ray way - WhiteBlaze

brack · 06-09-2004, 10:22

anyone had any experience with the ray way tent tarp kit he sells on his website? it basically looks like the golite cave and net tent for it. i was pondering buying this kit and making it myself, but was wondering about the difficulty level of the project because i dont know jack about sewing...

brack

Pencil Pusher · 06-10-2004, 08:12

I don't understand how the sewing machine gets by with just pushing the thread through, versus my neanderthal hand weave. Some of my best pack repairs have been with curved needle and dental floss.

Anyhow, I don't think it'd be too hard. Thru-hiker.com has some good tips on sewing and I'm guessing the kit will help you along quite a bit. Or, purchase a lesser kit, a cheap one, and try your hand at that to see how well (relatively) you do with sewing. Then use that as a basis for determining whether or not you'll go for the tent kit.

hungryhowie · 06-10-2004, 10:28

I wouldn't waste your time with Ray's kit. You can purchase the same materials and better quality thread elsewhere for less money and make a better-designed tarp. While Ray's backpacking designs were revolutionary ten-years ago, his focus has shifted to kayaking and skydiving, and design elements like catenary curves have revolutionized backpacking tarps once again. Making your own will allow you to customize the tarp to any desired shape, size, taper, etc.

Since you say you know little to nothing about sewing, I'd start with some stuff sacks. These are very easy to make and will familiarize you with the way that 1.1oz silnylon handles on a sewing machine. Once you've made a couple of these, you can move up to a tarp which is only more difficult because there is more matieral to deal with.

Don't buy Ray's argument about 1.1oz Seconds. He say's that the quality's not there, but I've made numorous tarps, stuff sacks, pack covers, pack liners, etc out of them and have never had a problem with using seconds (which are always cosmetic seconds anyway).

Check out www.thru-hiker.com for materials, and www.backpacking.net/bbs.html and the make gear forum for a more active forum on making your own gear.

In the meatime, if you have anymore questions about seams, catenary cuts, how attach guy-loops, or other construction or design ideas, I'll be happy to throw in my $0.02

-Howie

tlbj6142 · 06-10-2004, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by hungryhowie

better quality thread elsewhere for less money

What thread would you recommend? What's "wrong" with Ray's thread?

hungryhowie · 06-11-2004, 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlbj6142

What thread would you recommend? What's "wrong" with Ray's thread?

Everything I've read about Ray's thread says that it is messy and touchy, requiring frequent cleaning of the bobbin housing and radical tension adjustments for many home-sewing machines, and not even as strong as Gutterman. I've been using Gutterman threads for several years now and have been happy with their performance and strength, but just bought a new cone (all 5 miles of it!) of Poly Tex40 black thread with a hydrophobic finish from www.thru-hiker.com for $14. The thread is noticably stronger than the Gutterman that I used to use (and will continue to use for special colors), and runs just as clean through the machine.

-Howie

tlbj6142 · 06-11-2004, 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by hungryhowie

Everything I've read about Ray's thread says that it is messy and touchy, requiring frequent cleaning of the bobbin housing and radical tension adjustments for many home-sewing machines, and not even as strong as Gutterman. I've been using Gutterman threads for several years now and have been happy with their performance and strength, but just bought a new cone (all 5 miles of it!) of Poly Tex40 black thread with a hydrophobic finish from www.thru-hiker.com for $14. The thread is noticably stronger than the Gutterman that I used to use (and will continue to use for special colors), and runs just as clean through the machine.

My experience has been quite the opposite. I had been using Gutterman (I think it was their "Top Stitch" line) and it was nothing but a dust bunny factory. The old fat ladies (a pre-req to find employment at a sewing machine store) that run the sewing store where I bought my machine bitched up and down about the thread I was using. I had bought Gutterman because everyone "online" said it was the way to go.

So, I bought some of Ray's thread. I didn't realize that ACYE sold thread. Ray's thread does not get anywhere near as messy as what I had been using. I did make a slight change to my bobbin tension (I have one I just use for Ray's thread), but that is about it. Not sure about the strength as I've never compared it with anything else.

I can say one bad thing about his thread is that it is very springy. Which makes bobbins explode when they are near empty. And makes for winding them a bit more difficult (until the bobbin is a quarter full or more). Though I suspect this would be an issue (along with bobbin tension adjustment) with most "thicker" threads.

So, is ACYE's thread "fat"? Does it work well in home machines? I heard Tex 40 should be avoided on home machines. Or maybe that was #69?

hungryhowie · 06-14-2004, 23:46

Tex40 is fine on my 1970s Kenmore home machine. I've never tried something as thick as Tex69, but don't think that it would work with many/any home machines. The Tex40 is slightly fatter than the Gutterman that I use, but it runs fine. I'm still able to use small needles for working with sensitive fabrics and insulation.

-Howie

Rambler · 06-24-2004, 14:05

The "Ray Way Tarp Book" was published in 2003, so it is up-to-date. The directions are well diagramed and explained, giving measurements for stuff bags, too. It is especially useful, if you want to ad "beaks" to the tarp. His tarps also include lifters along the sidewalls which are very helpful in the 8 X 10 size, two-person tarps. Ed Speer's book on Hammock Camping has plans for a tarp, too. Tarps are easy to make. Just be sure to read up on the proper stitch needed for the center seam. All the books and Thru-hiker.com have explanations and diagrams. Ray's book, for example, shows a good way to add re-inforcements for the tie-outs. He also suggests putting in a loop on both ends of the ridgeline tie outs. Why? You end up with a loop on the inside of your tarp for attaching a clothes line. Another good source for tarps is oware usa My most recent tarp was one designed for my Speer hammock, but I added some of Ray's ideas, too. NB. The tarp for the hammock is hung with the seam in the width, not the length. To use the tarp solo on the ground, the seam becomes the ridgeline, so tie-outs at its ends are important. Also useful is a support patch and a light line in the center of the ridge line where one can tie in a trekking pole underneath the center of the tarp. This helps keep the roof up and the rain off. It stops the sagging-roof syndrome of stretchy nylon and avoidance of the math needed for a catenary cut! As for thread, I've used both kinds mentioned above. If you do not look for differences, you will not see them. Save a bundle, buy the miles available at thru-hiker. Even I can do the math on that one. Of course, I also do not care which model of soda can stove boils water the quickest as long as they each get that water boiling. In short, with hommade projects I ain't no perfectionist.
PS. When I said "easy", it is beacuse most of the stitching is just staight, nothing fancy. However, little problems do arise, but become easier to anticipate the more you sew. Have a seam ripper handy, mistakes are not hard to correct. Have full bobbins ready to go. That saves time when in the middle of a project. Occasionally check the thread line underneath what you see. If the thread is not correctly threaded though the top of the machine, the bottom stitching will be all bunched up. Also, be careful not to catch bundled up cloth underneath as you sew.

Rambler · 06-25-2004, 08:02

Here is what Ray says about thread: "The thread that Jenny and I use on all our sewing projects is a type of continuous fiber polyester. This thread sews better and yields more consistent seams. We like it so much we use it in the line of Ray Way Products. Medium weight 100% long-fiber polyester thread, available at sewing stores, would also suffice for these products. As a last resort one could use cotton-covered polyester thread. Nylon thread would be a poor choice, because it is less resistant to UV-b deterioration." The Ray Way Tarp Book: How to Make a Tarp and Net-Tent and use them in the Wilds AdventureLore Press, 2003, p. 113
Ray recommends metric size 80 (US 12), or size 90 (14) needles.

x2pray · 02-16-2005, 14:14

I have sewn my own Ray Way tarp using his kit and the Ray Way Tarp Book. The tarp took me about 26 hours to complete and I have never sewn anything in my life before. I had my mom help me adjust the tension on her machine and after that I was sewing non-stop. I used some cotton covered polyester thread and didn't have any problems with it. I have used the tarp once since I have sewn it and it performed wonderfully. I didn't encounter any rain, just cold temps and wind. I seamed sealed the tarp with 100% silicone that I purchased at Wal-Mart and then covered it with baby powder once it had set so that the seams didn't stick each other during folding and storage. The kit supplies you with all of the ties you need and plenty of Si-Nylon fabric. I made a bag for the tarp and a bag for the tarp stakes as shown in the book and have plenty of materials left over for other stuff sacks, mitten covers, etc. I'd say that Ray Way's tarp kit was definitely worth the money I paid for it ( I got it during Christmas using their cosmetic seconds kit). Let me know if you have any more Q's.

erichlf · 02-16-2005, 16:49

I made a Ray-Way Tarp tent, and I would have to say that there are better ones out there. This thing is quite large, and a bit on the heavy side. Yes I know it is not really that heavy, but it is havier than other designs out there. My suggestion is to do some more research. Try and design your own to fit your own needs. Get a dollar a yard material from wherever, and have at it. Just make sure you research tarp design. Get the Ray-Way tarp book from somewhere, so that you understand his designs then compare that to others. Then make a highbrid.

Nightwalker · 02-18-2005, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by brack

anyone had any experience with the ray way tent tarp kit he sells on his website? it basically looks like the golite cave and net tent for it. i was pondering buying this kit and making it myself, but was wondering about the difficulty level of the project because i dont know jack about sewing...

brack

http://tinyurl.com/5nd3n

Check out the Bilgy Tarptent at Questoutfitters.com.
1 lb 12 oz, double wall, 48 inches high, tub floor.

Pretty cool. I hope that I have time to make one.

06-09-2004, 10:22	#1
brack Registered User Join Date: 02-08-2004 Location: athens Age: 26 Posts: 38	ray way anyone had any experience with the ray way tent tarp kit he sells on his website? it basically looks like the golite cave and net tent for it. i was pondering buying this kit and making it myself, but was wondering about the difficulty level of the project because i dont know jack about sewing... brack

02-16-2005, 14:14	#10
x2pray Registered User Join Date: 02-14-2005 Location: Starkville, MS Age: 27 Posts: 4	I have sewn my own Ray Way tarp using his kit and the Ray Way Tarp Book. The tarp took me about 26 hours to complete and I have never sewn anything in my life before. I had my mom help me adjust the tension on her machine and after that I was sewing non-stop. I used some cotton covered polyester thread and didn't have any problems with it. I have used the tarp once since I have sewn it and it performed wonderfully. I didn't encounter any rain, just cold temps and wind. I seamed sealed the tarp with 100% silicone that I purchased at Wal-Mart and then covered it with baby powder once it had set so that the seams didn't stick each other during folding and storage. The kit supplies you with all of the ties you need and plenty of Si-Nylon fabric. I made a bag for the tarp and a bag for the tarp stakes as shown in the book and have plenty of materials left over for other stuff sacks, mitten covers, etc. I'd say that Ray Way's tarp kit was definitely worth the money I paid for it ( I got it during Christmas using their cosmetic seconds kit). Let me know if you have any more Q's. __________________ Brian Thompson x2pray:sun Isaiah 55:12 - For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

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06-10-2004, 08:12	#2
Pencil Pusher American Idiot Join Date: 05-27-2004 Location: Seattle, WA View my gallery 3 Age: 39 Posts: 1,056 Images: 3	I don't understand how the sewing machine gets by with just pushing the thread through, versus my neanderthal hand weave. Some of my best pack repairs have been with curved needle and dental floss. Anyhow, I don't think it'd be too hard. Thru-hiker.com has some good tips on sewing and I'm guessing the kit will help you along quite a bit. Or, purchase a lesser kit, a cheap one, and try your hand at that to see how well (relatively) you do with sewing. Then use that as a basis for determining whether or not you'll go for the tent kit.

06-10-2004, 10:28	#3
hungryhowie the new sushi Join Date: 12-15-2003 Location: AL, USA View my gallery 1 Posts: 384 Images: 1	I wouldn't waste your time with Ray's kit. You can purchase the same materials and better quality thread elsewhere for less money and make a better-designed tarp. While Ray's backpacking designs were revolutionary ten-years ago, his focus has shifted to kayaking and skydiving, and design elements like catenary curves have revolutionized backpacking tarps once again. Making your own will allow you to customize the tarp to any desired shape, size, taper, etc. Since you say you know little to nothing about sewing, I'd start with some stuff sacks. These are very easy to make and will familiarize you with the way that 1.1oz silnylon handles on a sewing machine. Once you've made a couple of these, you can move up to a tarp which is only more difficult because there is more matieral to deal with. Don't buy Ray's argument about 1.1oz Seconds. He say's that the quality's not there, but I've made numorous tarps, stuff sacks, pack covers, pack liners, etc out of them and have never had a problem with using seconds (which are always cosmetic seconds anyway). Check out www.thru-hiker.com for materials, and www.backpacking.net/bbs.html and the make gear forum for a more active forum on making your own gear. In the meatime, if you have anymore questions about seams, catenary cuts, how attach guy-loops, or other construction or design ideas, I'll be happy to throw in my $0.02 -Howie

06-14-2004, 23:46	#7
hungryhowie the new sushi Join Date: 12-15-2003 Location: AL, USA View my gallery 1 Posts: 384 Images: 1	Tex40 is fine on my 1970s Kenmore home machine. I've never tried something as thick as Tex69, but don't think that it would work with many/any home machines. The Tex40 is slightly fatter than the Gutterman that I use, but it runs fine. I'm still able to use small needles for working with sensitive fabrics and insulation. -Howie

06-24-2004, 14:05	#8
Rambler Join Date: 05-27-2003 Location: Massachusetts Age: 65 Posts: 413	The "Ray Way Tarp Book" was published in 2003, so it is up-to-date. The directions are well diagramed and explained, giving measurements for stuff bags, too. It is especially useful, if you want to ad "beaks" to the tarp. His tarps also include lifters along the sidewalls which are very helpful in the 8 X 10 size, two-person tarps. Ed Speer's book on Hammock Camping has plans for a tarp, too. Tarps are easy to make. Just be sure to read up on the proper stitch needed for the center seam. All the books and Thru-hiker.com have explanations and diagrams. Ray's book, for example, shows a good way to add re-inforcements for the tie-outs. He also suggests putting in a loop on both ends of the ridgeline tie outs. Why? You end up with a loop on the inside of your tarp for attaching a clothes line. Another good source for tarps is oware usa My most recent tarp was one designed for my Speer hammock, but I added some of Ray's ideas, too. NB. The tarp for the hammock is hung with the seam in the width, not the length. To use the tarp solo on the ground, the seam becomes the ridgeline, so tie-outs at its ends are important. Also useful is a support patch and a light line in the center of the ridge line where one can tie in a trekking pole underneath the center of the tarp. This helps keep the roof up and the rain off. It stops the sagging-roof syndrome of stretchy nylon and avoidance of the math needed for a catenary cut! As for thread, I've used both kinds mentioned above. If you do not look for differences, you will not see them. Save a bundle, buy the miles available at thru-hiker. Even I can do the math on that one. Of course, I also do not care which model of soda can stove boils water the quickest as long as they each get that water boiling. In short, with hommade projects I ain't no perfectionist. PS. When I said "easy", it is beacuse most of the stitching is just staight, nothing fancy. However, little problems do arise, but become easier to anticipate the more you sew. Have a seam ripper handy, mistakes are not hard to correct. Have full bobbins ready to go. That saves time when in the middle of a project. Occasionally check the thread line underneath what you see. If the thread is not correctly threaded though the top of the machine, the bottom stitching will be all bunched up. Also, be careful not to catch bundled up cloth underneath as you sew.

06-25-2004, 08:02	#9
Rambler Join Date: 05-27-2003 Location: Massachusetts Age: 65 Posts: 413	Here is what Ray says about thread: "The thread that Jenny and I use on all our sewing projects is a type of continuous fiber polyester. This thread sews better and yields more consistent seams. We like it so much we use it in the line of Ray Way Products. Medium weight 100% long-fiber polyester thread, available at sewing stores, would also suffice for these products. As a last resort one could use cotton-covered polyester thread. Nylon thread would be a poor choice, because it is less resistant to UV-b deterioration." The Ray Way Tarp Book: How to Make a Tarp and Net-Tent and use them in the Wilds AdventureLore Press, 2003, p. 113 Ray recommends metric size 80 (US 12), or size 90 (14) needles.

02-16-2005, 16:49	#11
erichlf Used Join Date: 02-02-2005 Location: RVA Year of thru-hike: 2010 Posts: 201	I made a Ray-Way Tarp tent, and I would have to say that there are better ones out there. This thing is quite large, and a bit on the heavy side. Yes I know it is not really that heavy, but it is havier than other designs out there. My suggestion is to do some more research. Try and design your own to fit your own needs. Get a dollar a yard material from wherever, and have at it. Just make sure you research tarp design. Get the Ray-Way tarp book from somewhere, so that you understand his designs then compare that to others. Then make a highbrid.