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  1. #1
    Springer-->Stony Brook Road VT MedicineMan's Avatar
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    Default Luxurylite Gear Pack Recieved:

    Initial impressions: surprising surprising surprising...this pack could be the beginnning of the return of the external pack...if you are old enough try to remember what you loved about your first external frame pack. Mine was a Jansport D2 and Valcour model beets is almost 5 pounds. I emptied the Mithril of all that I carried on the 5 day section from Buena Vista to Bearwallow Gap and then placed those contents into the luxuylite pack-easy, compartmentalized, order instilled as to where something is but subjectively it felt lighter than the same equiped internal frame pack. I like how it stands up because of its frame, the integral seating pad that allows you to rest against the cylinders, its user adjustable frame top bar height-for when you want to carry even more gear/pads/etc. You will like how the cylinders remove to make day packs or add bigger or smaller cylinders, and you can day hike with the front pack. The hip belt was a bit surprise in that it is very comfortable and are the shocking shoulder straps that are intended to carry no weight at all. The uprights on the ends of the frams are intended to accept an umbrella for those of use who like umbrellas but hate to loose a pole to hold it. Color selection is good with me choosing green/gray. and after packingit up I had plenty of room left for other gear.
    Bottom cylinder: PeaPOd,ArcAlpinist,Speer Hammock, MacCat Fly
    Midle Cylinder: camp clothes (1pant 1shirt 1thermawrap jacket 1 puffball vest)
    3 days of food, stove, fuel
    Top cylinder: essentials (toiletries/meds/tp/reading glases, rain gear, hat) still with room left over.
    Umbrella on frame upright.
    Next week it will be trailtested probably from Max patch road to Davenport gap and I will report back with more info if any are interested and detailed pics if any want to see them.
    MedicineMan

  2. #2

    Default

    MedicineMan, you are on a spending frenzy!

    I've found this pack interesting, but I just can't swallow the price. I am really intrigued about a lightweight external frame, I think it's a really good idea. I would need to try one before I dropped the $350 on it. If it fit/worked great, I would definitely spend that on it, but I can't quite buy it site unseen for that.

    I look forward to your review after a hike.

    So the shoulder straps are miniscule? Is that it? Are they just webbing?

  3. #3
    Springer - Front Royal Lilred's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MedicineMan
    Initial impressions: surprising surprising surprising...this pack could be the beginnning of the return of the external pack...I will report back with more info if any are interested and detailed pics if any want to see them.
    MedicineMan

    I'd love to see pics of this pack. It's out of my price range too, but ya never know what might happen.....
    "It was on the first of May, in the year 1769, that I resigned my domestic happiness for a time, and left my family and peaceable habitation on the Yadkin River, in North Carolina, to wander through the wilderness of America." - Daniel Boone

  4. #4
    Springer-->Stony Brook Road VT MedicineMan's Avatar
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    Default delay on the true testing but some more info:

    Me too in the chagrin on couging up 350$ but I put the monthly required amt into savings, pay my taxes and have never been late on child support! so the rest I play with and paddling,hiking,backpacking,bagpiping, woodcarving are my hobbies along with travel....so gear gear and more gear....back to the pack....

    La AquaNa is changing jobs so this weeks overnighter is out, all we can get in is a day hike from MaxPatchRoad to Davenport Gap, been a while since I've scaled Snowbird and SoBo is wont be much of a challenge, so no overnighter this week off. But I have learned a great deal about the LuxuryLight Pack in the meantime, mostly because I met with Brucce Warren who makes this pack at TrailDays. Here is what we learned:
    1. the pack I recieved has and adjustable telescoping frame...I never noticed at home! and here is the cool part, after playing around (we're talking seconds here) it fits me at 6'1" or La AquaNa at 5'1"
    2. the hip belt seemed very small for me and it was supposed to be adjustable to fit a very wide range, Bruce showed us the adjustment velcro on the actual hip pad-another thing we failed to notice, and now it fits La AquaNa or me-again a big range in waist sizing.
    3. At home I velcro/strapped my GoLite Umbrella to the pack frame, Bruce pointed out that the top of each frame member is open to allow an umbrella shaft to be placed into it. This is important for a lot of hikers who want/use an umbrella but do not want to let go/loose one hiking pole to gain an umbrella. For me I know many miles hiking not in a downpour but a steady misty rain I wished I could use my umbrella-hating hoods and still building up too much heat in a hat. I have mentally crafted a 'shield' kinda like on a baby buggy that ratchets up into several positions....not an easy idea with an internal but now very possible with this pack.
    4. Gear storage: may have mentioned this before, I took the contents of the Mithril used two weeks ago from Buena Vista to Bearwallow Gap and 3 days food and put it all into the LuxuryLite Pack ----from now on let's call it the LLP.
    In the bottom cylinder: Speer Pea Pod/Speer Hammock, Top Quilt (Nunatak Arc Alpinist), and 8x10 Equinox sil-nyl fly
    Middle Cylinder: camp clothes (Thermawrap Jacket, Puffball Vest, Pearl Izumi Long Sleeve biking top, nylon shorts, 1pair spare socks), fleece mittens and balaclava. SnowPeak pot, Brasslite stove, fuel bottle, 3 days food
    Top Cylinder: odds/ends lighter,headlamp, rain gear (Patagonia Specter,Golite Reed pants)
    Clipped to the outside of the pack: Kavu rice paddy hat.

    The bottom cylinder was tightly packed as was the middle cylinder. The top cylinder had plenty of room left over, enough for a WM Flight and some down booties. Maybe even an Arc Edge (will know that by July), this thiking toward winter hikes.

    Comfort: I was comparing a loaded LLP with a loaded Mithril, the Mithril was custom made to fit me, and also comparing it to yesterdays external,a Jansport D2 which I used for many many (too)many years. The same weight felt lighter, but interestingly Sgt. Rock at TrailDays thought the same weight felt heavier (he was comparing a loaded LLP that Bruce Warren had to the same weight he carries in a GearSkin).

    The advantages of the external are apparent in the LLP, when La AquaNa had it on I placed my hands between the cylinders and her back showing the amount of ventilation there is there.
    When you sit the loaded pack down on the ground it stands up on its own, this because of the frame at the bottom. The seat/lounger that connects to the bottom was small but Bruce gave me the larger replacement at TrailDays. I played with the original at home, and before attaching it thought it a bust, but was surprised to see that it actually works, still I dream of another sitting option using carbon fiber.

    If two people have this pack then can do what we used to do with the Jansport D2 which would also stand on its own...place the packs about 4-5feet apart and drape a tarp over them-instant shelter for eating lunch.

    The price is outrageous I agree, more even than what I paid for the custom Mithril and this is not a pack you can throw to the ground fully loaded-that is why I moved away from the GVP-4, I dont want anything I have to baby, but at my age how many times do I throw a pack down in disgust? well I dont, I only throw them down when I fall down and I try to keep that to a minimum

    Bruce Warren of LuxuryLite Gear believes external frame packs are the pack of the future, I know I hate the amount of sweat that buids on the back when wearing an internal, only time will tell.

    As soon as I get a decent hike in with it I will report back on the good and the bad. I wont cry if after one hike it ends up in the museum upstairs but it might be the pack I carry for a while.
    Oh,forgot one thing,,,,I did find a site where the members were heavily slamming this pack, I bet none have actually tried it. One thing they mentioned was there was no where on the outside to attach things. This is wrong. Each cylinder has clips that act as insurance for the velcro, these clips offer 6 places you can attach things. Also because the frame is adjustable you can easily attach a solid foam pad on top or another cylinder.

    Also I didnt mention the front pack...probably the most interesting feature...the logic is there about balancing the load but I will have to carrying it for a while to see if I like it. Currently we use Dana Designs Rib Packs that attach to the shoulder strap, in it we have filter bottle, snacks and camera and I like it on the side...just dont know yet about having it in the middle.

    MedicineMan

  5. #5

    Default Thanks

    Thanks Medicine Man. You help us more than you know.

  6. #6
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Default

    I talked to him about this pack. It seems that the frame pack is actually the easier part of the build. The cylinders are the hard, labor intensive pieces. I considerded later the idea that maybe he could sell the frame pack without the cylinders at a lower price and allow the user to possibly just lash to the frame or use a mesh pocket system to avoid the VERY hig price. Too bad I didn't think of that while I was there with him so I could discuss this.
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  7. #7

    Default Naked Frame

    SGT Rock,

    Great suggestion about selling the frame alone.

    I added this option to the website for the do-it-yourself packers out there.

    BTW, at 1 pound 5 ounces, this frame with belts weighs 5 ounces less than the 2003 model Gearskin I own.

    Bruce Warren

  8. #8
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    Default Luxurylite Gear Pack

    I am really glad to see Bruce trying to help bring back the External Frame Pack.

    I have been making a very light version of the Army Ruck Frame design. The last one was out of Titanium and Aluminum. The striped frame was under 7oz. I received some carbon fiber tubes last Friday and will make a version with them. The carbon fiber tubes will let me drop another 1/2oz or so I think.

    I am making a real "breathable" set of shoulder straps and hip belt. Just like cotton kills, sweat also kills the effeciency of all our high tech expensive fabric. The intertnal or sleeping pad supported packs lay on you creating what I call a "Sweat Zone". The non-breathing hip belt and shoulder straps cause you to sweat under them and also act as a containment zone. I have a Kelty White Cloud and the total sq. inches of "Sweat Zone" with that pack is about 460 sq inches. This makes any kind of moisture management from your high teck fabric perform below what it was designed to do. The pressure of the straps and hip belt create "Sweat Zones" preventing ventilation from pit-zips if you have them. There is a lot more to this, but I will just stop here.

    When talking about the cost of things we must factor in the effeciency of what we are buying. I wanted a rain jacket that costs a little over $300. If I pull on an internal frame pack or sleeping pad supported pack and degrade the efficiency of my jacket by a lot, I might as well save my money and wear a garbage bag.

  9. #9
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Default

    Glad I could come up with a good idea. I like the weight of the pack and it looks comfortable. I figure it will make a good system for anyone especially if you can keep the weight under 30 pounds.
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  10. #10
    Springer-->Stony Brook Road VT MedicineMan's Avatar
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    Default Gardenville makes an excellent point....

    with external frames we might regain some breathability in the high dollar jackets we wear, obviously no dollar-material will breath against an internal sac....
    not that i would leave home without rain gear but who wants to hike in a sauna?
    but the Mary Poppins look may gain some love in the hiking community, Jardine showed us long ago that the umbrella offers the most ventilation possible...that ability alone is refreshing in the backpacking world and I just ordered another one of those lightweight tripods to clip on top...how many times there has not been a limb to hold the thing, now with the LLP's top cross member I always have a tripod stand....

  11. #11
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Default

    The Packa actualy vented well for me since the pack goes under it like a poncho. the pack straps don't create pockets where the air cannot flow.
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  12. #12
    Administrator attroll's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock
    The Packa actualy vented well for me since the pack goes under it like a poncho. the pack straps don't create pockets where the air cannot flow.
    So Rock are you going to run out and buy one or are you going to stick with your gear skin?
    AT Troll (2010)
    Time does not wait for you, it keeps on rolling.

    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

  13. #13
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    Default Luxurylite Gear Pack

    I looked at the picture of the pack with the umbrella holder. The pack looks good and the umbrella holder looks like it was made for the frame. I ordered one of the umbrella holders. How much do they weigh? I have 2 Dana Designs Rib Packs. A large and a small. One is a left side and the other is a right side. When I get some time I am going to make one out of some real light silnylon to reduce the weight. I like having my water bottle close and my camera where I can get it out easy.

    Have you thought about trying to mount your Mithril pack on the Luxurylite Frame?

    I see the External Frame Pack like the Mac computer, the Mac is about 5% of the market and I would guess the External Frame Pack is about the same. The PC/Windows computer is cheaper and only OK. For now marketing and cost has overwhelmed pack sales toward the Internal or Sleeping Pad supported stlye.

    The Frame Bruce makes is a good start, but in all frankness it just costs to much. What is needed is an External Frame that a lot of different pack bags can be used on that costs less than $$$$$$ (WHAT)?? What would be cheap enough to get hikers attention and cause them to try one. Once hooked then a logicial upgrade could be something like the Luxurylite or its follow-on model.

  14. #14
    Springer-->Stony Brook Road VT MedicineMan's Avatar
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    Default Gardenville, more excellent points....

    Concerning attaching the mithril I dont think so and here is why:
    1. ventilation- the mithril will soak you from bottom of the neck to
    your tailbone
    2. weight is not much different compared to the external frame advantages,
    mithril is only 2-3ounces lighter post mods moonbow did for me (expanded
    top pocket to hold 100oz bladder,key keeper, 2 hip belt pockets (that
    aren't spectra)I will
    confirm the exact difference via the post office someday
    3. size- the mithril is actually longer, but you could fully extend the LLP
    and get it to fit
    4. would have to sew on some attachment points on the mithril

    OK, maybe not really good reasons 'cepting ventilation which is one of the
    major plusses this pack offers.

    My leaning toward the mithril would be for resistance to tears, the material
    is strong, and Bruce Warren warns to treat the LLP like a baby....honestly I dont like babying anything i take into the woods---how about spectra cylinders??? now that is a thought if you could get the stuff (i think the military is still hogging all of it, Sgt RocK?????), but with that said I dont intentially trash any gear i buy, but falls happen, just ask my ribs

    Just noticed at the accessories site that Bruce has dropped the price of the LLP to 295$........now thats a carrot dangling in front of you isnt it.....

  15. #15
    Springer-->Stony Brook Road VT MedicineMan's Avatar
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    Default now here is what i want next

    I want an attachment system at the top of the frame members for my hiking poles so they can snap on to the frame and run to the ground...the attachment needs to allow you to vary how much pole is used....
    then i want the frame of the backpack to be strong enough to support my big but and the rest of me...
    if on the LLP then you partially unload the cylinders, attach your hiking poles and then have a true recliner that gets that big but and the rest of me off the ground...
    nothing wrong with the little sitting pad he sells with the LLP, and it actually works in that it doesnt slip out from under you and you can lean against the pack without it tipping over backwards...i just want more in the ways of a reclining OFF the ground position
    then i would want a sherpa to hump the porter or stout

  16. #16
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by attroll
    So Rock are you going to run out and buy one or are you going to stick with your gear skin?
    Well I am sticking to my Gearskin. I am very happy with it. What I have decided for my raingear though is something like this:

    Cold weather - seperate pack cover and jacket. This way I can keep my jacket on in wet, cold weather even if I remove my pack. The benifit of a packa venting isn't that needed and the need to keep dry when dropping my pack is needed.

    Warm weather - packa. The ventalation is great, and getting wet for short periods of time when dropping my pack isn't so important because I can dry fast without getting hypothermia.

    I tied umbrellas (I still have mine) but didn't care for it much. I am going to try one of these frame pack ideas, I think a lashing system would be killer especially in the soaking wet hot weather of Louisiana. In this case hooking an umbrella to the pack may work. But just a couple of weeks ago I was on a bald with slanting rain, sleet, and lightning. An umbrella would have been less than worthless while my packa was da poop!
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  17. #17

    Default A Few Questions

    MedicineMan (or Bruce), I have a few more questions...

    How would you attach a bladder to this setup? I wonder if you could sew on little pockets on the ends of the cylinders? I like having at least a few pockets.

    I am considering getting one, I'm still nervous about spending that kind of dough without trying it first. Hmmmm...

    I would need a good way to attach a bladder. I could use some spectra cord and just tie it from the shoulder cross bar and drap it over the front of the pack. That seems lame for an otherwise nice little setup.

    MedicineMan, you can get spectra. Seattle Fabrics has it in blue and green. The green they have is darker than the version they had last year, it's not a bad color. The stuff they had last year was a little too bright for my tastes.

    Also I spent the weekend hiking in the rain. The umbrella kicks @ss! It's so nice to just wear a long-sleeve shirt and shorts while hiking in the rain. I always get so hot when I hike that a jacket is just a bad idea. Plus I wear glasses and I HATE when they get wet! But hats make me really hot, too.

    I got so I could whip out the umbrella from the G4 side-pocket like like a ninja whipping out his katana! I didn't have to stop walking to do it. I could put it back into the pocket without taking off the pack, too.

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gardenville


    The Frame Bruce makes is a good start, but in all frankness it just costs to much. What is needed is an External Frame that a lot of different pack bags can be used on that costs less than $$$$$$ (WHAT)?? What would be cheap enough to get hikers attention and cause them to try one. Once hooked then a logicial upgrade could be something like the Luxurylite or its follow-on model.
    I am a bit puzzled by the price reactions. Lots of packs cost $295 or more. The frame with belt and shoulder straps is $125 for the do-it-yourselfers.

    Bruce Warren

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stieg
    MedicineMan (or Bruce), I have a few more questions...

    I wonder if you could sew on little pockets on the ends of the cylinders? I like having at least a few pockets.
    >> I don't use pockets, mesh panels, etc because they add a lot of weight for very little carrying capacity. In addition, they create big stress points on the fabric and soon tear when using ultralight fabric, so more weight must to added to beef up the fabric. And they do create leaks that must be seam sealed.

    I suspect you have the urge to hang things all over your pack, as is the typical habit of hikers using 'black hole' pack systems where nothing is accessible. The LuxuryLite front pack provides instant access, while you are walking along, to camera, water, maps, etc. No pockets are needed on the rear pack. Attaching them yourself will invalidate the warranty, but you are free to do any experiments knowing that. You can hang things from the vertical frame tubes, they will never break. You can hang light things like hats, towels, socks, ice axe, etc, from the buckle straps on the back of the cylinders.

    You soon discover you can holler to a buddy behind you to reach into the "left side of the middle cylinder and grab my suntan lotion, please." And he will find it immediately and no other stuff will fall out.

    Things fall out of pockets, pockets catch on trailside snags, crud grows inside pockets... as you can probably tell, I think pack pockets are disgusting growths that despoil the true purpose of a backpack... to store all your things neatly INSIDE where they stay clean and undamaged.<<

    I am considering getting one, I'm still nervous about spending that kind of dough without trying it first. Hmmmm...
    >> All my stuff has 15 day free trail. See the home page at luxurylite.com. Just sent it back for any reason for a full refund. Weird new stuff like this pack has to have an easy way for customers to try it out without risk.<<

    I would need a good way to attach a bladder. I could use some spectra cord and just tie it from the shoulder cross bar and drap it over the front of the pack. That seems lame for an otherwise nice little setup.
    >> The front pack holds two 2-liter water bladders which really helps balance the backpack load. You can also put a bladder inside the top cylinder and run the hose out thru the Velcro down to your shoulder strap.<<
    Last edited by attroll; 05-25-2004 at 00:02.

  20. #20
    Springer-->Stony Brook Road VT MedicineMan's Avatar
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    Default the front pocket

    the front pocket works....
    when you get one do this neat experiment,,,put 2 camelbak or whatever bladders in the front pocket, get big ones like 100oz, then put on the pack without the bladders, feel the weight of the pack for a while, then remove it and put the 2 full bladders in the top cylinder, put on the pack for a while to get a feel for the weight-- you will be slumped by noticing the additional weight when you put it on.....
    next remove the pack, put the same two bladder into the front pocket, put on the pack and then put on the front pocket...you will be in for a surprise weight wise.
    last fall La Aqua Na and I did a big 16 mile push to Rice Field Shelter (SoBo to Pearisburg), a long stretch without water and knowing little water at the shelter, I carried two full 100oz Camelbaks--it sucked, but we had plenty of water for dinner and the next day. it would have been a much more pleasurable load if I had attached a large front pocket to the pack.
    Reality is that on the AT and most trails here in the east you arent going to have to carry that much water unless severe drought so I'm thinking Valcour original intent was for PCT hikers (his proving grounds I also believe) where large miles are encountered with no water at all. Regardless you will like the access to your camera.
    Also for RIB Pak users, no reason you cant use them on the LLP

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