PDA

View Full Version : Will the next AT record holder be tall and slim like JPD and Mathew Kirk?



Kookork
12-04-2013, 20:04
I can't help noticing that both current supported and unsupported record holders of AT thru have almost the same body build. Very tall and very light and slim.

So is it fair to say that the body type of the future record holders will possibly be like JPD and MK?

Do you think that taller people have a better chance to hike faster than shorter hikers?

Hikerhead
12-04-2013, 20:29
I think it must not be much to do today way up north.

MuddyWaters
12-04-2013, 23:59
dont know.

Shorter people are known for having an apparent advantage when it comes to ultra-marathons though. I dont remember why.
Yes , I think taller people can hike faster.
But, can they hike longer? or more efficiently? that is the question.

rocketsocks
12-05-2013, 00:29
Nope, short fat bald guy 'll take it. :jump

...with a three legged dog name lucky.

atmilkman
12-05-2013, 00:32
How tall is Dakota Joe?

MuddyWaters
12-05-2013, 01:01
How tall is Dakota Joe?

Florida Department of Corrections says 5' 09"

atmilkman
12-05-2013, 01:14
Florida Department of Corrections says 5' 09"
I'll bet he can run fast.

MuddyWaters
12-05-2013, 01:18
I'll bet he can run fast.

Obviously not fast enough.

Kookork
12-05-2013, 01:19
dont know.

Shorter people are known for having an apparent advantage when it comes to ultra-marathons though. I dont remember why.
Yes , I think taller people can hike faster.
But, can they hike longer? or more efficiently? that is the question.

I think they can hike more efficiently(using less calorie per mile per pound of weight) but can they hike longer? JPD and Kirk examples shows they can.

fredmugs
12-05-2013, 09:33
I've met JPD and Anish. I'm 6' 3" and JPD is almost as tall as I am. Anish is very short. Anish is a triple crowner and an ultra marathon runner and I wouldn't bet against her if she made a run at any of the AT records.

yaduck9
12-05-2013, 12:12
I have to go with what "Gimli" has to say about this :)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4qZrPX60bw

Violent Green
12-05-2013, 14:08
I think tall folks have a big advantage if all other things are equal. 6'5", 175lbs will have thousands of fewer steps than 5'7", 175lbs without the added work of carrying more body weight. Fewer steps means less work and less wear on joints. There are a lot of other variables that could affect the outcome of a 2100 mile hike though. Careful planning and strategy is more important IMO.

Ryan

gpburdelljr
12-05-2013, 14:50
Here is what Skywalker (6'-11") has to say:

http://skywalker-pct.com/is-height-an-advantage-or-disadvantage-on-hiking-trails/

Sly
12-05-2013, 15:06
Jennifer may be tall for a woman but I don't think she's as tall 6' . Also, it's not like she hiked fast, she hiked long hours at average speed for someone in good condition. Record long distance hikes are not so much about pure speed but more about endurance and mental strength.

Slo-go'en
12-05-2013, 17:10
Record long distance hikes are not so much about pure speed but more about endurance and mental strength.

Which is why woman will likely keep the records...

Kookork
12-05-2013, 19:00
I think tall folks have a big advantage if all other things are equal. 6'5", 175lbs will have thousands of fewer steps than 5'7", 175lbs without the added work of carrying more body weight. Fewer steps means less work and less wear on joints. There are a lot of other variables that could affect the outcome of a 2100 mile hike though. Careful planning and strategy is more important IMO.

Ryan
I refer you and anybody else to the next comment(no 13). It is interesting but not completely scientific written by no other than Skywalker .

Kookork
12-05-2013, 19:07
Here is what Skywalker (6'-11") has to say:

http://skywalker-pct.com/is-height-an-advantage-or-disadvantage-on-hiking-trails/
Thank you for the great link.

What the writer does not consider about the height is that the taller person's stride is much longer while his/her strides per minute is only marginally less than shorter people so until a really scientific reasearch considers all these factors to account I am not convinced that taller people have advantage or disadvantage as skywalker is trying to say. It is more complicated than just height and weight .

Kookork
12-05-2013, 19:14
Jennifer may be tall for a woman but I don't think she's as tall 6' . Also, it's not like she hiked fast, she hiked long hours at average speed for someone in good condition. Record long distance hikes are not so much about pure speed but more about endurance and mental strength.

Absolutely true.

PS: I am not sure but I think somewhere I read that JPD is around 6'2'' or 6' 3''.

Son Driven
12-05-2013, 19:34
It took me 7 months to the day to complete my 2013 AT thru hike. I would not change a thing, if I was to do it again. If hikers want to turn the AT into a competitive conquest so be it. I prefer to savior my hikes like a fine wine, rather then slam it down like a cheap six pack, in order to obtain a buzz that will soon turn into a head ache. No rules, "hike your own hike".

canoe
12-05-2013, 23:01
I think tall folks have a big advantage if all other things are equal. 6'5", 175lbs will have thousands of fewer steps than 5'7", 175lbs without the added work of carrying more body weight. Fewer steps means less work and less wear on joints. There are a lot of other variables that could affect the outcome of a 2100 mile hike though. Careful planning and strategy is more important IMO.

Ryan Whaaaaat? which weighs more.... 5lbs of feathers or 5lbs of rocks

Dogwood
12-05-2013, 23:30
JPD is more than 6'. She's a lean 6'2." There's no questioning her endurance. I've seen her hike. Some of these record holding and speed hikers claim they don't hike fast and I will not get into a debate with them about that but hikers like Skurka, who I've also seen hike in person(when He thought no one was looking) are faster than average in regard to pace IMO. Both of them hike like they got places to go and people to see. There's definitely a competitive zone they hike in IMO. - competitive with themselves I suppose they would say. So, for them to say it's simply a matter of hiking longer hrs for them to get their mileage in is not IMHO accurate. They hike at an above avg pace, as measured against typical well into their hikes thru-hikers AND they hike long hrs. Skywalker, who immediately captured my attention for his towering height, and more so because at 6'4" myself I'm not used to looking up at other hikers, kinda rambles as a hiker but his strides are so damn long. Skywalker purses his lips sometimes when he talks and smiles like he just sucked on a lemon but he has a nice amiable nature. Bright guy as well.

Dogwood
12-05-2013, 23:37
To be a record holder or do incredible ultra endurance miles I don't think it's as important to be as tall as much as being lean. And, regardless of height or being lean it certainly helps to have the indomitable will, drive, and heart of folks like JPD and Skurka. They also aren't going out half cocked doing what they currently do.

mrcoffeect
12-06-2013, 10:57
I think body proportions have more to do with your ave hiking speed than your over all height. How much of your height is made up of torso and abdomin and how much of you is leg. Some folks have shorter torsos and longer legs than another person of equal height.

perdidochas
12-06-2013, 11:02
I can't help noticing that both current supported and unsupported record holders of AT thru have almost the same body build. Very tall and very light and slim.

So is it fair to say that the body type of the future record holders will possibly be like JPD and MK?

Do you think that taller people have a better chance to hike faster than shorter hikers?

Just a matter of physics. Look at marathon runners--same build. Tall people use less energy to cover ground.

Rolls Kanardly
12-06-2013, 11:07
Nope, short fat bald guy 'll take it.

...with a three legged dog name lucky.
So when does Lucky show up at my house. Rolls

Mobius
12-06-2013, 11:26
To be a record holder or do incredible ultra endurance miles I don't think it's as important to be as tall as much as being lean. And, regardless of height or being lean it certainly helps to have the indomitable will, drive, and heart of folks like JPD and Skurka. They also aren't going out half cocked doing what they currently do.

Expanding on this, in both cases the OP references, JPD and Matt both have rather extensive hiking resumes prior to their record setting hikes. I'd hazard a guess that being lean is a result of their activities, not a lucky happenstance. I've witnessed JPD hiking in person. She moves quick!

Mobius
12-06-2013, 11:30
Just a matter of physics. Look at marathon runners--same build. Tall people use less energy to cover ground.

Elite marathoners aren't all that tall actually. The average is about 5'8". They're quite trim and light though.

Labojo
12-06-2013, 11:34
The guy who came in 2nd place at the New York Marathon this year was 5'2"

yaduck9
12-06-2013, 11:58
I can't help noticing that both current supported and unsupported record holders of AT thru have almost the same body build. Very tall and very light and slim.

So is it fair to say that the body type of the future record holders will possibly be like JPD and MK?

Do you think that taller people have a better chance to hike faster than shorter hikers?



Here is an interesting article about marathoners that may ( or may not ) motivate you to modify your question.


"******* have particularly thin ankles and calves"

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/11/01/241895965/how-one-kenyan-tribe-produces-the-worlds-best-runners


The article talks about certain genetic traits and about the learned ability to push through pain, but it never touches on height.

So, while it is a good subject to investigate, you may be asking the wrong question. Just a thought.

Marta
12-06-2013, 12:54
I'm pretty sure JPD is my height--6'. I've looked her in the eye more than once. ;-) And that's what she gives her height at in her books.

She doesn't hike exceptionally fast. 3-3.5 mph is pretty normal for people towards the end of their first thru-hike, carrying lightweight packs.

As everyone says, lean is the key. The rule of thumb is that you gain about 2 seconds per mile in speed for every decrease of a pound of pack weight or body weight.

I don't think being tall is that much of an advantage--when I've stood near the finish line at marathons, the elite runners are usually tiny. The best climbers in cycling are little guys who weigh around 120 lbs. Strength to weight is what is important, physically.

Mentally, being smart, experienced, and tough trump everything else.

mudsocks
12-06-2013, 17:21
From Leif Carlsen's A Gang of One (http://www.amazon.com/Gang-One-Hiking-Pacific-Revised-ebook/dp/B00D4FHXNA/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386364205&sr=8-1&keywords=a+gang+of+one) 'Since my last encounter with Scott [Williamson] I had been wondering just how fast a world-class hiker hikes, so I asked him to do me a favor. "Can we hike together for 100 yards?" I asked tentatively. I asked him to set his pace no faster or slower than normal. I was afraid I would have to break into a run but it really wasn't that bad. It was certainly faster than I normally walk but I had no trouble keeping up. "The secret to hiking forty miles in a day is consistency - not speed" he told me. He said he usually on the trail by 5 AM and doesn't stop until 9 PM." ... "He allowed that he does get tired sometimes. He's actually fallen asleep while hiking and awakened on his knees!'.

Which leads me to believe it's a combination of body type, experience and mental stamina like most any other highly successful athletes.

George
12-06-2013, 20:37
the next speed record has to be someone under 5 ft and over 300 lbs

Sly
12-07-2013, 01:25
I'm pretty sure JPD is my height--6'. I've looked her in the eye more than once. ;-)


According to Jen herself she's 6' ("in stocking feet")

Also, I wouldn't compare marathoners or even ultra runners with long distance endurance hikers. The former has one race every so often, the later 35-50 miles per day on end. Obviously unique and rare.

MuddyWaters
12-07-2013, 15:40
According to Jen herself she's 6' ("in stocking feet")

Also, I wouldn't compare marathoners or even ultra runners with long distance endurance hikers. The former has one race every so often, the later 35-50 miles per day on end. Obviously unique and rare.

It is a fair comparison, because they are one and the same.
Most trail records are actually held by ultra-runners, not just "hikers".
Matt Kirk is one
Anish is one
Jen Davis has a running background as well

They have the conditioning, the physical adaptations to repeated stress on leg/ankle/foot, and the mental toughness to suceed.

Ultrarunners run, A LOT. My brother is one. He will never win a major race or anything, but he runs up to 50 mile races today, and has his goals set on 100 mile races. Runs basically every day of the week, year round, and 20-25 miles on saturdays, if not in a race, and has for years. No better way to prepare for long distance hiking.

Dogwood
12-07-2013, 21:19
I've met JPD and Anish. I'm 6' 3" and JPD is almost as tall as I am....

I'm 6'4" and when standing next to her she also seemed more than 6' but perhaps we were not standing on level ground because Malto and Sly are correct in that she says in several places she's 6'. I thought for sure I also read elsewhere that she's listed at 6'2". She's so lean maybe she seems taller. I probably was wrong about her height.

Here's what she told Runners World. http://www.runnersworld.com/trail-runner-profiles/5-minutes-jennifer-pharr-davis?page=single

Kookork
12-07-2013, 21:49
Regardless of her exact height JPD is tall and slim and so is Mathew Kirk.

I do not want to make it less incredible what record holders have done by telling they are record holders because of their physics , far from it.

What made them who they are is a mixture of Iron will, experience, physical preparation,planning and perfect execution and walking through pain, lots of pain.

For me the final answer boils down to one word , efficiency. Do relatively tall people( not extremely tall people) walk more efficient than others( less calorie burn per mile) or not?

Until a thorough research prove or disprove the matter ,I prefer to think they have no obvious advantage or disadvantage over shorter hikers.

Violent Green
12-08-2013, 16:24
Whaaaaat? which weighs more.... 5lbs of feathers or 5lbs of rocks

Canoe,

The point of my post is that someone tall, with THE SAME WEIGHT as someone shorter has an advantage due to their longer stride. The same weight is important because it means they are burning essentially the same calories to move down the trail as the shorter person, yet they are covering more distance per step. Which is the thesis of Skywalker's article by the way. But, like I said before, there are several other factors at play, and height doesn't automatically make you a runner or hiker.

Also, it's tough to say "Well, most ultrarunners & marathon winners are short and therefore height has no advantage." Keep in mind, only 14% of Americans are over 6 feet and only about 3% are taller than 6'3". So yeah, statistically speaking shorter folks will win more marathons. Ideally, you want long legs for your height, such as 6ft tall with a 36" inseam. You get the advantage of the legs without the usual weight penalty that comes with it.

Ryan

Pedaling Fool
02-08-2014, 11:10
It's one thing to complete a thru-hike, but quite another to complete it under pressure. It's nice if one has all the physical attributes (whatever that is), but I wonder how many who have those attributes just can't make it due to the lack of mental focus/fortitude, as we all know is crucial. This article addresses that somewhat, it's concerning primarily Olympians, but I'm sure there is a lot of crossover to people that try and beat the clock on the trail. http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/02/how-olympians-stay-motivated/283643/

Interesting Excerpt:

"A 2009 Boston Globe article about a school for Olympic snowboarders described a typical day as (http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/magazine/articles/2009/12/13/how_to_make_an_olympic_snowbaorder/?page=full), "up at dawn, stretch, watch video of the previous day, hit the slopes till lunch, go to class, do more conditioning, eat dinner, and then go to study hall for an hour and a half. At most, they get about an hour of “free time” a day, but it’s usually used for homework."

With schedules like that, some of the most successful athletes aren’t necessarily the strongest or fastest, but simply the ones who are best at staying motivated.

“A lot of times before you physically give out, you give out mentally,” said Thomas Hong, a high-school student and speed skater who placed 11th at the Olympic trials this year. “You know you're going to be sore for a while, you know how bad it's going to hurt you.”




BTW, there's a video in the link of Dorthy Hamill and figure skating; I never knew figure eights are so technical.

Pedaling Fool
03-14-2014, 09:06
The next AT record holder will need to suck in a lot of Xenon gas!

Very interesting story: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/02/26/russia_xenon_officials_say_nothing_wrong_if_olympi c_athletes_used_performanc.html

Excerpt:

"Russian officials aren't saying that their athletes used a controversial—although not technically illegal—performance-enhancing substance at this year's Olympics. But they're also not saying that they didn't. Or, in the words of Vladimir Uiba, the head of Russia's Federal Biomedical Agency, there would be "nothing wrong" if they did.

"We use what is not illegal, is not destructive and does not have side effects," he said Wednesday in the first public comments (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gg59u3IRPHvfYbZo-7pMZFpy3rCg?docId=d8f01fcd-2358-4f46-af7e-13d11497c483&hl=en) offered by a Russian official on the matter since reports began to surface about the use of the gas xenon by Olympic athletes.

For those of us whose AP Chemistry and Biology days are a distant memory, xenon is a colorless, odorless noble gas that makes up only about 0.000009 percent of the atmosphere. But while it may be relatively scarce in nature, if consolidated in larger quantities it has the potential to produce a bounty of benefits for the human body. Most notably for athletes: It spurs the production of Erythropoietin, aka EPO, the red-blood-cell-boosting hormone that improves physical performance and that has long been coveted by world-class endurance athletes looking for an extra edge in competition. "

dmax
03-14-2014, 09:22
Maybe Speedgoat will give that stuff a try on his attempt this year. Looks like he is going to give the record a try by going SOBO.