PDA

View Full Version : Grand Canyon trip report (from south rim)



Venture Flt
01-28-2014, 23:35
Finally got around to compiling a trip report for 2012 GCNP hike from south rim. 5 day / 4 night route was: Hermit Trail to Tonto Trail down South Kaibab to Phantom Ranch, then back up Bright Angel. Great route--very doable and good intro to the canyon. We only had to deal with one dry camp, so minimum water hauling even though desert hike. Highly recommend this route if you're looking to plan a first trip there…no "bucket list" is complete without a trip to the Grand Canyon!

Details and pictures at: www.venturetrails.com/gcanyon.html

Feral Bill
01-29-2014, 00:44
I did a similar trip many years ago. You bring back great memories. Your photos are impressive, the lighting is awfully tough.

skinnbones
01-29-2014, 02:31
Great Pictures

HikerMom58
01-29-2014, 09:48
Love the pics! Thanks so much for sharing! :)

Conure
01-29-2014, 10:49
Looks awesome! Definitely on my "bucket list."

Turk6177
01-29-2014, 10:51
Did you get a back country permit in person or did you reserve one online far in advance? I have a site reserved on top for a few days in the end of March in hopes that I will be able to get a back country permit in person (getting one in advance via fax was not available since I did not send it in time). I am crossing my fingers that all my days camping will not be on the rim.

lonehiker
01-29-2014, 10:53
I've never done any overnight camping in the canyon but I have done 2 rim-to-rim-to-rims where I stayed at the lodge on the north rim both nights. Have also done 1 rim-to-rim. Very memorable trips with stellar views. I especially enjoyed the ascents on the north Kaibab trail.

Coffee
01-29-2014, 10:54
Great report! I hiked from the south to north rim last year in early June and hoping to get back to some of the lesser used trails sometime over the next few years. April sounds like much better weather compared to early June.

Odd Man Out
01-29-2014, 11:46
Wonderful. I've been researching/planning for possible GC hikes in the future. Unfortunately, my short term options are for solo hikes in the summer. Not sure if such an itinerary would be good for that kind of hike. I suppose others do it and survive?

Tipi Walter
01-29-2014, 12:01
Thanks for the trip report.

http://i.imgur.com/u75NXDO.jpg
This pic is great as it shows a Dana Design pack I think. Or maybe it's a Mystery Ranch G5000???

DandT40
01-29-2014, 12:50
Did you get a back country permit in person or did you reserve one online far in advance? I have a site reserved on top for a few days in the end of March in hopes that I will be able to get a back country permit in person (getting one in advance via fax was not available since I did not send it in time). I am crossing my fingers that all my days camping will not be on the rim.
Well if you make I'll see you there - I got my permit for the last week in march. :) I faxed in and got my third choice. We opted for one of the hotels for the night before we leave rather than camping otherwise might have seen you at mather too.

To the OP - Nice trip report. Like the photos! Can't wait to get out there. Looks like you guys had a great time.

colorado_rob
01-29-2014, 13:13
I've never done any overnight camping in the canyon but I have done 2 rim-to-rim-to-rims where I stayed at the lodge on the north rim both nights. Have also done 1 rim-to-rim. Very memorable trips with stellar views. I especially enjoyed the ascents on the north Kaibab trail. Yep, that stretch of N. Kaibab trail from Cottonwood camp to the North rim is one of the most fantastic trails anywhere, amazing in so many ways. We're heading back in april for our 12th annual rim-rim-rim, can't wait. early-mid april is the best compromise of not-too-cold-or-snowy on the rims and not-too-baking-hot at the river. alas, I have never spent a single night in the GC either, even after having crossed it 22 times.

lonehiker
01-29-2014, 13:50
Yep, that stretch of N. Kaibab trail from Cottonwood camp to the North rim is one of the most fantastic trails anywhere, amazing in so many ways. We're heading back in april for our 12th annual rim-rim-rim, can't wait. early-mid april is the best compromise of not-too-cold-or-snowy on the rims and not-too-baking-hot at the river. alas, I have never spent a single night in the GC either, even after having crossed it 22 times.

I've done it mid-October both times. The rim-to-rim was in April. I suspect that the weather is similar in April and October. Start that morning at around 30d and within 10 minutes you are in t-shirt. 80d at the bottom.

CarlZ993
01-29-2014, 15:05
Cool trip report. Excellent pics. I've got two GC trips in the works this year - March & May. The first is over Spring Break w/ my Boy Scout Venture Crew. The 2nd is with some guys I used to work w/ before we all retired. This will be my 13th & 14th time to the GC. Love that place. So awe-inspiring.

Venture Flt
01-29-2014, 20:58
Did you get a back country permit in person or did you reserve one online far in advance? I have a site reserved on top for a few days in the end of March in hopes that I will be able to get a back country permit in person (getting one in advance via fax was not available since I did not send it in time). I am crossing my fingers that all my days camping will not be on the rim.

We applied at midnight on the earliest date in advance (4 months I think) and were lucky to get our first choice. Good luck on your in-person request. Either way there are plenty of good day hikes to do from the rim and it's an amazing place whether from above or below.

jimmyjam
01-29-2014, 21:22
Nice trip report! I love hiking in the Grand Canyon and the southwest- especially Arizona and Utah.

Second Hand
01-30-2014, 05:22
I did a similar hike in 2011. One of the great experiences of my life! My father, brother, uncle and I cooked in the inner canyon! It was 129 degrees in the sun and 90+ at night! We ended up cowboy camping. I brought a tent because I was afraid of Scorpions and rattle snakes curling up next to me in the middle of the night... In that heat, I figured if a rattler wanted me, they could have me!

CarlZ993
01-30-2014, 10:39
We applied at midnight on the earliest date in advance (4 months I think) and were lucky to get our first choice. Good luck on your in-person request. Either way there are plenty of good day hikes to do from the rim and it's an amazing place whether from above or below.
On one of my many visits, I asked the Rangers @ the Backcountry Office how they do their permits. The park service gets a ton of faxed permit requests the day of & even a few days before. They take all the permits and shuffle them up randomly. They pull the first permit & they get their first option. They keep pulling permits & plugging people in until there are no further vacancies.

Personally, I fax my permit request the day before you're supposed to. If you fax on the first 'official' fax day, you'll get consistent busy signals. It may take you a while to get through.

To those who have never been to the GC, schedule a trip there. It is awesome. I've got about 330 miles in the canyon so far. Got two trips scheduled this spring (March & May).

Shutterbug
01-30-2014, 12:12
Wonderful. I've been researching/planning for possible GC hikes in the future. Unfortunately, my short term options are for solo hikes in the summer. Not sure if such an itinerary would be good for that kind of hike. I suppose others do it and survive?

If summer is your only option, don't let the heat scare you. You can not only survive, but have a great time. One of my favorite Grand Canyon hikes was in late June. It was dreadfully hot, so my wife and I hiked out in the middle of the night. We broke camp at Bright Angel at 2 a.m. and reached Indian Garden by dawn. We were on the South Rim before 10 a.m. As long as you plan to hike before 10 a.m. and after 4 p.m. you can enjoy the Grand Canyon. Avoid the South Kaibab Trail during the summer afternoons because of lightening.

The canteen at Phantom Ranch has swamp coolers for air conditioning. You can hang out at the canteen or sit in the Bright Angel Creek during the hot part of the day.

Tipi Walter
01-30-2014, 12:16
On one of my many visits, I asked the Rangers @ the Backcountry Office how they do their permits. The park service gets a ton of faxed permit requests the day of & even a few days before. They take all the permits and shuffle them up randomly. They pull the first permit & they get their first option. They keep pulling permits & plugging people in until there are no further vacancies.

Personally, I fax my permit request the day before you're supposed to. If you fax on the first 'official' fax day, you'll get consistent busy signals. It may take you a while to get through.

To those who have never been to the GC, schedule a trip there. It is awesome. I've got about 330 miles in the canyon so far. Got two trips scheduled this spring (March & May).

Newbie Question on the Canyon---Why do the honchos require permits to hike and/or backpack? Is it like the Smokies where they have 90,000 backpackers and overnighters coming in a year? Are all canyon overnight backpacking sites Designated like in the Smokies? Do they tell everyone where to camp?

Do cars entering the Canyon NP have to pay an entrance fee??

Shutterbug
01-30-2014, 12:22
Newbie Question on the Canyon---Why do the honchos require permits to hike and/or backpack? Is it like the Smokies where they have 90,000 backpackers and overnighters coming in a year? Are all canyon overnight backpacking sites Designated like in the Smokies? Do they tell everyone where to camp?

Do cars entering the Canyon NP have to pay an entrance fee??

No permit is required for hiking -- only for camping. All of the campsites on the "coorridor trails" are designated camping locations. It you get away from the corridor, the camp sites are not designated. The corridor trails are Bright Angel, South Kaibab and North Kaibab. When you get a permit, the camp is designated, but the individual sites are first come basis.

Yes, every car pays an entry fee, unless you are a senior citizen. We get in free.

Tipi Walter
01-30-2014, 12:24
Thanks for the info. I hear the Canyon regs are "tough" to deal with (for backpackers). As in getting a permit reservation can take a while.

lonehiker
01-30-2014, 12:26
Newbie Question on the Canyon---Why do the honchos require permits to hike and/or backpack? Is it like the Smokies where they have 90,000 backpackers and overnighters coming in a year? Are all canyon overnight backpacking sites Designated like in the Smokies? Do they tell everyone where to camp?

Do cars entering the Canyon NP have to pay an entrance fee??

You don't need a permit to hike. You have to pay fee to enter park. You need reservations to camp at the bottom (Phantam Ranch) and have to camp in designated areas. I don't know the requirements to camp in other areas (i.e. along the Tonto trail etc.). So fundamentally it is like the Smokies except the free access part.

Shutterbug
01-30-2014, 12:38
Great report! I hiked from the south to north rim last year in early June and hoping to get back to some of the lesser used trails sometime over the next few years. April sounds like much better weather compared to early June.

April is a great time to hike in the Grand Canyon except that the North Rim may not be open. The services on the North Rim don't open until May 15. Some years, the road to the North Rim doesn't open until May. Most years, you will need crampons to hike north of Supia Tunnel in April.

I did a rim to rim to rim last October. The services at the North Rim had already closed and there was some ice on the trail. It will still be there in April. There was a section of the North Kaibab that had washed out about a mile south of Supia Tunnel. We were able to get around the wash out, but it could be dangerous if icy. I doubt that it will be repaired before April.

Both rims of the Grand Canyon have snow during April. Three years ago, I hiked out in snow storm. We got about 4" of snow between Indian Garden and the South Rim.

Shutterbug
01-30-2014, 12:56
,,,. I hear the Canyon regs are "tough" to deal with (for backpackers). As in getting a permit reservation can take a while.

Not really. The regulations are not difficult. The regulations are necessary because so many people want to hike the Grand Canyon. It is almost like crowd control at a sports event.

Getting a permit for a specific time is difficult, but if you are flexible, you can usually get one. I have done more than 30 Grand Canyon hikes and I have been turned down for a permit only once. I always give a range of dates and indicate that I am flexible about camp sites. I don't always get my first choice, but usually I get close to what I requested. I send in my application on the 1st of the month, four months in advance.

One reason people consider the Grand Canyon to be highly regulated is because there are a lot of rangers. On most hikes, you will see one or more rangers on the trail. They all wear the same uniform, but they have different functions. There is one group referred to as "SAR" rangers. I think SAR stands for "Search and Rescue." They hike the trails watching for hikers who are in trouble. Another group are the law enforcement officers. The will be checking your permit at the camp sit. The third group give lectures at Phantom Ranch, Indian Garden and the South Rim. You will often see them hiking to and from those sites.

Tipi Walter
01-30-2014, 13:12
Do you ever feel overly policed or claustrophic?

colorado_rob
01-30-2014, 13:17
... Most years, you will need crampons to hike north of Supia Tunnel in April.

I did a rim to rim to rim last October. The services at the North Rim had already closed and there was some ice on the trail. It will still be there in April. There was a section of the North Kaibab that had washed out about a mile south of Supia Tunnel. We were able to get around the wash out, but it could be dangerous if icy. I doubt that it will be repaired before April.

Both rims of the Grand Canyon have snow during April. Three years ago, I hiked out in snow storm. We got about 4" of snow between Indian Garden and the South Rim. We have done a rim-rim-rim in April, from early-mid april for the last 12 years in a row, and only one single year was there enough snow from Supai to the north rim to be a bother, and even then we made that last mile just fine without any traction devices.

And never in those 12 years was there ever any snow at all on the south rim in early-mid april, sorry. One or two years out of twelve there were a few patches of very old leftover snow just down from the rim on the BA trail, easily walked around.

With due respect, I think you have over stated "snow" on the grand canyon rims in April; yes, there is almost always snow on the North rim then, but the trail just below the rim is either mostly clear or easily walked over because it's trenched out and solid, and the snow only extends a bit down the trail anyway (except that one year). I'm not saying it cannot snow on the rims then, it's just very rare to have significant snow to deal with in April.

The reason we like April better than October is because of the extra ~2 hours of daylight in mid April vs. mid October. I hate to miss any views in the grand canyon!

Thanks for that info on the washout though, we will call ahead to find out conditions before this years RRR, scheduled for April 5th. Still, no way would there be any ice that low, 1 mile before the Supai tunnel even in early April.

Shutterbug
01-30-2014, 13:26
Do you ever feel overly policed or claustrophic? No. If you want to escape the crowds, get off the corridor trails. The Clear Creek Trail will take you to another camp site. You won't see any rangers and probably won't see other hikers. The last time I hiked to Clear Creek I didn't see anyone else for two days.

In the Grand Canyon, the Rangers are friendly. They give helpful advice and are always ready to answer questions. They all have interesting stories.

Odd Man Out
01-30-2014, 16:17
My understanding is that the threshold areas outside the corridor also require that you camp at designated sites (no at large camping). This would include the areas from Indian Gardens to Hermit Creek as well as Horseshoe Mesa. The campground next to Phantom Ranch is called Bright Angel (permit needed), but you do not need a backcountry permit to stay at Phantom Ranch assuming you hike in and out without overnight camping (but you do need a reservation). It also seems that you can hike at night without a permit. You only need a permit if you "camp" so I guess if you keep moving, you don't need a permit. Also, before May 15, the North Rim is considered a backcountry area and a permit is needed.

http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/campsite-information.htm

Odd Man Out
01-30-2014, 16:29
If summer is your only option, don't let the heat scare you. You can not only survive, but have a great time. One of my favorite Grand Canyon hikes was in late June. It was dreadfully hot, so my wife and I hiked out in the middle of the night. We broke camp at Bright Angel at 2 a.m. and reached Indian Garden by dawn. We were on the South Rim before 10 a.m. As long as you plan to hike before 10 a.m. and after 4 p.m. you can enjoy the Grand Canyon. Avoid the South Kaibab Trail during the summer afternoons because of lightening.

The canteen at Phantom Ranch has swamp coolers for air conditioning. You can hang out at the canteen or sit in the Bright Angel Creek during the hot part of the day.

This is good to know. I've been to the NR (2009) and the SR (1970) with the family, but really want to backpack below the rim. I have been reading everything I can. From what the NP puts on their web site, you would think that anyone who goes in the summer is CERTAIN TO DIE!!!! The hike from Hermit to Indian Gardens sounds amazing, as does a rim to rim. The Hermit-BA loop avoids spending a day and 80$ for a shuttle to the NR. Somehow a loop hike is attractive since there isn't the backtracking you do on an out-and-back hike. I probably over think it. Anyplace in the GC is likely to be awesome. I just don't want to get in over my head and be that person who you read about on the news and is then us ridiculed on WB. That would suck.

Shutterbug
01-30-2014, 19:23
This is good to know. I've been to the NR (2009) and the SR (1970) with the family, but really want to backpack below the rim. I have been reading everything I can. From what the NP puts on their web site, you would think that anyone who goes in the summer is CERTAIN TO DIE!!!! The hike from Hermit to Indian Gardens sounds amazing, as does a rim to rim. The Hermit-BA loop avoids spending a day and 80$ for a shuttle to the NR. Somehow a loop hike is attractive since there isn't the backtracking you do on an out-and-back hike. I probably over think it. Anyplace in the GC is likely to be awesome. I just don't want to get in over my head and be that person who you read about on the news and is then us ridiculed on WB. That would suck.

The most popular loop hike is down the South Kaibab to the Bright Angel Campground then back up the Bright Angel Trail. The good thing about that hike is the duffle service. You can send 30 lbs of gear down and back up on a mule. That way you can hike with only what you need for the hike. The light backpack is a good thing on the hike out.

Shutterbug
01-30-2014, 19:37
With due respect, I think you have over stated "snow" on the grand canyon rims in April...
...


Thanks for that info on the washout though, we will call ahead to find out conditions before this years RRR, scheduled for April 5th. Still, no way would there be any ice that low, 1 mile before the Supai tunnel even in early April.

Sometimes pictures are better than words. The snow pictures are from four years ago. The third picture is of the wash out on the North Kaibab Trail As you can see from the picture NPS has attached a rope that one can hold on while navigating the wash out.

CarlZ993
01-30-2014, 21:37
Newbie Question on the Canyon---Why do the honchos require permits to hike and/or backpack? Is it like the Smokies where they have 90,000 backpackers and overnighters coming in a year? Are all canyon overnight backpacking sites Designated like in the Smokies? Do they tell everyone where to camp?

Do cars entering the Canyon NP have to pay an entrance fee??

There is an entry fee into the park. You don't need a permit to day hike (including night-time hikes; aka - Rim to Rim or Rim to Rim to Rim hikes). The bulk of the backcountry permits are available in advance. I believe 60% (somebody correct me if I'm wrong). The rest is on a first-come basis.

When you fill out the request form, you list your 1st, 2nd, & 3rd choices for your itinerary. You also indicate on the form if you have some flexibility on your dates and camps (increases your odds). Most of the sites are designated. In some of the more remote areas, there is at large camping. To cut down on the slow process of decomposing human waste, many sites have composting toilets. Where not provided, their regs require to to pack out used TP.

The cost is quite reasonable: $10 for the permit plus $5 per person per night camping below the rim. You fax in your request four months prior to the month you plan on hiking. For example, a May 11, 2014 hike requires that you fax your permit request on January 1, 2014 (you can actually fax it the day before; their fax machines are working OT on the 1st of each month).

Vthiker77
02-08-2014, 17:23
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/09/sa4eve4a.jpg I did a whirlwind trip out west last summer and only had two days at the canyon. I made of it what I could by going down the bright angel trail, camping in bright angel CG, then back up the next morning. I'm from out east and it was absolutely awe inspiring.... I have to get back there sometime soon and spend some more time there.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/09/ju9a7uha.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/09/ugahepaz.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/09/quhemany.jpg

Dogwood
02-08-2014, 20:24
Excellent commentary Shutterbug!

The snow on the North Rim can linger in patches well into April. Sometimes the road to the N Rim(Hwy 89 A) still needs to be plowed in Late April/early May and isn't typically officially opened until mid May(May 15) for snow/ice reasons. It depends on the yr. Elevation and sun exposure on a R2R2R play all important rolls on snow/ice trail conditions. The weather on either rim at starting THs can be decidedly different than at the Colorado River. I've started on the S Rim in 2 ft or more of snow w/ temps in the teens at Hermit, S. Kaibab, Grandview, and Tanner, etc THs and by the time I got 2000 ft below the rim it was 60* with no indication of snow anywhere on the trail. It's really neat looking up at the rims shrouded in snow from the Tonto Plateau or CR levels.

I've been told by the friendly GC NP Rangers(of the 100's of NP Rangers I've met in many different NPs all but 2 or 3 I've had issues with and even then they were just "eagerly" doing their jobs) that on avg only about 2-4 % of all GCNP annual visitors get below the rim for an overnight. Of those, the vast majority about 75% relegate their below the rim hikes to the corridor trails. The masses are where the crowds will be, the often more competitive to attain campsite reservations will occur, and will attract the majority of the GC NP Ranger backcountry(below the rim trails) presence. Ditto what SB said about getting off or limiting your travel on the corridor trails if you desire more solitude. His Clear Cr Tr is a perfect example. BTW, this is no secret(getting off the most used trails). This is why even the Hermit to BA Tr(back up to the S Rim) or S. Kaibab(back up to the S Rim) hikes, LIKE THE ONE THAT Venture Fit did, are becoming crowded as well!

GC NP, who don't always advertise it, and IMHO they shouldn't because it's not for everyone - remote, no water, route finding skills necessary, higher probability of getting lost or injured and not being easily found, etc - have open camping areas where you don't have to say exactly where you will camp but just in a generally boundary. I think no matter where and when I've hiked GC NP I've never felt claustrophobic though - quite the contrary. It's called the GRAND Canyon for a damn good reason.

A R2R is NOT for the avg hiker. This is for the strongest of hikers. People don't like being told this though. They often over estimate their abilities and underestimate this scenario! So, attempting to do a R2R or finagling a continuous R2R2R without a permit is a long shot and only applicable for such a small % of GC NP visitors.

I too initially thought the warnings of: not attempting to go down to the CR from either rim and back up in one day, carrying enough water, considering what goes down must go back up, swimming in the CR is dangerous, hiking down and back up is a strenuous affair, etc were overhyped but after witnessing the number of people attempting to do these things AGAINST GC NP advice, AND getting into serious distress(heat exhaustion dehydration, extreme fatigue, heart attacks(I've seen three!, one person dying), three deaths(one drowning, one falling), etc) in all fairness to GC NP, they are giving the appropriate warnings.

Odd Man Out
02-09-2014, 11:25
I too initially thought the warnings of: not attempting to go down to the CR from either rim and back up in one day, carrying enough water, considering what goes down must go back up, swimming in the CR is dangerous, hiking down and back up is a strenuous affair, etc were overhyped but after witnessing the number of people attempting to do these things AGAINST GC NP advice, AND getting into serious distress(heat exhaustion dehydration, extreme fatigue, heart attacks(I've seen three!, one person dying), three deaths(one drowning, one falling), etc) in all fairness to GC NP, they are giving the appropriate warnings.

I saw a couple of young men from Germany who were very irritated when the ranger at the visitor's center told them that no, they could not leave at 10 AM, hike from the North Rim to the river, go swimming, and be back for supper.