View Full Version : Wide toebox, overall wide-width trail runners
I need a trail runner with a wide toebox, particularly wide on the outboard latteral side, i.e., towards the "little toe" side of the foot, max width at the base of the toes (I have bunionettes). A "close-but-no-cigar" shoe might work for me for a few tens of miles, but then start to ache after that. On one shakedown trip in, I think, 2007 I bailed after about 50 miles into a hike because of this. Shoe had seemed fine up to then.
I used first- and then second-generation Golite shoes to hike the PCT, but then when I wanted more shoes I found the manufacturer had changed the 'last' in newer models, i.e., the sort of default foot mold/shape so that they (I tried a couple of different types) were now just slightly too narrow.
I was fortunate to move on to Asics Gel-Kahana 4 shoes. I'm nominally about a size 10 but got these in size 11.5 and 4E width, and they worked *great* on the CDT in 2011. I bought I think nine pairs of these.
Now I'm out, and need another shoe. The current generation of what's still named 'Gel-Kahana' is 6, but (listen for violin music in background) this again isn't the same shoe --- measurably (literally) narrower in the toebox area. I've not walked the requisite 50 miles, but I'm unhappily suspecting that they won't cut it.
So I spent a lot of time online looking at shoe profile images, reading customer feedback, looking particularly for discussions of this specific issue. At a local store I tried a couple of pairs of New Balance (I think 610's and another model) that offered a 4E width (many don't offer anything but 'D'), and they were not all that wide either. And I was just in my street socks, never mind additional volume needed for a pair of thick wool socks in snow. There were some Adida brand shoes there, but the shoe insert was hard-glued in place in these, which strikes me as wildly ludicrous (I use custom orthodics). And they weren't all that wide either.
I don't believe I'm some sort of freak, so I still maintain some hope that an off-the-shelf shoe can work for me. Any pointers to shoes to consider would be very much appreciated. By preference trail runners, but also plain running shoes, or non-goretex "light hikers" that approach the breatheability and weight of a good trail runner.
TIA !
Feral Bill
01-12-2014, 12:53
You do not need to be a freak of nature to have trouble finding shoes that fit. Almost every company makes 1,000 styles and colors of funtionally identical footwear, in 6 sizes and one width.:( My wife has long, narrow feet and is endlessly frustrated. Your best bet may be New Balance, or perhaps one of the many outdoor stores in your area can help you. Best of luck.
Hello BrianLe I had the very same problem. I hiked in Asics 4 and loved them. Got the Asics 6 and it was like they were made by another company. Not as good a fit. So I got a pair of Merrells and got the fit needed. Only problem is the Merrell shoe is heavier, but it works for me. I am still looking for a light trail runner that fits as well. 4-iron
Thanks 4-iron! Which particular Merrell shoe did you get? Glad to see someone with such specific experience overlap (same shoe) !
inov8 tends to have. wider toe box but they are often close to zero drip so that may not work for you.
I've taken to cutting the toe box where my little toe is to relieve the squeeze. If I get shoes too big my toes fit but they cause other problems.
Holy typos! Sorry. Among other things I meant zero drop, not zero drip!
Son Driven
01-12-2014, 20:30
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?100810-Minimalist-footwear-with-ankle-protection-(not-support)&p=1833774&highlight=#post1833774
Good info on this thread.
Son Driven
01-12-2014, 20:41
Altra makes a wide toe box zero drop shoe, I hiked with and without super-feet in them. I seemed to do better w/super-feet (green). Altra has just come out with a super cushioned shoe. If you decide on using Altra's plan on buying at least four pairs, they break down relatively fast. Outside of the wear factor, they are a very comfortable shoe.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/1438766f448427fa
Rick Hancock
01-12-2014, 21:10
Vasque Velocity work's well for me and is a TRUE WIDE as opposed to using different thickness footbeds to achieve toe box fit. You can still find them online. New Balance also makes true wide trail runners. I have a stash of 5 pairs of Vasque that I rotate using!
Check out the Ahnu Morega Mesh. Offered in one width only but it handles 4e and wide heel easily.
Thanks 4-iron! Which particular Merrell shoe did you get? Glad to see someone with such specific experience overlap (same shoe) ! I Switched to Merrell Moab Ventilator wide and got a great fit, but paid a penalty of a heavier shoe. BTW I did not get the Gore-Tex version as they take a long time to dry. I might purchase the Gore-Tex version to do some day hiking but not for long distance hiking. 4-iron
ULterEgo
01-15-2014, 12:15
I've had good luck with New Balance trail runners in 4E width. Just make sure you order from a distributor that has free returns.
I really like my Solomon's but they are not that durable..............they have replaced 2 pairs = 3 pairs for the price of one.
Great lateral support, like the speed lacing system, have wide feet, tough for me to find any shoes that fit right, like these a lot.
Anyone try the NB MT1210 Leadville's? I also need a 4E, and these look interesting. Thanks!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I concur on trying to fit a pair of the Merrell Moab Ventilators. They do make wide sizes and have a fairly generous toe box. Good for about 500 miles, or a bit more if you are fortunate. I use green Superfeet with them.
Just FYI, I went to my local REI store yesterday and was able to try on a pair of Merrell Moab Ventilators, the low (not high ankle) model, in my 11.5 size and the 'wide' version. The box said 'wide', and the salesman assured me that the shoes were in the right box, but they didn't seem all that wide to me. I wore my old Asics Gel-Kahana 4 shoes to compare them, and the salesman agreed that the older Gel-Kahana's had visibly much more space at the base of the toes --- where I need it. I'm pretty sure in any event that these shoes aren't wide enough at the base of my toes.
He suggested I look into the possibility of special models from standard manufacturers. I looked a fair bit online, but the pickings seem to be slim. Try searching for '6E' width to get a feel for what I mean. It sounds like the difference between 'D' and '2E' is just a couple of millimeters, with a couple more millimeters thrown in there to go to 4E.
I'm starting to think that I'll start walking with whatever seems the best compromise I can find, expecting to slash open the sides of the shoes as soon as my feet start feeling sore. No big deal I guess as I don't go for goretex shoes anyway, so long as the openings don't let in too much trail debris or open up to become an overall durability issue.
Wülfgang
07-20-2014, 12:42
I've also had good experience with the Merrell Moab in 2E. This is the ONLY shoe I have found that provides all-day comfort for wide feet.....and if I get blisters it's because of my socks, not the shoe. They are not the lightest (about 15 oz per shoe), but it's the best compromise I have found.
There are a handful of other options out there for wide feet, but the pickings are slim. I WISH La Sportiva made wides....none of the high-end trail runner manufacturers do.
Are the LL Bean 4E shoes not really wide either? Everything else I buy from them, jeans , shirts, etc. are huge. I was hoping their shoes and boots would be the same.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
I don't know how you feel about hiking in an ASICS model labeled for road running but it's my guess, barring everything else, that ASICS Kayano 20 or GT 2000 in 4E width would also fit your feet assuming your feet haven't widened since you last rocked the Kahana 6's 4e width. I just ordered both those models(Kayano 20 and GT 2000) in size 14 4e for UL(less than 20 lb loads) maintained trail hiking in warmer fairer weather on less abrasive trails. I figured I might not get the durability, protection, and supreme traction but I don't think I'll absolutely need it in those hiking conditions. I had no issues rocking road runners from Campo to KM on the PCT going UL, for example. I often retire road OR trail runner shoes from hiking service after about 800 miles max anyway. I have a large cutting the grass shoe collection. LOL. Going up 1.5 sizes from your normal size 10 to 11.5 4E Hmm? You may no longer have the size feet you once did?
I have struggled with this for years, finding the RIGHT hiking boots / shoes that fit me well. Have a wide foot plus my left foot is 1/2 size bigger. Always buy 1/2 size larger (learned the hard way on this one - lost toe nails from the down hills + not allowing for my feet swelling up), which means my right is one size larger, have to adjust volume.
Salomon's have been the best so far, also love the level of lateral support. They do wear out and are not cheap.
The other issue I have is I am older, weigh 210lbs (currently) + 30 lb pack = 240 lbs of impact on every step. As much as I would like to try trail runners like New Balance, question if they would provide enough support???
Any input there?
I just went through this and did not find a satisfactory trail runner for me. Had to settle on mid weight hikers. Keens in size 13 (my normal size is 12). And there's nothing odd about my shoe size.
The Keen have the reputation of being short-lived. So I'm curious to see if you run up a solution.
Wülfgang
07-22-2014, 10:48
I have struggled with this for years, finding the RIGHT hiking boots / shoes that fit me well. Have a wide foot plus my left foot is 1/2 size bigger. Always buy 1/2 size larger (learned the hard way on this one - lost toe nails from the down hills + not allowing for my feet swelling up), which means my right is one size larger, have to adjust volume.
Salomon's have been the best so far, also love the level of lateral support. They do wear out and are not cheap.
The other issue I have is I am older, weigh 210lbs (currently) + 30 lb pack = 240 lbs of impact on every step. As much as I would like to try trail runners like New Balance, question if they would provide enough support???
Any input there?
I would not recommend New Balances.
I'm about 215 lbs, and while they are great for casual wear or jogging, they are too soft and flexible for a trail. 230-240 lbs is a lot of weight to be bearing each step thousands of times per day, so unfortunately the compromise must be made between a slightly heavier, hotter, but stable shoe, and the coveted lightweight trail runners all us big guys want.
BL, have you checked out some of the Altra or Hoka models? Some have wide toeboxes.
Another Kevin
07-22-2014, 18:04
I would not recommend New Balances.
I'm about 215 lbs, and while they are great for casual wear or jogging, they are too soft and flexible for a trail. 230-240 lbs is a lot of weight to be bearing each step thousands of times per day, so unfortunately the compromise must be made between a slightly heavier, hotter, but stable shoe, and the coveted lightweight trail runners all us big guys want.
Uhm, whatever works for you. I actually do better in New Balance 480* than I do in heavy boots. In my case, the boots appear to offer ankle support by transferring the strain to my knees. I'm not as heavy as you, but I used to be heavier. I wore my New Balance trail runners just this past weekend, carrying a fairly heavy pack, in some pretty hideous terrain on an off-trail trip. My only foot problem was that the skin on my feet started getting inflamed from being constantly wet. I took a number of missteps into a river.
New Balance walking shoes, like the 409's I have on my feet right now, are not up to the rigours of the trail, for all the reasons you mention. But I walk to work in them, because they are lighter and cooler.
My wife, who is quite heavy and suffers from bunions, swears by New Balance 811 for support. She mail-orders them since she never can seem to find them in a store.
I have to replace both trail-runners and walking shoes a couple of times a year.
* There are a bunch of New Balance trail runners with numbers close to 480 that appear to differ from the 480 only in trim.
Not that the OP has any special status in these discussions (!), but FWIW what I ended up going with was Asics Gel-Kahana 6 shoes in 4E width. Hiked a month on the AT in March, and just finished hiking a western chunk of the PNT, all without any problems. I've got a few extra boxes of these set aside for more hiking over the next couple of years so ... life is good!
Good discussion - subscribed!
Red Cinema
04-30-2015, 18:24
This might be addressed in another thread, but earlier here someone mentioned "toe pain." I am not new to hiking, but do have new Merrell Moab boots that I've grown to despise. One problem just experienced in PA's Michaux State Forest along the AT: my toes hurt! What's up with that? Felt like insufficient length on the downhills was jamming my toes into the end of the boot. Otherwise have put good miles on them and not experienced this. I take a wide and probably need wider, too. Thoughts on toe pain causes and cures?
Buying shoes or boots is like buying gloves they need to just "fit".
If they're too big - feel long at the toe box, or too bulky around the forefoot and/or ankle, or too loose at the heel you'll hurt.
If they're too small - pinch your toes, pinch the forefoot or be too short (you'll bang your toes on a downslope) you'll know about it quick enough.
From your description you've encountered the last one.
I'd find a new, longer boot ASAP.
One other thing - don't believe advertised sizing. Most shoe lasts seem to have shrunk by 1 & a half to 2 sizes since the 1990s. Probably because shoes are being made in the far East and they're feet are smaller.
Odd Man Out
07-01-2015, 14:40
A few years ago, I found that the waterproof and non-waterproof Merrill Moab Ventillators fit very differently. The waterproof ones had less stiffness in the sole behind the heel so the shoe would fold when I took a step. The uppers would collapse and pinch the top of my foot right behind my toes (very painful). The non-waterproof versions fit great. I was surprised there was such a difference. Not sure if they are still like this, but if trying out the Moabs, make sure you try the right ones (for me that was the non-waterproof version).
It may have already been mentioned as I did not read the whole string of posts, but...
When you have decided which make, model and size of shoe is the right one for you have the salesman bring you 2 more pair of that make, model and size. Try every shoe on and see how they fit. Take the best fitting right and left shoe out of all the pairs. No two shoes are made exactly the same and, of course, no two feet are made exactly the same. I have been doing this for many years and I am convinced that pairs of shoes of the same size vary as much sometimes as almost a half size. Since my left foot is bigger than my right foot I can use the above method to find a better fitting pair of shoes.
I just went through this and did not find a satisfactory trail runner for me. Had to settle on mid weight hikers. Keens in size 13 (my normal size is 12). And there's nothing odd about my shoe size.
The Keen have the reputation of being short-lived. So I'm curious to see if you run up a solution.
I have wide flat feet......probably from going barefoot for many years....Ha!
Anyhow , I'm on my 3rd pair of Keens, heard the same thing about the soles not lasting but , hey, they fit like a glove so if I only get four or give hundred miles out of them, so be it. And with a generous dousing of Aquaseal, they keep the water out pretty well.
And yes, I also up the size from twelve to thirteen......wearing a thick wool sock, plus replace the insole with a "green superfeet". It does start to get expensive, probably $170.00 all told, but hey, everything is riding on my plates of meat.....
I don't buy the "flat 'cause I went shoeless for x years". That sounds like nature versus nurture to me.
1 - we _all_ get old, that effects the mechanics of how how we walk.
2 - shoe companies (just who is Keen anyway?) want to maximize profit. If "they" can do that by causing you and/or me to buy a pair and not demanding that they fit as well as they should so much the better. "There's a sucker born every minute."
3 - sizing (shoes, and clothes!) are not uniform from one company to the next. Just how long are we willing to put up with this c---?
Show me the company that sizes it's product for REAL people and I'll show you a winner.
(Steps down off soapbox and exits stage right).
Snowleopard
07-03-2015, 15:31
I have a bunion that gave me an instant blister. My podiatrist recommended toe spacers (https://nwfootankle.com/products). They need a really wide toe box to work. I used vivobarefoot for several years, but when I went to replace them they had changed the models and they really hurt my toes. nwfootankle has a list of shoes that are zero drop with wide toe box that work with their toe spacers (ie., need a pretty wide toe box to wear separators in shoes). https://nwfootankle.com/resources/111-Shoe%20List Some of these are suitable for hiking or trail running. Since my present shoes hurt my feet I'm making a concerted effort to find something (multiple shoes ordered, some will be returned).
The shoes I'm looking at are:
Lems (http://www.lemsshoes.com/ ). I tried their minimalist primal 2 shoe and it is almost great, but they only go up to size 12. It's a nice light soft shoe, well made and if it were a little bit bigger seemed like it would be perfect. Lems Boulder Boot goes to larger sizes and I have one on order.
Altra makes three trail running shoes with zero drop, wide toe box and more sole padding than Lems or Vivobarefoot ( https://www.altrarunning.com/running-shoes/men#Trail ); probably the soles have more grip than the others I mention. The Superior 2.0 (21mm stack height), Lone Peak 2.5 (24mm stack height, the 2.5 is improved over 2.0?) and Olympus 1.5 (36mm stack height!!!). From the reviews it seems like the Superior or Lone Peak would be better for hiking (better traction?). Sizing changes with each years model change! (:(: I've ordered a Lone Peak 2.5 also). For whatever reason, I found a lot of running shoe stores that used to carry Altra and no longer do (found NO ONE in Boston, Central Mass, S. NH that has them in stock).
SOM ( http://www.som-footwear.com/ ) makes a minimalist shoe with a thin Vibram sole that some people use hiking; it gets good reviews for comfort. It may not fit (12 is largest size), but I ordered one to try.
Be Real shoes look like vibram five toes, but don't separate the toes: http://berealshoes.com/ . I know less about these except that they're supposed to have a pretty wide toe box.
I tried a Topo and they didn't fit well. I'm currently using a 6E New Balance running and they're not that great. According to several good shoe stores, many running/trail shoes don't really vary the width of the last, just increase the volume of the toe box. That seems to match what my 6E NB shoes do and it doesn't work that well for me.
I'll review the Lem, Altra LP and SOM once I try them out.
Snowleopard
07-03-2015, 15:34
P.S. Many running shoe manufacturers change models each year. This year's model may not be the same as last years. Altras, in particular, sizing varies from model to model so you can't count on replacing your old shoe with a new model and have it fit at the same size. If you find something that fits and you like, it might make sense to buy several of that model before they change it again.
I Switched to Merrell Moab Ventilator wide and got a great fit, but paid a penalty of a heavier shoe. BTW I did not get the Gore-Tex version as they take a long time to dry. I might purchase the Gore-Tex version to do some day hiking but not for long distance hiking. 4-iron
Based on this response and many others like it, I purchased the Merrell Mob Ventilator in wide, non-Gortex model (size 13 weighs in at 1 pound, 4 ounces per shoe). I found it to be a great fit. Excellent toe box and still snug/good fit in the heel. Also, good volume as I have a medium high arch.
Traveler
07-04-2015, 06:21
A question here - I got a pair of Merrell Moab "water proof" running shoes last summer. I have about 300 miles on them now. I like the grip these shoes provide, but after a wet spring am finding they are as water proof as a newspaper. Apparently the manufacturer (like many others who make these kinds of shoes) has substituted their own version of Gore-Tex, which doesn't seem to perform well. Yesterday was terrible, with casual water on the trail not much deeper than an inch, my feet were soaked within minutes (no water on top of the shoe or into the shoe at the ankle).
My question is, does anyone know of a decent water resistant trail runner that can survive casual water? I am or will be in the market for a new pair, but no longer trust the claims of "our knock off Gore-Tex fabric works great".
Don't want to burst your bubble but goretex is a lab phenomenon. It works in testing, doesn't work in the real world. I have a pair of goretex hiking boots, the Keen something-or-others., goretex doesn't work in them nor has it worked in a tent I bought or the various jackets/shirts I've tried😡
Best solution for shoe? Get a pair with a true mesh upper, kind of $$ pricey though, and carry quick drying socks.
Because (drum roll maestro pleeze) guess what? - Your feet sweat. And you need to keep them dry or deal with the consequences.
Obviously Sandals would be the ideal solution.
Go barefoot? I ain't that throwback, ... yet - and having my piggies stuck out where the boulders can get at them doesn't appeal!
YRMV of course.
Traveler
07-04-2015, 10:14
Don't want to burst your bubble but goretex is a lab phenomenon. It works in testing, doesn't work in the real world. I have a pair of goretex hiking boots, the Keen something-or-others., goretex doesn't work in them nor has it worked in a tent I bought or the various jackets/shirts I've tried
Best solution for shoe? Get a pair with a true mesh upper, kind of $$ pricey though, and carry quick drying socks.
Because (drum roll maestro pleeze) guess what? - Your feet sweat. And you need to keep them dry or deal with the consequences.
Obviously Sandals would be the ideal solution.
Go barefoot? I ain't that throwback, ... yet - and having my piggies stuck out where the boulders can get at them doesn't appeal!
YRMV of course.
Good points all. The gore-tex boots I have used in the past all had a liner in them that allowed moisture to wick out, but prevented seepage coming in. However, manufacturers do claim these things are "water proof", which is why I was hoping someone had actually found a pair that would remain reasonably dry in minimal conditions like shallow surface water.
Today is a Sunday and for some reason I always seem to do lawn chores on Sunday, well I put my feet in a pair of rubber boots (non goretex lined) and took the weed eater out to trim around fences and such. 10 minutes later and my feet were swimming in sweat.
This is why I don't think much of goretex - my feet perspire and my experience has been there's no miracle fabric that helps that. Once the dampness is in my shoes _from whatever source_ it's there to stay unless I use a 2-layer sock combo. The first layer being the thin slick artificial fiber, then a medium weight wool blend AND I change them as often as is practical.
In other words my experience has been that my feet are damper, oftener, from the inside than out!
As usual (weasel word time) Your Results May Vary😊
Brooks Cascadia have a generally wider toe box.
Avoid the Cascadia 10s as they have a defective designed upper that breaks down/tears with prolonged use aka hiking lots.
Cascadia 8 are one of their best. Look for online clearances or ebay and ensure a return policy.
Vegan Packer
09-20-2015, 20:10
I have an even bigger challenge, because I have insoles and because I don't use leather products. I was using NewBalance 812, which come in a 6E width (no typo on the 6E). They have been great for my city life, and I use them for my exercise walks. Unfortunately, I have found that I need ankle support when I carry a pack on the trail, so I am back out looking for something that will work in a high top style that is vegan and comes in a 6E width. :confused:
oldwetherman
09-20-2015, 21:12
Check out this link. http://www.greatoutdoors.com/published/boot-fitting-guide
One of the sections of this website suggest a method of freezing boots to make the toe box wider. I've never tried it on trail runners but I can attest that it works on boots. My right foot is wider than my left and I "froze" it. Fixed my problem on several pairs of boots. There are some other interesting ideas on how to expand specific areas of footwear to accommodate bunions and other foot issues.
NJdreamer
09-20-2015, 22:32
Check out this link. http://www.greatoutdoors.com/published/boot-fitting-guide
One of the sections of this website suggest a method of freezing boots to make the toe box wider. I've never tried it on trail runners but I can attest that it works on boots. My right foot is wider than my left and I "froze" it. Fixed my problem on several pairs of boots. There are some other interesting ideas on how to expand specific areas of footwear to accommodate bunions and other foot issues.
Oldweatherman, wow, I have to try freezing some of my leather dress shoes. Maybe with this idea I won't be limited to buying wide shoes. Thanks for the tip.
It may have already been mentioned as I did not read the whole string of posts, but...
When you have decided which make, model and size of shoe is the right one for you have the salesman bring you 2 more pair of that make, model and size. Try every shoe on and see how they fit. Take the best fitting right and left shoe out of all the pairs. No two shoes are made exactly the same and, of course, no two feet are made exactly the same. I have been doing this for many years and I am convinced that pairs of shoes of the same size vary as much sometimes as almost a half size. Since my left foot is bigger than my right foot I can use the above method to find a better fitting pair of shoes.
+1 I agree. I've been doing that for yrs too and absolutely do find differences in how the same model and size shoes are constructed having some affect on long term comfort.
I have an even bigger challenge, because I have insoles and because I don't use leather products. I was using NewBalance 812, which come in a 6E width (no typo on the 6E). They have been great for my city life, and I use them for my exercise walks. Unfortunately, I have found that I need ankle support when I carry a pack on the trail, so I am back out looking for something that will work in a high top style that is vegan and comes in a 6E width. :confused:
Do not assume you absolutely need high tops for ankle support or protection. I can often still rock low cuts while supporting my ankles with an ankle/heel compression sleeve, taping the ankle/heel, or wrapping that same area mildly loosely with a flexible ACE bandage.
Vegan Packer
09-22-2015, 03:43
Do not assume you absolutely need high tops for ankle support or protection. I can often still rock low cuts while supporting my ankles with an ankle/heel compression sleeve, taping the ankle/heel, or wrapping that same area mildly loosely with a flexible ACE bandage.
That may just end out being the solution. Love my shoes. No blisters, and no other issues, but my ankles became really swollen on this last outing. It is definitely not a fluid accumulation or other health issue. Luckily, there was zero pain. I wouldn't have even noticed, had I not looked and seen them.
BTW, even though I do my utmost to prevent it, what I described as a different approach to supporting or protecting ankles, is what I'll do to heal sometimes deep painful heel/toe/foot cracks.
High Mileage
02-16-2016, 19:29
I'm going to use Altra trail running shoes on the PCT this year, I still have some fresh NB shoes that were not rugged enough for the A.T though.
They are uniquely known for their 0 drop design and the ergonomic toe box that cannot be found in any other shoe.