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pipsissewa
12-09-2013, 08:57
Does anyone know how well an air horn would deter a bear encounter versus bear spray? I'm interested in an air horn as an alternative to bear spray for several reasons:

1. It's easier to obtain and travel with.

2. There's no chance of it leaking and ruining gear.

3. It seems that it would be more effective from farther away. I don't relish the idea of waiting for a charging bear to get within 15 feet of me before spraying! And I probably would not be able to do it! I'd panic--run, spray too early, etc.

4. It seems that it would deter "two-legged" aggressors as well.

Anyone have any experience using an air horn?

juma
12-09-2013, 09:04
Probably work. But too heavy:)

I carry a couple of cherry bomb size firecrackers in a Baggie with matches as a lighter approach.

anyplace where bears are hunted, they will avoid you. If you are someplace with no bear hunting, bears may come pretty close. My experience is a lot loud noise will move them along. There is always the exception though.

pipsissewa
12-09-2013, 09:09
Not sure it's any heavier than bear spray. I forgot to mention: CHEAP!!

See Here: Air Horn (http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_12107_-1__?N=635908471&affcode=42&kwid=ps_cse&cid=PLA%7CGoogle&gclid=COLIjd-ao7sCFW0V7AoddBcA1w)

4eyedbuzzard
12-09-2013, 09:21
Air horns work well on boats and as gags at parties.
If a bear really wants to attack, kill, and/or eat you, an air horn isn't going to stop it. Bear spray will give you the best chance of surviving an attack.
NPS and USFS rangers and people who frequent bear country, especially out west, carry bear spray - not air horns. Think there's a reason?

Starchild
12-09-2013, 09:37
Air horns work well on boats and as gags at parties.
If a bear really wants to attack, kill, and/or eat you, an air horn isn't going to stop it. Bear spray will give you the best chance of surviving an attack.
NPS and USFS rangers and people who frequent bear country, especially out west, carry bear spray - not air horns. Think there's a reason?

Reason because that's what everyone else does? I have seen a TV show where they relocated a bear and used a air horn to get it moving away from the release point.

The only thing that comes to mind is it may be taken as a challenge. Animals make noise to challenge each other, to let the other know how big and bad you are. Sounds like it would work unless the bear wants to challenge you on it to see if you are really as big and bad as you sound. With the spray at least you can demonstrate you have some ability to put a hurt on a bear.

Nyte
12-09-2013, 09:41
I have seen more than a few recommendations from outfitters concerning using air horns to scare off a bear. Not sure how well it would work for a Grizzly, but yeah. The idea being it's a loud, sudden noise that they are not acclimated to. Also, first blast will startle them, and they will probably run 10-30 feet, stop and look around for the source. Sound it again at that point and it *should* scare them off. If they are in areas where they get car horns blared at them a lot, probably won't do nearly so well.

hikerboy57
12-09-2013, 09:52
Air horns work well on boats and as gags at parties.
If a bear really wants to attack, kill, and/or eat you, an air horn isn't going to stop it. Bear spray will give you the best chance of surviving an attack.
NPS and USFS rangers and people who frequent bear country, especially out west, carry bear spray - not air horns. Think there's a reason?
they never thought of it?

moldy
12-09-2013, 09:52
It won't work any better than yelling. Especially in the "threatened bear" mode. It will just get him more excited. It might work on the "hungry bear", but not so much for the "starving bear".

4eyedbuzzard
12-09-2013, 09:54
For those who might be considering an air horn as a substitute for bear spray. Let's get a mean rogue male eastern black bear looking at you as prey, and you have the choice of an air horn or a canister of bear spray. Which one do you choose?

hikerboy57
12-09-2013, 10:02
For those who might be considering an air horn as a substitute for bear spray. Let's get a mean rogue male eastern black bear looking at you as prey, and you have the choice of an air horn or a canister of bear spray. Which one do you choose?
bear bells.
cmon, really?mean rogue male eastern black bear?
at liberty springs this summer, a bear went into a hikers tent and took his food, with the camper in the tent at the time. he was unhurt, but i wonder if an airhorn would have been enough to scare the bear away? bear spray in a tent wouldnt have been a good idea.

HikerMom58
12-09-2013, 10:13
I've heard firecrackers work pretty good too.

Kookork
12-09-2013, 10:17
Change the label of an air horn with a bear spray. This way the bear thinks you are carrying a bear spray and would avoid you!!!:)

bfayer
12-09-2013, 22:30
I've heard firecrackers work pretty good too.

I hear the firecracker thing fairly often too, but think about it; If you have time to get out firecrackers, get out a lighter, light them and throw them, then I can say almost for certain that the bear was not a threat to begin with.

leaftye
12-10-2013, 01:23
For those who might be considering an air horn as a substitute for bear spray. Let's get a mean rogue male eastern black bear looking at you as prey, and you have the choice of an air horn or a canister of bear spray. Which one do you choose?

Well, one is a food product, basically.

Dogwood
12-10-2013, 03:17
I don't know if an air horn will work to scare off a bear but it certainly got me a boat ride over to Whitehouse Landing for some resupply.

pipsissewa
12-10-2013, 07:09
Well, one is a food product, basically.


I think that's a cream horn you're thinking of! ;)

daddytwosticks
12-10-2013, 08:12
As others have mentioned, I've been carrying firecrackers for years and have never been harassed by bears. I too question how quickly I'd be able to get them deployed. I would probably use them around camp when a problem bear wouldn't leave and needed coaxing. Not as a self defense weapon such as bear spray. However, in my own warped mind, I'm convinced bears know I carry a couple of "black cat" firecrackers and give me a wide berth. :)

leaftye
12-10-2013, 09:23
I think that's a cream horn you're thinking of! ;)

That's a spicy cream!

Starchild
12-10-2013, 09:26
The more I thought about this the worse the idea seems. The only type of bear you will need to deter with bear spray will be the type of bear that challenges your air horn.

In other words the bear that will run from the air horn will not mess with you anyway.

hikerboy57
12-10-2013, 10:02
not too many challenges over the years.a corkscrew is equally effective.

fiddlehead
12-10-2013, 11:30
I can see the OP's point as I've had a griz encounter where the wind was blowing from him to me (no chance of him smelling me) and he was busy rolling over logs looking for food.
He was a good 300 yards away but I wanted to let him know I was nearby.
I ended up just running up the mountain and over the pass and down the other side instead.
If i would've had a loud firecracker or airhorn, I would have used it.
But, who wants to carry extra weight.
I wouldn't go without bear spray in griz ccountry.
That stuff works!

hikerboy57
12-10-2013, 11:43
i think using an airhorn in griz country would be akin to ringing the dinner bell.

leaftye
12-10-2013, 11:57
i think using an airhorn in griz country would be akin to ringing the dinner bell.

Make that a fill in the blank.

perdidochas
12-10-2013, 12:05
Does anyone know how well an air horn would deter a bear encounter versus bear spray? I'm interested in an air horn as an alternative to bear spray for several reasons:

1. It's easier to obtain and travel with.

2. There's no chance of it leaking and ruining gear.

3. It seems that it would be more effective from farther away. I don't relish the idea of waiting for a charging bear to get within 15 feet of me before spraying! And I probably would not be able to do it! I'd panic--run, spray too early, etc.

4. It seems that it would deter "two-legged" aggressors as well.

Anyone have any experience using an air horn?

1. True.
2. True
3. Most bear spray is effective to at least 20 ft.
4. Bear spray will as well.

The NPS rangers who regularly work with bears advise using bear spray.

leaftye
12-10-2013, 12:08
Using bear spray on a human can be illegal though.

Deer Hunter
12-10-2013, 12:32
Depending on the brand of spray, you may not have to wait til the bear is right on top of you to spray. The idea is to put out a "fog" that he will run into(If you didn't already know that). You have to keep the wind direction in mind to so you don't incapacitate yourself instead of the bear. The air horn could also double as a signaling device in case of emergencies, too. Just food for thought.

perdidochas
12-10-2013, 12:45
Using bear spray on a human can be illegal though.

If I ever had a valid reason to use bear spray on a human, legality would be the least of my worries. My life or my family's lives would be my worry.

4eyedbuzzard
12-10-2013, 12:56
If I ever had a valid reason to use bear spray on a human, legality would be the least of my worries. My life or my family's lives would be my worry.
That's why you probably should carry a dinner bell as well - get rid of the evid--remai--er, ah, leave no trace.

fredmugs
12-10-2013, 13:55
I used to carry a whistle until someone showed my ignorant @$$ that my pack had a whistle built into it.

Slo-go'en
12-10-2013, 14:21
Whistles are not recommend as they sound a lot like Marmmets, something grizz's like to eat. Of course the feds don't recommend air horns, but my understanding is that they are effective.

pipsissewa
12-10-2013, 14:44
1. True.
2. True
3. Most bear spray is effective to at least 20 ft.
4. Bear spray will as well.

The NPS rangers who regularly work with bears advise using bear spray.


Re: #3: The air horn can be heard up to a mile away (on flat land). But, I see a lot of good points made here. I'm not suggesting an air horn would replace bear spray in all situations (and NEVER in grizzly country!) It just seems like a less confrontational deterrent that would startle a bear and send him running in the other direction IN MOST CASES. I think if you ever encountered a bear that wasn't startled off by the loud noise, you'd be in a tiny tiny minority. Again, I'm talking black bears, not grizzlies.

We've encountered three bears this summer alone (that's #7, 8 and 9 for me lifetime) and they were all startled by our presence and took off as soon as they became aware of us. I'm not too worried about actually protecting myself physically from a bear. That would be so unusual that it's really not something to dwell on.

We do carry bear spray. Am I going to replace it with an air horn? No, but it's a 49%-51% type deal. Some day I may say to myself, "Dang, I wish I had an air horn". You just never know.

I wouldn't hesitate to use bear spray if someone threatened me or Cat Daddy. Write me a ticket.

Very interesting conversation, though.

bfayer
12-10-2013, 15:51
Bears have pretty good hearing, a good whistle is much lighter than an air horn, and almost as loud. Much easier to keep ready too. I can't imagine any situation where a air horn would do something a whistle would not do. I can imagine lots of situations where neither would do anything more than I could accomplish by just yelling and banging my poles.

A Fox 40 whistle is about 105 -120 db. A pocket air horn is around 110 -120 db. I carry a whistle anyway.

leaftye
12-10-2013, 16:07
If I ever had a valid reason to use bear spray on a human, legality would be the least of my worries. My life or my family's lives would be my worry.

But chances are you could prevent that valid reason from happening if you could have used an air horn before things escalated. Humans, like grizzlies, tend not to like it when they get more attention from greater numbers of humans.

bfayer
12-10-2013, 16:30
But chances are you could prevent that valid reason from happening if you could have used an air horn before things escalated. Humans, like grizzlies, tend not to like it when they get more attention from greater numbers of humans.

I know of no man bent on harming another that would be scared off by an air horn.

People that break into cars don't even care about car alarms. Why would someone that was trying to hurt or kill you be worried about an air horn?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

leaftye
12-10-2013, 16:43
I know of no man bent on harming another that would be scared off by an air horn.

People that break into cars don't even care about car alarms. Why would someone that was trying to hurt or kill you be worried about an air horn?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

Perhaps you should get to know more men. People that break into cars most definitely care about confrontation and witnesses, both of which there would be plenty of if you start using an air horn. Would you tell a woman not to scream for help or activate the panic feature of her car alarm if she feared being raped? Most people wouldn't because they know that attracting attention is a great way to stop a bad situation. They also know it's not the sound that's scary, it's the potential to bring help that's scary to those that mean to cause harm.

Theosus
12-10-2013, 19:03
If I was going to carry something big and heavy and loud to deter bears, it would be a Smith and Wesson 500. As it stands, however, I'll take my chances.

I know there are bear encounters sometimes, but have bears killed, maimed, or severely injured AT hikers in the past ten years or so? I wonder what the bear stats really are for the trail...

bfayer
12-10-2013, 19:10
Whistles are not recommend as they sound a lot like Marmmets, something grizz's like to eat. Of course the feds don't recommend air horns, but my understanding is that they are effective.

AT forum, no grizs's or marmots except in zoos in theses parts. The only thing a noise making device will do with a black bear is let them know a disagreeable human is nearby. What the device is or the sound it makes is pretty much irrelevant from a black bears preservative.

bfayer
12-10-2013, 19:38
Perhaps you should get to know more men. People that break into cars most definitely care about confrontation and witnesses, both of which there would be plenty of if you start using an air horn. Would you tell a woman not to scream for help or activate the panic feature of her car alarm if she feared being raped? Most people wouldn't because they know that attracting attention is a great way to stop a bad situation. They also know it's not the sound that's scary, it's the potential to bring help that's scary to those that mean to cause harm.

Perhaps you need to know more men that actually hurt other people and steal their stuff. Where I grew up the only thing an air horn would do is give the bad guy another thing to hit you with, and I didn't even grow up on the tough side of town. In a professional capacity I have spent years dealing with folks that would not think twice about the noise an air horn or any other alarm, the crime is done and they are gone before any one even cares about the noise of an alarm. As for a woman being raped, of course she should scream and hit her panic alarm, but if that is all she does it will not turn out well.

The idea that making loud noises will protect you and your family from bad people is very wrong.

As for bears, like I said anything that lets them know you are an annoying human will do the same as an air horn.

Sarcasm the elf
12-10-2013, 20:49
Average number of people who die of heart attacks in the US annually: approx. 250,000
Average number of fatalities due to car crashes in the US annually: 30,000-32,000.
Average number of fatalities due to black bears in the US annually: less than 1
Source: http://bit.ly/19g0NCI

I might add a couple of baby aspirin to my first aid kit and I'll wear my seatbelt on the ride to the trailhead, but no, i wont be worrying about defending myself against black bears on the A.T.

If you're really worried about bears then pack a digital camera, bears seem to run like heck whenever they see one of thise things.:cool:

Coffee
12-10-2013, 21:01
For some reason, fear of bears is just part of the American culture. Deeply embedded. I was showing pictures of a recent trip to my six year old nephew over Thanksgiving weekend and he kept talking about how I might get eaten by bears someday.

HikerMom58
12-10-2013, 22:42
I haven't heard of any bear attacks rather plenty of encounters with bears -up close and personal! No thanks! :eek:

Wise Old Owl
12-10-2013, 22:42
You might as well wear bacon around your neck.... Come on folks - Bear Spray and guns are are tested and tested again... if you go into bear country and in my mind I am talking Grizzly - not AT (I don't need it for the AT) Don't go around recommending stuff that hasn't been tested.... Don't use products that they are not intended for use. And above all the label is the law.

For those with asthma, taking other drugs, or subject to restraining techniques that restrict the breathing passages, there is a risk of death. The Los Angeles Times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Times) reported in 1995 at least 61 deaths associated with police use of pepper spray since 1990 in the USA. The American Civil Liberties Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union) (ACLU) documented 27 people in police custody who died after exposure to pepper spray in California since 1993. However, the ACLU report counts any death occurring within hours of exposure to pepper spray. In all 27 cases, the coroners' report listed other factors as the primary cause of death, though in some cases the use of pepper spray may have been a contributing factor.


From another blog....

I happened to mention pepper spray when I was talking to a security guard at my school and he explained to me that it was illegal to carry it. I then said "well, it is for protection", and he again explained that that is exactly why it is illegal. Because it is a form of protections against humans.

To answer your question bear/dog pepper spray works as well as the more common one to scare someone away, but it has no lasting damage.

You can legally carry bear/dog pepper spray around but you might want to know about a few legal issues that could come up if you used it on a human.
First, you would have to prove in court that you somehow felt the need to carry dog/bear spray around. Now, the best way to prove this is if you had bears or violent dogs in your area.
Secondly, you could be charged with weapon possession. Countries/states that don't allow pepper spray consider it a weapon. (Don't know about NY but can you believe the jail time in Canada for having harming a human with animal products is up to 3 years?)


Label :
It is a violation to use this product inconsistent with its labeling
PRECAUTIONARY STATEMENTS

HAZARDS TO HUMANS & DOMESTIC ANIMALS
DANGER:

May cause irreversible physical eye damage if sprayed in
the eye. Contact through touching or rubbing eyes may result in
substantial but temporary eye injury. Avoid contact with skin or
clothing. Wash thoroughly with soap and water after handling.
Remove contaminated clothing and wash clothing before reuse

Wise Old Owl
12-10-2013, 22:56
The best answer to the original question

http://hikinginthesmokys.blogspot.com/2011/01/air-horns-as-bear-deterrents-revisited.html

MuddyWaters
12-10-2013, 23:18
Black bears are incredible creatures and you should welcome every opportunity to observe them.
They arent a threat to you, they might want your food.
Think of them as a really big raccoon, and you are on the right track.

Night Train
12-10-2013, 23:18
For an Eastern black bear, give a couple barks like a dog and they'll high tail it out of the area. Works every time.

Dogwood
12-10-2013, 23:22
Pipsissewa(Chimaphila umbellate), love the smell.:D

magic_game03
12-10-2013, 23:26
Wow, a lot of bad advice in this post except the last one from W.O.O. First of all bears on the east coast act very differently then they do in the Rockies. Unless you are interfering with a feeding bear or a sow with her cubs you have very little to worry about here on the east coast. While there have been recordings of some very sizable black bears up toward PA (nearly 1,000 lbs) they are still very timid creatures on the east coast. In the Rockies it's a whole different story. People who carry bear spray holster it like a pistol and practice drawing it like a gun slinger for a reason! If you are planning to use fire crackers, then you are somebody who is just looking to scare bears away from your camp but you would have no chance at defending yourself in a true bear attack. Same with the air horn. Almost every ranger I talked to out in the rockies had a personal account of somebody they know who had been attacked. Every time, the account happened in the blink of an eye. Also, almost every account that I heard included contact with the bear, literally the bear and the person tussled for a short period of time while the person spraying the bear just kept releasing the spray trigger. When you spray-you empty the can!

I'm kinda laughing on the inside thinking of somebody who carried an air horn, had it holstered like a pistol, and in the moment of an attack drew it and started blasting. But, the bear doesn't stop because it's already on the person and it starts to chew… and the person with the air horn thinks to him/herself, 'wow, this wasn't such a great idea after all.'

There is so much more to say about bear spray but I'm going to leave it at that.

Dogwood
12-11-2013, 00:11
After literally 100's of personal black and brown bear encounters, it is overwhelmingly evident to me the MOST EFFECTIVE thing I had to avoid negative human/bear encounters was the knowledge between my ears AND using it wisely. By ME, being mindful of my human behavior AND how it factors into human/bear encounters, I'm able to avoid more than 90% of what is viewed by humans as negative encounters with bears. SOME, maybe MANY, humans though want to arrogantly skip amassing that knowledge and wisdom that could be applied to avoid negative bear encounters.

Dogwood
12-11-2013, 04:59
The greatest threats to all arise from the darkness that occurs from the lethal combination of unwarranted fear and ignorance.

leaftye
12-11-2013, 06:11
Perhaps you need to know more men that actually hurt other people and steal their stuff. Where I grew up the only thing an air horn would do is give the bad guy another thing to hit you with, and I didn't even grow up on the tough side of town. In a professional capacity I have spent years dealing with folks that would not think twice about the noise an air horn or any other alarm, the crime is done and they are gone before any one even cares about the noise of an alarm. As for a woman being raped, of course she should scream and hit her panic alarm, but if that is all she does it will not turn out well.

The idea that making loud noises will protect you and your family from bad people is very wrong.

We're going to have to agree to disagree, especially given "I didn't even grow up on the tough side of town", but you're wrong. It doesn't help that you go on to say:


As for bears, like I said anything that lets them know you are an annoying human will do the same as an air horn.

We yell and bang things together to make it audibly apparent to bears that we don't want them around. If bears are not responding to you, you're doing it wrong. Guess what, an air horn does the same thing, but louder. Is it 100%? Nope, never said it was, but neither is shooting a bear.

HikerMom58
12-11-2013, 09:57
After literally 100's of personal black and brown bear encounters, it is overwhelmingly evident to me the MOST EFFECTIVE thing I had to avoid negative human/bear encounters was the knowledge between my ears AND using it wisely. By ME, being mindful of my human behavior AND how it factors into human/bear encounters, I'm able to avoid more than 90% of what is viewed by humans as negative encounters with bears. SOME, maybe MANY, humans though want to arrogantly skip amassing that knowledge and wisdom that could be applied to avoid negative bear encounters.

Go for it Dogwood! :D

Traffic Jam
12-11-2013, 11:07
This is what I follow: A bear on the trail has the right of way. Unless the bear is charging or being a nuisance at a shelter, you're not supposed to deliberately scare it away by air horns, spray, yelling, whatever. You should observe from a distance and wait until it's moved on, or find an alternate route. In most cases, the bear knew you were coming and skedaddled before you knew the bear was there. If the bear is being aggressive, make noise, then throw rocks, then get ready to fight (in that order). Just my 2 cents.

Rocket Jones
12-11-2013, 11:14
I think this thread could be combined with "Can I use my stove in a motel room?" to make the "Can I use my stove and/or air horn in a motel room?" ;)

perdidochas
12-11-2013, 11:22
But chances are you could prevent that valid reason from happening if you could have used an air horn before things escalated. Humans, like grizzlies, tend not to like it when they get more attention from greater numbers of humans.

In the middle of the woods (i.e. the only time I would have bear spray)?

Kerosene
12-11-2013, 11:47
For an Eastern black bear, give a couple barks like a dog and they'll high tail it out of the area. Works every time.That was the advice given to me by a shuttler when I did the Smokies a in October 2012. I can tell you that it didn't phase the bear much, but I must've looked and sounded like a fool.

hikingshoes
12-11-2013, 11:57
To me this is one of those HYOH thing. I've never took any type of spray nor air horn . I've come across two black bears since I started back backpacking. One was as I had just crossed over Fontana Dam right as I was getting off the black top. Second was my last section to finish the GA. Section . Both times I was solo hiking and both times once I was seen all I seen was there rear end .

kythruhiker
12-11-2013, 13:23
Average number of people who die of heart attacks in the US annually: approx. 250,000


Any statistics on the average number of people who die of heart attacks from hearing an air horn in the woods?

I'm throwing it out there to Karma....if a bear decides to come in the tent with me, and he's not offended by the smell, then I guess I'm his evening snack, there are worse ways to go.

Coffee
12-11-2013, 13:32
This is what I follow: A bear on the trail has the right of way. Unless the bear is charging or being a nuisance at a shelter, you're not supposed to deliberately scare it away by air horns, spray, yelling, whatever. You should observe from a distance and wait until it's moved on, or find an alternate route. In most cases, the bear knew you were coming and skedaddled before you knew the bear was there. If the bear is being aggressive, make noise, then throw rocks, then get ready to fight (in that order). Just my 2 cents.

I follow this practice on the trail but would not in my camp, although I have never had a bear approach my camp. If in camp, I would first make sure that the bear knows that I'm there. If it knows that I'm there and doesn't run away, I would try to scare it off. I don't think it is a good thing for a bear to hand around my campsite without any fear. That's one step removed from approaching me in camp while I'm cooking and trying to beg for food.

(I have no idea how I would deal with grizzly (brown) bears. That's a bridge I'll cross if I ever hike the CDT, if so many years from now).

HikerMom58
12-11-2013, 13:33
Any statistics on the average number of people who die of heart attacks from hearing an air horn in the woods?

I'm throwing it out there to Karma....if a bear decides to come in the tent with me, and he's not offended by the smell, then I guess I'm his evening snack, there are worse ways to go.

Ha Ha!! This is really funny kythruhiker! :D

I read about a section hiker that had a half-eaten peppermint patty in his tent pocket. The bear was trying to get in the tent for the candy. The hiker said the bear's head was the size of a basketball.. he ended up yelling and kicking the bear in the head. It ran away...:p

4eyedbuzzard
12-11-2013, 14:38
We all know black bear attacks in the east are VERY rare. But unfortunately they have happened. Sometimes it has been a momma bear w/cubs, sometimes a starving bear, sometimes a rogue male (more often in Canada). But bluff charges do happen more frequently. Most of the time the bear does exactly that - it bluffs. But you have absolutely no way of knowing if a charge is a bluff or you are doomed. Hopefully I'll never experience either.
I've been closer than I like to bears three times - and pretty much $#!t my pants each time.
One was a curious bear right at my tent door GSMNP 1970's, he ran off when I unzipped the door to see what was making noise. People heard the commotion and asked me how big he was. I told them at least 12 feet tall and 1000 lbs - because when you are face to face with, as someone here put it, a basketball size bear head, they look huge (and smell). It was really more like 250-300lbs, and it was probably as scared as I was.
Another time a curious but quite hungry and determined small bear at Rutherford shelter in NJ 1980's didn't charge but kept circling and closing in on me at the shelter and would not take banging of pots, yelling, etc as a "No" - that one got the food I had out which I had to abandon. After tearing it apart and eating, it left. As did I.
The third was a big black bear (400+) at a campground near Moosilauke in 2001. Big ass bear. Came within about 30 feet of me. I backed away and retreated down the trail (not the AT) and didn't see it again.
I don't think I'd carry spray on the AT, or an air horn, or an Ursak (you, your pack, the clothes you cook and eat in, cooking gear, and everything positively reek of human and human food to a bear even miles away anyway). I'd just use common sense and use boxes and hang food (including toothpaste and cookware and such) where necessary.

scope
12-11-2013, 15:55
I don't know of ANY attacks on hikers (since we're in a general AT forum). Therefore, I've got a pretty educated guess about whether a charge is a bluff or I'm doomed... which doesn't mean I'm returning the favor to the bear, no sir. But it does mean that the need to fend off an attack is at the very least unprecedented in terms of an ordinary, not messin' with Sasquatch, AT hiker, day hiker, or camper who takes care of his food in the outdoors. So, no bear spray for me thank you.

Now, I can tell you having come across a bear while he was feeding, who didn't run when I pulled out my camera (see below) and was big enough for me to realize my station in life, I can see the value in a device that produces a loud sound that "might" at least give the bear pause from charging AND alert others nearby of your distress. I'd only use it when actually threatened as opposed to the feeling of having a threat. I wouldn't want to carry the standard size can, but if there was a small can the size of bear spray, I might rather have an air horn than just a whistle - which I already have - just because it IS an intimidating, not natural sound. Doesn't mean it would fend off an attack, but again, I'm going with the educated guess on that.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=46594&catid=member&imageuser=8174

The bear I saw did finally amble away. A great experience, and a humbling one. When you realize that something of that size could do what they wanted to with you, it does make you think of what your needs would be in an attack, and honestly, bear spray didn't come to mind. I upgraded my knife, but its still a small one. I think more for than anything, something to ward off a charge, or startle a bear sniffing around camp, is probably more warranted than bear spray.

p.s. makes me wonder how effective these sprays for training dogs might be; they just spray air, and its not all that loud, but something about it really makes them stop what they're doing and pay attention. Just a thought, and they do come in small, lightweight cannisters.

Traffic Jam
12-11-2013, 16:11
2 bear deaths in the Smokeys...a woman out fishing and a young child with her (his?) family. Several unsolved disappearances...a high school student on a field trip and a young child playing hide & seek at Spence Field (I think) Shelter. I don't have the info for maulings but I know of several in the last few years.

It happens but rarely. I figure my chance of getting killed in a car wreck far outnumbers my chance of getting eaten by a bear yet I still drive a car.

scope
12-11-2013, 16:28
There are issues, and the instances you mention are related to those specific issues. An AT hiker in my opinion doesn't need bear spray. If I'm camping in the smokies with my child, I'm giving my child bear spray AND staying close to them. The maulings I know of involve food in a tent - a startled bear swinging away at what moves. There are issues. Its just that for the sake of discussion of an air horn as deterrent, and the fact that its an AT forum, I don't find any of the above instances relevant, OTHER THAN if they had an air horn, there's a fair liklihood that the bears would be scared off, or else help might've arrived more quickly.

Traffic Jam
12-11-2013, 16:46
I believe knowledge is power. Knowing the stats and the likelihood of a bear attack allows a person to make rational decisions...such as whether one needs to carry an air horn or not.

edited to add; the boy who disappeared was on the AT (not meaning to sound snarky) :)

Colter
12-12-2013, 10:59
The odds of being killed by a bear are very, very, very low. About 1 out of 314,000,000 people in the U.S. are killed by a bear per year. About 2,500,000 people die of other causes. People are more dangerous than bears, even on a per capita basis (http://bucktrack.blogspot.com/2011/02/bears-should-you-be-afraid.html).

Looking at real-world stats, bears are one of the last things people should worry about on the A.T.

As far as whether air horns would work, I suspect they would spook bears sometimes.

Kc Fiedler
12-15-2013, 20:27
Air horns work well on boats and as gags at parties.
If a bear really wants to attack, kill, and/or eat you, an air horn isn't going to stop it. Bear spray will give you the best chance of surviving an attack.
NPS and USFS rangers and people who frequent bear country, especially out west, carry bear spray - not air horns. Think there's a reason?

This pretty much sums up what I was going to say. There's a reason bear spray is sold and not bear horns. But feel free to be the first to test the bear horn. Let us know how it works.

Biggie Master
12-15-2013, 21:21
I've watched enough UFC and MMA events, that I refuse to assume the role of prey in a man vs animal encounter. I've "possum stomped" my share of wildlife, and walked away unscathed. Even Ellie Mae took down a "Baer" with skilled wrestling moves, proof that it can be done!

So, for the serious response... I carry nothing to defend against or deter bears, or any other wildlife. I try to exercise "common sense" practices. FYI - common sense would not include possum stomping a bear of any size or species.

kythruhiker
12-15-2013, 21:28
At least, after the bears consume a few hikers with horns, from a distance we'll be able to answer the age old question of does a bear poop in the woods. <aooooogah>

johnnybgood
12-15-2013, 22:24
For the record, I've only heard of a bear false charging someone and that was in Dolly Sods, W.Va. and you can guess the motive.
Frying fish in the backcountry isn't such a great idea on the surface to begin, so don't be surprised when a bear shows up for dinner. A little common sense goes a long way in detering any bear attack or in this case a close call.
I don't carry anything to deter against an encounter except just that, a little common sense. A whistle is even lighter yet to carry than an air horn and be attached to a shoulder strap .

Dogwood
12-16-2013, 04:02
http://bucktrack.blogspot.com/2011/02/bears-should-you-be-afraid.html

I hate to see people's lives crippled by fear based on ignorance. - Colter

Me too! Some folks habit's, like the adoption of a fear based system, aren't easily let go of though. You don't need an air horn or bear spray on the AT. What you need is some wisdom. If so concerned about getting seriously injured on the AT be mindful of your footing and pay attention at road crossings. You'll vastly more decrease your odds of injury doing those two things alone compared to the risks associated with injury from bears on the AT.

4eyedbuzzard
12-16-2013, 07:27
The most dangerous things on the AT are slippery rocks and roots, ticks, and people.

Dogwood
12-16-2013, 17:21
Presently awaiting the next bear fear thread and posts. Turn off the TV!

hikerboy57
12-16-2013, 17:24
just a reminder the kind folks at white house landing will not pick you up if you blow the horn more than once.

bfayer
12-16-2013, 17:25
just a reminder the kind folks at white house landing will not pick you up if you blow the horn more than once.

What do you do if a bear shows up right after you blow the horn to get picked up? :confused:

hikerboy57
12-16-2013, 17:26
What do you do if a bear shows up right after you blow the horn to get picked up? :confused:
the kind folks at white house landing have no restriction on bear spray

Sidewinder
12-16-2013, 19:31
learn to yell like chewbacca, bears will tuck their little tails and warn others of their kind of the big bad scary people in the woods

Wise Old Owl
12-16-2013, 21:53
http://bucktrack.blogspot.com/2011/02/bears-should-you-be-afraid.html

I hate to see people's lives crippled by fear based on ignorance. - Colter

Me too! Some folks habit's, like the adoption of a fear based system, aren't easily let go of though. You don't need an air horn or bear spray on the AT. What you need is some wisdom. If so concerned about getting seriously injured on the AT be mindful of your footing and pay attention at road crossings. You'll vastly more decrease your odds of injury doing those two things alone compared to the risks associated with injury from bears on the AT.
Kudo's on the internet - folks type form their deepest darkest thoughts....


The most dangerous things on the AT are slippery rocks and roots, ticks, and people.


Uh yea how about hanging with a bunch of strangers in a shelter? Folks are more afraid to sleep alone.... ...so People,Ticks, and Roots.:cool:

Sidewinder
12-16-2013, 22:00
OH YOU'VE NEVER SEEN WHAT AIR leaking out of an air can and what a mess it makes of gear, very awful bad

HikerMom58
12-16-2013, 22:01
Kudo's on the internet - folks type form their deepest darkest thoughts....




Uh yea how about hanging with a bunch of strangers in a shelter? Folks are more afraid to sleep alone.... ...so People,Ticks, and Roots.:cool:

That's when I'd feel the most "alone"... hiking and sleeping with a bunch of strangers. lol. I do believe ticks are a big danger.

Don't worry about the roots and slippery rocks, they just gave me a shiner. :D

Dogwood
12-16-2013, 22:16
What do you do if a bear shows up right after you blow the horn to get picked up? :confused:
Take one small step backwards as you push you hiking buddy forward. If the bear goes for you time to swim. The folks at Whitehouse Landing have told me a couple of impatient hikers have swum there from the dock.

flemdawg1
12-17-2013, 17:31
You're much more likely to die from ticks and bees. Don't let fear pack your pack.

bfayer
12-17-2013, 18:15
Take one small step backwards as you push you hiking buddy forward. If the bear goes for you time to swim...

When I was up in Alaska we had a saying: Never hike alone in bear country and always carry a big stick :)

scope
12-18-2013, 13:38
The greatest threats to all arise from the darkness that occurs from the lethal combination of unwarranted fear and ignorance.


I believe knowledge is power. Knowing the stats and the likelihood of a bear attack allows a person to make rational decisions...such as whether one needs to carry an air horn or not.

edited to add; the boy who disappeared was on the AT (not meaning to sound snarky) :)


The odds of being killed by a bear are very, very, very low. About 1 out of 314,000,000 people in the U.S. are killed by a bear per year....

And the predominant portion of the "very, very, very low" odds are out west. Basically, its not happening in the east. Clearly there are issues, and it could be that sometimes you'll come upon a situational "issue" where perhaps an airhorn would be enough to deter a charge, or scare a bear away from camp. The facts bear out (sorry :) ) that bears don't "attack" in the east, and therefore, since bear spray is to be used for a close range actual attack, I fail to see its validity on the trail OTHER than for personal comfort. But hey, people carry guns for that reason, so why not bear spray, right?

As for the previous two posts quoted, therein lies the problem as I see it. Knowledge is power, but facts are sometimes mistaken for knowledge, and used incorrectly, can lead to unwarranted fear and ignorance. What is a more appropriate understanding of the facts, is that we should not fear attacks, but get a better idea for ourselves of what some situational issues can be, and avoid them.

It's one of the reasons I gave up carrying those sweet little, packable, lots of protein envelopes of tuna fish on the trail.

scope
12-18-2013, 13:47
just a reminder the kind folks at white house landing will not pick you up if you blow the horn more than once.

So remember, ya'll, everyone must gather at the same time and blow their horns at once only one time.