Thru-hiking with a hammock, but sleeping in a shelter is inevtiable

[fastfoxengineering]

I've searched and spent a few hours trying to get to the bottom of this. What is the best way to get the best of both worlds on AT? You want to bring your hammock, but its inevitable you'll be sleeping in a shelter a fair amount of times. It's even mandatory at some points.

So, what do you guys think is the best medium for having your cake and being able to eat it too?

Most people will agree that if your going to bring a hammock. Do it right with an under quilt and top quilt. I would say the best option would be a 20* under quilt coupled with a 40* top quilt.

Couple that with a +15 degree sleeping bag liner and you should be set on warmth the whole hike. Lightweight solution, about 2 1/4 lbs including both uq's and the liner.

Now...you gotta make that switch to to the shelter bunk. Having a 40* top quilt and sleeping bag liner is great. Because when you crawl in the liner, your back isn't exposed. And you should warm throughout the hike.

But what do you do to sleep on? If you carry a thermarest neoair, you know have the best of both worlds.. but your carrying 3lbs of insulation. and you just dropped A LOT of coin.

If you just bring a, for example, gossamer gear torso pad.. are you really gonna sleep well? ... but you also cut half a pound of weight.

Whats your thoughts on this topic?

Regards

[MDSection12]

A torso length piece of CCF would be better than nothing and a small weight penalty. Your feet could rest on your pack. It'd double as a nice sit pad as well.

[fastfoxengineering]

A torso length piece of CCF would be better than nothing and a small weight penalty. Your feet could rest on your pack. It'd double as a nice sit pad as well.

That's the only "good" compromise I can find right now. But.. don't most people hang their pack to let it dry out because there are a lot of wet days. Now wouldn't sleeping on your damp or wet sleeping bag with a down bag be completely no bueno.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Just bring a Neoair or other similar lightweight pad in length of your choosing, and dare I say, "suck it up" regarding the little extra weight (less than lb). Good comfortable sleep is well worth it. Carrying only one extra pound in order to sleep comfortably in either system just makes more sense than uncomfortable compromises.

[Rocket Jones]

If you're using a torso pad and trash compactor bag as an inner pack liner, just turn the bag inside out and put your pack in it before bed. That way you can still put your legs on your pack. I wouldn't wrap it tight, just leave the end open for a little air circulation. Might even dry your pack a bit.

[Meriadoc]

I can tell you what worked for me. I had my 20 degree TQ the whole time.

(1) 1/8" torso pad from gossamer
No problems but it wasn't that comfortable. It became gradually better as my tissues toughened (just like cycling).

(2) No pad at all
It worked but it wasn't the most fun. Unless I was physically tired, I woke up a few times. After long days it was not an issue.

(3) z-lite
It was worth it.

(4) Carrying a UQ as well as a z-lite
It was worth it in the cold months.


Edit: I slept in shelters or on the ground a fair bit. I didn't always feel like setting up my hammock. But it was the absolute best thing for lunch :).

[scope]

First of all, you won't use the bag liner in the hammock, trust me on this one - and maybe try it out to see why. Truth is they don't add all that much in warmth.

You're going to want to be in the hammock, but if you're committed to making your setup multi-applicable, then I would go with an air pad for sure... less bulk packed, more comfort on the ground, and they tend to work a little better in the hammock (IMO). I think what I would do is go with a 40UQ and supplement with the pad since you'll have it. Then, I'd get a 20TQ (no bag liner) which will be versatile enough for most any weather.

I know that in general you want most of the down on the bottom, but it just doesn't make sense to me to 1) use more down underneath AND have the pad, while skimping on top, and 2) to have the pad sitting in the pack all the time while you're hanging just because you would rather (and you will) only use the UQ. And besides, you'll be surprised how low you can go with a 40UQ.

p.s. its not a big deal to have your back directly on the pad - you'd get used to it pretty fast. You might checkout the Klymit pads which seem like they would work well in a hammock in conjunction with an UQ.

[Son Driven]

A torso length piece of CCF would be better than nothing and a small weight penalty. Your feet could rest on your pack. It'd double as a nice sit pad as well.Your torso ccf mat allows you to utilize a lighter frame-less pack by configuring it into a coil and inserting it into your pack as structure. Personally I do not want to depend on pads that hold air, where do you go when they start to leak?

[kayak karl]

but its inevitable you'll be sleeping in a shelter a fair amount of times. It's even mandatory at some points. there are about 4 nights you need to sleep in shelter if it is not full (Smokies). why do you think "a fair amount of times". im just asking before you go through all this.

[fastfoxengineering]

there are about 4 nights you need to sleep in shelter if it is not full (Smokies). why do you think "a fair amount of times". im just asking before you go through all this.

I guess I am under the assumption, that there will be times when you arrive to a shelter late. And instead of setting up the hammock, it is best to grab a spot in the shelter and head to bed.

[kayak karl]

you will be surprised how fast you get at setting up a hammock :) some people in shelters don't like late comers or night hikers :D

[WILLIAM HAYES]

Jacks R Better UQ and TQ, Neo Air Warbonnet DB =works fine

[scooterdogma]

Warbonnet SL, Thermarest women's Pro Lite Regular, Winter Warbonnet Yeti 3/4 UQ.For Three Season weather I use a synthetic Baby Orca 3/4 UQ. These set ups give me the option of the shelters and the ability to extend the temps of my UQ's when used together. I don't sweat much, so I put the Thermarest in my Western Mountaineering Bag on really cold nights.

I have used a CCF pad and a UQ in winter and doubled the CCF pad to sleep on in the Shelters. I slept well, but was a little sore in the mornings, that is why I switched to the Thermarest, no soreness in the morning. Good luck with your hike and hope to meet you on the trail.

[DaBrownie]

I had great success with double CCFs in very cold weather, never needed an expensive underquilt. 2 CCF pads is a lot of bulk, but cheap and effective. But you know what's easier? Sleeping on the ground.

Your post reads like you never actually slept in a hammock in the cold, just read about it on the internet. Give it a try first. Also try going our for 4 night (heck, that's just a long weekend). You're third day on the trail your perceptions about minimum acceptable comforts start to change.

[1azarus]

there is the social component -- maybe that's the issue. or there is the weather component -- maybe that's the issue.

social: everyone else sleeps side by side, chats and hangs out. you sleep in a hammock and you lose a large part of that. it is hard to tell in advance if you will miss that piece of the hike.

weather: no doubt, when it is cold and raining nobody is excited about setting up outside, hammock or tent... well, at least not many are. for one thing, it means waking up in the morning with a least some wet stuff. i think that is the most compelling reason for being able to use a shelter from time to time.

setup time: i agree with Kayak Karl -- not an issue. anyway, what else do you have to do?

comfort: no way to beat the hammock -- but it is more comfortable with an underquilt than a pad, period.

i have a neoair which i bring hiking (rarely) when i think i might need to sleep hammock-less in a shelter. come to think of it -- i've brought it along a handful of times and have never been forced to use it, so my comments about that comparison are worthless. that includes the Whites and the Smokies...

[fastfoxengineering]

I had great success with double CCFs in very cold weather, never needed an expensive underquilt. 2 CCF pads is a lot of bulk, but cheap and effective. But you know what's easier? Sleeping on the ground.

Your post reads like you never actually slept in a hammock in the cold, just read about it on the internet. Give it a try first. Also try going our for 4 night (heck, that's just a long weekend). You're third day on the trail your perceptions about minimum acceptable comforts start to change.

I have camped in my Hennessy a good amount of times. And when I first got it, I was completely unaware of how cold it can get in one. I camped out in the White Mtns with it in March. Temps got down to 28*F. I had a walmart ccf pad, a wool blanket, and a bulky cheap 20 synthetic bag. I was VERY cold that night. Now, after some trial and error. I have slept in 30* temps with a closed foam pad and a nice 20* bag. My old cheapie synthetic just was more like a 35*bag.

I feel as if with a nice extra wide ccf pad and my 20* down bag. I would be plenty warm in my hammock for a thru hike.

I've been out backpacking for 5 nights. But it was warm out, never dropped below 50* and I slept in my hammock every night. I am also proficient at setting up my hammock. I've prob set it up 60 times and I'm at the point where once I find my ideal trees, it takes 5-10 minutes before I'm in bed and that's taking my sweet time. No longer than my buddies who sleep in tents.

I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the extra wide pad, and next time I go out camping. I'm gonna sleep on that. Who knows, I LOVE a stiff bed.

Thanks for your input

[Monkeywrench]

Why is it inevitable that you sleep in a shelter a fair amount of time? The only place it's mandatory is in GSMNP, and that's just 4 nights out of your hike.

I thru-hiked with a hammock and simply committed to the hammock most of the time so carried no pad. I had my Thermarest sent to me for the Smokies, and again when I went through the Whites so I could do WFS and sleep in a few of the huts. Other than that I just slept in my hammock every night.

[Deadeye]

I like to sleep on the ground sometimes, like when you have the chance to sleep in a meadow on a perfect night, so I carry a pad. Here's what I carry: Warbonnet top quilt - 23 ounces, Warbonnet underquilt - 12.5 ounces, 1/2 of a z-rest pad (6 sections, 6 ounces) and a thermarest prolite shorty pad, 13 ounces.

All together, that's about the same weight a regular sleeping bag and a full-length inflatable.

The quilts are comfortable by themselves in most conditions in my hammock. If it's too cold to hang with them, I can use the pads inside the hammock, too, or I can go to ground with one or both pads, and put both quilts on top. The z-rest is on the outside of my pack, always handy for a sit pad, an afternoon snooze, to go under the inflatable pad to protect it, to bring in the hammock for my feet, etc.

That's my setup, very flexible for almost any conditions I'm going to encounter.

[DaBrownie]

Yea, the extra wide pad would be sweet. Good idea. Gotta keep the shoulders and thighs and knees warm when the hammock squeezes you. I also use to cut sections of a regular blue CCF, maybe 10" wide, stick 3 or 4 inside my bag. That helped too. I never used an underquilt as they always seemed like a lot of trouble and expense compared to CCF pads.

Most of my hiking is in the VA-MD-PA area. Sometimes I got set up for the night before tenters even found a spot sufficiently free of rocks. I haven't used a hammock for the last 2 years. Now you got me thinking about breaking it our of the closet again!

[kayak karl]

you do miss the social stuff in the shelter. the conversations to all hours, noises in the night, people climbing over you when nature calls, early starters and sometimes the occasional musician, but if you don't take a pad you will miss this. :( many times saying i wish i could stay, but the hammock you know :(

[wcgornto]

Of course, then there are those who hang their hammock inside the shelter ... and leave the eye bolts screwed into the beams for the next shelter hammock hanger.

[kayak karl]

in all the years i have never heard of that! eye bolts? really?

[1azarus]

you do miss the social stuff in the shelter. the conversations to all hours, noises in the night, people climbing over you when nature calls, early starters and sometimes the occasional musician, but if you don't take a pad you will miss this. :( many times saying i wish i could stay, but the hammock you know :(

i'm with you, KK... Hang out at the shelter for a bit, then wander off to the comfort of my hammock. Only time I sleep in a shelter is when there isn't anyone else around or I am just with a friend... As in mid winter. But I can understand wanting the flexibility. I guess.

[bigcranky]

I like to hammock near a shelter. That way I get the picnic table :), some social interaction if I want it, usually decent water, and the comfort and quiet of my own hammock. Shelter floors are hard and uncomfortable.

[Wise Old Owl]

in all the years i have never heard of that! eye bolts? really?


More likley Pad eyes that are rated 600 lbs - I have a pair in the basement from a Marine store. Came with some huge screws. I haven't seen it at any shelter round here. Kind of pointless as the setups are easy for the trees...

[Dogwood]

As far as what you sleep on in the shelter you have a lot already, possibly too much, in terms of insulation and a little comfort. Here's what I notice U have alraedy: UQ, TQ, 15*liner, hammock, backpack. All those items can be used to sleep on to getcha some insulation. Also throw in maps, books, unworn clothing, food bags, shoes, etc. I regularly cowboy with less carried insulation than that on the ground NOT in a shelter. No way would I carry more stuff(sleeping pad) for inside a shelter w/ your hammock set up - which to me is already a bit redundant and unnecessary.
I like the convenience of a shelter SOMETIMES(like cooking under it, sorting crap out, drying gear, etc) but hammock away from the shelter. I don't want to hike someone else's hike. I want to hike my hike. Can't really do that now when you're in a shelter full of other hikers all the time can ya? I'm w/ KK and lazarus in wanting to hammock away from shelters or simply not at shelters at all very often. I'm also on board with KK in regard to practicing setting up your hammock so it's not a long process which is a giood thing to be able to always do anyhow like when it's poring rain. You might switch out some of the stock hanging system hardware such as comes w/ Hennessy Hammocks to further make set up faster(Whoopie slings, Dutch Ti Hardware, carabiners, S-hooks, at least learn some quicker knots, etc)

[Meriadoc]

For the occasional meadow snooze I would use what you are already bringing. If shelters will be a regular thing for you I would bring a head to hip bone CCF pad of some sort. Dirt is much softer than the wood shelter floors.

[Kerosene]

If you're using a torso pad and trash compactor bag as an inner pack liner, just turn the bag inside out and put your pack in it before bed. That way you can still put your legs on your pack. I wouldn't wrap it tight, just leave the end open for a little air circulation. Might even dry your pack a bit.Same here.

[Kerosene]

Of course, then there are those who hang their hammock inside the shelter ... and leave the eye bolts screwed into the beams for the next shelter hammock hanger.I've seen it. Note that lean-to structures are not built to handle the stress of suspended hammocks.

[ZenMtn]

I had the exact same concerns a while back during my planning process. I knew that I was going to want to utilize the shelters during bad weather, the GSMNP, and when I want to kick it with trail friends (plus I love expanding my options). I eventually decided on a cozy JRB Greylock 4 (22 oz), Gossamer Gear sleep pad (4oz - thank you Andrew Skurka) which works well for keeping my legs and feet warm while in the hammock and back warm on the ground, and a Marmot Plasma 30 bag (23 oz).

So my sleep pad serves 3 purposes: Pack liner for my ULA OHM, lower body insulation while in hammock, and of course sleep pad/sitting pad in shelter/under the stars. My Plasma 30 serves as my "top quilt" in hammock and main bag on the ground. I can use my underquilt as added insulation/comfort item on those rough nights.

I have tested this system several times in temps as low as 20 degrees and slept like a hibernating bear, however; I would like to add a light extra heat via a bag liner. I know bag liners in hammocks suck butt bad so I am reluctant to go conventional. I have considered modifying a liner with a zipper or velcro but I hate to add on more weight. I just need something to carry me through the first few months begining in FEB. Any good advice expert hangers and hikers?

[Rocket Jones]

How about a light fleece or silk liner set up like a quilt? I made a summer fleece version with a sewn footbox, but left off the zippers, velcro, etc. Works great.

[Nuggz]

Right now I have a 15* degree UQ and a 40 TQ. I tested out the 15 and 40 combo a few days ago when the temp was 15 degrees. It was too cold for my liking. I've taken this setup down to 30 and have been fine though. I also have the small z-lite pad. I think I'll bring it along to sit on and use if I want to sleep on the ground. It adds about 10 oz, but brings a lot of versatility.

[trippyme]

What did you use to stay warm? And what kind of tarp setup did you have?