Custom External Frame - WhiteBlaze

RagingHampster · 12-11-2003, 15:10

Ok guys/gals, I know most of you like your internal frames, but I just plain love my external frame... everything but the pack itself. I love how an external frame is so rigid, and is held off your back.

Like all backpacks, it has problems with getting soaked in the rain/snow. Even when I use a packcover, the bag gets wet on the back where the mesh holds it from my back. It's also a pain in the you know what when you need something at the bottom of the bag when it's pouring out. There's also alot of crap on it I don't need, and god only knows the point of bags within bags.

So here is what I'm going to make. Using the frame and suspension from a Camp Trails Adjustable III, I'm going to make two thin fiberglass brackets with slots attatched vertically to the frame, kind of like two mini skis spaced 8 inches apart that are riveted to the frame. To those, I can add 3-5 Outdoor Research Advanced Hydroseal Stuffsacks depending on my capacity needs. Most of the time it will be 4, adding the fifth for food on weeklong hikes. I'm going to use the 9" x 17" sacks (1100ci), meaning 3300-5500ci.

Everything will be easy to get to, you can use one of them as a food bag, everything will be waterproof (except suspension padding), and it should weigh around 4-4.5lbs depending on how many sacks your using.

We'll see how it turns out!

DebW · 12-11-2003, 15:44

I don't understand the point of the fiberglass brackets. They must be to attach the bags to the frame, though I'm not visualizing what you mean. But anyway, sounds like a reasonable idea. The hydroseal bags are waterproof and sturdy. They probably mount horizontally, so you can open one in the rain without it filling with water. Sounds somewhat like the Gearskin if you put everything in 9x17 stuff sacks. And the good thing is you're not limited to a certain capacity like an internal frame pack would be. I believe that Brawny used an external frame with stuff sacks tied on for her early PCT trek. Maybe you could bounce the idea off of her. Here's the URL for her packless frame description:

http://www.trailquest.net/BRpackless.html

Streamweaver · 12-11-2003, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by DebW

I don't understand the point of the fiberglass brackets. They must be to attach the bags to the frame, though I'm not visualizing what you mean. But anyway, sounds like a reasonable idea. The hydroseal bags are waterproof and sturdy. They probably mount horizontally, so you can open one in the rain without it filling with water. Sounds somewhat like the Gearskin if you put everything in 9x17 stuff sacks. And the good thing is you're not limited to a certain capacity like an internal frame pack would be. I believe that Brawny used an external frame with stuff sacks tied on for her early PCT trek. Maybe you could bounce the idea off of her. Here's the URL for her packless frame description:

http://www.trailquest.net/BRpackless.html

Luxurylite.com Not a bad Idea considering Valcour is getting $600.00+ a pop for a system like you describe!! Streamweaver

RagingHampster · 12-12-2003, 12:03

Hahaha! I guess someone has already made something similar. Mine will be a bit different though, with a tougher frame, more comfortable suspension, and customizable storage. I'd also trust an OR drybag more than one of those waterproofed packcloth bags.

I plan to spend way less than $650 too...

As for the fiberglass "skis", they will be two strips of fiberglass about 2.5" wide, and 28" long. I will mold slots into them horizontally to pass nylon straps through to hold the drybags. They will be mounted vertically to the frame as mounting strips.

| - | | - |
| - | | - |
| - | | - |
| - | | - |
| - | | - |
| - | | - |

Kind of like that, but the strips will be farther apart, and the strap slots further apart. Then once these are mounted to the frame, you can simply lash the drybags to them using the drybags, daisy chains.

RagingHampster · 12-17-2003, 10:46

Well I stripped the "pack" off my frame and suspension, have everything measured up, and 3 more OR Hydroseal Drybags on the way. I should have it all together by this weekend!

(can't wait!)

tlbj6142 · 12-17-2003, 11:16

Someone has photos of a sub-1# External frame on in the backpackinglight yahoo group photo folders. I'll give you link in a minute.

Damn it! I can't find it now. I swear it was part of that groups photos. Maybe it was part of the hammockcamping group (I no longer subscribe).

Any way, this guy built one first with AL angle beams. I think it weighed 2#. Then, it built a similar pack frame using the lightweight AL tent poles for the vertical members, but thiner angle beams for the outer frame. I'm fairly certain it was a sub-1# pack frame (excluding the shoulder and hip straps). It looked great. Maybe a quick google will turn something up.

Streamweaver · 12-17-2003, 13:04

DJs Frame Pack << It wasnt this pack was it??

RagingHampster · 12-17-2003, 13:28

LOL!

Boy does that thing look uncomfortable!

Hahaha!

Thank god for HYOH!

tlbj6142 · 12-18-2003, 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streamweaver

DJs Frame Pack << It wasnt this pack was it??

Nope. It looked a bit more "professional" than that one. The pictures only showed the frame without gear and straps.

MDSHiker · 12-18-2003, 09:51

I took a Jansport external frame backpack and removed the "pack" from the frame. Then filled up two silnylon stuff sacks with all my gear and then strapped them to the frame. I used it a few times and it actually wasn't bad...just looked goofy has heck. I like the concept but missed all those pockets.

RagingHampster · 12-19-2003, 14:22

Thats essentially what I'm in the process of doing MDS...

I for one am going to enjoy not lugging around all those off shaped protrusions called "pockets"...

RagingHampster · 12-20-2003, 16:21

Well I just got all the OR Drybags in, and picked up 6 more quick-release buckle straps from Wal-Mart. I'm now debating on the design to attatch the bags to to the frame. I'd like the bags to mount as rigid as possible, reducing sway, and eliminating the chance one might come undone.

Looking good so far though!

LBJ · 12-21-2003, 21:31

Wow! This is one of those "why didn't I think if this" things that drives me crazy. I tried this out with my old Kelty Tioga frame and four stuff sacks and loved it. Right now I plan to start my thru hike with this system. Thanks RH and Brawny!!. I have bought a Gregory Whitney($350), a GVP4($80), and a UL2($225) in the past year, when I had the answer for free in my forgotten gear!

tlbj6142 · 12-25-2003, 15:56

I found the photos of the frames I mentioned earlier in this thread. They are in the Yahoo! group "MakeGear" photo album. If you can't find them, let me know I'll d/l them and post them here.

The moderator of that Yahoo! group is the person who made them.

LBJ · 12-25-2003, 20:15

let me know I'll d/l them and post them here.
Hey Yellow Jacket,
Please post the photos, I would like to see them! The reason I tried this is that I have not found a pack as comfortable as my external frame Kelty, but like Rh, I had problems keeping things dry in it without using waterproof bags in addition to the packbag. I got a new blaze-orange colored waterproof stuffsack for Christmas that looks pretty good. It's not an OR bag, but from a company called WXtex. You can blow it up like a bladder if you want to after putting your gear in.
Thanks,

tlbj6142 · 12-25-2003, 20:33

I put them in my gallery...

http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/sh...500&ppuser=681

Streamweaver · 12-25-2003, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlbj6142

I put them in my gallery...

http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/sh...500&ppuser=681

That frame dont look very comfortable either! It looks like a window frame lol
Maybe if he got rid of the vertical supports and had just a couple horizontal supports and added some mesh for a back back band it might be more user freindly. That way it would also be away from the back somewhat allowing air to circulate like a regular frame. Streamweaver

tlbj6142 · 12-25-2003, 22:04

I can't tell which way it sits on our back, is the bottom "L" part against your hips, or does it point out? Unfortunatley, he doesn't show any pictures with the hipbelt, shoulder straps and "pack bag(s)" in place, so I have no real way to judge its aparent comfort level. If I ever see "loaded" pics, I'll update the thread.

BTW, he also has a pulk/sled/frame combo as well. It let's him "wear" the sled as a pack frame if he chooses.

Streamweaver · 12-25-2003, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlbj6142

I can't tell which way it sits on our back, is the bottom "L" part against your hips, or does it point out? Unfortunatley, he doesn't show any pictures with the hipbelt, shoulder straps and "pack bag(s)" in place, so I have no real way to judge its aparent comfort level. If I ever see "loaded" pics, I'll update the thread.

BTW, he also has a pulk/sled/frame combo as well. It let's him "wear" the sled as a pack frame if he chooses.

It looks like he has them sitting up ,at what I guess is the bottom there is a curved support on each side that looks to me like it would be where the belt will go so it curves around the hips . Just guessing tho lol Streamweaver

tlbj6142 · 12-25-2003, 22:12

He frame really doesn't look that bad. Check out this kelty frame it looks about the same. Though it shows the hipbelt, shoulder straps and back mesh in place.

12-11-2003, 15:10	#1
RagingHampster Yes, I know I mis-spelled "Hamster"... Join Date: 11-26-2002 Location: Athol, MA View my gallery 30 Age: 27 Posts: 710 Images: 30	Custom External Frame Ok guys/gals, I know most of you like your internal frames, but I just plain love my external frame... everything but the pack itself. I love how an external frame is so rigid, and is held off your back. Like all backpacks, it has problems with getting soaked in the rain/snow. Even when I use a packcover, the bag gets wet on the back where the mesh holds it from my back. It's also a pain in the you know what when you need something at the bottom of the bag when it's pouring out. There's also alot of crap on it I don't need, and god only knows the point of bags within bags. So here is what I'm going to make. Using the frame and suspension from a Camp Trails Adjustable III, I'm going to make two thin fiberglass brackets with slots attatched vertically to the frame, kind of like two mini skis spaced 8 inches apart that are riveted to the frame. To those, I can add 3-5 Outdoor Research Advanced Hydroseal Stuffsacks depending on my capacity needs. Most of the time it will be 4, adding the fifth for food on weeklong hikes. I'm going to use the 9" x 17" sacks (1100ci), meaning 3300-5500ci. Everything will be easy to get to, you can use one of them as a food bag, everything will be waterproof (except suspension padding), and it should weigh around 4-4.5lbs depending on how many sacks your using. We'll see how it turns out! __________________ "A man builds a fine house; and now he has a master, and a task for life; he is to furnish, watch, show it, and keep it in repair, the rest of his days". ...Ralph Waldo Emerson GA-ME Someday (Maybe '06?) Many Miles in Massachusetts & Vermont...

12-12-2003, 12:03	#4
RagingHampster Yes, I know I mis-spelled "Hamster"... Join Date: 11-26-2002 Location: Athol, MA View my gallery 30 Age: 27 Posts: 710 Images: 30	Hahaha! I guess someone has already made something similar. Mine will be a bit different though, with a tougher frame, more comfortable suspension, and customizable storage. I'd also trust an OR drybag more than one of those waterproofed packcloth bags. I plan to spend way less than $650 too... As for the fiberglass "skis", they will be two strips of fiberglass about 2.5" wide, and 28" long. I will mold slots into them horizontally to pass nylon straps through to hold the drybags. They will be mounted vertically to the frame as mounting strips. \| - \| \| - \| \| - \| \| - \| \| - \| \| - \| \| - \| \| - \| \| - \| \| - \| \| - \| \| - \| Kind of like that, but the strips will be farther apart, and the strap slots further apart. Then once these are mounted to the frame, you can simply lash the drybags to them using the drybags, daisy chains. __________________ "A man builds a fine house; and now he has a master, and a task for life; he is to furnish, watch, show it, and keep it in repair, the rest of his days". ...Ralph Waldo Emerson GA-ME Someday (Maybe '06?) Many Miles in Massachusetts & Vermont...

12-17-2003, 10:46	#5
RagingHampster Yes, I know I mis-spelled "Hamster"... Join Date: 11-26-2002 Location: Athol, MA View my gallery 30 Age: 27 Posts: 710 Images: 30	Well I stripped the "pack" off my frame and suspension, have everything measured up, and 3 more OR Hydroseal Drybags on the way. I should have it all together by this weekend! (can't wait!) __________________ "A man builds a fine house; and now he has a master, and a task for life; he is to furnish, watch, show it, and keep it in repair, the rest of his days". ...Ralph Waldo Emerson GA-ME Someday (Maybe '06?) Many Miles in Massachusetts & Vermont...

12-17-2003, 11:16	#6
tlbj6142 Yellow Jacket Join Date: 02-13-2003 Location: Columbus, Ohio View my gallery 11 Age: 40 Posts: 1,918 Images: 11	Someone has photos of a sub-1# External frame on in the backpackinglight yahoo group photo folders. I'll give you link in a minute. Damn it! I can't find it now. I swear it was part of that groups photos. Maybe it was part of the hammockcamping group (I no longer subscribe). Any way, this guy built one first with AL angle beams. I think it weighed 2#. Then, it built a similar pack frame using the lightweight AL tent poles for the vertical members, but thiner angle beams for the outer frame. I'm fairly certain it was a sub-1# pack frame (excluding the shoulder and hip straps). It looked great. Maybe a quick google will turn something up. __________________ Yellow Jacket -- Words of Wisdom (tm) go here.

12-17-2003, 13:04	#7
Streamweaver Registered User Join Date: 10-17-2002 Location: Central Maryland/Bawlmer County View my gallery 1 Age: 43 Posts: 552 Images: 1	DJs Frame Pack << It wasnt this pack was it?? __________________ "Theres is no real hope of traveling perfectly light in the mountains.It is good to try,as long as you realize that,like proving a unified field theory,mastering Kanji,or routinely brewing the perfect cup of coffee,the game can never be won." Smoke Blanchard

12-11-2003, 15:44	#2
DebW Section Hiker 350 miles Join Date: 09-10-2002 Location: Boston area View my gallery 55 Age: 53 Posts: 714 Images: 55	I don't understand the point of the fiberglass brackets. They must be to attach the bags to the frame, though I'm not visualizing what you mean. But anyway, sounds like a reasonable idea. The hydroseal bags are waterproof and sturdy. They probably mount horizontally, so you can open one in the rain without it filling with water. Sounds somewhat like the Gearskin if you put everything in 9x17 stuff sacks. And the good thing is you're not limited to a certain capacity like an internal frame pack would be. I believe that Brawny used an external frame with stuff sacks tied on for her early PCT trek. Maybe you could bounce the idea off of her. Here's the URL for her packless frame description: http://www.trailquest.net/BRpackless.html

12-17-2003, 13:28	#8
RagingHampster Yes, I know I mis-spelled "Hamster"... Join Date: 11-26-2002 Location: Athol, MA View my gallery 30 Age: 27 Posts: 710 Images: 30	LOL! Boy does that thing look uncomfortable! Hahaha! Thank god for HYOH! __________________ "A man builds a fine house; and now he has a master, and a task for life; he is to furnish, watch, show it, and keep it in repair, the rest of his days". ...Ralph Waldo Emerson GA-ME Someday (Maybe '06?) Many Miles in Massachusetts & Vermont...

12-18-2003, 09:51	#10
MDSHiker Registered User Join Date: 02-10-2003 Location: Alabama Posts: 117	I took a Jansport external frame backpack and removed the "pack" from the frame. Then filled up two silnylon stuff sacks with all my gear and then strapped them to the frame. I used it a few times and it actually wasn't bad...just looked goofy has heck. I like the concept but missed all those pockets.

12-19-2003, 14:22	#11
RagingHampster Yes, I know I mis-spelled "Hamster"... Join Date: 11-26-2002 Location: Athol, MA View my gallery 30 Age: 27 Posts: 710 Images: 30	Thats essentially what I'm in the process of doing MDS... I for one am going to enjoy not lugging around all those off shaped protrusions called "pockets"... __________________ "A man builds a fine house; and now he has a master, and a task for life; he is to furnish, watch, show it, and keep it in repair, the rest of his days". ...Ralph Waldo Emerson GA-ME Someday (Maybe '06?) Many Miles in Massachusetts & Vermont...

12-20-2003, 16:21	#12
RagingHampster Yes, I know I mis-spelled "Hamster"... Join Date: 11-26-2002 Location: Athol, MA View my gallery 30 Age: 27 Posts: 710 Images: 30	Well I just got all the OR Drybags in, and picked up 6 more quick-release buckle straps from Wal-Mart. I'm now debating on the design to attatch the bags to to the frame. I'd like the bags to mount as rigid as possible, reducing sway, and eliminating the chance one might come undone. Looking good so far though! __________________ "A man builds a fine house; and now he has a master, and a task for life; he is to furnish, watch, show it, and keep it in repair, the rest of his days". ...Ralph Waldo Emerson GA-ME Someday (Maybe '06?) Many Miles in Massachusetts & Vermont...

12-21-2003, 21:31	#13
LBJ Registered User Join Date: 12-03-2002 Location: Eureka, Missouri Age: 66 Posts: 79	Packless Pack Wow! This is one of those "why didn't I think if this" things that drives me crazy. I tried this out with my old Kelty Tioga frame and four stuff sacks and loved it. Right now I plan to start my thru hike with this system. Thanks RH and Brawny!!. I have bought a Gregory Whitney($350), a GVP4($80), and a UL2($225) in the past year, when I had the answer for free in my forgotten gear! __________________ John Carnahan jac_150@hotmail.com

12-25-2003, 15:56	#14
tlbj6142 Yellow Jacket Join Date: 02-13-2003 Location: Columbus, Ohio View my gallery 11 Age: 40 Posts: 1,918 Images: 11	I found the photos of the frames I mentioned earlier in this thread. They are in the Yahoo! group "MakeGear" photo album. If you can't find them, let me know I'll d/l them and post them here. The moderator of that Yahoo! group is the person who made them. __________________ Yellow Jacket -- Words of Wisdom (tm) go here.

12-25-2003, 20:15	#15
LBJ Registered User Join Date: 12-03-2002 Location: Eureka, Missouri Age: 66 Posts: 79	External Frame + Stuffsacks let me know I'll d/l them and post them here. Hey Yellow Jacket, Please post the photos, I would like to see them! The reason I tried this is that I have not found a pack as comfortable as my external frame Kelty, but like Rh, I had problems keeping things dry in it without using waterproof bags in addition to the packbag. I got a new blaze-orange colored waterproof stuffsack for Christmas that looks pretty good. It's not an OR bag, but from a company called WXtex. You can blow it up like a bladder if you want to after putting your gear in. Thanks, __________________ John Carnahan jac_150@hotmail.com

12-25-2003, 20:33	#16
tlbj6142 Yellow Jacket Join Date: 02-13-2003 Location: Columbus, Ohio View my gallery 11 Age: 40 Posts: 1,918 Images: 11	I put them in my gallery... http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/sh...500&ppuser=681 __________________ Yellow Jacket -- Words of Wisdom (tm) go here.

12-25-2003, 22:04	#18
tlbj6142 Yellow Jacket Join Date: 02-13-2003 Location: Columbus, Ohio View my gallery 11 Age: 40 Posts: 1,918 Images: 11	I can't tell which way it sits on our back, is the bottom "L" part against your hips, or does it point out? Unfortunatley, he doesn't show any pictures with the hipbelt, shoulder straps and "pack bag(s)" in place, so I have no real way to judge its aparent comfort level. If I ever see "loaded" pics, I'll update the thread. BTW, he also has a pulk/sled/frame combo as well. It let's him "wear" the sled as a pack frame if he chooses. __________________ Yellow Jacket -- Words of Wisdom (tm) go here.

12-25-2003, 22:12	#20
tlbj6142 Yellow Jacket Join Date: 02-13-2003 Location: Columbus, Ohio View my gallery 11 Age: 40 Posts: 1,918 Images: 11	He frame really doesn't look that bad. Check out this kelty frame it looks about the same. Though it shows the hipbelt, shoulder straps and back mesh in place. __________________ Yellow Jacket -- Words of Wisdom (tm) go here.

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