Wind and Rain Jacket?

[MarkDHorn]

New to backpacking and to the A.T. I am in the beginning stages of researching gear and learning the fine art of layering.

One thing that I have noticed is that most wind jackets/shirts do not do well with more than light precipitation. I am wondering if there are any lightweight jackets that can handle both rain and wind as a go to outer layer. Maybe even one that could go all three seasons.

Any suggestions or threads that already deal with this issue?

[Slo-go'en]

This is a much debated question.

The consensess (and personal experiance) is nothing will really keep you dry. If the jacket doesn't leak through you'll just sweat like a pig anyway. (do pigs actually sweat?) The main purpose of a jacket is to simply help keep you warm and from getting completely soaking wet.

With that in mind, "breathable" jackets don't really work as well as you'd think or they claim. They do work better than a 100% plastic PVC rain jacket which will really make you sweat, but not so much better then a coated nylon jacket that they are worth a large amount of money.

Personally, I use a Cabela's 'Dry-Plus' rain jacket with real tree camo print (so I can blend in with the locals). It's light weight and packs small. In theory it breaths and in practice it works a bit better then a cheap coated nylon jacket and it wasn't overly expensive.

[colorado_rob]

This is a much debated question.

The consensess (and personal experiance) is nothing will really keep you dry. If the jacket doesn't leak through you'll just sweat like a pig anyway. (do pigs actually sweat?) The main purpose of a jacket is to simply help keep you warm and from getting completely soaking wet. Agree, exactly. I go as light as possible but still mostly waterproof and somewhat breathable, like the Dri Ducks ultralight rain suit, 5.5 ounce jacket, 5.5 ounce pants, $20. No, they are not durable, but one set lasted me about 800 miles last year on the AT, so just by a couple/few sets and you're good to go. When I say "lasted", the jacket was still fine for warmth/wind, just wasn't very waterproof anymore.

[10-K]

I see GoLite is at it again - discontinuing and changing their best products....

The GL Tumalo is a nice jacket. I use it for wind and rain but I swear it looks like the 2014 model is several oz heavier than the one I have.....Not sure what they did to it.

http://www.golite.com/Mens-Tumalo-Rain-Jacket-P46941.aspx

[bigcranky]

A good "hard shell" rain jacket is pretty much a requirement. Something like a Marmot Precip jacket (often on sale for $75 or so.) It is waterproof, slightly breathable, and you'll probably get wet inside from sweat while hiking, but you'll be warm.

[hikerboy57]

my mvg(most valuable gear)is my marmot mica. its as breathable as you're gonna find in a rain shell.weighs under half a pound

[RedBeerd]

If youre hot and sweaty like myself you will love pit zips. Ill never buy a rain jacket without them.

[Drybones]

If youre hot and sweaty like myself you will love pit zips. Ill never buy a rain jacket without them.

I've never understood the pit zips, if it's hot enough to open the zips I dont need the jacket. How much something cost has no relation to how well it fits your needs. I have a North Face, Helly Henson, and Cabela Paclite Goretex jacket and always end up using a $19.95 jacket I got at Academy. I've used it in heavy rain and high winds and snow and it's done great...never gotten wet.

[Spirit Walker]

Rain jackets block wind, but wind jackets don't repel rain. As noted above, it's hard to find a rain jacket that works for everybody. It can be worthwhile to carry a heavier better quality rain jacket in the early and late stages of your hike, when hypothermia is a real possibility, and then switch to a light coated nylon or driduck jacket in summer when you are mostly dealing with thunderstorms and won't be wearing the coat for very long. Many hikers don't bother with a coat at all if it's warm outside, but I tend to get chilled pretty easily even in midsummer, so I wear something to stay warm whenever it's raining.

[MDSection12]

I've never understood the pit zips, if it's hot enough to open the zips I dont need the jacket. How much something cost has no relation to how well it fits your needs. I have a North Face, Helly Henson, and Cabela Paclite Goretex jacket and always end up using a $19.95 jacket I got at Academy. I've used it in heavy rain and high winds and snow and it's done great...never gotten wet.
Just got done snowboarding... With pit zips open the whole time. In fact I generally leave them open. I also have some on my hoodie I hike in... Use those all the time too. Anytime I'm moving I generally like them.

[theGABE]

I would not bother with a wind jacket. A rain coat will do that and more, while only being slightly more in weight. Just remember to bring rain pants. They are worth it.

[Del Q]

I take a rain jacket, rain pants and a Go Lite wind shirt.........great gear. Wind shirt is a really versatile.

Breathable is pretty much BS in my view, pit zips are GREAT. precip is super gear, inexpensive.

If it is about 40 degrees or warmer, I have started hiking with no merino wool tee shirt, just a rain jacket, works really well.

I am 220 lbs, with a pack, 250lbs, reality is sweat happens. Making miles, ups and downs.

When I get to camp, layer up, balaclava, tent, get into bag, hydrate, drink (scotch or whisky), eat

The key lesson I have learned the hard way, "easier to stay warm then get warm", DO NOT GET COLD!

Check out Nimblewill Nomad's gear list, if he is not an authority on gear not sure who is.

[SunnyWalker]

Im with BignCranky on the Marmot PreCip. I bought mine on Ebay, brand new, for $65 bucks.

[Dogwood]

This is a very good compromise on a truly WP Rain jacket(by industry standards) but is light wt enough and breathable enough to function also as a wind jacket. (20,000 mm hydrostatic head is WP by industry standards and 20,000 g/m2 is breathable by industry standards). Jacket is seam taped. This is a true WP rain jacket. And has very good breathability. These stats are not based on antecdotal info.

http://www.backcountry.com/marmot-mica-jacket-mens

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterproof_fabric

Be careful though some marketing is occurring in that some are advertising what are really water resistant wind jackets/shirts as rain jackets. If you want a rain jacket, like for the AT type rain that will be experienced on an AT thru-hike, especially in COLDer temps, this could work. IMO I wouldn't get anything less than about 8000 mm hydrstatic head and look for taped or WP sealed seams in a rain jacket.

Does all this mean you will always absolutely stay totally bone dry in very heavy or prolonged heavier AT type rain - NO. BUT, remember you don't have to look at a rain jacket JUST for the rain as something to attempt to keep you absolutely bone dry. It can also do other things like reduce exposure, block wind, reduce convective heat loss, etc! And, don't discount that6 mant rain jackets have hoods, pockets, wrist/hem closures, etc

Check out Verber's site for some background on rain jackets. http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/clothing.html#rainshell

Check out Backpacking Light Rain Jacket reviews

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Rain-Jacket-Reviews/buying-advice AND http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Rain-Jacket-Reviews

http://www.tenpoundbackpack.com/3363/light-rain-jacket/

[Siarl]

I was looking at the Marmot Precip after having researched other rain jackets and it seemed like a good pick. While many items that are discussed will have detractors I will ask of those that have used the Marmot Precip, how well it kept you dry. I realize that many of us that will be on the trail will vary in body temperature. There will be those that get hot easily at lower temps and those (like myself) that get cold if it's lower than 73 degrees. If you wore the Marmot Precip, and it kept you dry, with what did you layer?

I read about waterproof yet breathable fabrics and how that technology works. The technology is just as iffy as the weather we will encounter. I am from the Appalachians and I can tell you that waterproof and breathable works about the same as a swamp cooler philosophy. It will only work under the right conditions and those conditions will not exist throughout the region all the time. I would rather try my luck with the tried and true raingear that uses air flow, pit zips, and layering technology. Just my two cents. Don't forget the question in regards to those that have worn the Marmot Precip.

[scooterdogma]

I have found the Zpack cuben Rain Jacket works as both for me. Mine has pit zips. When using it as a wind jacket you can put your arms through the pit zip opening for those tough uphill climbs. Works like a vest, keeping your core warm, but I don't overheat. Pretty light at 5.2 ounces.

[bigcranky]

I have owned and used a lot of WP/B jackets. I still have the Precip and a Montbell Peak jacket.

All of them have kept me "dry" in the sense that they keep the outside water from getting in, though after a few months of use you'll see spots where the coating has worn off inside and water does get in there. A good wp/b jacket with a well-designed hood will do a great job even in a heavy downpour.

But, in many cases, I was still wet inside the jacket -- anything from slightly damp to totally soaking wring-out-my-underwear wet. This came entirely from my own sweat, which overwhelmed the breathability of the jacket. Much of the time, in cold weather and light precipitation, I can wear a light wool base layer under my rain shell and be comfortable or slightly damp inside. But sometimes, when it's say 40-degrees and pouring rain and I am climbing a 2000 foot hill with a full pack, I will get to the top and be totally soaked inside. In both cases -- and this is the important part -- I am warm inside my rain shell. However, in chilly rain it's important to keep in mind that you can't really stop unless you can get out of the rain and change into dry clothing. So at the beginning of the day I would stuff my pockets with snacks and energy bars and just hike all day until I was done. No real lunch stop, no long breaks anywhere -- too easy to get very cold, very fast.

Siari, this is probably too much information, but I hope it helps.

[LAF]

If I didn't already have a wind/rain jacket I'd be giving serious consideration to the Montbell Versalite setup. Just a little under 12oz for jacket and pants. Not sure how well they would hold up on a thru and it's a bit of $$ (140? for the jacket) but not big $$$$ like Arcteryx (which hold up for a long time but are heavier, I've loved mine but there comes a time to move on). Still looking to talk with someone that actually has the Montbell. outdoorgearlabs has a review on it and I believe backpacking light may have a review as well. but reviews are never as good as talking to people that have used it.

[Shonryu]

I was on BPL and a lot of people we talking about these pants for wind/ rain. They are made out of a nylon ripstop so they are not waterproof. I decided to pull the plug for $20 including shipping and a pair. On my scales they come in at 3.9oz for a size XL. I plan cover them with water repealed and seem seal them. I tried them out today in really windy conditions and can say that for minimalist wind/ rain pants I am seriously impressed with the pants so far. Dont laugh when you find out where they are from lol.

http://www.discountdance.com/mobile/mobileDetail.php?TopCat=TB&SortOrder=P&ShopMobile=Style&style=701

[Drybones]

If I carried rain pants I'd take silnylon and make some, at 1.3 oz/yd I'm guessing about 4 oz for the pants....maybe less.

[Praha4]

10-K

I'm seeing similar things going on at Montbell with some of their products ... their new UL Thermawrap jacket looks like it's a couple ounces heavier.... they added zippers to the pockets, and the "updated" synthetic insulation appears heavier too.

[Praha4]

there's several nice softshell jackets on the market you could look at like the Patagonia Simple Guide jacket or the Outdoor Research Ferrosi jacket. But my experience with the Patty Guide jacket is it works best in light precip. My favorite wind/water shell is the Montbell Torrentflier UL Goretex shell jacket, have used it on all my hikes the last 2 years, better than any shell I've used before. On hikes I also take a Montbell Tachyon Anorak for UL wind protection, you can't find better insulation than this for wind and light precip that only weighs a couple ounces.

Like many have said, if you take wind out of the heat transfer equation, your thermal insulation improves dramatically out on the trail.

[Meriadoc]

My addition to the thread has already been stated by someone else. Please disregard. :)