Circuit vs Kalais

[Odd Man Out]

Yes another Pack Shopper thread:

I will soon be getting a pack (section hiking - summer or three season - who know were). ULA Circuit is often recommended but also had my eye on the EH Kalais. Unfortunately the conventional wisdom of trying them on won't work as there are no retailer near by. They are rated for the same max weight and the sizes seem similar, although that is hard to judge exactly given the variable way that pack sizes are measured.

http://www.elementalhorizons.com/kalaispack.aspx
http://www.ula-equipment.com/product_p/circuit.htm

The Circuit includes hip belts (2?) which are an added cost for the Kalais. I think I would like these although I could just wear a fanny pack in front (I use a lot on day hikes). The Kalais seems to be a little lighter, even after removing some optional features from the Circuit and adding belt pouches to the Kalais. The Circuit says it has water bottle holsters, which might be nice, but I'm not sure what those are (can't tell from the picture). Are they talking about the side pouches or are these in addition to the side pouches? Initially they are about the same cost but the Kalais would be more if I bought the add-on waist pouches and holsters.

Anyone ever use a separate fanny pack worn in the front instead of integrated belt pouches?
What exactly are the water bottle holsters on the Circuit?
Can anyone comment on the differences between the two?

Thanks :-?
OMO

[Rocket Jones]

The hip belt is attached to the pack, which helps transfer the weight from the pack to your hips. Although it has belt pouches, it's not just a fanny pack style storage.

The water bottle holsters are loops on your shoulder straps to hold water bottles.

[blue indian]

I went through the same process you are going through now except I spend way too much money ordering and returning packs. I bought and returned all of the following: osprey aether 60, osprey talon 40, ula circuit, gossamer gear mariposa (new model), and the granite gear blaze ac 60. I like certain features and fit of all of the packs I just listed but could not find the balance between features, comfort, and weight that I felt suited my needs.

Then I found out about elemental horizons and sprang for a kalais. I got one custom made and added a hipbelt pocket. I cant say enough good things about Matthew over at E.E and his customer service and willingness to do custom work. You wont be disappointed.

As far as the kalais vs circuit goes, the thing I like about the kalais over the circuit is the stay system. The single aluminum stay going down the middle of the back on the circuit just didnt feel right to me. The kalais has a "V" shaped stay which I found more comfortable. I also like the compression system of the kalais better than the circuits. Also I believe the kalais is slightly lighter than the circuit.

That being said, ula makes awesome gear too and comes highly recommended as well. It honestly comes down to personal preference and fit.

[Odd Man Out]

I went through the same process you are going through now except I spend way too much money ordering and returning packs. I bought and returned all of the following: osprey aether 60, osprey talon 40, ula circuit, gossamer gear mariposa (new model), and the granite gear blaze ac 60. I like certain features and fit of all of the packs I just listed but could not find the balance between features, comfort, and weight that I felt suited my needs.

Then I found out about elemental horizons and sprang for a kalais. I got one custom made and added a hipbelt pocket. I cant say enough good things about Matthew over at E.E and his customer service and willingness to do custom work. You wont be disappointed.

As far as the kalais vs circuit goes, the thing I like about the kalais over the circuit is the stay system. The single aluminum stay going down the middle of the back on the circuit just didnt feel right to me. The kalais has a "V" shaped stay which I found more comfortable. I also like the compression system of the kalais better than the circuits. Also I believe the kalais is slightly lighter than the circuit.

That being said, ula makes awesome gear too and comes highly recommended as well. It honestly comes down to personal preference and fit.

Thanks. True that personal preference and fit are things others can't really help with, but the input is quite useful. Can you comment on the relative size/capacity of the two?

[Meriadoc]

Anyone ever use a separate fanny pack worn in the front instead of integrated belt pouches?
What exactly are the water bottle holsters on the Circuit?

I have used a separate fanny pack. It was okay but not great. With a fanny pack I tend to like it going off to one side, resting on a hip. Wearing a backpack, that doesn't really work. The other issue I found was that the small movement between the fanny pack strap and the panel of the backpack abraded the backpack. The nylon strap of the fanny pack was stronger than the mesh material.

I think the ones you are talking about on the circuit are two loops of elastic. They are attached to the shoulder straps. The top of a bottle goes in one and the bottom of the bottle is restrained by the other. It's a bit cumbersome and is prone to the bottles falling out with vigorous jumping. It's also not terribly fashionable and makes maneuvering through tight spaces difficult. But it does make a large amount of water easily accessible.

[Malto]

Here is my version of a fanny pack. It consists of four pouches each of which can hold a 32 oz. gatoraid bottle. Usually I have two bottles and use the other two for food. In addition I have two zipper pockets from mountain laurel designs for small stuff. This serves two purposes. First I tend to go many hours without stopping and this gives me access to everything I need without stopping. Second, I can take a total of about 6 lbs off my pack and transfer it to my hips. Here's a picture
25545
As worn...
25544

[blue indian]

The main body of the kalais is 2430 cu in which is about 40 liters. It feels much bigger than that though. Ive never had a problem fitting all my gear in there, but I guess it depends on how you pack it. The circuit is 2400 cu in. So they are relatively the same size in the main body. The circuit does have a much larger front pocket though. I was a little concerned about the kalais' front pocket not being big enough but was pleasantly surprised how much stuff I could get in there.

Another thing I really like about kalais is its versatility in regards to compression. It has an internal sleeve which can hold a ccf pad (or an inflatable) and if you have a really light load, say anything under 20lbs, you can remove the "V' stay and use a piece of ccf (or not) in the sleeve at which point you basically have a frameless pack. I have used it in this configuration and it did just fine. The roll top combined with the side compression straps and removable stay gives you the versatility to go from hauling 35 lbs to using it as a day pack if you so wished.

[brancher]

For what it's worth on this older thread, I just ordered a Kalais after obsessing about packs for three months. I have been using a GG Nimbus Meridian for years, and I still like it when I need to pack for old weather, but these days it's just too big for 3-season use (and way too big for my upcoming thru). After looking/trying the GG Gorilla, the Arc Blast, Granite Gear VC 60, and the Kalais, and talking to folks about everything from Kelty to AARN to LuxuryLite to REI and everything in between, there were only two or three packs I cared about all that much: The Kalais, the Ohm (or circuit), and the Arc Blast - they all have similar capacity and ergonomics, all offer a great comfort level for distance walking, and all are made here in the US. -- and when all's said and done, there's not that much difference in price (I think ULA's a little lower). I chose the Kalais because I like the slim height, and I like that it feels a little heavier-duty to me but still only weighs 27 oz. or so (I got a large). It also has a great stay system, dual-adjustment hip belt so I can adjust it to my iliac as needed (back comfort is important to me). Lastly it has a nice compression system with many lash points and external room for my ccf pad, tarp, etc as needed.

The truth is, there are many excellent packs out there including every one I mentioned above. At this level, they'e all at the top of their games, so you just need to ask yourself what's most important....weight, back support/pain, weight capacity, shoulder involvement, organization, etc, etc.

Hope this helps.

[Odd Man Out]

Yes, thanks Brancher. I am not able to get my hands on any of these to try in person before buying. At this point I think I'll go with my gut and stick with the Kalais. I have til summer to finish my gear overhall. The pack an quilt are the two big ticket items left to go.

[saltysack]

Love my circuit....great support from ula.


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[Dogwood]

If I'm going to fairly compare backpacks I feel I have to start with backpacks that have very similar volumes, within 5% of total volume of each other. That's my baseline for fair backpack comparisons. Not doing that from the start FOR ME makes comparisons easily confusing and unwieldly. The ULA Circuit in large(long) torso w/med hip belt is 4200 cubes. The EH Kalais is 3260 cubes. On that basis they are not in the same volume category so IMHO are going to make for an unfair comparison going forward from there.

Really like the EH Kalais greater customization options over the ULA Circuit though but BOTH packs offer a very nice selection of pack options.

[Gervais]

Wife and I have arranged to drive north an hour to try on & be fitted for Circuits at the ULA factory. So it's circuits for us.

[Odd Man Out]

If I'm going to fairly compare backpacks I feel I have to start with backpacks that have very similar volumes, within 5% of total volume of each other. That's my baseline for fair backpack comparisons. Not doing that from the start FOR ME makes comparisons easily confusing and unwieldly. The ULA Circuit in large(long) torso w/med hip belt is 4200 cubes. The EH Kalais is 3260 cubes. On that basis they are not in the same volume category so IMHO are going to make for an unfair comparison going forward from there.

Really like the EH Kalais greater customization options over the ULA Circuit though but BOTH packs offer a very nice selection of pack options.

But I noticed that the main compartment of the Kalais is 2770 ci vs 2400 for the Circuit (2900 if you include the Extension Collar). This is why I presumed them to be in the same general size category. The total for the Circuit includes 100 ci for hipbelt pockets which could be added to the Kalais. It seems the biggest difference is the side pockets (245 ci vs 700 ci). Can't say I know how I would pack it until I get everything together, but I wonder if Circuit really has all that much extra useable space. Without having my hands on them, it's hard to say.

[Dogwood]

But I noticed that the main compartment of the Kalais is 2770 ci vs 2400 for the Circuit (2900 if you include the Extension Collar). This is why I presumed them to be in the same general size category. The total for the Circuit includes 100 ci for hipbelt pockets which could be added to the Kalais. It seems the biggest difference is the side pockets (245 ci vs 700 ci). Can't say I know how I would pack it until I get everything together, but I wonder if Circuit really has all that much extra useable space. Without having my hands on them, it's hard to say.

I knew that might come up and was going to say something about it but I've already been WB User renamed Long Wind today. :) I really slacked off doing work today in favor of spending an inordinate amt of time here on WB. I've even resorted to living vicariously through Tipi Walter's recent hike.:D Seems he's one of the rare few who have done much hiking around here lately.

[brancher]

But I noticed that the main compartment of the Kalais is 2770 ci vs 2400 for the Circuit (2900 if you include the Extension Collar). This is why I presumed them to be in the same general size category. The total for the Circuit includes 100 ci for hipbelt pockets which could be added to the Kalais. It seems the biggest difference is the side pockets (245 ci vs 700 ci). Can't say I know how I would pack it until I get everything together, but I wonder if Circuit really has all that much extra useable space. Without having my hands on them, it's hard to say.

Bingo. Here's the issue: all pack manufacturers tell you the total volume, but it is often difficult to discern WHERE that volume is - for example, the Ohm is listed at a total of 3960 ci, but the body is only 2100 ci (2600 ci with extension -- but how much of that extension collar do you need to cinch the pack to a closed position?), which leaves a full 1300 for back and side pockets. Okay, I get that. But how do you determine the volume of a mesh pocket, and will you need 1300 ci of outside room? Do you do some math and estimate the stretchiness of the mesh, or do you put marbles in there til it breaks the mesh, or what? So the whole volume thing becomes a little problematic from maker to maker and oftentimes confusing to the end user. So after I determined whether I needed frame/no frame, stay/no stay, lid/no lid, etc, etc, I started with an idea of MY volume reqts, then looked at main body volume, then considered 'add-on' volume (figuring what i am most likely to store outside - for me that's a silny poncho/ground cloth, my sil or cuben tarp (in snakeskins) and stakes, a rain/wind shell depending on environment, some water, and anything wet), then compared that to the pack volume placement. When I considered all that, it tilted me toward the EH.

The other thing is max load. I can tell you from experience that the REI Flash 45 is a really great pack, distributes the volume very well, but it is NOT great at over 22 lbs load (for me, anyway) - even though REI says it's good to way more load than that. The Delrin rods are just a bit too flexible for me at those loads (again, personal preference kicks in), so I may break bad and build a DIY aluminum stay for it to see if it does better at higher loads. And I've read that many of the ul paks out there, even with stays, don't transfer weight to the hip belt as wonderfully as they say, especially at over 20-25 lbs or so. 20-25 lbs seems to be a benchmark, and for me, I estimated my max 'Monday Load' at around 25 or so (more realistically about 21-22, but I wanted a fudge factor) - again, the Kalais and the Arc Blast both just felt very nice as far as weight transfer. The EH was a tad 'stiffer', but that's an Internal vice External thing, I think.

As far as customer service, I spoke at length to all three companies, and all were professional, knowledgeable, and accommodating - heck, I actually stopped by the EH place and talked to Matthew for about 2 hours one afternoon (probably the longest afternoon of his life, I guess...), and Zpacks and ULA invited me to do the same thing. They all love what they do, all pursue it with a passion, and all want you to be happy and have a proper fit.

And they are all good.