stove in a bare bones state without upper rim attached. Stove has sufficient strength to be used without it in my opinion. Reduces weight by 18 grams/0.58 oz.

Fifth photo shows cutting being made with a Dremel rotory cutting tool. Blade being used is a diamond impregnated cutoff disc.

The stoves weight before modification was 326.2 grams/10.49 oz.

Modified stove(with rim) weighs 203.7 grams/6.55 oz.

Total weight reduction is 122.5 grams/3.94 oz.

The stove weights given are without fan assembly.

Fan assembly with battery weighs 110.5 grams/3.55 oz.

I've completely photographed the modification procedure and will post photos and instructions after burn tests are completed.

.007 stainless steel was used to cap off the shortend inner walls to maintain the flow of forced air through the row of holes located on the lower innermost wall as seen in one of the photos.

Enough people wanted titanium zip stoves so they made them using TI. If enough people want a single walled stove they'll make them that way, don't you think so? Less walls, less weight.

[Lanthar Mandragoran]

.007 stainless steel was used to cap off the shortend inner walls to maintain the flow of forced air through the row of holes located on the lower innermost wall as seen in one of the photos.

So, basically you made a SS washer to keep the the embers from falling back into the fan, correct? Nice and simple, modification, I like it. My main concern is the potential for damaging the fan from heat / embers, but I suspect you may have gotten around that with your disk.

[rafe]

I'll wait for the report on how it actually works.

[zelph]

Lanthar!!!! yes, the ss disk is heavily JB welded to the section with holes in it. Protects the fan from ash/embers and heat.

tarrapin_too!!!!!!!! I surmise this modified version is going to blow the lid of the urban legend maybe not, we'll have to wait and see. What is is that I always say, "Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained." Hmmmmm No matter what the results are, I'm having fun

[Skidsteer]

My bet is that it'll work just fine. Probably no difference at all from an unmodified Zip.

And you've got a larger burn chamber than the original. Less refilling.

I tend to agree with you on the double wall. The air moves too fast through it to be warmed much if at all.


But....JBWeld in a forced-air wood stove/mini forge? Not an ideal solution as I'm sure you know.

[neo]

I've modified my zip stove to eliminate the double wall feature. I believe the heating of the fan forced air to be insignificant in the performance of the stove. The volume of forced air being the major contributing factor for the stoves ability to consume wood and provide high heat at a very fast rate.

I will perform tests using my old stove side by side with the modified version as time and weather permits.

First photo shows stove apart before cutting begins

Second photo shows cutting complete

Third photo shows stove re-assembled

Fourth photo shows stove in a bare bones state without upper rim attached. Stove has sufficient strength to be used without it in my opinion. Reduces weight by 18 grams/0.58 oz.

Fifth photo shows cutting being made with a Dremel rotory cutting tool. Blade being used is a diamond impregnated cutoff disc.

The stoves weight before modification was 326.2 grams/10.49 oz.

Modified stove(with rim) weighs 203.7 grams/6.55 oz.

Total weight reduction is 122.5 grams/3.94 oz.

The stove weights given are without fan assembly.

Fan assembly with battery weighs 110.5 grams/3.55 oz.

I've completely photographed the modification procedure and will post photos and instructions after burn tests are completed.

.007 stainless steel was used to cap off the shortend inner walls to maintain the flow of forced air through the row of holes located on the lower innermost wall as seen in one of the photos.

Enough people wanted titanium zip stoves so they made them using TI. If enough people want a single walled stove they'll make them that way, don't you think so? Less walls, less weight.

you aint gonna cut my zip stove up dude neo

[sirbingo]

Sweet idea! Keep us updated Zelph!

Neo, do you still use your Sierra Zip?

[zelph]

Trying my best to get to the test.

First photo shows the Harware

Second photo shows the Softerware

I chose this type of Softerware so that each test burn can have the the same amount of fuel for each consecutive burn. I will count out the exact amount of each size fuel piece for each test.

I'm using fluffed cotton yarn for my tinder starter and the different size sticks as shown in the second photo. Yep!!!!! Clothespins all nice and kiln dried, tounge depressors, and craft sticks.

Water will be taken from the tap and test will be conducted in a calm/no breeze environment.(unheated greenhouse)

Are all of you in agreement that this is looking to be a fair way to go about testing my theory????

Any suggestions or questions?

[Lanthar Mandragoran]

Zelph,

I gotta say that I think that's a great idea for testing the two stoves. You have pretty well calibrated tinder / kindling / fuel sizes... I look forward to hearing how it turns out (along with comparitive pictures of massive flames...)

[rafe]

Trying my best to get to the test.

Second photo shows the Softerware

Are all of you in agreement that this is looking to be a fair way to go about testing my theory????

Once "priming" is complete, you should try even bigger chunks of fuel in both stove types. I use twigs up to 1" diameter or thereabouts in my Zip stove.

[Lanthar Mandragoran]

Once "priming" is complete, you should try even bigger chunks of fuel in both stove types. I use twigs up to 1" diameter or thereabouts in my Zip stove.

Hand-cut dowel rods would work...

[zelph]

I found that the ss pots were not the same weight, one was 38 grams heavier, I swithced to using Kmart grease pots with outward rolled lip. Both were identical.

I attached machine screws to the body of the fan housing to create a stop for the lever that controls the volume of air going into the stove so that each test burn the air volume will be the same.

Assembled a thermometer stand to hold thermometer in pot while stove is heating. Long stemmed thermometer to keep my face away from hot stove and be able to monitor constantly.

All fuel and water has been weighed and are in individual containers ready to go

All materials are now in unheated greenhouse to be aclimated overnight in preparation for tomorrows tests. Three tests per stove will be made.

Tests will be made Saturday and results will be posted Monday

Any Comments? Anything I forgot?

[zelph]

Three tests for each stove have been completed.

After lighting, each stove was given one min. of time for tinder to ignite fuel and then pot of water containing two cups of water was placed onto stove. A clock was placed in a position to the rear and off to the side for photos to show min. into burn.

Temperature of water, fuel and air was at 35 degrees for the first two sets of tests. The temperature for the third set of tests had risen to 37 degrees.

No photographs were taken of the first set of tests

This first photo shows both stoves packed with same amount of fuel.

The next six photos show the progression of testing the unmodified stove during the second set of tests.

Photo one: 2 min. into burn
Photo two: 3 min. into burn
Photo three: 3 1/2 min. into burn
photo four: 5 min. into burn, water boils, flame starts to get smaller
Photo five: 6 min. into burn, steam comes out and raises lid of pot
Photo six: 6 1/2 min into burn shows fuel remaining

The next seven photos show the progression of the testing of the modified stove during the second set of tests.

Photo one: 2 min. into burn
Photo two: 3 min. into burn
Photo three: 4 min. into burn
Photo four: 4 1/2 min. into burn, boiling water pushes lid off pot
Photo five: 4 3/4 min. into burn shows boiling water and flame pattern
Photo six: shows remaining fuel
Photo seven: shows remaining fuel 1/2 min. later

The next eight photos show the progression of the third test done on the unmodified stove. Also shows how the fuel was packed into the burn chamber. The fuel was stacked around a clothespin in the center and later removed before lighting the tinder located at the base of the clothespin. The clothespin formed a hole that was used to put the butane lighter into to start the tinder as shown in one of the photos.

Photo one: shows lay of fuel and clothespin in center
Photo two: filled with fuel with clothespin in middle
Photo three: shows butane lighter in center hole to show how stoves were llit
Photo four: 3 3/4 min. into burn
Photo five: 4 min. 10 sec. into burn, temp at 150+ degrees
Photo six: 4 min. 20 sec. into burn
Photo seven: 5 min. into burn, temp. at 200 deg.
Photo eight: 6 min. into boil water boils

The next three photos show the progression of the third test done on the modified stove. Water boiled at 4 1/2 min.

Photo one: 2 min into burn
Photo two: 2 min. 36 sec. into burn shows flame pattern
Photo three: 3 min. into burn


The next two photos show cleanliness of stoves before and after test.

Photo one: before tests
Photo two: after tests



Boil times for each stove:

Unmodified: Test one: 5 1/2 min.
Test two: 5 min.
Test three: 6 min

Modified: Test one:4 1/2 min.
Test two: 4 min.
Test three: 4 1/2 min.

[nutlub]

Wow! The modified stove out preformed the un-modified!?!?

[Skidsteer]

Wow! The modified stove out preformed the un-modified!?!?

Straighter path for the forced air. Makes sense.

[rafe]

A few comments from Zelph's photos:

1. unusual lighting techniqe
2. more smoke initially
3. higher flames than I'm used to seeing (during use)
4. unusual amount of crud on outside of stove after use

As we learned from Fleischmann and Pons, it's not science until it's shown to be repeatable. Who wants to be next to hack their Zzip stove?

The fuel type may bias the results... if only because "real" fuel is likely to be a lower grade than clothespins (and would involve a different fire-starting technique.)

Note the heavy gloves in one of Zelph's photos. One of my complaints about the Zzip is the time needed for the stove to cool down to where it can be cleaned (or at least shaken out) and put away safely.

[zelph]

[quote=zelph;301043]I've modified my zip stove to eliminate the double wall feature. I believe the heating of the fan forced air to be insignificant in the performance of the stove.

I'm satisfied with results. The results went beyond my expectations. I was expecting the same results from both stoves.

Lanthar was able to see the comparative pictures of massive flames.

Followed the suggestion made by terrapin-too to include large dowel rods, came close to the 1" was able to make it up to 7/8". The one photo shows 2 of them on top of the loaded unmodified stove with the clothespin sticking upright in the middle.

The most important thing that we learned here is how insignificant heated air is to the function of the Sierra Zzip stove.

Another thing we learned from Fleischmann and Pons, it's not science until it's shown to be repeatable.
Repeatability is the variation in measurements taken by a single person or instrument on the same item and under the same conditions. A measurement may be said to be repeatable when this variation is smaller than some agreed limit. According to the Guidelines for Evaluating and Expressing the Uncertainty of NIST Measurement Results, repeatability conditions include:

• the same measurement procedure
• the same observer
• the same measuring instrument, used under the same conditions
• the same location
• repetition over a short period of time.

I believe I have satisfied Terrapin-too's requirements by complying with the above conditions

Also we learned what it is to be reproduceable

Reproducibility is one of the main principles of the scientific method, and refers to the ability of a test or experiment to be accurately reproduced, or replicated, by someone else working independently. The term is very closely related to the concept of testability and, depending on the particular field, may require the test or experiment to be falsifiable.
Reproducibility is different from repeatability, which measures the success rate in successive experiments, possibly conducted by the same experimenters. While repeatability of scientific experiments is desirable, it is not considered necessary to establish the scientific validity of a theory. For example, the cloning of animals is difficult to repeat, but has been reproduced by various teams working independently, and is a well established research domain. One failed cloning does not mean that the theory is wrong or unscientific.

It will only be a matter of time before someone else will modify their Zzip stove to satisfy those that are in disbelief .

Thank You Terrapin for the link to Fleischmann and Pons,

"NOTHING VENTURED NOTHING GAINED"




----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[sirbingo]

I have been thinking of ways to make a homemade Sierra Zip type stove.
Now knowing that the heating of the fan forced air is insignificant I will have to rethink my design.

Thanks Zelph!

[zelph]

Those of you that have the Sierra might be interested in how I modified it into a single wall stove and made it more lightweight.