View Full Version : 3 day/2 night loop out of Bryson City area
ATL Backpacker
01-08-2014, 23:05
Planning a long wkd trip in the Smokies next month. Looking closely at the Deep Creek or Road to Nowhere area as I can get there the easiest/quickest and there appear to be good loop options.
Deep Creek
Day 1 - Deep Creek trail to cs 58 or 57
Day 2- Martin's Gap to Sunkota Ridge up to Newton Bald and cs 52 for the night
Day 3 - Thomas Divide back down to Deep Creek (looks like TD ends at dirt road which goes back to campground?)
Anyone ever done this loop before? Campsite preferences 58 vs 57? Is Newton Bald anything special (I think it's no longer a true bald but maybe there are winter views?)
Road to Nowhere
Day 1 - lakeshore trail through the tunnel then up Bear Creek trail to cs 75
Day 2 - continue Bear Creek to up Welch Ridge then down Jonas Creek to cs 70
Day 3 - Forney Creek to Whiteoak to Lakeshore and back out the tunnel
I've never hiked this area except short day hike on Goldmine Loop. so I'm not at all familiar with this area.
Any thoughts, preferences or things to keep in mind on these 2 trips? Or other recommended loop(s) in this area? I tend to hike fast in order to spend some QT in camp so good campsites are always appreciated.
Many thanks!
HooKooDooKu
01-09-2014, 00:35
Deep Creek Loop:
I would suggest camp site 58 over 57 simply because 58 gets less use (the Brown Book describes 58 as "good tent sites, near creek".
Newton Bald is no bald. It is now a part of a mature forest. Don't expect any better views at 52 than you would expect anywhere else. However, I can say that I personally love the Newton Bald campsite. One of the tent sites sits on top of a little hill above the surrounding trail. The spring at the camp site is amazing... its a short distance down the hill and you will wonder where is the water coming from (because there isn't much hillside above the spring). It's also some of the cleanest water I've ever experienced. I was filtering water there with a new silt-stopper prefilter, and the prefilter didn't have ANYTHING in it. The dirt road at the end of Thomas Divide Trail actually goes all the way through (i.e. while the trail map shows it ending at the park boundary, it actually leads to a road that makes for a short cut to get to Deep Creek if you're coming from Cherokee). Because the road has several blind curves, I would suggest that you stay in the woods and take the intersection with Deeplow and return via Indian Creek Trail.
Road to Nowhere:
I've hiked UP Jonas Creek from campsite 70 and it kicked my butt. So don't underestimate Bear Creek (but I've never hiked that, so I can't offer any insight there). That also looks like you're putting in a lot of miles on day two. An alternate loop in the area is hiking up Noland Creek to 64 the 1st day then over to 71 for the 2nd day. However, camp site 70 is a nicer campsite than 71.
Nice run down by HKDK on the Newton Bald info. Try to nab that shweet campsite up on that little hill. It's the nicest one on Newton Bald.
Looks like you have some up and down to do either loop. Keep an eye on up to date weather reports that's applicable to GSMNP at the elev your likely to camp for either hike. It will be FEB = COLD.
Some more good info much better than I could provide will be offered shortly. HKDK has obviously spent time on those trails(me too but mine is very limited) but so have TN Viking(*I think he's a GSMNP 900 miler-has done EVERY GSMNP mile of every GSMNP trail), Sgt Rock knows his way around that area too, and watch for Ox97GaMe's comments(he works in GSMNP doing trail maintenance). All solid info about hiking in GSMNP I've received from these in the know nice helpful folks.
Yes HooKooDooKu is the expert here, but I did hike up Bear creek and you'll be happy when you reach CS 75. It breaks up the uphill nicely into two days. The trail is pretty much straight up the entire time with little relief from the uphills, but it isn't terribly long so breaking it into two days helps. Welch ridge was pretty overgrown when we got there, but it does level off - as much as any trail in smokies is level - compared to Bear Creek.
ATL Backpacker
01-10-2014, 10:15
Thanks for the heads up on Bear Creek. Looks like the grade steepens quite a bit after leaving 75. That would be a tough 3 miles to start an already longish day. We may opt for the shorter more moderate Deep Creek loop. Newton Bald sounds like a nice spot.
yeah......after 75, the "real" part of the uphill of bear creek starts......
and agree with CS 52.......no views, but still a nice campsite up high....
and yes, Thomas divide trail ends at a road, which will lead you into the campsite after about a touch over a mile of a walk (off the top of my head)....
and I also kinda prefer 58 over 57 but either are nice........from memory 57 I believe is a horse site, but it had little use when I stayed there a few years ago.....it did have a picnic table if I remember..
but, to be honest, I'd take 75 over any of the deep creek campsites...
(fwiw, I have hiked all the trails in the park, and have stayed at all the campsite, even the boat accessible ones, in the park)...
Thanks for the heads up on Bear Creek. Looks like the grade steepens quite a bit after leaving 75. That would be a tough 3 miles to start an already longish day. We may opt for the shorter more moderate Deep Creek loop. Newton Bald sounds like a nice spot.
It is all uphill after 75 to Welch Ridge, but I didn't think it was too bad at all. I took my two daughters (11 and 12 years old) and we had lunch at the Jonas Creek junction to give you an idea of time. But either loop you are considering should be a good time. Enjoy!
I do suggest, and it will add a touch of mileage to the trip, if you do go up bear creek to welch ridge, to make a stop by high rocks..........a nice view of the area from a very remote kinda spot.....
HooKooDooKu
01-10-2014, 14:21
(fwiw, I have hiked all the trails in the park, and have stayed at all the campsite, even the boat accessible ones, in the park)...
I hope to be able to say the same thing one day... but being an ALhiker, after 20 years, I've only got about 1/3 of the park covered.
BTW, ATL Backpacker and anyone else planning a hiking trip in GSMNP:
1. I can't recommend enough "The Little Brown Book (http://www.amazon.com/Smokies-Mountains-Natural-History-Association/dp/0937207152)", as it is colloquially known.
In addition to Amazon, the book can be picked up at any Smokies Visitor's Center.
(I found the Amazon link by googling "smokies brown book")
2. I also recommend installing Google Earth (http://www.google.com/earth/) and downloaded the camp.kmz file and trails.kmz file available at http://web.eecs.utk.edu/~dunigan/gsmnp/. The trail and camp site data in these kmz files is much more accurate than the data available in Google Maps.
3. The next time you're in the Smokies, buy a couple of the trail maps (http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/maps.htm) from any gift shop (they are only $1 each) to use to help plan your next hike (I say a couple so that you can keep at least one clean copy, and other copies with notes on them). Until then, use the online copy (http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/upload/trail-map_JULY13-full.pdf). The maps are geographically to scale, but the trail routes are only approximate.
4. The National Park seems to be taking the smart approach in deciding that it is cheaper to prevent hikers from getting lost than it is to search for lost hikers. As a result, the trail intersections are very well marked with wooden sign posts in the back country. As such, you don't really need a topo map and compass in the back country. You only NEED to carry is a copy of the trail map to keep yourself oriented at trail intersections.
excellent advice.....
the brown book, imo, is the best trail guide that i have ever come across........worth every penny of the 20 bucks i think it costs (i seemingly have four of them)..
also, yup, dollar map is all youll need to follow trails........just dont go off trail, and you should be fine.......some intersections of some trails may be sorta confusing but it all comes down to common sense...
living in knoxville made it easy for me to get to the park and knock the trails out........it became one of my goals after i moved down here the first time.....after gettting done about 75%, i had to move.......didnt want to but had to.......and moved back just to finish off the park.......
then my second goal became to spend a night in every backcountry site.....finished that in 2011.......
and now on to other places (joyce kilmer/slickrock area, snowbird wildeness, etc etc)....
and i happen to just get into atlanta a few minutes ago, so that i could go see the allman brothers band tonight....
HooKooDooKu
01-10-2014, 19:13
just dont go off trail, and you should be fine
Based on my experience, the casual hiker will have no reason to "go off trail" in the Smokies. The combination of dense vegetation and steep terrain means that you pretty much always want to stay on a trail because there isn't going to be any faster (or safer) way to get from Point A to Point B except by trail.
The only possible exception might be if trail conditions changed while you were in the back country (think storm knocking down trees) that renders the trail impassible. But even in that situation, unless it is an emergency, your best course of action is going to hunker down in place and wait for help (you did tell someone where you were going and where you were coming out of the woods so that Park Rangers can be notified when you're late... in which case they are going to start looking for you on the trails).
BTW, under no circumstance should you rely on a cell phone to get you out of a jam. Most spots within the GSMNP do not get cell reception. The recent story about the three hikers rescued along the AT by "calling" for help got lucky. They were hiking along a mountain ridge in an area close enough to local cell towers that they were getting a signal. By contrast, most valleys are not going to have ANY reception, and many mountain tops are just plane too far from towers to get a signal. I know from experience at LeConte Lodge that weather makes the difference in getting a cell signal. The Lodge overlooks Gatlinburg, but the towers in Gatlinburg are over 5 miles away. In clear weather, I can get a clear enough signal to at least send a text message (and maybe even a voice call). But if it is raining, I can't even send a text message from LeConte.
ATL Backpacker
01-10-2014, 21:40
Yep I’ve got the Brown Book and trails loaded onto Google Earth. Those are 2 great resources. But sometimes nothing beats a first-hand report, especially when it comes to campsites.
I do about 3 Smokies trips per year and always like to dig up info on the campsites where we’ll be staying. Hit or miss when it comes to finding info on the internet. Would be nice to have a place to find “campsite reviews” . TN – sounds like you’d be well qualified to take on such a task!
HooKooDooKu
01-10-2014, 22:52
First hand reports can also provide additional information not found in the Brown Book. For example, there are several trails used all the time that the GSMNP acknowledge exists, but for some reason they do not provide any published information about them.
One great example is a trail that leads down a hill to a spring-time wild flower display. You won't find anything published about this trail in the Brown Book or anywhere by the GSMNP. However, park rangers acknowledge the existence of this trail because they have protected it from horse riders with a set of fences with several sharp U-Turns... turns easy to make on foot, impossibly narrow for a horse. Another example are the two trails that lead to a natural spring on the East side of Gregory Bald. Again, nothing published in the Brown Book or published by the GSMNP. Yet these unmarked trails have signs saying "No Horses {beyond this point}".
One great example is a trail that leads down a hill to a spring-time wild flower display. You won't find anything published about this trail in the Brown Book or anywhere by the GSMNP. However, park rangers acknowledge the existence of this trail because they have protected it from horse riders with a set of fences with several sharp U-Turns
yeah......and that turnstile is only maybe 8 or so years old......it wasnt there when i first started going down that area...
and that area has a bunch of history and interesting features........there's another way to come in from what i call the back way and follows a pretty good manway and one can use the turnstile entrance to complete a loop....
in some places and most incidences, rangers wont acknowledge off trail stuff...........i was in a place where there's a 3 way official trail intersection, with another manway (which lead down to a pretty popular waterfall that is tyicallly accessed by a more popular route on the backside of some buildings, and asked a ranger where that trail lead.....he said there wasnt a trail....i pointed and said that route there.......still claimed there was no trail there.....til i said, well, im going to hike it anyways, i wanna make sure it goes where i think it goes, and he confirmed it lead to where i was asking........
Based on my experience, the casual hiker will have no reason to "go off trail" in the Smokies.
yeah.....the caual hiker has no need........but ya know some of us like to explore other areas for various reasons........tons of history can be found not on the usual path....
that's when a more detailed map comes in handy....
and heck, most of the cemetery trails arent marked or officlal but have some no horse signs...
there's also a few networks of trails that have signs that not on the offical dollar map.............such as the case with trails around the horse rental places at sugarlands.....and theres a good set of various loops in the dudley creek area that also has a cemetery and a couple of chimneys......
Would be nice to have a place to find “campsite reviews”
There are sources of info for most if not all the GSMNP campsites, including reviews but damn if I can recall all those sources. However, you can start by going here https://smokiespermits.nps.gov/index.cfm?BCPermitTypeID=1 and starting the backcountry reservations process. Up comes a GSMNP map with all the trails, mileages, and campsites. Enlarge it with the + sign. Scroll the cursor over campsite numbers and it becomes a hand. Click and you'll get some campsite info. Usually a pic, descriptions, some other tidbits like elev, group size, # of campsites, availability, etc Usually the Backcountry Rangers Permit Office reservation desk has info you can get from a NP Ranger about various backcountry campsites too.
blue indian
01-11-2014, 16:41
excellent advice.....
the brown book, imo, is the best trail guide that i have ever come across........worth every penny of the 20 bucks i think it costs (i seemingly have four of them)..
also, yup, dollar map is all youll need to follow trails........just dont go off trail, and you should be fine.......some intersections of some trails may be sorta confusing but it all comes down to common sense...
living in knoxville made it easy for me to get to the park and knock the trails out........it became one of my goals after i moved down here the first time.....after gettting done about 75%, i had to move.......didnt want to but had to.......and moved back just to finish off the park.......
then my second goal became to spend a night in every backcountry site.....finished that in 2011.......
and now on to other places (joyce kilmer/slickrock area, snowbird wildeness, etc etc)....
and i happen to just get into atlanta a few minutes ago, so that i could go see the allman brothers band tonight....
I was at the show too! It was a special night. Looks like folks came from all over the country to see the show. Luckily I only had to travel 20 minutes.
blue indian
01-11-2014, 16:47
I love these GSMNP threads. My first backcountry trip was a paddle across Fontana and a hike up Hazel creek and I have been in love with the park and backpacking ever since.
I really appreciate all the detailed info you smoky vets provide on this forum. Its awesome to have people who have enough patience and knowledge to help people out with. Thanks yall!
Two of you there. Anyone have some bootleg to share?
gollwoods
01-11-2014, 18:02
kenneth wise wrote a book with lots of history and campsite reviews but it's almost 20 yrs old and out of print but they have them in some libraries or about $50
Hiking Trails of the Great Smoky Mountains : A Comprehensive Guide
blue indian
01-11-2014, 20:20
Cant help ya with the bootleg but the soundboard should be up pretty soon. They are also making a production out of it so if you wanna watch it, keeps your eyes open for when it airs.
I have the Kenneth Wise book. It has super detailed historical information for all of the trails and regions in the park. It also details the locations of a few of more commonly used manways like the catstairs, above ramsey cascaeds, above porters creek, etc. I love reading the trail descriptions in Wise's guide because it makes the backcountry come alive with history and stories.
If you enjoy the history of the park, get the Wise book, if you can find it. The historical descriptions of the trails in the brown book vary from pretty detailed, to inept, depending on the author of that trail's description.
The brown book is a bit more detailed (for trip planning purposes) though. The elevation profiles are very nice, and the trailhead descriptions and covered trails are more current.
Two of you there. Anyone have some bootleg to share?
it was taped for a DVD release so no open taping was allowed...
still working on finding a stealth copy of it.........
but, heck, if you really want some allmans music---i could scare ya up some.....
especially if you have a hard drive----i have a 300 gig drive full of allman related stuff....
Would be nice to have a place to find “campsite reviews”
i wish i had kept better notes on em all..
i really had thought it would make for a nice guidebook to do a review, show photos, water sources, etc etc....
but i didnt....
If you enjoy the history of the park, get the Wise book, if you can find it
in theory, there's supposed to be a new one in the works.....
i say "in theory" as i have heard about a new one to be published for about 8 years now.....
I was at the show too! It was a special night. Looks like folks came from all over the country to see the show. Luckily I only had to travel 20 minutes.
you should have looked for me there.....i was the one with the long hair and a batik...
it really was a special night..........interesting combos of musicians....
and yeah, i had friends that came in from chicago, boston, charlotte, and various other areas......
next up---planning for the beacon shows....
blue indian
01-13-2014, 00:30
Is the "brown book" everyone is talking about the one simply titled "Hiking Trails of the Smokies"...? This is the book I use for the smokies and I really like it, but the one thing im not crazy about is the inconsistency of the trail descriptions. But I guess it makes sense being that multiple authors were used for the guide. I do enjoy reading the trail descriptions and especially like it when it gets into the natural history and geology of the trail being described.
It sounds like the Wise book would be pretty cool to have given that I love southern Appalachian natural history and stories. I enjoyed exploring the former town of Proctor when hiking up hazel creek. I will have to look into getting that one. Does anyone have any other suggestions for resources on smokies history?
blue indian
01-13-2014, 00:35
you should have looked for me there.....i was the one with the long hair and a batik...
it really was a special night..........interesting combos of musicians....
and yeah, i had friends that came in from chicago, boston, charlotte, and various other areas......
next up---planning for the beacon shows....
The one with long hair and a batik....right! I saw you like 56 times then. haha.
I met a guy that came from Ithica, Ny that morning! thats crazy...
I wish the brothers would have played a couple more songs but me and my friends go to Wanee fest every year so I should get my fill down there. And yes, the beacon run is also on the list!
Likewise, I've been doing wanee for the last 5 years now...
and plan on doing peach fest later in summer.....and so far just have a ticket to one beacon show (my birthday, the 21st)---and am looking for a 22nd ticket....
yes---the brown book is the little one, about 6 inches by 4 maybe with a brown cover (hence little brown book)...
the book Fontana is a good read about that area..
are you looking for books and what not about trails or books about history of the park?
i have a bookshelf full of various books on the area...
Sorry--just reread your post...
theres a ton of good books about history involving park..
fontana by lance holland
theres a few different ones on Cade's cove
michael crime---strangers n high places
theres a couple on ccataloochee
the Carlos Campbell one that I can't remember title...
the great smokies by Daniel pierce
wildeast by Margeret brown.
theres a coupe by Dwight mccarter on plane crashes and being lost...
' that's the short list....I have a ton more but typing on this phone is driving me nuts...
Our Southern Highlanders - Horace Kephart
I go back and reread this every few years or so. Great anecdotes and history of the people that lived in the park before it was the park.
slbirdnerd
01-13-2014, 12:54
If you're going to be IN Bryson City, NC, there is a really good Italian restaurant there on one of the main streets. It looks fancy but my son and I went in there after rafting at NOC and they didn't care one bit. The service was great and so was the food. Best tiramisu I have ever had.
daddytwosticks
01-13-2014, 16:59
If you're going to be IN Bryson City, NC, there is a really good Italian restaurant there on one of the main streets. It looks fancy but my son and I went in there after rafting at NOC and they didn't care one bit. The service was great and so was the food. Best tiramisu I have ever had.
+1. Our family has eaten there before. Excellent. Try their calzones! :)
ATL Backpacker
01-13-2014, 23:29
Yep, Pasqualinos. Eaten there a few times over the years. The real hiker treat though is the Filling Station Deli down the street. Excellent sandwiches, hot and cold. Almost worth planning a trip into that entrance of the park just to get a sandwich there.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
sliderule
01-17-2014, 01:13
michael crime---strangers n high places
Michael Frome
Michael Frome
damn photo autocorrect......