Karl Meltzer 2014 AT FKT attempt

[ChinMusic]

According to JPD, Karl will be going after the AT record again.

[fredmugs]

Just looked at his website and it looks like he's planning to run in the Speedgoat 50K on July 19th. If he went SOBO again he would have to leave pretty early in June. Leaving after Speedgoat doesn't make any sense.

[Sly]

Just looked at his website and it looks like he's planning to run in the Speedgoat 50K on July 19th. If he went SOBO again he would have to leave pretty early in June. Leaving after Speedgoat doesn't make any sense.

Assuming a southbound hike, if I'm not mistaken he'd still mostly have 13-14 hours of daylight, losing at the most 30 minutes from a June start.

[Corsac]

I don't see why a late july start would be bad for trying to break the record. At the speed he should be going that seems like a great time to start. Of course I live off the PCT in So. California, what would I know about the East coast!

[lambsknoll]

Just looked at his website and it looks like he's planning to run in the Speedgoat 50K on July 19th. If he went SOBO again he would have to leave pretty early in June. Leaving after Speedgoat doesn't make any sense.
He's the race director of sg50k. Typically one does not race in their own race. He will certainly be there at the finish line though. Also he has an automatic entry to western states in June which I highly doubt he would pass up on and has expressed interest in the Zion 100 in early April.

I don't think 2014 is his year but he really wants the AT fkt so who knows.

[Dogwood]

Any relation to Brad Meltzer who might help him decode the answers to the thrilling aspects of strange lights in the sky over the AT?

[takethisbread]

Any relation to Brad Meltzer who might help him decode the answers to the thrilling aspects of strange lights in the sky over the AT?

I doubt it!
frankly I hope he fails. I want jennifer Pharr Davis to hold the record bc she's a hiker. she walked it , . she is part of this community.


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[mrcoffeect]

I doubt it!
frankly I hope he fails. I want jennifer Pharr Davis to hold the record bc she's a hiker. she walked it , . she is part of this community.


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I find that sentiment to be fairly rancid. Hoping that someone fails at any endever such as this, is wrong on so many levels.:(

[Rasputen]

Wishing Karl the best if he decides for a FKT. I look forward to his comments here if he becomes aware of the thread.

His approach to the FKT will be much different this time per his own words.

Finally. - 2000 miles is not that far.

[RITBlake]

I doubt it!
frankly I hope he fails. I want jennifer Pharr Davis to hold the record bc she's a hiker. she walked it , . she is part of this community.


Wow! What a pitiful/small/childish response. Congrats!

[MDSection12]

I don't wish ill on anyone, especially in terms of achieving a dream... But I can understand the sentiment that the record should stay with the hiker community. Then again, if Karl does it he will certainly become a part of the community.

[RITBlake]

You guys talk like he's using a jetpack to fly along the trail. He's attempting to do the whole thing...on foot...just like the "hiking community"

[Rasputen]

For the Record:

Karl Meltzer- Maine to Georgia 2008… 54 days, 21 hours, 12 minutes. 4th fastest time...

[Don H]

I doubt it!
frankly I hope he fails. I want jennifer Pharr Davis to hold the record bc she's a hiker. she walked it , . she is part of this community.

No she didn't, I saw her running the trail without a pack outside of Dalton. Not to diminish what she did. And she did stop and talk to me, which was very nice. Records are made to be broken and the coolest thing was when the current record holder met Jen at SPringer to congratulate her.

[Sly]

For the Record:

Karl Meltzer- Maine to Georgia 2008… 54 days, 21 hours, 12 minutes. 4th fastest time...

That's right, I think he continued hiking after an early setback virtually assured he wouldn't break any records. To me that's an incredible testimony in itself.

[Don H]

Yes he did. I followed his hike on line. He had terrible weather with tons of rain after leaving Katahdin and ended up with trench foot.

[MDSection12]

You guys talk like he's using a jetpack to fly along the trail. He's attempting to do the whole thing...on foot...just like the "hiking community"
I should have added; I don't know if Karl is 'part of the community' or not... I just could understand that sentiment if he wasn't. In hindsight, I'm not even sure I know what that would mean.

[RITBlake]

We jogged a few sections of the AT along my thru hike, sometimes out of boredom, sometimes just for a challenge. Guess my thru hike no longer counts because I didn't hike the whole thing!

[Malto]

That's right, I think he continued hiking after an early setback virtually assured he wouldn't break any records. To me that's an incredible testimony in itself.

How can this be? There must be a mistake. That would make him "part of ou community."

[ChinMusic]

How can this be? There must be a mistake. That would make him "part of ou community."
He is def one of us. I doubt many of us fall into his group.

[Son Driven]

In my mind trail running, and hiking are two separate activities; hikers walk, from town town, re-supply, do laundry, socialize at hostel stays, and carry food, clothing, and shelter. Trail runners run from road crossing, to road crossing were they receive support, not needing to carry food, shelter & clothing.

[ChinMusic]

In my mind trail running, and hiking are to separate activities; hikers walk, from town town, re-supply, do laundry, socialize at hostel stays, and carry food, clothing, and shelter. Trail runners run from road crossing, to road crossing were they receive support, not needing to carry food, shelter & clothing.

What is one walks from road crossing to road crossing?

[10-K]

I doubt it!
frankly I hope he fails. I want jennifer Pharr Davis to hold the record bc she's a hiker. she walked it , . she is part of this community.


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Ouch.. That's one of those things you think but don't say.... :)

[Son Driven]

What is one walks from road crossing to road crossing?
Perhaps a third event. The AT will become like a track & field venue, where multiple events are utilizing the same track. Add a bunch of movie crews and the AT can become a three ring circus. Personally I find trail runners disturbing they expect you to just to jump out of the way for them. Not so easy for me, since I have a problem with poison plants.

[ChinMusic]

Perhaps a third event. The AT will become like a track & field venue, where multiple events are utilizing the same track. Add a bunch of movie crews and the AT can become a three ring circus.

Which state gets the Steeplechase, VT or ME?

[capehiker]

No she didn't, I saw her running the trail without a pack outside of Dalton. Not to diminish what she did. And she did stop and talk to me, which was very nice. Records are made to be broken and the coolest thing was when the current record holder met Jen at SPringer to congratulate her.

I think takethisbread was referring to JPD's first Thru hike which was a "traditional" style of hike.

[Malto]

In my mind trail running, and hiking are two separate activities; hikers walk, from town town, re-supply, do laundry, socialize at hostel stays, and carry food, clothing, and shelter. Trail runners run from road crossing, to road crossing were they receive support, not needing to carry food, shelter & clothing.

Then why are you such a Jen fan? She hardly did what you described, at least not on her record run. I fear if you were in charge you would take away my thruhiker certificate. I spent little time in town socializing with other hikers. It's about time for Mags to swoop in with his HMHDI.

[aficion]

Then why are you such a Jen fan? She hardly did what you described, at least not on her record run. I fear if you were in charge you would take away my thruhiker certificate. I spent little time in town socializing with other hikers. It's about time for Mags to swoop in with his HMHDI.

Certificate? Dang if I'd a known you get a genuine certificate..............nevermind.

[Malto]

Certificate? Dang if I'd a known you get a genuine certificate..............nevermind.

If you finish the PCT you can get either a certificate or a medal! It's the only reason I did it.

[Son Driven]

Then why are you such a Jen fan? She hardly did what you described, at least not on her record run. I fear if you were in charge you would take away my thruhiker certificate. I spent little time in town socializing with other hikers. It's about time for Mags to swoop in with his HMHDI. Never claimed to be a fan of Jen, or diminish your achievement. And in my mind running without a full pack is different then hiking with a full pack. It is a different activity that uses the same trail. You still completed the AT and earned your certificate.

[Kookork]

I've never found a law that says for setting a record from point A to point B one is limited to walking it. It is not an Olympic venue with strict rules and the records are still mostly based on honor so to me it does not make any difference if you walk it or run it or crawl it. Start from either terminus and finish in the other terminus in the fastest time without any help and you are the unsupported record holder.

Get help along the route and finish it fastest and you are the supported record holder. You want to run it,then run. You want to hike it then hike. You want to crawl then crawl.Just pass the whole trail as you wish and don't skip any part short or long unless it is an official reroute. That is the only requirement IMO.

[Pedaling Fool]

In my mind trail running, and hiking are two separate activities; hikers walk, from town town, re-supply, do laundry, socialize at hostel stays, and carry food, clothing, and shelter. Trail runners run from road crossing, to road crossing were they receive support, not needing to carry food, shelter & clothing.


Perhaps a third event. The AT will become like a track & field venue, where multiple events are utilizing the same track. Add a bunch of movie crews and the AT can become a three ring circus. Personally I find trail runners disturbing they expect you to just to jump out of the way for them. Not so easy for me, since I have a problem with poison plants.


Never claimed to be a fan of Jen, or diminish your achievement. And in my mind running without a full pack is different then hiking with a full pack. It is a different activity that uses the same trail. You still completed the AT and earned your certificate.
You seem to be trying to say something, but coming a little short in making your point. If I'm not mistaken you seem to be saying that a supported speed hike is easier than a typical thru-hike.

As for it being a different activity...so? My hiking style can also be considered a different activity, since I carry at least twice as much weight as the typical TH and I my town visits are far fewer. And I despise "trail magic"...Talk about a "venue" on the trail.

[RED-DOG]

Some times i feel like a trail RUNNER, Wasn't there a guy last year or the year before that got the unsupported record what was his name?

[Son Driven]

You seem to be trying to say something, but coming a little short in making your point. If I'm not mistaken you seem to be saying that a supported speed hike is easier than a typical thru-hike.

As for it being a different activity...so? My hiking style can also be considered a different activity, since I carry at least twice as much weight as the typical TH and I my town visits are far fewer. And I despise "trail magic"...Talk about a "venue" on the trail.Please, my very human mind makes sorts. And in my mind a supported run is a different activity then a un-supported hike. Like a track & field event. It is one overall event with multiple events. All of the athletes are recognized for the achievement of there event. I never eluded that one achievement was greater then another. The only selfish negative thing I said about trail runners, is being made to feel like I need to hurly step aside for them, when I need to find a ivy free place to get out of there way.

[Mags]

It's about time for Mags to swoop in with his HMHDI.

Ask and rec'd
http://www.pmags.com/hike-my-hike-damn-it-hmhdi


I'd also like to remind our gentle readers that this forum is not the place to debate speed hikes.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?52676-Trail-Running-and-Speed-Hiking-(sticky)


thanks!

:)


If you finish the PCT you can get either a certificate or a medal! It's the only reason I did it.

Time spent outdoors sucks. The only reason why i hiked any of the trails is for totchkes on my "I love me wall". In fact, since I've done the CDT, I've pretty much given up any outdoor activity.

[Marta]

Time spent outdoors sucks. The only reason why i hiked any of the trails is for totchkes on my "I love me wall". In fact, since I've done the CDT, I've pretty much given up any outdoor activity.

Instead you've devoted yourself to becoming a media star and mogul.

[Mags]

Instead you've devoted yourself to becoming a media star and mogul.

My ultimate goal is to be like Ted Turner and have a chain of over priced steak houses.

[tolowo80]

Karl is pretty badass and an accomplished Ultra runner, It would be cool to pace him for a few miles on the trail...

[fiddlehead]

I was pretty much anti Karl after I saw his website last time saying it was him against the trail and a lot of ego crap.

But then, he did start with heavy heavy rains a week before and on his first 5 days and had to wait sometimes just to cross streams up in Maine and then, like someone mentioned, got trenchfoot and had to take a few days off.
But, for whatever reason, he continued.

I think I would have started over as he then had no chance to beat the record but continued to try to do it his fastest.
So, I gained a lot of respect for him.

I also thought it pretty cool that he was sponsored by Salomon shoes but ran/hiked parts of it in Montrail Vitesses because they ARE the best (of course they don't make them anymore)


I know I'll be following if he does try.
I bet he doesn't bring that big RV again.
He learned a lot I imagine.

[gravityman]

Jenn learned to walk before she ran. 2005 thruHIKE. Was around her a few days near Kincora. Maybe someone already mentioned that...

[tolowo80]

Would most forum members be more accepting of him if he hiked the AT first???

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[ChinMusic]

Would most forum members be more accepting of him if he hiked the AT first???


I think most forum members have always "accepted" him.

[tolowo80]

I think most forum members have always "accepted" him.

Gotcha.. thanks Chin..

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[Lone Wolf]

According to JPD, Karl will be going after the AT record again.

http://karlmeltzer.com/2014/04/one-more-off-the-couch-win-for-mankind/

[forrest!]

So looks like after July 19 some time. I start SOBO July 12 at a more sedate pace - he'll pass me well before I get out of Maine...

[fiddlehead]

At least he knows what he's getting into this time.

I wish him well.
It'll be fun following his run again.

[Rasputen]

Massanutten Mt. Trails 100 Miler

1
Karl Meltzer
46
M
Sandy, UT
18:40:23





Looks like our boy Karl wins his 36th 100 miler and in the process has his AT legs ready to attempt another go at the record. Good luck Karl.

[Malto]

Massanutten Mt. Trails 100 Miler



1
Karl Meltzer
46
M
Sandy, UT
18:40:23




Looks like our boy Karl wins his 36th 100 miler and in the process has his AT legs ready to attempt another go at the record. Good luck Karl.

If he can maintain that speed on the AT then he has a shot at sub 17 day finish. I predict he won't get that though, the Whites will slow him down a bit.

[ChinMusic]

Malto - If things go well for him on the AT, how many days you think he is capable of carving off the record? What is the best possible in your opinion ?

[Lone Wolf]

his success will depend on how good his support team performs. they must be willing to hike in to spots to set up a camp then hike out the next morning. early

[Astro]

his success will depend on how good his support team performs. they must be willing to hike in to spots to set up a camp then hike out the next morning. early

Like Napoleon said, an army can only move as fast as its supply wagon.

[Malto]

Malto - If things go well for him on the AT, how many days you think he is capable of carving off the record? What is the best possible in your opinion ?

I think it would be a shave not a carve, if he does break the record. (Jen set the bar pretty high.) Karl certainly goes into this with an impressive background but I believe Jens record is very close the theoretical maximum. I believe the unsupported record however, still has some some daylight between the record and theoretical maximum.

[Odd Man Out]

Massanutten Mt. Trails 100 Miler



1
Karl Meltzer
46
M
Sandy, UT
18:40:23




Looks like our boy Karl wins his 36th 100 miler and in the process has his AT legs ready to attempt another go at the record. Good luck Karl.

Hey, my sister lives in Sandy!

[Violent Green]

I think it would be a shave not a carve, if he does break the record. (Jen set the bar pretty high.) Karl certainly goes into this with an impressive background but I believe Jens record is very close the theoretical maximum. I believe the unsupported record however, still has some some daylight between the record and theoretical maximum.

I agree with Malto on the unsupported record. I think 42-43mpd unsupported is attainable.

Ryan

[Lone Wolf]

karl has the talent to break the record but does his support crew have the talent?

[fiddlehead]

I guess it depends if they are the same people from last time.
They learned a lot too I believe.
If it's a new and inexperienced crew for the AT, then there will most likely be problems.
Looking forward to following the attempt.
Is there a blog or website?

[Feral Bill]

Fkt ?????????

[Rasputen]

"In other big news. I am now making a formal mention that I’ll be headed back to Mt. Kathadin in Maine for another run at the AT record. I”m sure I’ll get some negative response, but keep in mind…this is all about being on that amazing trail, moving quickly and efficiently, and giving it all the respect I can possibly give it. If I fail, or fall behind a potential record, I am jumping in our vehicle and coming home. I won’t complete it this time if the record can’t go down. There will be no blog, no circus, and no listening to people tell me that hikers are faster than runners. Or visa versa….there is no difference, one person just moves a bit quicker and takes more risks."- Karl Meltzer

Good luck Karl!

[Pedaling Fool]

Fkt ?????????
Fastest Known Time

[Just Bill]

Looks like 10 days out or so from a start- does anyone know where/how/if he'll be posting updates?
I didn't see anything on his site, but that is probably the best bet I would imagine. If anyone has any better info please share.

Best of luck to Karl.

[Rasputen]

The journey soon begins.. Best of luck Karl


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbjC1Yky4n0

[jersey joe]

Sounds like he could be starting as early as today?
I'm glad he did this video at least. Doing more of a stealth trip this time with less promotion.
Hopefully he provides some sort of updates, they are fun to follow. Even if they are just 20 second videos each day like Matt Kirk did on his record hike.
Good Luck Karl, i'm pullin for ya!

[jersey joe]

The journey soon begins.. Best of luck Karl

http://youtu.be/cbjC1Yky4n0

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/cbjC1Yky4n0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Of note, at the 17 minute mark Lone Wolf gets a nice plug, best moment of Karl's 08 hike.

[rocketsocks]

Good interview/discussion, enjoyed the glimpse into sport. Good luck Karl.

[Lone Wolf]

Of note, at the 17 minute mark Lone Wolf gets a nice plug, best moment of Karl's 08 hike.

yup. got him some medicine

[RED-DOG]

it all depends on how lucky he gets with the weather.

[fredmugs]

I love it when somebody says the WANT to break a record.

[TOW]

Hope he does it....

[DandT40]

Really enjoyed the video and wish him the best. Seems like he has a very solid plan and realistic expectations of the difficulties ahead. Hope he does well. Always fun to see one of the greats going for a record.

[Just Bill]

Good luck to Karl- likely on trail by now....
From the Video sounds like there won't be much news until he gets going, so if anyone finds anything kindly pass it along.

[lemon b]

I heard him say he wanted to give it a go under the radar. NO Blog, no circus. Agree with Lone Wolf. The support team is the key to hike out set up a camp, refuel him and let him loose. Plus they have to be flexable enough if he wants to stretch it out or slow it down. And where to hook up at those times. I think he needs a multitime thru hiker on his team.

[Lone Wolf]

so if anyone finds anything kindly pass it along.
ummmm, no. remember matt

[CrumbSnatcher]

Good Luck Speed goat!
i hope you break the record, stay safe & have fun :-)

[Just Bill]

ummmm, no. remember matt

Yar, poor choice of words.

I woulda never found that Irunfar interview. That's all I mean. As I see nothin on Karl's site, or a convinient Wiki/webpage like Matt's to get updates- if somebody comes across an interview, or other obviously public info- please kindly pass it along.

Otherwise as pappy says; leave the fella alone.

[swisscross]

Any word on Karl?
I know he wants to be left alone for the first part of his journey but any update on pace would be nice.

[Just Bill]

Just a guess-
He may not have actually been out that long. His race was 7/19 and quite a drive from there to Maine even if he packed up and left the next day and had no post race duties (which I doubt)

Wouldn't be to shocked to find he didn't start until the beginning of the month.
Nice up there now I believe- but some pretty nasty crap blew through not long ago. If it was me I'd take a week and let things dry out before I took off.

Realistic best start- 7/26
Not that unlikely- he's been on the trail a week or less.

Anxious to hear something myself- but good for him. Up to the minute reports are not required.

[Lone Wolf]

Any word on Karl?

yup................

[Just Bill]

yup................

LOL, did you get promoted to the head of the medical team?

"In many accidents a stimulant is required. Don't carry whiskey- if you don't drink it up yourself the first time you feel bad, then someone will surely steal it. For the camp medical kit, get a bottle of pure grain alcohol. Put a fake label on it- "Antiseptic-Poison"- with a death's-head that even a savage will understand."
Uncle Horace

[Lone Wolf]

LOL, did you get promoted to the head of the medical team?

"In many accidents a stimulant is required. Don't carry whiskey- if you don't drink it up yourself the first time you feel bad, then someone will surely steal it. For the camp medical kit, get a bottle of pure grain alcohol. Put a fake label on it- "Antiseptic-Poison"- with a death's-head that even a savage will understand."
Uncle Horace

huh? i don't get it. but i know more than you

[Just Bill]

yup. got him some medicine

get it now?
The quote is from Kephart's chapter on first aid. Twasn't that obtuse a reference...

If the news ain't your's to share- quite understandable.
If not, the news will come in time- keep it in yer treasure box fer now if you wish.
Hope all is well with the attempt, best of luck to Karl.
Take care pappy.

[Josh D]

Posted this morning to Andrew Thompson's Twitter:

https://twitter.com/attraildog/status/498844963283927040
"Karl Meltzer enjoying some Vermont BBQ, NH blackberries and maple syrup"

[Josh D]

looks like we've got some numbers to crunch for anyone who feels so inclined. an update on the Irunfar facebook page posted today:

"A quick update on Karl Meltzer's attempt at an Appalachian Trail FKT.

He left Mount Katahdin in Maine in the early hours of July 27. He ended last night with 768.3 miles in the books. That means he's covered an average of 42.68 miles a day for the first 18 days and puts him in New York. He should hit the New Jersey section of the AT on Saturday at mile 823.3. (If only he had time to stop at Hot Dog Johnny's!) Last we heard, he was still feeling fine and moving well.

Update: Karl is certainly in the ballpark of record pace.

We're hoping to chat with Karl in the next few days at which point we'll share more details. In the meantime, here's our pre-attempt video interview with Karl: http://i-rn.fr/MetlzerAT14 (http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi-rn.fr%2FMetlzerAT14&h=mAQFeU6Nm&enc=AZP6U0KlYvu80xCNkYoS0pnXJxDTUvaYmpsIxhhWOQQPtA gplQAhhzJZNkkeqd9y4FhdPVbiUjEaj3mzQgn24fjGjulyQbp7 g5x1H4xDgcH82HNFm0MYrQWgmDeu988Z6uX_tVlbQj7ljm-OZNZ4ODWP&s=1)

Photo: iRunFar/Bryon Powell of Karl running the Run Rabbit Run 100 in 2013.
— with Karl Meltzer (https://www.facebook.com/karl.meltzer.3)."

[Josh D]

Looks like he'll have to average about 50.5 the rest of the way to finish in 46 days.

[Chair-man]

Looks like he'll have to average about 50.5 the rest of the way to finish in 46 days.

He's got the hardest part of the trail behind him so 50+ mile days seem doable.

[Del Q]

Those are just nuts miles on the AT............have not been on the PCT or CDT yet but the videos and pics I have seen, totally different ball game.

PS I was at the Partnership Shelter and ran into a PCT hiker doing some miles on the AT, NOBO, hiked 60 miles in 2 days. Looked like he just came in from a walk in the local park. That 60 miles took me 5 days

[Lone Wolf]

he's got this :)

[Just Bill]

28117
JPD's splits-
758.3 miles at the end of day 18, 42.13MPD average.
768.3, 42.68 average MPD puts him AHEAD of Jen.
days 19-45 (tossed her last day)- she averaged 49.59 MPD- so 50 even is Karl's target.
Though- don't actually have this sheet with me- so I could have flubbed a number on my calcylator and notebook.

Jen did worse than Matt in the whites actually, but posted serious numbers down south.

He is certainly on track. Bit early for me to say he's got it, but you know more than me pappy:)
Course spreadsheets can be pretty useful too.;)

Good luck Karl!

[Just Bill]

A telling number too for you anti-speed hikers-
The fastest person ever to do the AT hiked at 2.83 Miles per Hiking Hour average.
Or to put it another way;
She did exactly what we all do, just stayed on trail for 16 hours instead of camping for 8 and hiking for 8.

[Odd Man Out]

A telling number too for you anti-speed hikers-
The fastest person ever to do the AT hiked at 2.83 Miles per Hiking Hour average.
Or to put it another way;
She did exactly what we all do, just stayed on trail for 16 hours instead of camping for 8 and hiking for 8.

That's very interesting. Don't think I've seen that data broken down by hr before. I Karl running or walking (as JPD)?

[Just Bill]

That's very interesting. Don't think I've seen that data broken down by hr before. I Karl running or walking (as JPD)?

Don't know about Karl, Jen and Matt say they walked. Anish definitely ran some parts, but that sounded more sporadic bursts than any concerted effort.
I generally take folks at their word, and have no real reason to doubt any of them on this. That said...I find it hard to believe a bit of jogging didn't take place here or there.

The best sustained Mile per hiking hour average I have been able to pull is just shy of 4MPH over 20 miles. That involved a bit of very light jogging, maybe 10% or so of the mileage. I would not consider it a sustainable pace, but I can continue on and still move the next day.

I like that breakdown best because it is the most accurate gauge of your efficiency on the day. It is easy enough to say you can hit 4MPH, but at the end of the day you won't have covered 4 times the hours you were out. Breaks, water, bathroom, map reading, ball scratching, universe pondering, photo taking, greeting hikers, laundry, hygiene, and the fifty other things you do take some time. I can pee while walking DW, but I certainly can't do it moving at 4MPH. It's actually faster to just pull over.

Bottom line- it's one thing to say you can move quickly. Quite another to find out how quickly you can move when you set your total miles against the total time you are not sleeping. As a supported hiker, I would have thought Jen's number would have been a bit higher when I crunched it but guess not. That said, it is shockingly difficult to break 3mph average without some jogging FOR ME. Not to say others can't do it. They are likely more efficient than me in regards to all the other stuff. Or they simply have a faster walking pace close to 4MPH.

I would be interested in seeing that number for somebody like Joey Camps, who ran quite a bit.

That said- prior to Jen- folks ran, and Jen beat them by walking. There is likely a good reason for it. A quarter mile per hour faster only buys you 4 miles in a 16 hour day assuming you can do it. If that 1/4 extra prevents you from hiking during hours 15-17- then you lose.

Point being- you get further at the end of the day going 3MPH for 16 hours than you do going 12 hours at 4MPH. I'm sure the exception is around the corner- but it is very difficult to sustain 4MPH more than 12 hours over multiple days. 3MPH at a 16 hour day is the more sustainable pace at these distances. A 100 mile ultra in 24 hours is considered difficult, average pace is 4.17 MPH. Which means a 5-6mph pace moving.

Bottom line- the times we are seeing are about the limit of walking in my opinion. It is still quite plausible that even Karl can walk a record pace. For that recent PCT supported hiker- unlikely. 50mpd/18 hours= 2.77mph- about the limit I think without jogging. At some point you fight sleep deprivation too much to continue on 4-6 hours of sleep and you crash.

[Odd Man Out]

I'm sure some biomechanics researcher has studied the relative efficiencies of walking vs running. I wonder how the oxygen/calorie consumption per mile would compare? Usually people are looking for speed, but that is not so relevant here, as you point out.

[Alligator]

Karl ran it last time. I don't know if he is running this time, that's what I would expect though.

[ScottS]

Jen said in an interview once she "probably looked like the slowest trail runner ever." I take that to mean she jogged.
Even those attempting selfsupported jog and run a bit. An extra hour of rest in a day from going a bit faster on easy parts really can't be underemphasized. With the ups and downs of the AT, it's not as if running for an hour a day means an hour straight. It's over the course of the day being able to chip away at the non-technical downhills and flats. 2 minutes saved here, 5 there, and by night you're able to actually rest between eating dinner and going to sleep.
Karl has said he'll be primarily hiking but will be running some.

[fiddlehead]

I have 2 rules when speed-hiking:
Always walk the uphills
Always run the downhills.

(of course, all rules are made to be broken, and I will run an uphill if it is short and I have momentum: the tank traps of northern VA, just before hitting WV come to my mind.

I use the rule whether running marathons, or hiking.
I suspect a lot of speed hikers do similar.

[fredmugs]

Don't know about Karl, Jen and Matt say they walked. Anish definitely ran some parts, but that sounded more sporadic bursts than any concerted effort.
I generally take folks at their word, and have no real reason to doubt any of them on this. That said...I find it hard to believe a bit of jogging didn't take place here or there.



Jen walked past me in Maine and then jogged away on a downhill section. I imagine when you're at that level of fitness you are going to at least do a "Marine Corps shuffle" on some downhill stretches. As one of the baddest ultra marathoners on the planet Karl has to be jogging whenever he's feeling it.

[Just Bill]

OMO- for a self supported attempt- the food weight vs. pace is a bigger factor IMO and I personally subscribe to a bit of the Ray Way method of pacing by Tachometer (heart rate) as a gauge of fuel efficiency. On a supported effort- cram in whatever you can get and put the pedal to the floor is my understanding.

Don't want to put words in anyone's mouth myself, but I do find it impractical not to shuffle step or even jog from time to time. On some downhills a light jog is more efficient than walking in my experience. As Scott said, any spare minute you can recover makes a massive difference. Regardless of exactly how past efforts went down, the times we are seeing at this point pretty well eliminate the option of walking full time. Future efforts (Joey Camps being an excellent example) will likely need to incorporate some running, if for no other reason than the hours needed per day to walk are exceeding the minimum hours of rest needed.

It's still close on paper- but in reality- looks like the scale has already tipped.

Looking at Joey's effort a bit more has certainly changed my perspective on things. For anything longer than a week, holding eight hours of rest and increasing miles per hiking hour to accomplish that goal seems the better strategy than sleep deprivation.

[RockDoc]

"Always walk the uphills
Always run the downhills."

Run the levels too.

[Just Bill]

"Always walk the uphills
Always run the downhills."

Run the levels too.
LOL- the line gets blurrier and blurrier. But likely that's a good thing.

Awhile back I read "Never Wipe Your Ass With A Squirrel" an overall good book on ultrarunning. An excellent cross over trick that works in my experience- INCREASE speed when fatigue sets in. Just a short burst of speed (a light jog in my case) does seem to work quite well to shake muscles out of a funk of repetitive use fatigue. The levels seem best suited for this trick in regards to hiking. Even a minute or two an hour seems to help shake things up enough to work a few different micro muscles.

[Josh D]

As of Sunday Karl was in PA, don't have any mile markers. IrunFar.com is supposedly going to be talking to Karl and crew and posting updates, but still haven't seen anything yet. The last update I saw was 859.2 miles after 20 days putting him 8 miles ahead of JPD.

[TOW]

Hope he does it!

[Just Bill]

Halfway comes fast...
Sounds like a nail-biter photo finish is in the works.

47 years old right? Nice to see one can get better with age.:)

Stay healthy fella.

[atmilkman]

Any updates?

[Josh D]

Any updates?

I'm following this attempt daily and will post here on any updates I see. The day 20 mileage is the last public update. Brian Powell at IRUNFAR.com made a comment on facebook yesterday that he had a conversation with Karl last Friday and was planning on putting together a comprehensive update about Karl's hike but his notes got lost while traveling, even so at this point that update would be a week old. hopefully Brian will talk with Karl again soon and post mileage updates. I must say I'm a bit disappointed on the lack of updates. Hopefully someone on Karl's crew is keeping private records that they will make public after the hike is over.

[brianober]

I went looking for Karl yesterday morning, Wednesday, and found him! Ended up hiking with him for 20 minutes or so. He seemed to be doing okay, said he was "in the zone". Great experience.

Wed, Aug 20, 11:55 AM Whiskey Springs Rd. Pennsylvania, mile 1074 of 2185.

Go Karl! Good luck!

[Josh D]

I went looking for Karl yesterday morning, Wednesday, and found him! Ended up hiking with him for 20 minutes or so. He seemed to be doing okay, said he was "in the zone". Great experience.

Wed, Aug 20, 11:55 AM Whiskey Springs Rd. Pennsylvania, mile 1074 of 2185.

Go Karl! Good luck!

So lets say after he left you at noon he hiked for 10 more hours at 3 MPH he would have ended the day at 1104 which would have been day 25. JPD ended day 25 at 1105. not exact numbers but can't be that far off. Just goes to show that things are still neck and neck and Karl hasn't started pulling away.

[Odd Man Out]

So lets say after he left you at noon he hiked for 10 more hours at 3 MPH he would have ended the day at 1104 which would have been day 25. JPD ended day 25 at 1105. not exact numbers but can't be that far off. Just goes to show that things are still neck and neck and Karl hasn't started pulling away.

Sounds right. I figured him needing 31.7 miles yet today to pull even.

[Trillium]

This isn't a current update but I've been catching up on a TJ I've been following and here's what Cowgirl posted on Aug 1:



After I got camp set up I left Coop in the tent, he was sound asleep, and went back to the road to say hi to the guys. I had noticed the van had Utah plates. Well, ends up they are supporting a gentleman named Karl Melzer who is trying to beat the time for completing the AT with support.
To do this Karl will have to go almost 50 miles per day. This record is currently held by a woman. As I was sitting there visiting, Karl came in. It was a very intense affair. He sat, ate a little. His team refilled water bottles. Checked headlamps. Resupplied him with snacks. Karl gave his instructions for the evening. Then he was off!!!!!!


http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=468665

[MuddyWaters]

Decide to delete

[Josh D]

Still no real updates since day 20. Today is Day 29. As of yesterday someone reported they ran with Karl in Virginia. So he's in Virginia, but don't know where, probably near Waynesboro? but that's pure speculation. JPD was at 1307.7 at the end of day 29

[climbingbear]

I was in Shenandoah National Park Sunday 8/24 and Karl passed me just north of Smith Roach Gap. His support team was setup in the parking lot there and cooking him dinner when I got back to my car. I greeted them and they were very nice. Karl (Speed Goat) offered to take a picture with me and we did. He was off again very quickly. His support team told me he was averaging 52 miles per day. Picture of Karl and Me: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KsaBZj47AnY/U_qWEhj11YI/AAAAAAAAEdU/bhoqm_Y2wC4/s1600/20140824_181609.jpg
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KsaBZj47AnY/U_qWEhj11YI/AAAAAAAAEdU/bhoqm_Y2wC4/s1600/20140824_181609.jpg)
This is my first post, I'm excited to become part of White Blaze. I'm working on the SNAP 500 Challenge (see http://snap500.blogspot.com/ (http://see http://snap500.blogspot.com/)). My blog is at: http://davessnap500.blogspot.com/

[climbingbear]

I was in Shenandoah National Park Sunday 8/24 and Karl passed me just north of Smith Roach Gap. His support team was setup in the parking lot there and cooking him dinner when I got back to my car. I greeted them and they were very nice. Karl (Speed Goat) offered to take a picture with me and we did. He was off again very quickly. His support team told me he was averaging 52 miles per day. Picture of Karl and Me: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KsaBZj47AnY/U_qWEhj11YI/AAAAAAAAEdU/bhoqm_Y2wC4/s1600/20140824_181609.jpg

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KsaBZj47AnY/U_qWEhj11YI/AAAAAAAAEdU/bhoqm_Y2wC4/s1600/20140824_181609.jpg)
This is my first post, I'm excited to become part of White Blaze. I'm working on the SNAP 500 Challenge (see http://snap500.blogspot.com/ (http://see http://snap500.blogspot.com/)). My blog is at: http://davessnap500.blogspot.com/

Photo on WB: http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=60268&original=1&c=536 (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KsaBZj47AnY/U_qWEhj11YI/AAAAAAAAEdU/bhoqm_Y2wC4/s1600/20140824_181609.jpg)

[rocketsocks]

I was in Shenandoah National Park Sunday 8/24 and Karl passed me just north of Smith Roach Gap. His support team was setup in the parking lot there and cooking him dinner when I got back to my car. I greeted them and they were very nice. Karl (Speed Goat) offered to take a picture with me and we did. He was off again very quickly. His support team told me he was averaging 52 miles per day. Picture of Karl and Me: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KsaBZj47AnY/U_qWEhj11YI/AAAAAAAAEdU/bhoqm_Y2wC4/s1600/20140824_181609.jpg
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KsaBZj47AnY/U_qWEhj11YI/AAAAAAAAEdU/bhoqm_Y2wC4/s1600/20140824_181609.jpg)
This is my first post, I'm excited to become part of White Blaze. I'm working on the SNAP 500 Challenge (see http://snap500.blogspot.com/ (http://see http://snap500.blogspot.com/)). My blog is at: http://davessnap500.blogspot.com/

:welcome enjoying your blog...very nice!

[Odd Man Out]

I was in Shenandoah National Park Sunday 8/24 and Karl passed me just north of Smith Roach Gap. His support team was setup in the parking lot there and cooking him dinner when I got back to my car. I greeted them and they were very nice. Karl (Speed Goat) offered to take a picture with me and we did. He was off again very quickly. His support team told me he was averaging 52 miles per day. Picture of Karl and Me: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KsaBZj47AnY/U_qWEhj11YI/AAAAAAAAEdU/bhoqm_Y2wC4/s1600/20140824_181609.jpg
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KsaBZj47AnY/U_qWEhj11YI/AAAAAAAAEdU/bhoqm_Y2wC4/s1600/20140824_181609.jpg)
This is my first post, I'm excited to become part of White Blaze. I'm working on the SNAP 500 Challenge (see http://snap500.blogspot.com/ (http://see http://snap500.blogspot.com/)). My blog is at: http://davessnap500.blogspot.com/

My figures show that if he was at Smith Roach Gap on 8/24 for dinner, he would need to cover 21.1 more miles that day to be at JPD pace. If he covered no more miles that day and averaged 52 mpd the for the rest of the trail, he would be 16 miles short of finishing on day 46. JPD averaged 49.2 MPD over that stretch.

[Josh D]

My figures show that if he was at Smith Roach Gap on 8/24 for dinner, he would need to cover 21.1 more miles that day to be at JPD pace. If he covered no more miles that day and averaged 52 mpd the for the rest of the trail, he would be 16 miles short of finishing on day 46. JPD averaged 49.2 MPD over that stretch.

My guess is that he is going to try to stay even with JPD until the last 100 miles then do a single 100 mile push in around 24-30 hours, bringing him in right around 46 days flat. He has had more success at the 100 mile distance than anyone else in the world.

[Chair-man]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KsaBZj47AnY/U_qWEhj11YI/AAAAAAAAEdU/bhoqm_Y2wC4/s1600/20140824_181609.jpg

Meltzer looks good, confident.

In his pre-attempt video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbjC1Yky4n0) he talks about how he knows where he has to be and how he plans on a big kick at the end.
As long as he stays healthy and the weather cooperates, he should have it. IMO

[fiddlehead]

He certainly looks pretty good for having averaged over 40 mpd over the past thirty some days in a row.
(sorry, too lazy to do the exact math)
But he does look fresh. (except you can't see his eyes, LOL)

[colorado_rob]

These attempts are awesome to follow, and I sure like his style (low-key, "off the radar") on this one. Go Karl!

[Ktaadn]

Meltzer looks good, confident.

In his pre-attempt video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbjC1Yky4n0) he talks about how he knows where he has to be and how he plans on a big kick at the end.
As long as he stays healthy and the weather cooperates, he should have it. IMO

Everyone plans a big kick at the end whether it is a one mile race or 2000 miles. It's pretty basic strategy.

Can't wait to see what happens!

[Chair-man]

This is from Post #82 on 8/14 on this thread


looks like we've got some numbers to crunch for a yone who feels so inclined. an update on the Irunfar facebook page posted today:

"A quick update on Karl Meltzer's attempt at an Appalachian Trail FKT.

He left Mount Katahdin in Maine in the early hours of July 27.

So, if you figure karl started at 6am on 7/27 and you add 46 days 11 hours 20 min (Jennifer Davis's record time) you'll see that karl needs to be at Springer by Thursday Sept 11th 5:20 pm. (http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadded.html?m1=7&d1=27&y1=2014&type=add&ay=&am=&aw=&ad=46&h1=6&i1=0&s1=0&ah=11&ai=20&as=)

I know Karl said he didn't want to make a party about this but good luck with that.

[KVKV]

I read in irunfar that karl is off the AT. Any news on that? I was gunning for him

[Josh D]

I read in irunfar that karl is off the AT. Any news on that? I was gunning for him

I saw that on the Irunfar twitter as well, and it seems to come from a reliable source. Not sure what happened, It seemed like he had been struggling with blisters throughout but that's the only sign of hardship I spotted. judging by the lack of updates throughout this attempt I would guess their won't be much of an explanation. Just goes to show how tough JPD's record is. Karl is one of the best trail ultrarunners there is, and he's attempted this record twice.

[lemon b]

JPD set a very high bar.

[atmilkman]

Any more word on this?

[Josh D]

I've seen multiple reports of him abandoning the attempt but no reasons why.

[Don H]

Karl's Facebook page says he's off the trail.

I'd sure like to hear more about his experience.

[ScottS]

I'm apparently terrible at facebook.
Where are the reports saying he's off? I don't see them on IRF or his own personal page.

[pafarmboy]

From his Facebook page: Karl Meltzer (https://www.facebook.com/karl.meltzer.3?fref=ufi) no injuries, I just fell off the pace and could not realistically make it up. It is what it is. Perhaps next time

[ScottS]

I see a post on July 11 for Hoka and a post on September 3rd about Redbull but nothing in between and nothing mentioning the AT.
I'm sorry for seeming dumb, I'm just really unfamiliar with Facebook. Is it maybe a post for friends only?

[Seatbelt]

I see a post on July 11 for Hoka and a post on September 3rd about Redbull but nothing in between and nothing mentioning the AT.
I'm sorry for seeming dumb, I'm just really unfamiliar with Facebook. Is it maybe a post for friends only?

I was wondering the same thing. The guy goes to the trouble to publicize his attempt with a video and all and then falls off the grid with no followup? Maybe he is still out there or?? Maybe his pride is bruised, who knows?

[Just Bill]

I see a post on July 11 for Hoka and a post on September 3rd about Redbull but nothing in between and nothing mentioning the AT.
I'm sorry for seeming dumb, I'm just really unfamiliar with Facebook. Is it maybe a post for friends only?

I'm a FB idiot as well- the comment posted above is accurate, it's just a random comment by Karl in a running thread so easy to miss. Only source I have seen. You don't need to be "friends" it's just hard to catch because it's not it's own thread/status update (if that's the right word?). He said in the original interview that if it wasn't going to happen he'd just call it. JPD's numbers were pretty insane on the second half, her times in and around the Whites were relatively low compared to her overall pace.

While it appeared they were neck and neck, those numbers were deceiving in my opinion as Jen found an overdrive gear not installed on most models of hiker on the latter half of the hike. I would imagine it would not have taken long to fall off her pace, a steady runner would have wanted a pretty good lead really going into the second half. I don't think it's that realistic to try to match her daily miles; beat her where she struggled, not try to kill it where she excelled. She put up one 50 on the first half and 6 days in the 30's (with a lowest day of 30), and 10 fifty+ days on the second (including a 60). Only one day at 43, everything else was 45+ through the second half.

Likely a solid effort by Karl, hopefully we hear more...

I recently entered the dark blue side, you can be my Friend if you want, fat load of good it will do you though- https://www.facebook.com/lyingonthetrailjb

[Just Bill]

Well maybe this FB crap isn't all crap- Karl was having trouble logging in to post, so he sent me a message on FB to post on his behalf.


Hello Bill. Speedgoat Karl here. I am not able to post on Whiteblaze for some reason so I have been pretty silent, but you have been watching quite diligently, so I'll go through you.

I fell off pace around the Priest in Virginia. I had two bad days in a row, no energy, yada, yada. I stopped because I felt the record was out of reach. I believe I needed 56 per day with 15 or so days left. It was not in the cards this year to attain that, so I went home, as I said I would. Jen put up some pretty big numbers in the second half, so my strategy was to get a little ahead in VT where she struggled a bit. I did that, with a 22 mile lead at one point, but I knew after that lead, I began to falter a bit and could feel it was going to be tough with here numbers later. Once I started to fall back a bit, mostly because my feet were really bothering me more than anything, I fell a bit behind. Then the section in Va killed me.

"seatbelt" my pride is not bruised, it just was not in the cards this time, perhaps a third time is a charm. :)

I was not posting because I do not typically like running/hiking with others, I'd rather be alone with the bears, so posting only brings people out to run/hike with me. It's just the way I like to do it.

Feel free to post this on Whiteblaze. it's all good, and thanks everyone for being kind this time. If I go at it a 3rd time, it'll be next year or the year after, cuz' I"m getting too old for this ****. :)