View Full Version : Vermont to Maine: Start o/a 15 April
Hikerj53
01-12-2014, 11:36
All,
I've got the last section of the AT yet to complete. I stopped in Vermont in early May last year and would like to pick back up out of Burlington around 15 April. I suspect it will be intermittently cold/freezing and rainy, pretty much the way it was when I started out of HF last spring. I know July would be better but I have another trail to hit in the Rockies at that time.
Is re-supply going to be an issue that early in the season? I will have the latest data book. Any recommendations or suggestions would be greatly appreciated to include recommended supply stops and recommended hostels/motels. I have hiked the AT before in the middle of the winter and am familiar with how really cold, muddy and windy the trail can be.
Lone Star
max patch
01-12-2014, 12:10
The Green Mountain Club asks that no one hike during mud season, which ends Memorial Day weekend. Thats really all you need to know.
Slo-go'en
01-12-2014, 13:17
You might have hiked on the AT in winter but you haven't hiked in New England in the early spring before have you? If you had you'd not be planning this trip.
Please, Please don't do it. It will be frigg'en misserable. Everything shuts down during mud season. This is when motel owners take their vacations and go someplace else. Nothing is open to speak of after ski season ends and Memorial weekend. Even June can be real iffy as everyone here knows summer doesn't really start until after July 4th.
There's a long-term average snow depth chart of Mt Mansfield somewhere, it shows that average snow depth peaks mid-April. It's mud season at best, at worst, it's still winter in April. You'll have snow, mud, uncleared trails, and people giving you such a look...
4eyedbuzzard
01-12-2014, 15:44
Of all the times to pick, a mid-April start might be one of the worst possible choices. You will be "hiking with muck", not "walking with spring", all the way to Katahdin. Assume you get through "Vermud" by beginning of May, you'll then deal with late snow pack and melt and refreeze and spring storms in the Whites and western ME, and mud, raging stream fords, and more mud, hordes of black flies, and more mud, etc. The AMC huts that are open will be self-serve only until early June. Trail crews/maintainers will not have been out yet in most areas to clear blowdown, repair bog walks, bridges, signs, etc. Kennebec ferry will need to be arranged in advance if you get there before typical late May opening. Just not most people's idea of a good hike.
Can it be done, yes. How bad will it be? That depends on what sort of a Spring we have. Even with an early Spring with low rainfall it will be a very rough go. The Green Mountains are not very high nor steep, but they are wide and covered with trees so the sun never gets to melt the snow like it does further North in the White's. The melt water does not rush away. It slowly trickles through the thick overburden creating very swampy conditions on the slopes creating mud. The White's also can be done, but it won't be fun. You will need some crampons. The Winter snows on the trail will be consolidated, so when the heat of the sun works to melt it, the cold nights will refreeze it. This will give you an ice climb in the AM, mush in the PM even in Early June.
Have hikers ever completed this hike at this time of year? Yes. How tough are you?
The Green Mountain Club asks that no one hike during mud season, which ends Memorial Day weekend. Thats really all you need to know.
Trail Club arrogance, thats really all you need to know
Hikerj53
01-12-2014, 19:41
All,
Thanks for the feedback. I'll push off the final leg of the AT until late summer 2015.
Happy trails,
Lone Star
Slo-go'en
01-12-2014, 21:09
Trail Club arrogance, thats really all you need to know
Club arrogance? It's state law in the case where the LT traverses state land and just good practice everywhere else.
4eyedbuzzard
01-13-2014, 03:00
All,
Thanks for the feedback. I'll push off the final leg of the AT until late summer 2015.
Happy trails,
Lone StarProbably the best choice. Have you considered a thru of the Ouachita or other southern trails in April?
The Long Trail is either frozen or a muddy mess in April-May. What happens with a lot of travel in mud season is everyone goes off trail creating a wider trail or little sub trails which than become runoffs. Hiking in mud season ruins the trail and creates a lot of work to fix things.
Hikerj53
01-13-2014, 11:23
Buzzard,
Will probably do Hadrian's Wall or the Camino at that time instead. If Hadrian's, it won't be until May; the Camino in late April. Won't do both this year. Have to leave something for the future.
Lone Star
peakbagger
01-13-2014, 12:14
Smart person to take good advise. The 4000 footer club in the whites has a 12 month list (every peak on the list in all 12 months) called the grid. Most gridders flag April as the worst month to get as the snow pack gets rotten and the streams go crazy.
Blissful
01-13-2014, 14:33
Late summer / early fall is a great time Enjoy your last leg!
Trail Club arrogance, thats really all you need to know
You're kidding, right? If you'd like to meet some arrogant trail volunteers who spend hours repairing damage to trails done by inconsiderate hikers who choose to ignore pleas to stay off trails when they're most vulnerable, c'mon up... I'll introduce myself and others. Then I can show you a nice, dry 2-foot wide trail that you'd find a pleasure to hike on, and you can compare it to a 20-foot wide mud slough created by "tough" hikers that insist on hiking on closed trails. Seriously, Buddy (and I really don't mean that) most trails are maintained by volunteers, and it's pretty frustrating to hear comments like that from someone who clearly doesn't have a clue. I hope the OP has better sense.
You're kidding, right?Then I can show you a nice, dry 2-foot wide trail that you'd find a pleasure to hike on, and you can compare it to a 20-foot wide mud slough created by "tough" hikers that insist on hiking on closed trails. Seriously, Buddy (and I really don't mean that) most trails are maintained by volunteers, and it's pretty frustrating to hear comments like that from someone who clearly doesn't have a clue.
You're kidding, right? Seriously buddy, "Closed trails"...the trail club now has the authority to close the Appalachian Trail and keep hikers from hiking? Funny,I don't remember reading about that ability in either AWOL or the Companion. It's the peoples trail. It's pretty frustrating to hear comments like that from someone who clearly doesn't have a clue.
max patch
01-13-2014, 20:53
You're kidding, right? Seriously buddy, "Closed trails"...the trail club now has the authority to close the Appalachian Trail and keep hikers from hiking? Funny,I don't remember reading about that ability in either AWOL or the Companion. It's the peoples trail. It's pretty frustrating to hear comments like that from someone who clearly doesn't have a clue.
2014 Companion page 189:
"Avoid Vermont trails in "mud season" mid-Apr to Memorial Day. Hiking there in wet, sloppy conditions leads to serious Trail erosion.
max patch
01-13-2014, 21:11
2014 Companion page 189:
"Avoid Vermont trails in "mud season" mid-Apr to Memorial Day. Hiking there in wet, sloppy conditions leads to serious Trail erosion.
Similar comments on page 31 of 1992 Guide Book of the Long Trail that I don't feel like transcribing as they are longer and more detailed. Guide Book also states that trails on Camels Hump and Mt Mansfield are officially closed by the State from mid-April until Memorial Day weekend for this reason.
2014 Companion page 189:
"Avoid Vermont trails in "mud season" mid-Apr to Memorial Day. Hiking there in wet, sloppy conditions leads to serious Trail erosion.
Sounds like advice to me. Yet you post it here like the trail is closed.
4eyedbuzzard
01-13-2014, 22:03
It's the peoples trail.Yes, it is. And people means ALL the people collectively, not individually, just like any other public place. The vast majority listen to reasonable advice and requests from those involved in maintaining the trails, by refraining from hiking them when advised not to do so. That way ALL the people can enjoy better trail conditions and lessen both the damage to the environment and the amount of work maintainers must do. Seems to be just the polite, respectful thing to do.
4eyedbuzzard
01-13-2014, 22:32
Buzzard,
Will probably do Hadrian's Wall or the Camino at that time instead. If Hadrian's, it won't be until May; the Camino in late April. Won't do both this year. Have to leave something for the future.
Lone StarI am jealous of my fellow Texan. Okay, I'm a very recent Yankee transplant. But I'm still jealous. ;)
It's the peoples trail.
Interesting concept, but OK, I'll bite. It's the people's trail. That makes it your trail, my trail, our trail. Our trail crosses state and federal lands, and as far as I know, still crosses significant parcels of private land. It can be closed by those agencies, or by the landowners at any time. Our trail is built and maintained primarily by "arrogant" clubs along the trail. I do my part by spending 3 weekends each year doing volunteer trail maintenance, and giving a fair amount of money to my local arrogant club to help them do more maintenance and to buy easements on private property if they can't buy it outright.
The very least you can do for our trail is to respect it and stay off it when it's at it's most vulnerable.
This is Whiteblaze. The OP asked about a hike he wanted to take. Some trail club weenies decided to tell him a lie. They do it all the time on Whiteblaze. Promoting the trail club agenda is more important than an honest answer?
4eyedbuzzard
01-14-2014, 00:02
This is Whiteblaze. The OP asked about a hike he wanted to take. Some trail club weenies decided to tell him a lie. They do it all the time on Whiteblaze. Promoting the trail club agenda is more important than an honest answer?I do not believe they "told a lie". The AT runs on a mix of federal, state, municipal and private land in VT. I do not know about the sections down by Bennington, but VT State Forest lands are leased to Killington Ski resort in the Killington area and trail access is under either state or private control. Leaving Killington it runs on a mix of federal and some private lands that have a public access trail easement. It then runs on county and municipal lands belonging to Rutland. It reenters federal lands but then after Maine Junction it passes through Gifford Woods State Park. So, you are wrong in assuming that VT state and local governments do not have the authority to close the trail. They absolutely have both the authority and duty to do so. Them's the facts.
Plenty of good and sensible advise in this thread.
Not sure the AT is formally and legally closed every Mud Season, though. Does anyone have definitive info on that?
I think that Moldy is taking exception to the idea that some of the GMC's strong recommendations for the AT come across as legal mandates for the AT in Vermont. Even if the actual closures are limited to specific sections of the Long Trail north of the Junction.
I don't think anyone in this thread has said that, but I do find that elsewhere online.
Slo-go'en
01-14-2014, 13:04
No, the AT is not formally closed during mud season. The fact that the state feels it has to have a law closing part of the (long) trail during mud season was used as an example for why you shouldn't be hiking anywhere in Vermont (or NH or ME) during mud season.
Go ahead and do it if you want but I'll guarentte you'll never want to do it again and won't be recommending to others that they do it. Just don't walk around the mud puddles and don't be suprised when you sink down to your knee and come back out without a boot!
max patch
01-14-2014, 13:10
This is Whiteblaze. The OP asked about a hike he wanted to take. Some trail club weenies decided to tell him a lie. They do it all the time on Whiteblaze. Promoting the trail club agenda is more important than an honest answer?
No one lied. I challenge you to post what you consider to be a lie.
You're kidding, right? If you'd like to meet some arrogant trail volunteers who spend hours repairing damage to trails done by inconsiderate hikers who choose to ignore pleas to stay off trails when they're most vulnerable, c'mon up... I'll introduce myself and others. Then I can show you a nice, dry 2-foot wide trail that you'd find a pleasure to hike on, and you can compare it to a 20-foot wide mud slough created by "tough" hikers that insist on hiking on closed trails. Seriously, Buddy (and I really don't mean that) most trails are maintained by volunteers, and it's pretty frustrating to hear comments like that from someone who clearly doesn't have a clue. I hope the OP has better sense.
"hiking on closed trails"
max patch
01-14-2014, 20:06
"hiking on closed trails"
I think Deadeye was trying to make a point rather than telling an intentional lie, however, reading the passage literally I stand corrected. Point to Moldy.
However, I think it is important to emphasize that when the Trail Club that is responsible for maintaining the Trail "strongly urges" that the trail not be hiked and gives the reasons why then those wishes should be granted. Perhaps you can hike it legally but you're an azzhole if you do so.