Differences in town people

[Pencil Pusher]

Kick the dog, okay. If it dies, too bad, so sad. But to knowingly kill the yipper?

[minnesotasmith]

A dog (or any other domestic animal) that attacks me when I have given it no reason to do so has crossed the line out of being protected by civilized rules. It has defined itself as surplus to civilization, something that has no place where humans live, and not protected in any way (by custom, law, or sentiment) from whatever harm it can be arranged for it to receive. The owner basically has an animal too many at that point, one there is no place for anywhere, and it is only justice for it to die. It's kind of like a little Jeffrey Dahmer, Osama Bin Laden, or Valerie Solanus, only a little less smart and a little less culpable; that means that just killing it as efficiently as the victim can arrange is the most appropriate response IMO. That is, its pain is neither to be sought nor sorrowed over, just removal of the threat by means as expeditious and permanent as can be arranged on the spot.

[weary]

Originally Posted by minnesotasmith

A dog (or any other domestic animal) that attacks me when I have given it no reason to do so has crossed the line out of being protected by civilized rules. It has defined itself as surplus to civilization, something that has no place where humans live, and not protected in any way (by custom, law, or sentiment) from whatever harm it can be arranged for it to receive. The owner basically has an animal too many at that point, one there is no place for anywhere, and it is only justice for it to die. It's kind of like a little Jeffrey Dahmer, Osama Bin Laden, or Valerie Solanus, only a little less smart and a little less culpable; that means that just killing it efficiently as the victim can arrange is the most appropriate response IMO. That is, its pain is neither to be sought nor sorrowed over, just removal of the threat by means as expeditious and permanent as can be arranged on the spot.

A friend of mine who was hurt in an industrial accident many years ago and now has a withered foot that the doctors say should be amputated, but he can't bring himself to have the surgery done.

Anyway, he runs a few beef cattle on his small part time farm. Income from the annual sale of a few steers and workmen's compensation keeps him alive. A few years ago he saw dogs nipping at and chasing the calves that were to be his next years income. Maine law says dogs have to be kept under the control of the owner or tied up.

After two days of watching the harassment of his crop, he got out his hunting rifle and shot the dogs. Well it turned out that the dogs were owned by a guy who had just arrived in town to supervise the construction of a replica of the norse boat being built to reenact the norseman voyage that resulted in a norse colony on newfoundland.

The shooting made all the papers. My friend was condemned in news stories and editorials in papers across the state. I finally wrote a letter to the editor saying a good word for the guy. He's a single father, who raised two sons by himself, one of whom is now chair of the town's shellfish conservation committee, and noting when a hunter killed one of his cows, he refused to post his land, "why should I punish everyone for what one jerk has done," he had explained.

Despite my best efforts, the case went to court. My friend was fined $1,500. I bought the book of the reenactment of the norseman's trip from the remainder table of a local bookstore the other day. It was interesting, but not great. My letter was mentioned a bit obliquely, something about how the shooting of his beloved dogs allegedly was treated in the local press as a joke.

weary

[minnesotasmith]

I take it you are saying you at least partially agree with my position?

I would add that if that boat construction supervisor REALLY loved his dogs, he'd have gone to the effort of tying them up.

[Pencil Pusher]

It's a double-edged sword: He's agreeing with you in concept, but showing the reality of idiots killing dogs (hint, hint). Well, dogs of an owner that gets press coverage...

[grrickar]

Back on the topic of hitching, we had trouble on our section hike hitching down from Clingman Dome. It was getting dark, and as anyone knows who has done that section the trail gets *really* close to the road. We saw a bunch of cars parked on the side of the road where a side trail joins up with the AT, then goes on to Mt. Collins Shelter. We presumed that the cars meant that local college kids were there at the shelter. Once we saw the sign for the shelter, and that it was .5 mile off the trail we decided not to stay there for the night. We walked to the road, stuck out our thumb and tried to hitch into Gatlingburg. No dice. We reentered the woods and hiked another mile, then walked to the road again. After about 15 minutes we finally got a ride with a guy from Alabama, which is where I was born and raised. He gave us a ride to the main road, where we had no problem getting a hitch into Gatlingburg for the night from a young family from Missouri.

I stood there amazed that so many pickups went by us. I guess Gatlingburg is mostly tourists, and tourists not too willing to stop and give someone a ride in the back of their truck.

[minnesotasmith]

I would be a fully intelligent person at that moment (quite apart from intelligently going about the task of killing that dog, another issue altogether). Now, someone who is being bitten by a dog, and cannot figure out that maybe killing that dog is an option, well, that doesn't sound all that intelligent to me...

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by oyvay

Southerners are definitely more polite than Yankees. I've heard more people use "sir" and "ma'am" more in the South. Most Yankees are an oxymoron of "intelligent idiots." More book learning, but incredibly stupid in the friendly areas. I'm not being prejudiced, I used to be one of the ignorant Yankees now I'm an enlightened Yankee. I like my ice tea sweet and my grits buttered with real butter.

Whooooooooeeeeeeeee, Oyvay, that's proper! I had 'ice tea' for the first time this summer in PA when I ordered it at some restaurant, and proceeded to spit it out because there's no sugar! What kinda sweet tea is that?! Seriously, though, I agree with the above. Not every American is smart, polite, or clean, but I think townspeople on the AT are a rare breed themselves, north or south. If they are aware the trail is there, which I would hope, then they interact with hikers half the year, either intentionally or not. Wouldn't that give you a bit of a difference? I'm not getting into Yankees vs Peaches, because that's something I've learned not to delve into. It was never hard for me to get a ride, so I cannot gauge friendliness by rides.

Yep, definitely more pickups, more ma'am and sir, free lemonade and moonshine in GA than ME... But as Trapper said, don't mistake politeness for kindness. Though much of my family and friends live in the south, and I have received lots of love in the south, I have seen the PURE KINDNESS of Yankees. Trail magic in the North for me included staying at a mayor's house and going to a martini bar in NY with him, staying with a family for almost a WEEK in NH and being treated like I was one of their own, going to a party in CT with a bunch of high school kids I met at the ice cream store and getting to make myself a REAL dinner, playing piano at a ladys' house for hours, getting a ride to the hospital in the middle of a terrible thunderstorm in the middle of nowhere, VT, thirty miles from where I had to go... And the grand finale: in the 100 mile, crossing the west branch of the Pleasant River ( right before the Gulf Hagas trail) my hiking partner and I were bombarded out of nowhere by PEOPLE! Lots of them! At five at night, all these teenagers are wading through the river, looking like goofs, and we plow through to the other side before they could even ask us a question. So we sit on the bench, and some adults come up and start talking to us. Turns out they're a high school group, out on an outdoor-extravaganza. Yadda yadda yadda, we're invited to dinner, it was Dingle, Coyote and I, we told stories and answered questions and hung out with a hundred high school kids and GRUBBED OUT all night long on BBQ and wonderfulness, in the wilderness, less than a week before our summit. It is one of my favourite memories, next to getting kicked out of the YMCA in Waynesboro. The Mason Dixon isn't a real line. But as soon as you cross it, you can tell. Be in the right place at the right time OR say the right things, you'll reap the rewards. Other days, you'll get a ride with a sex-crazed maniac in NY and you might have to pull your knife. Bottom line: Hospitality sometimes depends on mentality, and it's all in your head.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by minnesotasmith

I would be a fully intelligent person at that moment (quite apart from intelligently going about the task of killing that dog, another issue altogether). Now, someone who is being bitten by a dog, and cannot figure out that maybe killing that dog is an option, well, that doesn't sound all that intelligent to me...

Do you talk about anything besides dogs? You know, bear and moose are more dangerous than dogs, and those aren't ever leashed on the trail. Give it up. They're dogs, they're allowed, and you can't do anything about their behaviour.

[swamp dawg]

I was really expecting the folks in the north to be infected with a bad case of attitude. Well, I could not have been more wrong because without exception the people along the trail in the north could not have been kinder. Over the years, I have received all manner of trail magic and much needed rides to town. Very early one morning in Mass., a man came out of his house with a pan of homemade scones and insisted that we eat all we wanted-we did. The only negative is the lack of southern wine, sweet tea but you can't have everything.
Life is good on the trail... Swamp Dawg

[neo]

there are both good and bad people,north and south of the mason dixon line
neo

[Mountain Dew]

I'd trade the New Cuba oops I mean Florida to the north for a Pa. or ohhh say MAINE ....any day of the week ! Pa. has more rednecks than many Southern states do and Mainers are just down right polite !

[minnesotasmith]

Do you first tell them (when you are) you are carrying illegal drugs with you? That seems to be IMO a mandated courtesy; they should have the option to decide if your company for the evening would be worth having their vehicle/house/children confiscated by the gov't, to say nothing of losing their jobs, being put in jail, etc.

[weary]

Originally Posted by minnesotasmith

Do you first tell them (when you are) you are carrying illegal drugs with you? That seems to be IMO a mandated courtesy; they should have the option to decide if your company for the evening would be worth having their vehicle/house/children confiscated by the gov't, to say nothing of losing their jobs, being put in jail, etc.

MS, you are being paranoid again.

[minnesotasmith]

"MS, you are being paranoid again."

She is an admitted drug user, with no intention of quitting.

Too, even if the cops don't get involved, there is another risk (unacceptable IMO) to allowing a druggie into your vehicle, home, place of business, life, etc. That is that a huge percentage of them are thieves, placing satisfying their addiction above personal honor, vows, and laws. They tend to have messed-up personal lives, especially financially, so are disproportionately likely to be broke, right when they want a fix, and if they can get to your money and stuff, start kissing your stuff goodbye.

Even tobacco fume addicts can be this way; I have seen multiple smokers when broke filch money and pocket items from roommates, family members, friends, and coworkers to finance more fixes for their habit. For that reason, smokers without steady income are bad bets as associates as well. Although, since tobacco generally is considerably less expensive than most illegal drugs, and is less likely to interfere with a user's ability to work, such addicts are not as extreme of bad bets to be around. (Plus, many of them are completely inconsiderate of nonsmokers when they decide to get a fix.)

Alcohol is a special case. Most drinkers (I am one, if barely) do NOT have it interfere with their lives, managing to live honorably and productively. However, a certain percentage (I would put it around 20% at least) are full-blown addicts, and are even worse bets to be around than tobacco addicts. My method for quickly differentiating them is to a) note if they use alcohol every day that it is an option; b) they become combative at the idea of skipping drinking today, or curtailing their drinking early on a day they have already begun drinking; c) drinking is more important to them than many or most other things; d) they can't pass up free alcohol; d) basically, they have a history of alcohol usage screwing up their lives (multiple DWIs, fighting while drinking, losing jobs or relationships due to booze, etc.).

Even former drinkers can be irritating. I am virtually a nondrinker (1 glass of wine about 4x a year at dinner at my parents' or sister's only), so you would think that an ex-drinker active member of Alcoholics Anonymous would be a good match. I dated such a woman about 3 times about 10 years ago; she had not had a drink in almost 3 years. In fact, she could not go to a restaurant where other people (at other tables) had a glass of wine, watch a movie where someone took a drink, etc., without it being the focus of the evening for her. She then could talk of nothing else for an hour or more.

For all the above reasons, I have no tolerance for or desire to be around people with any chemical addiction.

[oldfivetango]

Originally Posted by minnesotasmith

I would be a fully intelligent person at that moment (quite apart from intelligently going about the task of killing that dog, another issue altogether). Now, someone who is being bitten by a dog, and cannot figure out that maybe killing that dog is an option, well, that doesn't sound all that intelligent to me...

My only question is this- how you gonna do it? In this day of political
correctness i thought we dont "pack" on the trail anymore.

I get a feeling i will be doing lots of walking into town with the stick
and spray handy for the locals and their dogs.

And one more thing- down here where i come from we shoot whatever
and whoever is eating the cows if they don't have permission to do so.
Oldfivetango

[Skyline]

I found friendly folks in all 14 states, and much goodwill toward long distance hikers. It was often, but not always, returned by hikers. Negative encounters in any state were very rare.

I had the most difficulty getting hitches in CT and MA. Once, after a bad fall when I was trying to get back over to Rt. 7 in CT (West Cornwall Rd.), it took almost two hours to get a ride. Tons of sedans, SUVs, and some pickups hit the gas when they saw me at the A.T. crossing. Finally, a pickup with CT plates occupied by a man, woman, and small child stopped. As soon as the man said hi, I understood: The Alabama accent was unmistakable. His family had recently relocated to CT.

[Lone Wolf]

The more rural and simply folks live, the friendlier they are. Ain't got nothing to do with with being from the north or south.

[MOWGLI]

Originally Posted by minnesotasmith

For all the above reasons, I have no tolerance for or desire to be around people with any chemical addiction.

Well then, that solves it! Clearly the Appalachian Trail is not for you! The combination of pot smokers and ferocious Weiner Dogs makes the AT a very inhospitable place for folks like you. Too bad. You'll be missed. (NOT)

[Tha Wookie]

I agree, generally (certainly there are exceptions in rural areas, like fanatical religious followers and crystal meth addicts).

Getting close to nature is getting close to who you really are, so it's not suprising that people feel more content and are less prone to judge and do other things that reflect their own suffering.