Hypothermia

[squeezebox]

I would like some info about hypothermia. I've been reading trail journals lately. A couple that I read got themselves dangerously close to hypothermia. They did not get hurt but got too close to it. Not to mention the recent 3 hikers in the Smokies. So what are some of the issues.
Wet and sweaty
Wet stream accident
hydration
food intake
clothing issues
tent , sleeping bag
anything else ?

Seems like there's not a simple answer.
It's -8* here in St. Louis, It's real scary thinking about getting stuck outside and not being able to fix it. I'm not ready to die yet.

[hikerboy57]

heres an excellent article that runs through a lot of useful information:http://www.outdoors.org/recreation/hiking/hiking-hypothermia.cfm

[tiptoe]

Another "issue" is that it doesn't have to be super cold, especially if you have a tendency to cool down quickly after exertion. I do, and I'm always careful to put on extra clothing (or get out of wet stuff) as soon as possible after I stop moving. It has happened to me with wet weather and temps in the 50s.

[squeezebox]

All of that is pretty much common sense stuff. A good reason to not hike alone in bad weather.

[bigcranky]

I think the worst time for hiking hypothermia is when temps are in the 30s or 40s, especially if it's damp. Extertion, sweat, lack of food and water are all factors. When it's *really* cold people are thinking about it, but heavy exertion and wet clothing in chilly weather is dangerous too.

Keep an eye out for the "umbles" -- stumbling, bumbling, and mumbling. I know things are getting close to the edge when I have a hard time using my fingers, or when I start tripping on flat ground. That's when a hiker needs some help -- a hot drink, dry clothing, etc., and we shouldn't be shy about providing that help.

[illabelle]

I try to avoid sweating. When that's actually possible (in cold weather), I try to dress light while hiking. When we stop for lunch or to set up camp, I put on the down jacket immediately.
Problem is, once I get in dry clothes and crawl into my sleeping bag, I'm cold and it doesn't go away. I bring my down jacket in my sleeping bag with me, and anything else that will help with insulation, but I lay there shivering, usually for quite a while. Even after I get somewhat warm, if I slip my hand under my clothing and feel my buttocks and thighs, they are COLD. It takes a long time to fully warm up.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm doing something stupid. Am I already in a danger zone of hypothermia when I lie down?

[4eyedbuzzard]

I try to avoid sweating. When that's actually possible (in cold weather), I try to dress light while hiking. When we stop for lunch or to set up camp, I put on the down jacket immediately.
Problem is, once I get in dry clothes and crawl into my sleeping bag, I'm cold and it doesn't go away. I bring my down jacket in my sleeping bag with me, and anything else that will help with insulation, but I lay there shivering, usually for quite a while. Even after I get somewhat warm, if I slip my hand under my clothing and feel my buttocks and thighs, they are COLD. It takes a long time to fully warm up.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm doing something stupid. Am I already in a danger zone of hypothermia when I lie down?As you are probably aware, the shivering and gradual warming up is good and means your body is producing heat even though you may have mild hypothermia at that point. When you are so cold you stop shivering you are getting into deep do-do. Cold buttocks and thighs are somewhat normal as your body is diverting blood to core internal organs and away from extremities, and especially if one has any, um, extra padding (fatty tissue has very few blood vessels). You may be getting too cooled down towards the end of your hike. Perhaps try hiking the last mile or so with your jacket on, drink a hot beverage, wear a hat, fill a container with hot water to bring in your sleeping bag, etc. But you probably knew a lot of this already, right?

[hikerboy57]

I try to avoid sweating. When that's actually possible (in cold weather), I try to dress light while hiking. When we stop for lunch or to set up camp, I put on the down jacket immediately.
Problem is, once I get in dry clothes and crawl into my sleeping bag, I'm cold and it doesn't go away. I bring my down jacket in my sleeping bag with me, and anything else that will help with insulation, but I lay there shivering, usually for quite a while. Even after I get somewhat warm, if I slip my hand under my clothing and feel my buttocks and thighs, they are COLD. It takes a long time to fully warm up.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm doing something stupid. Am I already in a danger zone of hypothermia when I lie down?


As you are probably aware, the shivering and gradual warming up is good and means your body is producing heat even though you may have mild hypothermia at that point. When you are so cold you stop shivering you are getting into deep do-do. Cold buttocks and thighs are somewhat normal as your body is diverting blood to core internal organs and away from extremities, and especially if one has any, um, extra padding (fatty tissue has very few blood vessels). You may be getting too cooled down towards the end of your hike. Perhaps try hiking the last mile or so with your jacket on, drink a hot beverage, wear a hat, fill a container with hot water to bring in your sleeping bag, etc. But you probably knew a lot of this already, right?

also, make sure you're getting enough liquids during the day. its very easy to become dehydrated in the cold, as most people usually dont drink enough water in winter. the cold dry air will suck moisture out of you while yuou breathe.snacking during the day is also key to keeping your core with fuel to fire the furnace.

[leaftye]

I think the worst time for hiking hypothermia is when temps are in the 30s or 40s, especially if it's damp. Extertion, sweat, lack of food and water are all factors. When it's *really* cold people are thinking about it, but heavy exertion and wet clothing in chilly weather is dangerous too.

Keep an eye out for the "umbles" -- stumbling, bumbling, and mumbling. I know things are getting close to the edge when I have a hard time using my fingers, or when I start tripping on flat ground. That's when a hiker needs some help -- a hot drink, dry clothing, etc., and we shouldn't be shy about providing that help.

It's good to have signs to watch for like you do. It can be very difficult to recognize and actually make adjustments, especially when it means adjusting your schedule.

I've allowed myself to get too cold while hiking a few times. Usually it's due to low energy. I get myself into situations where I feel the need to push harder, but in doing so I put aside eating, which causes me to get cold when my energy levels crash. This winter I want to experiment with using vapor barriers in inclement weather while hiking hard. Ideally it should allow me to wear some insulation without soaking it in sweat. At some point I want to try it with a Klymit inflatable vest too. I've already used it to great effect while sleeping.

[Malto]

It's good to have signs to watch for like you do. It can be very difficult to recognize and actually make adjustments, especially when it means adjusting your schedule.

I've allowed myself to get too cold while hiking a few times. Usually it's due to low energy. I get myself into situations where I feel the need to push harder, but in doing so I put aside eating, which causes me to get cold when my energy levels crash. This winter I want to experiment with using vapor barriers in inclement weather while hiking hard. Ideally it should allow me to wear some insulation without soaking it in sweat. At some point I want to try it with a Klymit inflatable vest too. I've already used it to great effect while sleeping.

I believe you will sweat if hiking hard in vbl in all but the coldest temperatures, as in sub zero. I rarely have had to wear anything other than light base layer and windshirt down to about 20 degrees. Even then I have to vent on uphills to prevent sweating. Please post what you find, I am a huge proponent of VBL (for sleeping)

[rocketsocks]

I try to avoid sweating. When that's actually possible (in cold weather), I try to dress light while hiking. When we stop for lunch or to set up camp, I put on the down jacket immediately.
Problem is, once I get in dry clothes and crawl into my sleeping bag, I'm cold and it doesn't go away. I bring my down jacket in my sleeping bag with me, and anything else that will help with insulation, but I lay there shivering, usually for quite a while. Even after I get somewhat warm, if I slip my hand under my clothing and feel my buttocks and thighs, they are COLD. It takes a long time to fully warm up.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm doing something stupid. Am I already in a danger zone of hypothermia when I lie down?Maybe try some leg lifts while in your bag. lying flat raise your legs about 4" and hold do this for a few mins and it should engage your core muscles and produce some heat. Don't forget to eat a little something before retiring, maybe even a very short brisk walk (No sweating) right be getting into your bag.

[Traffic Jam]

I try to avoid sweating. When that's actually possible (in cold weather), I try to dress light while hiking. When we stop for lunch or to set up camp, I put on the down jacket immediately.
Problem is, once I get in dry clothes and crawl into my sleeping bag, I'm cold and it doesn't go away. I bring my down jacket in my sleeping bag with me, and anything else that will help with insulation, but I lay there shivering, usually for quite a while. Even after I get somewhat warm, if I slip my hand under my clothing and feel my buttocks and thighs, they are COLD. It takes a long time to fully warm up.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm doing something stupid. Am I already in a danger zone of hypothermia when I lie down?

I have the same problem. We were discussing this in another forum and it was suggested that I use a bivy which I'm considering. I'm also considering getting a bag rated below what I'd actually need.

[SawnieRobertson]

I had an incident recently in which I had excellent reason to believe I had gone hypothermic in my own -51 degree bedroom overnight. I happen to have very low +/- temperature not infrequenty. It goes with hypothyroidism. I shiver to think of the many nights that I have lay, shivering hard, in my tent even through summer nights. The night I speak of, however, was earlier this month. I was astonished. (When living alone, one must realize that there is no one who might come upon one, notice the mumbles, shivering, and irrational decisions.) Thinking it over, I realized how many times I have read that an elderly perSon (YOU KNOW HOW I HATE THAT WORD.) succumbed to hypothermia at night at home. I just had to accept that that impossibility might actually be possible. My solution: drink a hot cup or two of Sleepytime tea just before going to bed~~and closing the windows.

[aficion]

If your bag, pad, and shelter are not enough to warm you up after a warm meal you probably need to build a fire and do jumping jacks. If it is raining this will be difficult but not impossible if you have a tarp. I would leave my pad, bag, tent, hammock, sleeping bag, and backpack at home before I would leave my tarp.

[HikerMom58]

I was surprised how cold I got after I stopped hiking for lunch during a rain storm in August. I was beginning to shiver and shake by the time I was finished with my lunch. I was happy to get moving again. :) If you run out of dry clothes in the woods, that is a scary thing.

If someone is really showing signs of hypothermia, I heard the best thing to do is to get naked with another warmer naked person in a sleeping bag. Hikers are good at watching out for each other that way! So i've heard....

[4eyedbuzzard]

I was surprised how cold I got after I stopped hiking for lunch during a rain storm in August. I was beginning to shiver and shake by the time I was finished with my lunch. I was happy to get moving again. :) If you run out of dry clothes in the woods, that is a scary thing.

If someone is really showing signs of hypothermia, I heard the best thing to do is to get naked with another warmer naked person in a sleeping bag. Hikers are good at watching out for each other that way! So i've heard....Yeah, with my luck I'd run into a freezing John Goodman, not Kate Upton . . .

[Papa D]

i have dabbled and danced with hypothermia quite a bit.

Mostly, hypothermia happens when it's unexpected like in the summer -in July - when you are hiking in the woods and a big rainstorm hits - you are unprepared, your core gets wet and cold and the temps drop to the 50s - that pretty much does it and so hypothermia happens often when you least expect it.

Ok, that said, I have been hypothermic in winter - then it's harder to deal with. Here are my experiences:

1) Winter night, Joyce Kilmer Memorial Forest - January, 2007 - snow, wind, ice, temp was -2 to -5 plus windchill - could not keep decent campfire going and I have every trick in the book - hot water bottles in sleeping bags - all the tricks. My friend Alana had told me she had a 0 bag but it was more like a 20 - I had to share warmth - - pretty sketchy night - we made a big pot of mac and cheese that froze before we finished it. Liquor froze - seriously. I thought she might die - I was ok - - in the morning things were better and we hiked down and out. We got a cabin near the NOC - the pipes were all frozen so it was nearly free but we made a better fire and slept.

2) winter night - camping in Arapaho Basin ski area parking lot with my wife - - coldest she had ever been - shaking all night - we were in 0 bags too. I guess it was -10 or more with howling wind

3) The coldest most miserable night ever was in Joyce Kilmer (again) looking for a lost hiker - Stretch - who thru hiked in '08 and just did the PCT - but this was when he was 15 - - we never found him but he made it out ok - we suffered through an awful night - me, Crusty, and his dog Laurel in the same tent.

I've been a lot colder than these instances (backcountry trekking in Canada, etc) but these instances are more memorable - - mainly due to the unexpected cold.

Be safe

[HikerMom58]

Yeah, with my luck I'd run into a freezing John Goodman, not Kate Upton . . .

Ha Ha!! What could I give you if you know who max patch would like to find hypothermic on the trail? I know, I'll give you a dancing banana if you answer correctly! :D

I'm so cold now just talking about this subject... it's cold in VA right now. Brrr..... I just read Papa D's comment.. brrr....

[Malto]

I was surprised how cold I got after I stopped hiking for lunch during a rain storm in August. I was beginning to shiver and shake by the time I was finished with my lunch. I was happy to get moving again. :) If you run out of dry clothes in the woods, that is a scary thing.

If someone is really showing signs of hypothermia, I heard the best thing to do is to get naked with another warmer naked person in a sleeping bag. Hikers are good at watching out for each other that way! So i've heard....

There is something to be said for eating on the move in situations like this.

[wishbone]

I don't often have the opportunity to hike in winter any longer (distance from trail head), but in my earlier cold weather over-night trips if I was feeling a bit cold I would fill a water bottle with hot water and stick in my bag with me. This would be just the trick to warm me up and lull me to sleep. The other up-side would be you'd at least have one bottle of water (not frozen) to get started the next morning. As has been mentioned hypothermia is often experienced when you least expect it, temps in the 40's & even 50's. Don't be fooled it can catch the most experienced hikers. Thunderstorms in the summer causing you to get soaked at the end of a hard days hike is ideal hypothermic situation.

[HikerMom58]

There is something to be said for eating on the move in situations like this.

I agree!! :)


I don't often have the opportunity to hike in winter any longer (distance from trail head), but in my earlier cold weather over-night trips if I was feeling a bit cold I would fill a water bottle with hot water and stick in my bag with me. This would be just the trick to warm me up and lull me to sleep. The other up-side would be you'd at least have one bottle of water (not frozen) to get started the next morning. As has been mentioned hypothermia is often experienced when you least expect it, temps in the 40's & even 50's. Don't be fooled it can catch the most experienced hikers. Thunderstorms in the summer causing you to get soaked at the end of a hard days hike is ideal hypothermic situation.


True dat!! :)

[kayak karl]

in the winter you should always carry extra food and gear rated for the season. not some makeshift system you put together that you think will work. if you are getting wet, cool and tired make decisions then. i have made camp early many times. two times got in hammock and stayed for 36 hours. no extra trail miles are worth your safety. i think people get in trouble with this "i got to make it at all costs" attitude. im not talking trail head, but the hiking PLAN they made. this attributes to other injuries also.

[daddytwosticks]

Coldest I've ever been...early June afternoon at Wayah Bald Shelter during a thunderstorm. Caught a chill and couldn't warm up. I didn't have lots of insulation (going ultralight and it was summer, right?). Made a warm drink and kept active in the empty shelter. The rain stopped and the sun came out. All was well. :)

[illabelle]

As you are probably aware, the shivering and gradual warming up is good and means your body is producing heat even though you may have mild hypothermia at that point. When you are so cold you stop shivering you are getting into deep do-do. Cold buttocks and thighs are somewhat normal as your body is diverting blood to core internal organs and away from extremities, and especially if one has any, um, extra padding (fatty tissue has very few blood vessels). You may be getting too cooled down towards the end of your hike. Perhaps try hiking the last mile or so with your jacket on, drink a hot beverage, wear a hat, fill a container with hot water to bring in your sleeping bag, etc. But you probably knew a lot of this already, right?

I wonder if maybe my problem is that we stop hiking and set up camp. The minimal amount of moving around required for me to fix our supper isn't enough to keep my body from cooling off, even with the down jacket on. A few times we have stopped for supper, then continued on for a bit before setting up the tent. Maybe we should do that more often, and see if it doesn't help me sleep warmer. Or alternatively, just go for a quick walk or whatever before lying down.

Thanks for the feedback.

[scope]

I wonder if maybe my problem is that we stop hiking and set up camp. The minimal amount of moving around required for me to fix our supper isn't enough to keep my body from cooling off, even with the down jacket on. A few times we have stopped for supper, then continued on for a bit before setting up the tent. Maybe we should do that more often, and see if it doesn't help me sleep warmer. Or alternatively, just go for a quick walk or whatever before lying down.

Thanks for the feedback.

That would work for sure. Might consider what your down jacket is not covering, too. When you do crawl in the bags, do something to generate some heat as that is the only way the bag truly insulates you. Whether its jumping jacks or a hot water bottle, a little heat generated at first will help your body give off some heat and then the bag traps it and starts keeping you warmer. Otherwise, your body is starting to reduce circulation at the surface and limbs in order to conserve heat so that you don't give off enough to effectively produce what you need for insulation.

Think about a cooler... its airspace that insulates, but only from heat transfer, either into the cooler or out if trying to keep hot things warm. If you're not all that hot, the airspace in the down is not doing much in terms of heat transfer. Yeah, its working because there's a big difference between your temperature and the outside temperature, but keep in mind that you only need to lose a few degrees from 98.6 to be shivering cold. Hypothermia actually starts when your body temp reaches 95. Point is, the bag mostly keeps you above hypothermia level, but unless you stoke your body heat to inject that warmth into the down, then you're not getting what you're supposed to out of the bag (or quilt).

I don't think enough folks understand this about their gear. I didn't when I first started. After a very cold night in a zero degree bag when it was 20 out, I began to wonder "what the heck?" One thing I did wrong at that time is that I wore too much inside the bag, with that extra clothing acting as a barrier to my body heat transferring into the down insulation. Also, its very difficult for your limbs to generate enough heat to effectively keep them warm, plus your feet don't fit in a bag the same way your torso does - and as a result, they typically don't get down right on them (nor do we typically like a bag so tight at the feet that down would be right on them). Down booties work wonders as the insulation is right on the skin where effective transfer of heat to the down can take place. Keep your feet, hands, and head warm, and the rest is a lot easier.

[Traffic Jam]

I wonder if maybe my problem is that we stop hiking and set up camp. The minimal amount of moving around required for me to fix our supper isn't enough to keep my body from cooling off, even with the down jacket on. A few times we have stopped for supper, then continued on for a bit before setting up the tent. Maybe we should do that more often, and see if it doesn't help me sleep warmer. Or alternatively, just go for a quick walk or whatever before lying down.

Thanks for the feedback.

I've been reading a lot of stuff about estrogen and temp control. You know the dreaded hot flashes? Well, cold intolerance can also be a problem for perimenopausal, menopausal, or any woman with out-of-whack hormones. I found this article interesting http://io9.com/why-do-womens-bodies-run-colder-than-mens-836827770

[Son Driven]

I would like some info about hypothermia. I've been reading trail journals lately. A couple that I read got themselves dangerously close to hypothermia. They did not get hurt but got too close to it. Not to mention the recent 3 hikers in the Smokies. So what are some of the issues.
Wet and sweaty
Wet stream accident
hydration
food intake
clothing issues
tent , sleeping bag
anything else ?

Seems like there's not a simple answer.
It's -8* here in St. Louis, It's real scary thinking about getting stuck outside and not being able to fix it. I'm not ready to die yet.

3/6/13 Sun was setting as I arrived to the Springer mountain parking lot. Because of the cold temperatures 6 deg., I decide to go down hill to Stover Creek rather the up hill to Springer mountain for my first night on the trail. Whenever I fell asleep, I would wake up shivering, after shivering for several minutes, my body would warm to a place where I could nod off. I decided to roll over and try and sleep on my stomach. It helped some since I was able to better insulate my body organs from the cold. I still woke up several times to the shivering shakes. Being from Minnesota I had been through hypothermia before, and I knew what was happening, and knew what I was doing. However I did not have enough gear, or respect for the North GA mountains. At first light I hiked up to Springer, back to Stover and called it the first day. In retrospect I should have got up, got my food down from the cables, and night hiked until the first light. Once you start shaking, it is better to keep moving then shaking, you are burning energy, and calories either way.

[GreatDane]

Best book I've read on the subject is "Secrets of Warmth for Comfort and Survival" by Hal Weiss. It was old when I read it, and may not be in print anymore, but it explains how we lose heat and how to stop it. Despite the advances in technical fabrics, the science of heat loss and prevention hasn't changed. Think I might pull it out again tonight.

[handlebar]

Keeping properly nourished and hydrated while hiking in winter or in cold rain is important. You might not feel thirsty or hungry, but be sure to eat and drink water just the same. I ignored this regimen and wound up shivering as our campfire waned and the wind at my back took out more heat than my body was adding from the fire. I had to excuse myself and jump into my zero degree bag. It took a while, but I eventually warmed up.

[Snowleopard]

The Old Fhart has an excellent article on hypothermia here on WB: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php?199-Hypothermia Everyone should read and reread this article.

Keeping properly nourished and hydrated while hiking in winter or in cold rain is important. You might not feel thirsty or hungry, but be sure to eat and drink water just the same. ...
Absolutely correct! You should stay well hydrated and well fed in the cold. The AMC winter hiking/backpacking courses say you should be eating and drinking constantly in the cold.

Eating a candy bar and exercising (jumping jacks, etc.) immediately before getting into your bag might be what the OP needs to do. Also, use a hot water bottle (Nalgene bottle filled with hot water insulated with an old sock so you don't burn yourself).

[illabelle]

I've been reading a lot of stuff about estrogen and temp control. You know the dreaded hot flashes? Well, cold intolerance can also be a problem for perimenopausal, menopausal, or any woman with out-of-whack hormones. I found this article interesting http://io9.com/why-do-womens-bodies-run-colder-than-mens-836827770

That's an interesting article, TJ.
If I forget to take my hormones, all I have to do is think about a hot flash and I'll have one, or so it seems. Doesn't work when I'm cold in the tent though. Go figure.
Several people have also mentioned the importance of eating/drinking enough in the cold. I really need to pay more attention to this. I'm definitely not drinking enough.

[scope]

...I'm definitely not drinking enough.

Always have a big flask... oh, wait, you meant water didn't you? ;)

[peakbagger]

I got nailed with mild hypothermia in a rain storm in NH in the summer long ago. Had a rain coat but mostly cotton on. We hiked over Mt Carrigan in a heavy rain storm with a stiff wind. We made it over the top and was coming down before we both started shivering and luckilly made it to a flat spot big enough to set up a tarp. We got in our bags with whatever dry clothes we had and I cooked everything hot I could to warm up. It took a couple of hours to really get warm and we eventually even started a fire after the front pulled through.
I am surprised we made it down as generally the first thing to get impacted is common sense.

[illabelle]

Always have a big flask... oh, wait, you meant water didn't you? ;)

Oh, I did set myself up for that one, didn't I! :o

[hikerboy57]

Oh, I did set myself up for that one, didn't I! :o
drinking alcohol is not a good idea. you'll lose heat faster.

[Spirit Walker]

For me hypothermia has hit me a few times when hiking in an all day rain. It has happened in midsummer in Colorado and Montana, in fall in New York and in N.C. in the spring. I have yet to find a backpacking rain jacket that truly keeps me dry. Either I sweat or I get wet with rain. I am mostly okay while hiking, but as soon as I stop to set up the tent, my core temperature drops and I have a hard time getting warm again. Changing into dry clothes immediately helps, if I have the ability to function well enough to do that. I've gotten the hypothermia stupids, a time or two, where I knew what I had to do, but couldn't translate the thought into action. Fortunately, I don't hike alone any more. I've been so cold I couldn't use my hands to put the tent up, and lost the ability to get my clothes out of my pack. Shivering in a sleeping bag usually doesn't warm me up, even with my husband beside me. I need food, and preferably hot food, to get warm again. On one of my AT hikes, there was a very light mist that became a light rain. By the time I knew I needed to put on my rain jacket, my hands wouldn't work well enough to take my pack off. I kept hiking as hard as I could until I found someone to help me with the buckle. I remember hearing about one AT hiker who came into a shelter in the Smokies and was quieter than usual. She sat on a bunk, not moving, and the first thing anyone knew something was wrong was when she passed out.

[Del Q]

I learned the hard way, "It's easier to stay warm than get warm",

Agree 100% on proper hydration.

The issue is when you stop hiking, for breaks or at the end of the day.............get water, if bear bagging have it hung, then get into your sleeping bag, eat and drink and eat and drink.

DON'T GET COLD.

If in wet or damp clothes, obviously change out as soon as possible.

[Slo-go'en]

Don't be fooled it can catch the most experienced hikers. Thunderstorms in the summer causing you to get soaked at the end of a hard days hike is ideal hypothermic situation.

Been there done that. The closest I've gotten to hypothermia complete with chattering teeth was standing around trying to wait for a July Thunderstorm to pass so we could continue up onto some exposed ledges.

The most important thing is to realise when you need to get moving again or when you need to stop and make a hot drink or when to set up a shelter, get dry and make some hot drinks and food. At least one packet of hot coco is in my food bag year round.