hammocks in shelters

[Crash]

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don't plan on hanging your hammock in shelters at all. That is very annoying to those below.

that is from a different site.... My response was that in a hammock you are off the floor giving more room to the shelter rats that didnt bother to bring a tent in case the shelter is overcrowded.. and your gear isnt out getting wet from lack of space.... and the late straglers can still have a spot to sleep.... and your ear isnt next to that real loud snorer!

Or am I off base? Pros and cons.....

I only hung my hammock up in a large shelter, most dont have a way to hang the hammock unless I've brought hooks.

[The Weasel]

Crash ----

I had one of the first Hennessey Hammocks, and I love it, with all of its advantages. Other hammocks are cool, too.

But I think I'd have to agree that they don't belong in a shelter. First of all, most people sleep with either their head or feet towards the open side of the shelter, and most shelters are built, of course, with only 3 sides. That means that to set up a hammock, one is essentially going to be horizontal above almost all those sleeping below.

That can be a bit unnerving, since sometimes hammocks sag (and people who want to sit up may find THAT uncomfortable, too), and some folk may not be real excited about lying underneath someone else's butt. And hammocks sometimes fall, either as being improperly tied or a hook comes out (the Hennessy "loop" system won't work w/o a hook). YOu can sorta stress out a lot of people at 3 AM that way.

If it were me, and I really wanted to keep my gear dry, I'd set up my hammock near the shelter, and leave my pack inside, unless I was freaky about someone taking the good stuff.

On the other hand, sometimes people set up their whole TENT inside a shelter, when the trail is really empty. But that doesn't help others much, either!

The Weasel

[brian]

Ive slept over my buddy when a shelter was half full. It was a medium shelter, and one of the rafters was kind of exposed. It was comfortable like it always is (Henessy), and we ended up saving room in the leanto for others...who never came.

Brian
Future Thru Hiker 2013

[Footslogger]

I imagine that a hammock hanging over other hikers could be a tad annoying to some. But this year we packed 17 hikers and a dog into Eckville Shelter (Pennslyvania) on a very rainy night. Eckville, for those of you who have never seen it, is really not much more than an oversized tool shed on some private property and it is set up to sleep about 10 - 12 people. One of the hikers hung his hammock from the rafters that night which made more space below and was truly appreciated.

[Virginian]

I used a Hennessy last year and the only time I hung it in a shelter was when I was the only one there. I think to hang it over someone who is already there would just be rude. I guess if you want to shelter, then shelter. If you want to camp,then camp. We watched one bonehead set up his tent in a shelter and that was also rude. But since he was French we didnt expect any better!

[brian]

Clarification, I set it up over my partner so I wasnt taking up others space. And I was also onthe end near the wall.

Brian

[Rambler]

Alone at a shelter with my two daughters, we tied one end of the hammock to a tree the other to one of the corner beams of the shelter. When weight was applied to the hammock, the beam of the shelter started to move outward. Never again will I use a hammock in or attached to a shelter.

[SGT Rock]

I have set up a hammock in a shelter twice when they were empty other than me, and on another occasion I set up on the porch of the Blue Mountain shelter after asking the others in the shelter if they didn't mind - they actually thought it was cool. It could set one up over someone to make more room but I would be worried and doubt I ever actually would. On the other hand I have seen quiet a few people setting up tents inside shelters. Their tents take up a lot more room than my hammock.

[Youngblood]

Originally posted by Rambler
Alone at a shelter with my two daughters, we tied one end of the hammock to a tree the other to one of the corner beams of the shelter. When weight was applied to the hammock, the beam of the shelter started to move outward. Never again will I use a hammock in or attached to a shelter.

Rambler,

Wow! I didn't think of that one. Great heads-up! The hammock attachment ropes can pull the supports towards each other with a force that is SEVERAL TIMES MORE THAN THE OCCUPANTS WEIGHT. I guess with one or more hammocks and the wrong shelter you might actually pull some things loose. That is not a good senario... best to not hang hammocks in or on shelters.

I'm not sure if most folks understand, but when you tie a hammock between two supports and then put weight in the hammock, you are applying forces to each hammock support that is a function of how taut the hammock attachment ropes are. The tautness can be gauged by the angle the ropes make with the horizon when the hammock is weighted. The force on each support rope is equal to (Weight/2) / sine(Angle). An angle of 30 degrees pulls with a force equal to the occupants weight on each rope while an angle of 15 degrees applies a force nearly double the occupants weight on each rope. MULTIPLY this by the 'leverage' you can get if your attachment point is not near a 'load bearing' support and these forces can be surprisingly high. Again, and cover your ears because I am going to shout it this time, DO NOT HANG HAMMOCKS IN OR ON SHELTERS... in fact it may be irresponsible, even if you understand the mechanics of what is going on.

Youngblood

[Footslogger]

Holy guacamole ...is that like "The angle of the dangle times the mass of the a_ _ "

Sorry, just couldn't help myself Youngblood. Actually, that's a good explanation, albeit technical, of why hammocks in shelters might not be such a good idea.

[icemanat95]

A hammock in a fullish shelter is not polite. No one want's you hanging over their head. Even in a shelter with only a few people, your hammock hanging there will actually fill MORE psychological space. No one will put their stuff under you, because they don't want it stepped on in the middle of the night when you rise to pee. And if your hammock is set up anywhere but on an end/against a wall, your hammock creates a visual barrier between hikers staying in one end of the shelter and hikers in the other end, essentially sudividing the space.

I have set up my tent in shelters one or twice for either added warmth or bug protection. In one case that I remember there were two other people in the shelter, one of whom was my hiking partner at the time, the other was a short term weekender. My partner and I asked the other person if they minded us setting up our tents for some bug protection, got his permission, and then set up as far to one side as possible to leave plenty of room for a few late arrivals. We didn't use tent poles, we just hung the high arch of the inner tent from nails in the rool and the same with the lower arches. Tent stakes wedged in cracks in the floor kept the floor out and away from out bodies a bit. This allowed us to sleep the night without our sleeping bags and avoid getting eaten alive by bugs.

The other time I remember sleeping in my tent inside a shelter was on a cold, rainy night in Vermont. I still hadn't gotten my cold weather sleeping bag yet, but had run into a cold snap in the weather. I was alone in the shelter and held off setting up my tent until sundown when I had reasonable expectations that 10 people weren't going to come wandering in. I set up the tent complete with fly for the extra insulation, and needed it.

I won't say you should never set up in a shelter but make certain that you hammocking in the shelter will not bother anyone else. If anyone even hesitates when you ask, take that as a "no" and set up on the floor or outside.

[Two Speed]

Youngblood hit the nail square on the head. He is not exagerating when he describes the forces that can easily develop. Please bear in mind that the folks that design the framing for the shelters are not anticipating this kind of loading, and therefore this is a potentially dangerous practice. I can think of several scenarios that could cause the shelter, or a portion of it, to collapse, possibly without warning.

This is one of those practices that will work out most of the time, but the one time it goes wrong, someone is going to get hurt. Unless you're a structural engineer or a master carpenter, please hang your hammock between large trees.

[Crash]

I wasn't really sure until I posted. Now I remember why I like my hammock & not using the shelters-
'shelter rats'- I forgot 'they' rule the shelters and push everyone else out by their annoying rules and diatribes. I'll remember not to crash at a shelter.

[Crash]

My apologies to Green Turtle, Dragonfly, and Red headed stranger who were the nicest shelter rats I've run into.

[smokymtnsteve]

Hooks..

how are you hanging the hammock in the shelter..what are you tying to??..

[flyfisher]

In general, like others have said, it is easier to set up outside a shelter than inside. It is quiter, smells better, and getting up in the middle of the night is easy. This is an easy decision when there are lots of hikers during the season.

I have twice set up in a shelter when alone, but only after it was well past dark and it was obvious I would be alone at the shelter. For winter camping, there is some advantage to the windblock of the shelter, and it is nice to step on a dry floor for the middle of the night pee break.

Some shelters are easy to set up a hammock in. Most are difficult. Best shelter I have seen for the hammock is the Wise Shelter in Grayson Highlands. In this shelter the hammock can be set up from back to front, not side to side.

Risk

[Crash]

OK, some of the old shelters can't take the stress of the hammock. Most of the shelters in Pa are built solidly and can handle it. Problem with a lot of sites is there aren't trees near the shelters, they've been chopped down.

[SGT Rock]

Bahh,just get away from the shelter to sleep, 100' away is a good distance.

[Footslogger]

I don't hammock as much these days as I used to ...but about the only time I'd consider hanging it in a shelter was if I got to the campsite in a downpour. Otherwise, like Rock said, I'd walk out 20 - 30 yards and find a couple trees.

It's not about whether the shelters will hold the weight or not ...for me it was about the peace and quiet. Plus ...I've been known to snor on occasion so being away from a shelter is the least I can do for other hikers.

'Slogger
AT 2003

[Frosty]

Problem with a lot of sites is there aren't trees near the shelters, they've been chopped down.

How close do you need to be to a shelter?