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HikerMom58
01-15-2014, 12:32
Hey Gals...

I just saw this! I had to share. Gotta love the humor in it & the really good practical advice too. :)

I like what she said at the end... "Hiker guys are rather chivalrous, and they tend to look out for the girls on the trail."

- See more at: http://blog.appalachiantrials.com/how-to-avoid-creepy-men-while-hiking/#sthash.edsMBQB4.dpuf

HeartFire
01-15-2014, 12:49
Maybe it's my age, but I have absolutely no problem telling people to bugger off. I also make sure everyone knows who the creep is - scumbags need to be outed - This doesn't pertain to just hiking - I have met lecherous men everywhere from starbucks, to religious institutions to the trail - their behavior is wrong and unacceptable. It is wrong for a victim to just meekly try to hide and ignore the problem, the person will strike the next available victim he or she comes across - It's your duty to 'out' this person to see that the behavior is not allowed to continue.
I was at starbucks one day and some old lecherous guy was hitting on this cute young thing behind the counter, he left, then came back to flirt - she was so embarrassed and didn't know what to do - I gave the guy a piece of my mine - he's never been back.

HeartFire
01-15-2014, 12:52
You should always maintain awareness of your surroundings, on the trail it's pretty easy to know who is in front of you and who is behind. find a safe group to hang with if someone is bothering you, and let them know what's going on. Hikers are very good at protecting their own, and yes, creeps of all kinds show up occasionally . Do not let the ruin the trail for you

MDSection12
01-15-2014, 12:56
Two thoughts:

1. This info is useful for everyone, not just females. 'Being nice' is a common behavior in normal life, on the trail it can lead to unwanted expectations. I've learned to become more reserved, and perhaps rude, on the trail to cut short interactions that I don't want to extend any longer.

2. Keep in mind ladies; some 'creeps' just suck at talking to girls. I've got a friend who is a lifelong creeper, but he really can't help it. Somewhere his idea of chivalry just comes off all wrong. I guess that's not your problem to deal with, but it bears mentioning... Not all creepers know they're creeping.

slbirdnerd
01-15-2014, 13:50
This is fantastic, thanks for sharing!

Gervais
01-15-2014, 15:26
Please don't avoid us. We only want to touch your hair. Where are the puppies George?

SawnieRobertson
01-15-2014, 15:37
A young man (spoiled brat in his 20s) and I were having a "discussion" of his behavior (dog theft) the previous hiking year. He and his unwitting bride had come upon me as I was gathering water at a spring in Tennessee. He was becoming more aggitated as I continued to confront him. (It was my dog.) My antenna was beginning to warn me that he might become violent. Then I looked up and saw a couple coming whom I knew from shelters before then. I walked over to them and asked if they would mind remaining there with me until he moved along. They were quite willing, especially since they had an unpleasant episode with him earlier that morning. In a few minutes with no way for him to lie successfully (as he did to the police the previous year), the young man and his bride hiked on. LESSON: 1. Try not to become a part of a spirited argument out in the middle of nowhere with the only witness present being attached to the other party to the argument. (Especially, I might add, if you already know his propensity for lying even to the authorities.) 2. Remember to make friends as you go along the trail. That mutual respect might come in handy at a bad moment in the middle of "nowhere."

George
01-15-2014, 18:07
Please don't avoid us. We only want to touch your hair. Where are the puppies George?

it's the rabbits, not the puppies - Lenny

squeezebox
01-15-2014, 18:13
I'm a 60 yr old man and I don't like creepy men either!

JAK
01-15-2014, 18:53
I'm a creepy man, and I think those were all good suggestions.
Would anyone like a honey bun?

CarlZ993
01-15-2014, 20:28
On the AT this year, there was one 'creepy guy' who got everyone's attention: Navigator. I encountered him in VA. In passing conversation, he had said that this was his third year in a row that he was attempting a thru-hike. Was a bit evasive about why he was unable to finish. Somewhere around Atkins or Pearisburg, he started hitting the sauce pretty hard (1 gal of wine in a sitting in Pearisburg). He started hitting on women & making them feel VERY uncomfortable. He tried picking fights with other hikers (police were called on him twice in Glasgow; I missed him by one day there). There were Police BOLOs (Be On LookOut) posted up & down the trail in hostels. I was asked by one trail angel in VT about him. Police were physically looking for him in NH @ the Welcome Hiker Hostel.

From the BOLO I read, there were no warrants issued for him at that time. Just a warning to watch out for him and to use caution when dealing with him as he had prior history for violence directed toward the police.

HikerMom58
01-15-2014, 21:33
Ha Ha!! Some of these comments are really funny! :P I like what everyone said... good thoughts!

The honey bun thing is really funny! The author of this blog hiked the trail this past year so that was coming from her own experiences.

CarlZ993... ur post is the hardest one to deal with in, IMHO, as a woman (or man) on the trail. Nothing can be done about these guys/gals until they harm themselves or someone else.

I love Heartfires second comment. We can't let these people keep us from the trail or ruin the trail for us.

Dogwood
01-16-2014, 02:51
it's the rabbits, not the puppies - Lenny

That's the best post I've read in awhile especially considering your WB user name.

Dogwood
01-16-2014, 03:54
...I was at starbucks one day and some old lecherous guy was hitting on this cute young thing behind the counter, he left, then came back to flirt - she was so embarrassed and didn't know what to do - I gave the guy a piece of my mine - he's never been back.

Uh oh, what Starbucks, when did this happen, and what did the guy look like? :)

We're not sure of the context in which those situations occurred she speaks about but seriously, some females seem immature quickly assuming things said or done by males are sexual advances when sometimes they are genuine innocent friendly positive comments/actions. Not all those situations she speaks about are always motivated by sexual advances towards her. Good example is her Honey Bun story. Seems like she was exaggerating things about a male giving her anything likening it to a guy buying her a drink in a bar. Maybe, she should get over yourself.

Wear what you want but it might be a good idea to have some prudence in doing so FOR BOTH GENDERS to avoid possible uncomfortable situations or potential advances. I know I would if I was hiking in a kilt w/ nothing on underneath or short running shorts when I sit down around others as a male out of respect for everyone. I think females can do the same w/ their hiking apparel choices and the way they behave at least to some degree. BTW, I sometimes hike in tights and have females acting forward(staring, offering come ons, asking blatantly forward questions, even touching, etc) which If I was a female and it was males doing that it could easily be defined as acting creepy. Males generally accept that though; sometimes are even proud about it. I rarely let it bother me. I do like that others, men and women, might make comments to me about fitness or being in good shape. And those I believe are largely innocently motivated. You know when things cross a line though and it becomes NOT innocent or NOT genuine anymore and are sexually motivated or sexist

Robin2013AT
01-16-2014, 08:36
you guys should take note of her part 2

http://appalachiantrailgirl.com/2014/01/15/how-not-to-be-a-creep-on-the-trail/

Lucy Lulu
01-16-2014, 09:27
There is some good advice in the posts above, and the original blog. I think everyone adjusts based on their own personality, but I follow some of my own basics.

I don't split rooms unless I know someone very well, regardless of the trail culture. I've not split many rooms.
I almost always say hi, but am initially very reserved when meeting people on the trail.
There have been a couple of wary encounters at shelters. I left the shelter first, and then left the trail until they passed and then I continued on my way. In most cases, I did not seem them again.
I usually camp and don't stay at shelters. This has always minimized any problems for me.
I appear as self-confident as I can, which seems to dissuade a lot of the "creeps."

A note on the sharing or accepting of food from other hikers. I've never had a guy display expectations after giving me food, or seen this occur. I really don't think this is a common problem, but then again, I don't typically stay over night at shelters.

RCBear
01-16-2014, 10:03
On the AT this year, there was one 'creepy guy' who got everyone's attention: Navigator. I encountered him in VA. In passing conversation, he had said that this was his third year in a row that he was attempting a thru-hike. Was a bit evasive about why he was unable to finish. Somewhere around Atkins or Pearisburg, he started hitting the sauce pretty hard (1 gal of wine in a sitting in Pearisburg). He started hitting on women & making them feel VERY uncomfortable. He tried picking fights with other hikers (police were called on him twice in Glasgow; I missed him by one day there). There were Police BOLOs (Be On LookOut) posted up & down the trail in hostels. I was asked by one trail angel in VT about him. Police were physically looking for him in NH @ the Welcome Hiker Hostel.

From the BOLO I read, there were no warrants issued for him at that time. Just a warning to watch out for him and to use caution when dealing with him as he had prior history for violence directed toward the police.

There's a difference between just being creepy and making women uncomfortable...and this guy. This guy, while obviously creepy, was an actual threat and women ignoring him probably will never succeed in changing his approach.

Just general creepiness is what I think this post is about. I never hesitate to pull a guy aside (not in front of the woman), and tell him that he is coming off as a creeper. No man should let that behavior by another man go unanswered. Just don't embarrass him in front of his "victim". That may make matters worse.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2

Hashbrown
01-16-2014, 16:30
Hey guys,

Megan/ Hashbrown, the writer in question here. Thanks for reading my article and showing your support. I'm glad I can provide both entertainment and advice.

Let me know if you guys have any topics you would like to hear more about!

Statue
01-16-2014, 17:26
Haha,

I just have to share this video.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2510597/Girls-reject-average-men-fall-attractive-ones-funny-video.html

Dogwood
01-16-2014, 18:53
Hi Hashbrown/Megan. After reading Part 2 that Robin linked to I gotcha. Absolutely right!

I would never act that way. What are you doing Friday night? Only kidding. Only kidding! :)

George
01-16-2014, 19:55
That's the best post I've read in awhile especially considering your WB user name.

I have encountered many people over the years that are familiar with the story, but forget the roles / actions of the characters

HikerMom58
01-16-2014, 20:50
Humm.... interesting thread.. HI HASHBROWN!! Good to "see" you! I liked ur blog... good insight and info. Thanks for sharing!

Statue.. that was an interesting link you shared but "those girls" aren't "hiking girls"-hiking girls aren't shallow... JK . ;P

Andrewsobo
01-16-2014, 20:56
Hey guys,

Megan/ Hashbrown, the writer in question here. Thanks for reading my article and showing your support. I'm glad I can provide both entertainment and advice.

Let me know if you guys have any topics you would like to hear more about!

great article. this is good for guys like me to read too, so we can avoid making girls uncomfortable. I did a long section hike, and while I didn't actually do anything creepy, I was definitely not as prepared as I could have been in this regard. I'm a shy guy who doesn't have a lot of "game" off the trail, so every female on the trail was like some sort of perfect wife candidate. I mean, all these self sufficient, in shape hikers are basically exactly the type of person I'd hope to find at home! with almost no experience with girls and no real knowledge of the power issues that my size compared to females creates in certain situation, it's easy to be the creepy guy but not even know it. So I just want to say it's good we are talking about this, and mute guys need to talk to each other.

oh and I only creepily asked one girl of I could kiss her, but she very politely declined (it was at a hostel) and we hiked together for another ten days after that, her invitation, and other than the one initial advance we had a great hiking friendship and still keep in touch.

The Weasel
01-16-2014, 21:25
Consider this a supplement to Law for Backpackers 101, which I'll repost in a day or three: f

ANYone who feels threatened in ANY way along the AT (or, for that matter, elsewhere), should make an immediate report to the nearest appropriate Law Enforcement Agency. If you (or a friend) has a cell phone that is operable, make the call IMMEDIATELY to 911, telling them it is not an emergency that requires a LEO get to you immediately (unless, of course, there is some physical contact or atteemp). Unwanted approaches by people, particularly unwanted sexual approaches, are unlawful and no one should just "shrug it off." Particularly with women, such things can be dangerous and at least scary, and there is no humorous component to any of it. Reporting it can, at the very least, assist LEAs in identifying possible trail stalkers or other problems, and you will be doing the Trail, others along it, and yourself a favor by making the report. Even if it comes several days after the incident, do so.

TW

Gervais
01-16-2014, 22:19
Looking for that ignore button/function now.



Consider this a supplement to Law for Backpackers 101, which I'll repost in a day or three: f

ANYone who feels threatened in ANY way along the AT (or, for that matter, elsewhere), should make an immediate report to the nearest appropriate Law Enforcement Agency. If you (or a friend) has a cell phone that is operable, make the call IMMEDIATELY to 911, telling them it is not an emergency that requires a LEO get to you immediately (unless, of course, there is some physical contact or atteemp). Unwanted approaches by people, particularly unwanted sexual approaches, are unlawful and no one should just "shrug it off." Particularly with women, such things can be dangerous and at least scary, and there is no humorous component to any of it. Reporting it can, at the very least, assist LEAs in identifying possible trail stalkers or other problems, and you will be doing the Trail, others along it, and yourself a favor by making the report. Even if it comes several days after the incident, do so.

TW

MDSection12
01-16-2014, 22:21
Consider this a supplement to Law for Backpackers 101, which I'll repost in a day or three: f

ANYone who feels threatened in ANY way along the AT (or, for that matter, elsewhere), should make an immediate report to the nearest appropriate Law Enforcement Agency. If you (or a friend) has a cell phone that is operable, make the call IMMEDIATELY to 911, telling them it is not an emergency that requires a LEO get to you immediately (unless, of course, there is some physical contact or atteemp). Unwanted approaches by people, particularly unwanted sexual approaches, are unlawful and no one should just "shrug it off." Particularly with women, such things can be dangerous and at least scary, and there is no humorous component to any of it. Reporting it can, at the very least, assist LEAs in identifying possible trail stalkers or other problems, and you will be doing the Trail, others along it, and yourself a favor by making the report. Even if it comes several days after the incident, do so.

TW
You call the 'non emergency' number for the police for non emergencies... Hence the name. This is pretty bad advice. Sorry.

The Weasel
01-16-2014, 23:48
You call the 'non emergency' number for the police for non emergencies... Hence the name. This is pretty bad advice. Sorry.

No, it's pretty GOOD advice:

1) You describe the situation to the operator. She/he decides if a LEO needs to be dispatched. If there is someone (especially that you don't know) is making unwanted contact with you, that's an emergency. The National Emergency Number Association agrees: "If you are unsure of whether your situation is an emergency, go ahead and call 9-1-1. The 9-1-1 call taker can determine if you need emergency assistance and can route you to the correct location."

2) Most hikers don't know what county they are in or what LEO to call. Shelters don't have phone books. "Non-emergency numbers" aren't the same ANYwhere. 911 will get you to a LEO quickly. This is why the 911 system was created.

3) Anyone who thinks threatening behavior, unwanted sexual approaches or other stalking behavior ISN'T an "emergency" doesn't warrant calling 911 (if possible) is just flat out wrong. Inhibiting people (especially women) from making calls to 911 by making it seem "wrong" to do that or not "important enough" for a 911 call is seriously mistaken. Most women know this; the ones who don't, and all men, need to know it too.

TW

MDSection12
01-17-2014, 00:01
No, it's pretty GOOD advice:

1) You describe the situation to the operator. She/he decides if a LEO needs to be dispatched. If there is someone (especially that you don't know) is making unwanted contact with you, that's an emergency. The National Emergency Number Association agrees: "If you are unsure of whether your situation is an emergency, go ahead and call 9-1-1. The 9-1-1 call taker can determine if you need emergency assistance and can route you to the correct location."

2) Most hikers don't know what county they are in or what LEO to call. Shelters don't have phone books. "Non-emergency numbers" aren't the same ANYwhere. 911 will get you to a LEO quickly. This is why the 911 system was created.

3) Anyone who thinks threatening behavior, unwanted sexual approaches or other stalking behavior ISN'T an "emergency" doesn't warrant calling 911 (if possible) is just flat out wrong. Inhibiting people (especially women) from making calls to 911 by making it seem "wrong" to do that or not "important enough" for a 911 call is seriously mistaken. Most women know this; the ones who don't, and all men, need to know it too.

TW
You say 'Unwanted approaches by people, particularly unwanted sexual approaches, are unlawful and no one should just "shrug it off."' That's an incredibly vague, and to some degree incorrect, thing to be telling people to call 911 over. Emergency services should be used for emergencies.

steve0423
01-17-2014, 12:08
In most jurisdictions using 911 for a “non-emergency” is actually against the law in and of itself. Plus I think most folks would be pretty upset if say they were in a serious car crash, their four year old was dying and they couldn’t get through to 911 because someone was tying up the last available line reporting some guy that really creeped them out with inappropriate behavior a couple days ago.
Just thinking out loud

RED-DOG
01-17-2014, 12:27
I would like that i have met quite a few creepy women on my thru-hikes so it's not just guys.

CarlZ993
01-17-2014, 12:42
You use 911 for all types of 'emergencies.' 'Suspicious person calls' are classified as emergencies. 'Stalking calls' are classified as emergencies.

Many Law Enforcement agencies have a 'non-emergency' phone number for service: 311. This is for such calls as Junk Vehicles, old thefts with no obvious clues or suspects (someone stole a potted plant off your front porch), etc.

Once the 'emergency call' comes in, the Law Enforcement agency will make several determinations: 1) is it something that can be handled over the phone & transferred to a non-emergency phone number (311)?; 2) if it is deemed an 'emergency,' the call is classified in to a priority classification & will be dispatched based on their priority protocol. The agency I retired from had 4 priority classifications. The lowest classification (4) often meant a long wait until the police showed up. The highest (1) meant an immediate dispatch of police.

I can't count the number of times people observed suspicious behavior or circumstances & didn't call the police. They rationalized the behavior in some fashion. A lot of crime could have been prevented or solved it people had called 911.

If you're not sure if the activity you're observing constitutes an 'emergency,' go ahead & call 911 and tell them what is going on & that you're not sure if you should use 911 or another number. The dispatcher can make that determination for the appropriate police response. Citizens aren't expected to have expertise in this process. It was my experience that the threshold for the abusing 911 is quite high. It usually meant multiple calls to 911 when the complainant has been told not to do so.

The Weasel
01-17-2014, 12:48
In most jurisdictions using 911 for a “non-emergency” is actually against the law in and of itself. Plus I think most folks would be pretty upset if say they were in a serious car crash, their four year old was dying and they couldn’t get through to 911 because someone was tying up the last available line reporting some guy that really creeped them out with inappropriate behavior a couple days ago.
Just thinking out loud



Yes, and most people would also agree that a beating and/or rape that was prevented by a phone call would be a reason to tell those parents not to be upset.

TW

The Weasel
01-17-2014, 12:49
News today: The Newtown murderer made postings on FB that were creepy and related to his killings, as did the kid in New Mexico the day before. I kind of wish someone had called 911 in each case. 911 has the capacity to let people get through.

TW

Furlough
01-17-2014, 12:52
In so much as no one should be made to feel uncomfortable by unwanted attention and actions of others, I agree with the basic thought behind this thread. But I do wonder if there might be some age bias at play here. If you are 2-3 decades older, are your actions construed as creepy, when like actions of someone in your age bracket are more tolerated? I find that certain things practiced by the younger set are a whole lot creepier than a guy/gal checking out another guys/gals fourth point of contact. Like Twerking What the F Over? Or the need to use social media to share photos of ALL your activities, or to advertise where you are, where you are going, where you have been and who you did what with and when. I can only imagine what creepy actions/activities this may enable.

But, back to the topic at hand as it applies to backpacking....maybe we should all remember that when in doubt, follow the good ole golden rule.

RCBear
01-17-2014, 13:01
I would like that i have met quite a few creepy women on my thru-hikes so it's not just guys.

Yeah, except guys don't get nervous around them or fear for their safety.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2

MDSection12
01-17-2014, 13:03
Yeah, except guys don't get nervous around them or fear for their safety.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2
Really? That's a bit of a generalization. Men are evil and wish to hurt women and women are kind and always mean well? This way of thinking sure is prevalent in our society.

RCBear
01-17-2014, 13:05
Really? That's a bit of a generalization. Men are evil and wish to hurt women and women are kind and always mean well? This way of thinking sure is prevalent in our society.

Come on MD...no man that I have ever known would be concerned with a creepy woman on the trail. We would either just ignore or tell to buzz off without fear of reprisal.

It's pretty much a no brainer.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2

RangerZ
01-17-2014, 13:10
Furlough - fourth point of contact - I know what you used to do

MDSection12
01-17-2014, 13:25
Come on MD...no man that I have ever known would be concerned with a creepy woman on the trail. We would either just ignore or tell to buzz off without fear of reprisal.

It's pretty much a no brainer.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2
A truly creepy woman would frighten me just as much as a man... I don't fear people because of their physicality, I fear their intentions. If I'm going to sleep in a shelter with someone creepy a woman could be just as dangerous as a man...

HikerMom58
01-17-2014, 13:56
A truly creepy woman would frighten me just as much as a man... I don't fear people because of their physicality, I fear their intentions. If I'm going to sleep in a shelter with someone creepy a woman could be just as dangerous as a man...

Hashbrown said she never felt threatened. We are talking about 2 different issues.

I have to agree with RCBear on this one.

Some women, on the trail, are on "the same page" as some men on the trail. In that case, watch your back, MD, right? ;) I think this thread is about the women that aren't on that page. :) Other posters have made some interesting comments as far as the vibes women can put out there. That can't be ignored either but, again, we aren't talking about that on this thread.

ChuckT
01-17-2014, 13:57
On 2 different hikes, AT and later PCT I encountered paired females where I got the feeling that something was not kosher. Never did figure it out. On another AT hike I met a woman hiking solo and wound up hiking the same pace for most of a week. I think we both considered it a trail related friendship and that worked.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

RCBear
01-17-2014, 14:01
A truly creepy woman would frighten me just as much as a man... I don't fear people because of their physicality, I fear their intentions. If I'm going to sleep in a shelter with someone creepy a woman could be just as dangerous as a man...

I think you are nitpicking at examples that are not in the context of this topic. We would all be concerned with sleeping next to Glenn Close...that's not what's being discussed. And physicality absolutely plays a large role. the instances of men believing they are being creeped on by a woman, and even further are frightened by it, have to be so rare that it passes as statistical insignificance. I can't imagine a man feeling anything more than slight annoyance if he were to be in that position. At which point we would wave our hand and shoo them away without too much thought about it. The reason you don't see a guy starting a thread like this should be pretty indicative of that in itself I would think. I have never once gone on a hike even remotely concerned with running into a woman that wants to eyeball me up and down with animal intentions. I'd probably feel awesome if they did :-)

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2

ChuckT
01-17-2014, 14:06
Mmm, not that simple. LEO are generally rather hesitant to get into anything other than an obvious crime situation. Hard enough when the evidence is straight forward, much less do-able when a situation is debatable. That being said I.doubt that any LEO would hesitate showing the flag especially where a female is involved and hopefully that is all that is needed.

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Drybones
01-17-2014, 14:35
1. Try not to become a part of a spirited argument out in the middle of nowhere ."

"A passer by who meddles in business not his own is like one who pulls a dog by the ears."

Dogwood
01-17-2014, 14:44
Hashbrown said she never felt threatened. We are talking about 2 different issues.

I have to agree with RCBear on this one.

Some women, on the trail, are on "the same page" as some men on the trail. In that case, watch your back, MD, right? ;) I think this thread is about the women that aren't on that page. :) Other posters have made some interesting comments as far as the vibes women can put out there. That can't be ignored either but, again, we aren't talking about that on this thread.

I'm glad HM said that. Let's remember men this is the female forum(see all the red?). Let's try offering some help to the females by considering their recommendations so we do not make them feel uncomfortable, threatened, or creeped out. This topic isn't about males being threatened by females.

MDSection12
01-17-2014, 16:39
Hashbrown said she never felt threatened. We are talking about 2 different issues.

I have to agree with RCBear on this one.

Some women, on the trail, are on "the same page" as some men on the trail. In that case, watch your back, MD, right? ;) I think this thread is about the women that aren't on that page. :) Other posters have made some interesting comments as far as the vibes women can put out there. That can't be ignored either but, again, we aren't talking about that on this thread.
You're right, I'm not talking about the subject Hashbrown was discussing anymore. My apologies I followed the drift when 911 came up... To me 'creepy' means I feel like I, or someone around me, may be threatened. I know it means something different to others. :)

Foresight
01-17-2014, 16:44
I think the litmus test is "Diva Cup". Just mention "Diva Cup" and any male that doesn't mysteriously remember something that he has to go take care of elsewhere is certifiably sketchy.

steve0423
01-17-2014, 16:48
[QUOTE=The Weasel;1835567]Yes, and most people would also agree that a beating and/or rape that was prevented by a phone call would be a reason to tell those parents not to be upset.

Now all "creepy guys" are rapist. I'm punching out and heading back to reality where my wife and daughters don't get assaulted and raped by every guy with no social skills.

not to down play the real issues being discussed in this thread

Demeter
01-20-2014, 09:32
I'm glad HM said that. Let's remember men this is the female forum(see all the red?). Let's try offering some help to the females by considering their recommendations so we do not make them feel uncomfortable, threatened, or creeped out. This topic isn't about males being threatened by females.

thanks Dogwood. I think sometimes these threads get slightly hijacked by the guys offering well-meaning advice :-)

that being said, I think some people are just more easily creeped out than others. I tend to be one of those people; kind of a loner who enjoys brief walks with others for some gentle companionship. hence I have selected my gear to be stealthy in the event I don't want to be so visible to passers by.

Drybones
01-20-2014, 11:57
A couple of thoughts on this topic:

1. Women want men to look at them...and again they dont want to be looked at...they have the delima of attracting men without attracting unwanted men...glad I dont have to deal with that problem.

2. It's natural for people, both men and women, to be attracted to things of beauty. I like to observe pretty women,but, dont take this wrong ladies, I'd rather see a beautiful dog or horse...hey, not saying I'm not attracted to a pretty lady though. Any thing of beauty is worth a look...and I do understand that a look sometimes can become more than it should be.

Alligator
01-20-2014, 12:15
Gentlemen you are getting out of hand. There are disproportionate crime statistics regarding gender. Time to back off and stop the arguing. If you can't avoid getting overly involved in these discussions put the forum on ignore please. Thanks.

Different Socks
01-20-2014, 13:44
I don't know if anyone has said this but just because you find a certain person creepy, doesn't mean the next person will.

HikerMom58
01-20-2014, 13:58
I don't know if anyone has said this but just because you find a certain person creepy, doesn't mean the next person will.

DS... I hear ya. What you're saying is true but really unless you have a sex change (don't even think about it ;)) you won't understand what this thread is addressing.

The first thread I posted on WB was coming from a female's perspective. Most guys didn't understand that one either. We see/feel things from a different place. It's real!

A big "thank you" shout out to the guys that try to understand! :D It's complicated!

Hashbrown
01-20-2014, 18:36
That's awesome that you found a great hiking partner! It's all about reading the signals. You'll know if someone enjoys your company!

Hashbrown
01-20-2014, 18:44
OK, clearly I don't use White Blaze often. The above post was meant as a reply to Dogwood.

HikerMom58
01-20-2014, 21:25
OK, clearly I don't use White Blaze often. The above post was meant as a reply to Dogwood.

OK, clearly you had the same problem I had when I first joined. ;) Soo... what you do is this- Find the reply that you want to reply too. Then just hit the the "Reply with Quote" (in this case, Dogwood's reply box) Then, start typing away after his [/QUOTE] Then, Hit reply.

If you want to multi-quote then simply click on the "+ thingie. After the last one is "chosen" then just click on "Reply With Quote.... there you go! :)

Dogwood is FUNny.... as I smile with warm thoughts of DW's posts.

Wise Old Owl
01-21-2014, 00:10
Well as a younger man married, a long time ago, I hiked a section from DWG to Wind Gap.. I walked into a empty shelter, I was 4-6 miles on top of what I thought was a 15 mile hike on a summers day. I knew I was dehydrated after the 10th mile. I had made several gross errors on a hot summers day. Fat, out of shape, haven't hiked in years and wanted to make a difference in my life I wanted to hike again. I collapsed on the shelter in a seated position as this was the destination on the floor. I had no idea where the water source was. I sat there for a while - two (MY Guess) 20-30 year old women with huge packs came up to the shelter. She took one look at my sorry dehydrated old ass and asked "You staying here?" I said "yes" planning to set up a heavy tent from my heavy pack far closer to the spigot... My spoken words were without thought or merit. With thought and a man nearby she quickly said "lets get to town"... later I found out for this thru person more than 10 miles after a similar amount and they did most of it in the dark. So misjudged and at the time feeling awful from the hike - I never forgot the moment.

Happy Trails Girls - I hope you don't make the same mistakes, give it some thought - yes you need to think about your fears, what is real and imagined.

I don't post here often - but when I do - I really wait a few pages and give it some thought.. this posts was done before by me a few years ago in a similar thread.

HikerMom58
01-21-2014, 00:29
Well as a younger man married, a long time ago, I hiked a section from DWG to Wind Gap.. I walked into a empty shelter, I was 4-6 miles on top of what I thought was a 15 mile hike on a summers day. I knew I was dehydrated after the 10th mile. I had made several gross errors on a hot summers day. Fat, out of shape, haven't hiked in years and wanted to make a difference in my life I wanted to hike again. I collapsed on the shelter in a seated position as this was the destination on the floor. I had no idea where the water source was. I sat there for a while - two (MY Guess) 20-30 year old women with huge packs came up to the shelter. She took one look at my sorry dehydrated old ass and asked "You staying here?" I said "yes" planning to set up a heavy tent from my heavy pack far closer to the spigot... My spoken words were without thought or merit. With thought and a man nearby she quickly said "lets get to town"... later I found out for this thru person more than 10 miles after a similar amount and they did most of it in the dark. So misjudged and at the time feeling awful from the hike - I never forgot the moment.

Happy Trails Girls - I hope you don't make the same mistakes, give it some thought - yes you need to think about your fears, what is real and imagined.

I don't post here often - but when I do - I really wait a few pages and give it some thought.. this posts was done before by me a few years ago in a similar thread.

Aww.. WOO. I feel bad that you were misjudged... that's horrible! :( I'm glad you posted.. I'm happy to see you! :)

ChuckT
01-21-2014, 08:20
Dry bones I think you are not 100% correct "Women want men to look at them..." as far as I can see (WARNING : Un-PC statement begins here-) the majority of women want to "look better" than the next woman present first. Then they are looking to see if men are looking. However you will never get a woman to admit it because women live in costum.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

sbeatrice13
01-21-2014, 11:36
haha nice, thanks for sharing !

pnkwolfe
01-21-2014, 11:48
Well as a younger man married, a long time ago, I hiked a section from DWG to Wind Gap.. I walked into a empty shelter, I was 4-6 miles on top of what I thought was a 15 mile hike on a summers day. I knew I was dehydrated after the 10th mile. I had made several gross errors on a hot summers day. Fat, out of shape, haven't hiked in years and wanted to make a difference in my life I wanted to hike again. I collapsed on the shelter in a seated position as this was the destination on the floor. I had no idea where the water source was. I sat there for a while - two (MY Guess) 20-30 year old women with huge packs came up to the shelter. She took one look at my sorry dehydrated old ass and asked "You staying here?" I said "yes" planning to set up a heavy tent from my heavy pack far closer to the spigot... My spoken words were without thought or merit. With thought and a man nearby she quickly said "lets get to town"... later I found out for this thru person more than 10 miles after a similar amount and they did most of it in the dark. So misjudged and at the time feeling awful from the hike - I never forgot the moment.

Happy Trails Girls - I hope you don't make the same mistakes, give it some thought - yes you need to think about your fears, what is real and imagined.

I don't post here often - but when I do - I really wait a few pages and give it some thought.. this posts was done before by me a few years ago in a similar thread.

Aww.. WOO. I feel bad that you were misjudged... that's horrible! :( I'm glad you posted.. I'm happy to see you! :)

I bet Owl felt bad at being misjudged. I bet he would have felt worse had he heat-stroked out for lack of somebody to help the creepy old guy. Glad you pulled through, Owl.

HikerMom58
01-21-2014, 12:17
I bet Owl felt bad at being misjudged. I bet he would have felt worse had he heat-stroked out for lack of somebody to help the creepy old guy. Glad you pulled through, Owl.

I agree with you pnkwolfe. People are judged unfairly all the time. I think in Owl's case, I would just keep talking... communicate, communicate. Like, Hey--- I'm not doing so well. I know you don't know me but I may need your help. I'm not a creepy guy just a lil dehydrated . It's a very humbling place to be...
People can't read your mind... you have to keep communicating. I'm guilty of thinking others can read my mind too. I do it all the time.

When people get comfortable around you they will ask you to do all kinds of favors for them. I was asked by a man, (I just met the day before) to help him put his socks on at the shelter. OKAY.. sure! He was a section hiker, first time out, I didn't mind but a lot of people wouldn't have done it or felt comfortable doing it. That's fine! Not sure what his motive was in asking me to help other than he was a struggling newbie backpacker, not in good shape.

Nutbrown
01-21-2014, 12:49
On the AT this year, there was one 'creepy guy' who got everyone's attention: Navigator. I encountered him in VA. In passing conversation, he had said that this was his third year in a row that he was attempting a thru-hike. Was a bit evasive about why he was unable to finish. Somewhere around Atkins or Pearisburg, he started hitting the sauce pretty hard (1 gal of wine in a sitting in Pearisburg). He started hitting on women & making them feel VERY uncomfortable. He tried picking fights with other hikers (police were called on him twice in Glasgow; I missed him by one day there). There were Police BOLOs (Be On LookOut) posted up & down the trail in hostels. I was asked by one trail angel in VT about him. Police were physically looking for him in NH @ the Welcome Hiker Hostel.

From the BOLO I read, there were no warrants issued for him at that time. Just a warning to watch out for him and to use caution when dealing with him as he had prior history for violence directed toward the police.

I wonder if he was the same creepy Navigator that my friends and I ran into a few years ago. He was indeed creepy, saying that his only reason for hiking was to get dirty hiker sex. We camped far away because of him.

JohnnySnook
09-13-2014, 05:10
Wow! This thread is a good read for both men and women! I'm sure woman out alone on the trail needs to be careful. They may feel alone and vulnerable on the trail, I would think more so in the first couple weeks or when locals are on the trail. I'm sure I'd be worried about my daughter, sister, or mom all the time.

If you real think about it how many women are raped or killed on the trail? I really have never looked to see. I think of the 5 murders in the recent years many where men. I have no idea about rapes.

I will say in any situation a confident woman is a force to be looked out for! I think most men will agree on this.

I do feel calling 911 on someone you just think is creepy kind of makes me irritated. If the guy is super creepy and asking many personal questions etc. but what if he just hasn't seen a good looking girl in a week and is being extra nice? Not all guys are bad.

I mean you could be a little buzzed at a party and a nice guys says "I'll walk you to your car" Next thing you know???? Thats for you fill into blanks. Could be locked up in a basement for years. If your extra flirty with a guy on the trail and he hits on you? What then. you didn't like him but? So don't do it.

When I hike the trail next year if you see a good looking 40 year old guy with a stringer full of fresh fish to share with a group of campers please don't come up and be extra nice to me. If you are I may get the wrong idea. So please don't call 911 on me. Thats what happens in many situations with a guy at a bar thats buy drink or maybe on trail with a steak or lobster he carried in. Women can try and manipulate the situation in their favor also. Just think about all the guys you would never hook up with but tease them for free drinks at a bar??

I would think if a woman knows the people in front of her and behind they will look out for her. If the guy gets aggressive they will stand up for her. If she falls for him and you wonder of to a tent with him then thats that.

Not sure if this makes total sense but I think some of it may ring true.

10-K
09-13-2014, 08:16
On the PCT in Oregon I hiked up behind a solo woman section hiker with a huge pack struggling up a climb. When she heard me I could tell she was startled and because I hadn't shaved in 3 months or bathed in quite a while I could instantly tell I made her nervous.

I just addressed it head on.. I said hi, my name is Tom, and my trail name is 10-k and that I was hiking the PCT. Then I told her that I was married, had 3 kids, lived in TN and was sorry if I made her nervous and asked if I could pass on her right. We hiked together for 9 miles after that, camped together at a lake and she woke up and told me bye when I hiked out in the morning.. :)

ChuckT
09-13-2014, 09:53
Sum gun, common courtesy. And it worked. Now who'd a thunk it.
Seriously - as a society we need to practice that more!

Wülfgang
09-13-2014, 12:40
How about a thread on how to avoid judgmental women?

i realize men are the ones who generally make the headlines for predatorial attacks but this is an extremely small percentage of men. Many of us are getting tired and frankly put off by women arbitrarily assigning the "creepy" label to any unfamiliar male. Women tolerate absolutely zero judgment from men---fair or unfair---so maybe in the interest of the equality women are so concerned about you could stop labeling every unknown male a potential creep.

Coffee
09-13-2014, 12:55
This is one of those topics that seem to be more of a problem on the internet than in real life. I haven't encountered very many solo women on my hiking trips but those I have met didn't cower in fear or run away. Most participated in the usual trail talk without signs of being fearful at all.

Avoid the obviously problematic questions like "Where are you camping tonight?", "Are you hiking alone?", and do not view the trail as a dating scene and probably 90% of the time no one is going to feel threatened or uncomfortable.

RED-DOG
09-13-2014, 13:08
Yeah, except guys don't get nervous around them or fear for their safety.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2
I wouldn't bet on that women can be just as mean and violent as a guy can.
Most women blows a simple conversation way out of context.

Traffic Jam
09-13-2014, 16:09
I have never met a man on the trail that I labeled as "creepy". However, I recently had an uncomfortable encounter and made a classic mistake. I allowed a guy who was mentally "off" to walk up to me and take something out of my hand all because I didn't want to be judgmental and offend him. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Sorry guys, I don't care if you're the nicest one on the planet, the next time that happens I'm going to be assertive and judgmental. :)

Seriously, man or woman, just be smart and respectful.

jimmyjam
09-13-2014, 18:23
[QUOTE=RED-DOG;1907872]I wouldn't bet on that women can be just as mean and violent as a guy can.


You must be talking about my evil sister.lol

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

Traveler
09-14-2014, 07:52
As an observation.... "Creepy" is a purely subjective term. I had a buddy I hiked with for a number of years. His company was great, he was exceptionally intelligent, was well experienced outdoorsman who added a lot to the days conversation from identifying subspecies of trees and wildflower to pursuing the concept of the superior being. He wasn't well dressed most of the time, his clothes were ill fitting giving him an unkempt look, he didn't shave while on the trail and his beard was spotty that further detracted from his physical appearance giving him a rather odd look. He also wouldn't look at you when he spoke, finding his words somewhere on the ground between him and the person he was talking to. His sense of humor was not what I would call bad, but sometimes poorly positioned in a group. Suffice to say, one needed a bit of time around him to "get" him.

I once made it to a shelter about an hour before he arrived. There was a group of people there, several women and men and I had a chance to hear the comments made about this fellow as he came into the shelter area and went about his business of unpacking for a meal and trying to have an exchange with new people. "Creepy" was a term used by the women pretty much exclusively, the men tended not to use many if any labels of that type. My pal was indeed sensitive to how he appeared to women when he was in "trail mode" and tried hard to avoid any conflicts and interact, but truth of the matter was, he was awkward around new people, especially women and tended to overcompensate.

There is a wide assortments of characters on the trail at any given time. Some are flamboyantly oddball in nature, others quiet to sullen. It's very easy to make a snap judgement of folks in the trail environment. I understand there is a different reality for women than men in society overall and as a result I think women may have additional filters they use to look at men as they appear in their world. However, after hearing the small crowd around a shelter discussing my friend before they knew we were together, it opened my eyes to how quickly people tend to reach a conclusion based on very little. Though sometimes this filtering works well and gets people away from those they feel may be dangerous or pose a problem. I believe this also limits the spectrum of acquaintances on a trail when using the same filters used in daily life. While there may be some "creeps" on the trail their numbers are small compared to those who aren't.

Perhaps the best way to avoid "creeps" on the trail is to examine the filters one uses in daily life and how they are applied into the atypical environment of trail life

ChuckT
09-14-2014, 08:23
AT traveler I think you nailed it in your last paragraph.

Coffee
09-14-2014, 08:38
There are going to be eccentric people on the trail but not all eccentric people are creepy. And some perfectly sociable people may end up being creeps. The worst sociopaths in the world are often charming sociable people.

A well known psychologist, Daniel Kahneman, wrote a book entitled "Thinking Fast and Slow" a few years ago. I read it to help with my decision making in business but the principles are equally valid in the context of this discussion. People make snap decisions about others ... Thinking fast ... And those decisions are not always optimal. However, there are powerful evolutionary reasons for how we think and it is perhaps understandable for people alone and miles from civilization to make snap judgements about others. Unfortunately this mental pattern could lead to unfairly stigmatizing others and/or provide a false sense of complacency by automatically assuming that sociable and attractive people are not creeps.

Ground Control
09-14-2014, 08:44
As an observation.... "Creepy" is a purely subjective term. I had a buddy I hiked with for a number of years. His company was great, he was exceptionally intelligent, was well experienced outdoorsman who added a lot to the days conversation from identifying subspecies of trees and wildflower to pursuing the concept of the superior being. He wasn't well dressed most of the time, his clothes were ill fitting giving him an unkempt look, he didn't shave while on the trail and his beard was spotty that further detracted from his physical appearance giving him a rather odd look. He also wouldn't look at you when he spoke, finding his words somewhere on the ground between him and the person he was talking to. His sense of humor was not what I would call bad, but sometimes poorly positioned in a group. Suffice to say, one needed a bit of time around him to "get" him.

I once made it to a shelter about an hour before he arrived. There was a group of people there, several women and men and I had a chance to hear the comments made about this fellow as he came into the shelter area and went about his business of unpacking for a meal and trying to have an exchange with new people. "Creepy" was a term used by the women pretty much exclusively, the men tended not to use many if any labels of that type. My pal was indeed sensitive to how he appeared to women when he was in "trail mode" and tried hard to avoid any conflicts and interact, but truth of the matter was, he was awkward around new people, especially women and tended to overcompensate.

There is a wide assortments of characters on the trail at any given time. Some are flamboyantly oddball in nature, others quiet to sullen. It's very easy to make a snap judgement of folks in the trail environment. I understand there is a different reality for women than men in society overall and as a result I think women may have additional filters they use to look at men as they appear in their world. However, after hearing the small crowd around a shelter discussing my friend before they knew we were together, it opened my eyes to how quickly people tend to reach a conclusion based on very little. Though sometimes this filtering works well and gets people away from those they feel may be dangerous or pose a problem. I believe this also limits the spectrum of acquaintances on a trail when using the same filters used in daily life. While there may be some "creeps" on the trail their numbers are small compared to those who aren't.

Perhaps the best way to avoid "creeps" on the trail is to examine the filters one uses in daily life and how they are applied into the atypical environment of trail life

Eloquently stated; such an excellent point.

"If you can learn a simple trick, Scout, you'll get along a lot better with all kinds of folks. You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view -- until you climb in his skin and walk around in it." -Atticus Finch

;)

Sarcasm the elf
09-14-2014, 09:55
It infuriates me when people who have never hiked with a dog jump into the the Dogs on the A.T. Forum and spout off their half formed opinions about what my dog and I should be doing when we are on the trail.

I can only imagine that the women on this site feel the same way each time men take over a thread in the female hiking forum...

Another Kevin
09-14-2014, 10:55
As an observation.... "Creepy" is a purely subjective term. I had a buddy I hiked with for a number of years. His company was great, he was exceptionally intelligent, was well experienced outdoorsman who added a lot to the days conversation from identifying subspecies of trees and wildflower to pursuing the concept of the superior being. He wasn't well dressed most of the time, his clothes were ill fitting giving him an unkempt look, he didn't shave while on the trail and his beard was spotty that further detracted from his physical appearance giving him a rather odd look. He also wouldn't look at you when he spoke, finding his words somewhere on the ground between him and the person he was talking to. His sense of humor was not what I would call bad, but sometimes poorly positioned in a group. Suffice to say, one needed a bit of time around him to "get" him.

Wow, I didn't know you'd met me on the trail! :D


It infuriates me when people who have never hiked with a dog jump into the the Dogs on the A.T. Forum and spout off their half formed opinions about what my dog and I should be doing when we are on the trail.

I can only imagine that the women on this site feel the same way each time men take over a thread in the female hiking forum...

This site needs a 'like' button. Can I plead that I follow this thread for my daughter's sake? (No, not really, Kevin. She's a grown woman and can look after herself!) And in a mostly-vain attempt to learn how not to be creepy? (Won't work, Kevin. Your first impression will always be a bit "off". You are a bit off!)

10-K
09-14-2014, 10:59
I can only imagine that the women on this site feel the same way each time men take over a thread in the female hiking forum...

Especially when the thread is about birth control, periods, and bras.

Traffic Jam
09-14-2014, 11:16
Wow, I didn't know you'd met me on the trail! :D



This site needs a 'like' button. Can I plead that I follow this thread for my daughter's sake? (No, not really, Kevin. She's a grown woman and can look after herself!) And in a mostly-vain attempt to learn how not to be creepy? (Won't work, Kevin. Your first impression will always be a bit "off". You are a bit off!)

As long as you are thinking logically and making rational statements, I will never label you as being "off". Actually, I'm more suspicious of the normal hikers. I haven't met many of them on the trail. I think it was Mountain Mike who said we're all just a bunch of misfits :).

squeezebox
09-14-2014, 11:43
As a few others have said "I doubt that the creepyness and the over-judgemental stuff happens very much on the trail."
but it's very easy to get off an a blog jag talking about it.

ChuckT
09-14-2014, 13:09
Hey elf, Smaug is coming back & she's still POed.

2Ply
09-14-2014, 13:24
Here's an interesting article on Spotting Dangerous People on the Appalachian Trail (http://appalachiantrail.com/20140910/5-ways-to-spot-dangerous-people-on-the-appalachian-trail/). It could apply to just about anywhere.

Captn
09-14-2014, 19:04
I've met a couple of guys and one gal on the trail, over the years, that I considered "creepy" .... The kind of person that makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck .... They usually start asking questions that are, well, "odd", you have to listen to that little voice .... And some people will likely be misjudged. I can also share this, before I remarried, in my early 40's, and being a friendly guy, it was amazing to me how many young women would be just down right rude if you were just polite. I am decent looking, dressed well, took care of myself and had good hygiene, but just the age difference was usually enough .... I can remember thinking that many guys my age must be real a-sholes to young women .... As I get older, I'm not sure that is entirely it ....

Traveler
09-15-2014, 11:49
<http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/miscred/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by AT Traveler http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsred/viewpost-right.png (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1907983#post1907983)As an observation.... "Creepy" is a purely subjective term. >
[QUOTE=Another Kevin;1908019]Wow, I didn't know you'd met me on the trail! :D

I was the one (perhaps one of several?) who followed you for a day, surrounded by a cloud of no-seeums, scratching my ear like a dog with fleas and mumbling versus to the Doors - "Lizard King", and trying very hard to be creepy neutral.

ChuckT
09-15-2014, 12:18
Hmm. How does one go about being creepy neutral. No, wait ... not sure I want to know.

Seatbelt
09-15-2014, 12:39
Well my observation is that Hikermom has mastered the art--start a thread about avoiding creepy men and then dropping out of sight........

RED-DOG
09-15-2014, 12:47
It infuriates me when people who have never hiked with a dog jump into the the Dogs on the A.T. Forum and spout off their half formed opinions about what my dog and I should be doing when we are on the trail.

I can only imagine that the women on this site feel the same way each time men take over a thread in the female hiking forum...
What i am tired of is when someone Labels somebody without an informed oppion, they meet somebody then come on WB and call that person a creep why because that person has long hair hasn't shaved in a while, Don't label somebody without an informed oppion. most of all the people that have been labeled as creeps are not.
and when you dog climbs all over my gear that gives me the right to come on the Dog forum and spout my mouth off period.

Traffic Jam
09-15-2014, 16:44
What i am tired of is when someone Labels somebody without an informed oppion, they meet somebody then come on WB and call that person a creep why because that person has long hair hasn't shaved in a while, Don't label somebody without an informed oppion. most of all the people that have been labeled as creeps are not.
and when you dog climbs all over my gear that gives me the right to come on the Dog forum and spout my mouth off period.

I totally agree about the witch hunts, I hate them. Everyone has the right to be on the trail, even the homeless and mentally ill.

However, I'm pretty sure no one in this thread has called all long-haired, unshaven, male hikers, "creeps". I may be wrong, but I feel like you're being a little harsh. The sad fact is that 1 in 5 women are victims of an attempted or completed sexual assault. I guarantee there are women hikers who may not have been assaulted on the trail but have been assaulted before. Please keep that in mind when you're judging women for being overly cautious.

ChuckT
09-15-2014, 17:29
Well the lady folk seem to have left the building. But I suspect that creepie-ness is (WARNING:Completely un-pc comment) both subjective and situational.

Dogtra
09-15-2014, 20:54
I totally agree about the witch hunts, I hate them. Everyone has the right to be on the trail, even the homeless and mentally ill. However, I'm pretty sure no one in this thread has called all long-haired, unshaven, male hikers, "creeps". I may be wrong, but I feel like you're being a little harsh. The sad fact is that 1 in 5 women are victims of an attempted or completed sexual assault. I guarantee there are women hikers who may not have been assaulted on the trail but have been assaulted before. Please keep that in mind when you're judging women for being overly cautious.

+1

Already posted a creepy man story in the General sub-forum and don't feel like repeating it here. Thankfully I haven't really come across "creepy" hikers yet. Odd? Yes. Obnoxious? Yes. But not creep status. Solo hitch-hiking is a different beast entirely...

Would tell women to listen to their gut feelings when it comes to this. If there is something "off" about a man, even if you aren't fully aware of what it is, be careful and avoid if you can.

Wise Old Owl
09-24-2014, 21:59
This is really a negative sad thread that may be a first for the female's forum. First - I am totally dismayed at the men not able to stay out of the forum, I may be old school, but guys I most likely have less than 20 posts or less in the years I have been registered. We do not need or justify being part of this communication other than the community at large.

That being said we as a group of enthusiasts are at times poor judge of character, and camaraderie amongst the passion of backpacking or hiking - Find the good in people around you or hike faster alone. There is nothing wrong hiking alone... many have done this and are better because of it.

THINK - Both Men and Women have been accosted or murdered over the years on the AT, by psychopaths, a terrible tragedy.



Remember this - There are only two types of terrifying men on the trail, young and old - they are all annoying....The owl has spoken.

Dogwood
09-25-2014, 13:53
Spotting Dangerous People on the Appalachian Trail (http://appalachiantrail.com/20140910/5-ways-to-spot-dangerous-people-on-the-appalachian-trail/).

"Everyone has the right to be on the trail, even the homeless and mentally ill. However, I'm pretty sure no one in this thread has called all long-haired, unshaven, male hikers, "creeps".

Oh no. I was feeling good about myself because I had weeded myself from the creepy person category because I have short hair and I'm clean shaven, not homeless, and not mentally ill(as far as know but....). Then, I read psychopaths are charming and manipulative. I wonder if that simply makes me a capitalist business man or I really am a creepy psychopath? Are they one and the same?

12TH Man
10-26-2014, 13:45
Two years ago on my first long motorcycle ride of the year; mid point at 500 mi at a McDonalds in Danville. I happened to walk into the wrong bathroom. I'm used to the boys on the left. I was tired and walked to the left door. This doesn't work at this location. Two seconds in and out. Somewhat disconcerting to find no urinal. F#$% me!!!!!! Older lady outside laughing at me.
I do not hang out in the womens forum.
I saw Hiker Moms tag and decided to come on in.
Experiencing the same uncomfortable feeling.
But for different reasons. Can you imagine the uproar over a Male hiking forum?

squeezebox
10-27-2014, 03:27
One of the funny things about this whole issue is that given a certain statement, ? , non verbal stuff etc. 1 woman will take offense another won't.
I've had the experience of saying " Hi how are today? nice day isn't it? " the woman didn't make eye contact and picked up her walking pace.
I was chastised by a co-worked for saying hello to some kids walking home from school. Why did I say hello? Just to acknowledge your existance.
It's not easy being male and not knowing how a simple friendly statement might be taken the wrong way.
I'm following the conversation because I don't want to be taken as a creapy guy.

daddytwosticks
10-27-2014, 07:14
One of the funny things about this whole issue is that given a certain statement, ? , non verbal stuff etc. 1 woman will take offense another won't.
I've had the experience of saying " Hi how are today? nice day isn't it? " the woman didn't make eye contact and picked up her walking pace.
I was chastised by a co-worked for saying hello to some kids walking home from school. Why did I say hello? Just to acknowledge your existance.
It's not easy being male and not knowing how a simple friendly statement might be taken the wrong way.
I'm following the conversation because I don't want to be taken as a creapy guy.

It's not easy being male, middle-aged, and straight. WE are becoming the minority. :)

quasarr
10-27-2014, 08:22
One of the funny things about this whole issue is that given a certain statement, ? , non verbal stuff etc. 1 woman will take offense another won't.
I've had the experience of saying " Hi how are today? nice day isn't it? " the woman didn't make eye contact and picked up her walking pace.
I was chastised by a co-worked for saying hello to some kids walking home from school. Why did I say hello? Just to acknowledge your existance.
It's not easy being male and not knowing how a simple friendly statement might be taken the wrong way.
I'm following the conversation because I don't want to be taken as a creapy guy.

The important thing is to realize that women are people just like you who want to be treated like decent human beings. But at the same time....

It makes total sense for women to be suspicious of strange men

I often travel and hike solo, and I don't think women should be afraid to do so. But as others have pointed out, many women have experienced physical or sexual assault, especially "minor" things like groping. (myself included) And ALL women have experienced verbal harassment or unwanted attention like staring. It's hard for men to imagine what this is like. As a woman, you can't even walk down the street without the possibility of a vulgar comment, or worse.

In the blog from the OP, the author woke up to find a man she barely knew stroking her back. As a man, how would you feel if you woke up in a hotel room with another man stroking your back? You would be pretty freaked out, right? And what if people blamed you for sharing the hotel room in the first place? And what if you couldn't physically take him in a fight, if it came to it? That is like 1% of how women feel ALL THE TIME!!

As someone pointed out, men sometimes think a smile or polite response from a woman is a signal of sexual interest. That's why women might offer their "bitch face" or just leave - they don't want to risk it.

But it doesn't have to be this way!!

I have lived in Munich, Germany for a year, and for the first time in my life I can go for runs without fear that I will be harassed. No matter how I am dressed or how slow I run nobody says one thing to me - not the Turkish-German teenagers playing basketball, not the old men sitting on a park bench, and not even the construction workers. I can hardly describe how amazing it is!! I don't have to change my route or wear baggy clothing!! I don't have to worry about what time it gets dark!!! I can just go for a run like a normal human being who isn't afraid of anything!!! (I guess this is how men feel all the time??) :)

So as a man, what can you do?

The easy part is to obviously not do it yourself. The much harder part is to call it out when you see it. A woman might not say anything, or might even smile, because she wants to end this interaction as quickly as possible. (Am I happy when a man yells "Hey cutie!" at me? Of course not! But I will smile anyway because he might respond with violence if I react in a way he doesn't like. Or I could put on my "bitch face," depending on the situation.)

And the even harder part is to do the same with your friends. It's actually easier to call out a stranger than a friend who makes a sexist remark. But both are important if we want to have a society where harassment of women is not acceptable.

Sorry for the long post but this topic is obviously close to my heart. And I think it's good that men want to participate in this conversation, because that is the only way we can solve these problems!

snowcone
10-27-2014, 11:36
Oh man if anyone offers me a honey bun on the trail I'm takin it whether they are creeps or not

If I deem them on creep status....the plan is to snatch it and run away....win win situation

BuckeyeBill
10-27-2014, 21:46
Now you have me worried. I am the kind of guy that holds doors open for women. I also have a habit of saying "Thank you sweetie" Or Honey. I DEFINITELY
do not mean anything by it nor do I expect anything in return. It is just a habit of mine. So if we meet on the trail please don't take offense at what I say.

texas&fla
10-28-2014, 00:57
As a female, I can say that I have solo hiked in quite a few places. Generally, I run into solo guys or couples. I have met some really nice people over the years..Enjoyed great conversations, hikes, and even lunch with strangers. I also have crossed paths with a creeper a couple of times. One sticks out... He looked very nice..average joe kind of guy...from appearances alone...ok. But once I got close to him and we exchanged hellos... Then The creep vibe hit hard...like I could feel the hair on my neck stand up. There was nothing he said that did it.


I quickly moved on and totally changed my plans for the night. I hiked back to my vehicle and moved to a completely different section of the park I was visiting. Even had problems sleeping alone that night...even though I knew he was miles away.

The fear factor can be visceral at times. It is like our unconscious mind can pick up on bad intentions...or maybe my imagination just went into fearful overdrive in this instance. Who knows?

quasarr
10-28-2014, 06:12
Now you have me worried. I am the kind of guy that holds doors open for women. I also have a habit of saying "Thank you sweetie" Or Honey. I DEFINITELY
do not mean anything by it nor do I expect anything in return. It is just a habit of mine. So if we meet on the trail please don't take offense at what I say.

But you are talking about friendly comments, which is not the same as harassing someone. So what's the difference? Politeness! I grew up in the South so that is very important to me. :) (I also know that in the South and Midwest, it is normal to say "Hon or "Sweetie") And I think doing chivalrous things is great, because I see it as being polite to women. If only we had too much of that! :) Nobody could argue that it is polite to rub someone's back who you barely know, or to yell remarks at a woman going for a run. (or any of the situations that women have complained about being creepy in this thread)

If I was going inside a store and a guy opened the door for me and said, "There you go, hon" I would just say, "Thanks!" But if I was walking alone at night and a guy standing on the corner said, "There you go, hon!" I would be really creeped out! Same words, but one is a nice comment and the other is totally creepy.

One Half
10-28-2014, 11:23
As a female, I can say that I have solo hiked in quite a few places. Generally, I run into solo guys or couples. I have met some really nice people over the years..Enjoyed great conversations, hikes, and even lunch with strangers. I also have crossed paths with a creeper a couple of times. One sticks out... He looked very nice..average joe kind of guy...from appearances alone...ok. But once I got close to him and we exchanged hellos... Then The creep vibe hit hard...like I could feel the hair on my neck stand up. There was nothing he said that did it.


I quickly moved on and totally changed my plans for the night. I hiked back to my vehicle and moved to a completely different section of the park I was visiting. Even had problems sleeping alone that night...even though I knew he was miles away.

The fear factor can be visceral at times. It is like our unconscious mind can pick up on bad intentions...or maybe my imagination just went into fearful overdrive in this instance. Who knows?


Trust your instincts. There is a book that I gave to my niece called "the Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker. Not to scare you but its a good read. It is about women who were attacked and survived different situations and how they all KNEW something was "off" as soon as they were approached but they ignored the warning signals their body was sending them. It also talks about the conditioning we receive as women growing up to "be nice" and the stigma of not "being nice" and being labeled "&!tch" if we don't accept help from men or other women (because let's face it, there are some dangerous women out there too).

True story: I took a self defense class for women. One of the instructors had a sister that was killed by Bundy. He had his arm in a cast (not really broken) and asked for her help in the grocery store parking lot. When she tried to put his groceries in the car he whacked her over the head with the cast arm. Ended up killing her. Did she have any sense that this guy was off? No one knows. If she had and she had ignored him she would have been alive today.

So if your weird-o-meter is ringing, pay attention. Don't worry if you offend someones sensibilities.

BuckeyeBill
10-28-2014, 19:54
But you are talking about friendly comments, which is not the same as harassing someone. So what's the difference? Politeness! I grew up in the South so that is very important to me. :) (I also know that in the South and Midwest, it is normal to say "Hon or "Sweetie") And I think doing chivalrous things is great, because I see it as being polite to women. If only we had too much of that! :) Nobody could argue that it is polite to rub someone's back who you barely know, or to yell remarks at a woman going for a run. (or any of the situations that women have complained about being creepy in this thread)


If I was going inside a store and a guy opened the door for me and said, "There you go, hon" I would just say, "Thanks!" But if I was walking alone at night and a guy standing on the corner said, "There you go, hon!" I would be really creeped out! Same words, but one is a nice comment and the other is totally creepy.



OK you made me feel better. Chivalry is not dead.