View Full Version : CDT 2014 recommendations
If you were attempting a nobo thru of the CDT this year, what combination of guides, maps, and or GPS would you be using?
bamboo bob
02-02-2014, 13:19
Just my personal opinion. I did NM last year and will do Colorado this summer. The Bearcreek maps were my favorite maps. Ley's maps have the alternate routes on them but I understand the BC maps may now have the alternates as well. It's hard to switch away from Ley because he's put so much work into them. But one set would be nice. If you can print out Beacon's data book it's really useful set up like other trails data with all the water etc. I have a Etrex 20 GPS. Bearcreek and others have all the info to load it up. Yogi's trail town guides give that sort of info for where to send boxes etc. I keep saying that I found NM way easier than I expected. I think it's from the trail being inproved over the years. Your better off gettin advice from people who have hiked recently than from years ago. Don't be scared off.
Assuming I had no or little CDT thru-hiking experience, wanting to possibly explore some "unofficial" routes for myself, I would roll largely with Yogi's guides/maps recs with Ley's mapsets(on map notes). I would consider Wolf's Guidebooks if wanting to take more alternates or desiring more in detail trail descriptions(left turn here, take the ridge here, water better this way, more scenic this way, etc kinda stuff). The CDT has LOTS of alternates! The Bear Creeks maps I've seen are nicely done and could be an additional map/GPS way pts consideration for GPS users. Here's what's going to happen here with your question Apd07c, it's my opinion no two separate CDT thru-hikers do the exact same route or hike with the exact same CDT thru-hiking philosophy so if you're seeking a clear cut consensus on what's right for your CDT hike you're NOT going to get it from others. You'll have to make those decisions yourself! This is the wonderful thing about the CDT - you are still allowed to do you're own route without so much "official trail" backlash and judgments BUT it requires more route and possibly logistical considerations. At least it was for me.
Simplest option: just take the Ley maps. These are annotated with lots of comments on the route, water sources, alternates, etc. You could easily do your hike with just the Ley maps and no other information, and many hikers do just this. Think about printing maps for CO and MT on 11"x17" paper--it's hard to see landmarks in complicated terrain if you print 8x11.
More complicated option (what we did): BearCreek maps for the official route + Ley maps for the alternates we wanted to do (Gila, Ghost Ranch, etc.). Because the BC maps don't have any extra information, especially about water, we went through the Ley Maps and made notes on the Bear Creek Maps for water sources, bad weather alternates, etc. This was kind of time-consuming but also fun for someone like me who loves maps.
There are BC maps this year for the alternates, which is great, but you will still want to consult the Ley maps to get info on water sources. The BC maps simply list a "W" next to water sources. In NM and dry parts of WY/MT, many of those W's either had no water or were super gross.
One more thing: we got the DeLorme maps for all 4 states, highlighted the CDT route, and carried the relevant pages with us. These paid off several times when we decided to make up our own alternate routes and when we had to bail off the trial to go to town (injury/weather). My impression was that most hikers didn't have the Delorme maps, but I would bring them if I hiked again.
It is nice to have the "larger view" 1:100,000 or so maps for areas where CDT NOBOers typically bail around typically higher elev and/or higher snowfall areas. Yogi makes a brief pt about which specific "larger view" maps, in addition to something like Ley's CDT mapset, would/could likely? be needed for a NOBO CDTer. For example, I would have "larger view" maps for the San Juan CO areas as a NOBOer starting in early April at any of the CDT southern termini.
Ley's been doing his CDT mapset for awhile now and annually updates it plus he's a CDT thru-hiker plus I often considered and relied on his on map notes which IMO are extremely helpful.
One more thing: we got the DeLorme maps for all 4 states, highlighted the CDT route, and carried the relevant pages with us. These paid off several times when we decided to make up our own alternate routes and when we had to bail off the trial to go to town (injury/weather). My impression was that most hikers didn't have the Delorme maps, but I would bring them if I hiked again.
I've been wondering about something for awhile now. Why do people promote the Delorme State Atlas maps and ignore the Benchmark Maps' State Road & Recreation Atlases for the CDT? Benchmark maps have one for all the western states. Over the years I've bought both brands, but I think the Benchmark maps do a slightly better job covering things once you leave the paved roads. Though that is just an impression made from comparing maps between completely different states (say Benchmark's California map verse Delorme's Oregon) since I've never bought both for a given state. Is it just a matter of familiarity with the maps or brand name recognition, or due to Delorme also covering the eastern states which Benchmark doesn't? Or is it because for the 5 CDT states, the Delorme maps are better?
I think the Delorme maps are more detailed for escape routes than the individual entire state Benchmark foldable maps(scales are different). I'd have to see the Benchmark Maps State Rd & Recreation Atlases pages though in a side by side comparison. I can tell ya for my Colorado Delorme book most of the maps are at a 1" = 2.5 miles scale w/ a few maps(in larger city/heavily street areas areas) at a 1" = 5 mile scale(makes sense that you don't need as much detail on city streets).
Foldable? I'm talking about the Atlas books. As an example for NM: Benchmark NM (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0929591895/ref=s9_psimh_gw_p14_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1SAD8M8N9J17N3HTSD1Q&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200382&pf_rd_i=507846) vs Delorme NM (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0899333176/ref=s9_psimh_gw_p14_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1SAD8M8N9J17N3HTSD1Q&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200382&pf_rd_i=507846) Or are people talking about a completely different Delorme map? I had assume that these were the map series being discussed as they are what I'm familiar with for driving dirt roads in National forests and on BLM land?
bamboo bob
02-02-2014, 18:22
In my Delorme mapbooks the CDT did not match up with Bear Creek or Ley very well but I carried them for bail out. At least they are readable, you need some magnification to read road designation on BC and Ley. Not just my old guy eyes.
Sorry for the confusion Miner. Should have said I'd have to see the Benchmark Maps State Rd & Recreation Atlases pages though in a side by side comparison WITH THE pages from the Delorme state books. Benchmark also makes individual foldable state maps too at a much broader scale than the Delorme maps. What is the scale of the maps in your Benchmark Maps State Rd & Recreation Atlases book? You prolly can use the benchmark book maps you have. To get to your question, I guess you're right in that it is the Delorme maps most are familiar with. I will say Yogi's CDT guide easily associates the various maps one might need as they pertain to Ley's mapset and the various other CDT maps. She makes it a lot easier to check on the maps one might need/want. Her CDT map section is well done and makes getting the maps MUCH less cumbersome considering how confusing it could be.
Her CDT map section is well done and makes (cross referencing) the (various)maps one may need/want MUCH less cumbersome considering how confusing it could be.
I just went to their respective websites and read the map scales:
NewMexico: the Benchmap Atlas for their Landscape Maps 1:285,000 1" =4.5 miles
while for Delorme: 1:300,000 (1"=4.7 miles)
Colorado: For Benchmark, Landscape Maps 1:200,000 1" =3.2 miles. Metro Maps 1:125,000 1" =2 miles
while for Delorme :160,000 (1"=2.5 miles) for pp. 12-93 (Fort Collins-Denver-Pueblo and west); 1:320,000 (1"=5 miles) for pp. 94-103
Wyoming: For Benchmark, Landscape Maps 1:250,000 1" =4 miles.
for Delorme, 1:225,000 (1"=3.55 miles)
Idaho: For Benchmark, Landscape Maps 1:250,000 1" =4 miles. They are coming out with a newly updated map in early 2014; don't know if it will affect the scale.
for Delorme, 1:250,000 (1"=4 miles)
Montana: For Benchmark, Landscape Maps 1:250,000 1" = 4 miles.
for Delorme: 1:250,000 (1"=4 miles)
As for which map is shows more detail, it seems to be a state by state case. Of course that doesn't tell the whole story since different maps can show different features and leave others out.
Just going by scale, it looks like I'll keep my existing NM, Idaho, and Montana maps by Benchmark and my existing Delorme Colarado maps. I may want to look at getting the Delorme Wyoming map book instead.
The biggest concern to me for a NOBO CDTer would be having those southern CO big picture bail out maps at the ready should the need arise and perhaps if you're doing something funky alternate NM routes and need to bail in an emergency. Those CO scales for each tell me you should be able to roll with what you have. :)
I have both the Delorme and the Benchmark maps. (Depending on the state). Both are good. The Benchmark is a little easier to read in terms of the colors and features sticking out. But sometimes there is too much info. Mind you, I use them more to get to USFS and BLM roads and trailheads than "on foot" navigation.
As for the guides to get for the CDT..my humble opinion:
The ‘official’ guides are way out of date and haven’t been updated in 10 years or more. They are also from an org that no longer exists.
In brief,
the Wolf guides have supplements regularly to update the existing guidebooks. The Wolf Guides describes the CDTS route (with few alternates).
the Bear Creek maps show the designated USFS route in excellent detail. An additional map book is needed for alt routes.
The J Ley maps show alt routes and the official route (if not as good detail as the above maps and guidebooks), Many annotations from previous hikers on the maps.
The there is Yogi’s guide aimed more at town and logistic info
Al H’ s new databook should prove to be useful, too
Most people take a mix of all five. The Grand Unification of CDT guides is still being sought. http://www.pmags.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif
It sounds like to me that whats needed is the Ley's notes incorporated into a databook for those who want to use the Bear Creek Maps. Is the only good overview trail maps for each state the ones included with Ley's maps? Its easier to plan logistics when not zoomed in so much.
"The biggest concern to me for a NOBO CDTer would be having those southern CO big picture bail out maps at the ready should the need arise and perhaps if you're doing something funky alternate NM routes and need to bail in an emergency."
I think this is a good observation. For a SOBO too, you're more likely to want big picture stuff in Montana, i.e., where there's a lot of snow to deal with. Though coming out of CO you can get snow too, depending on pace and year. And in NM it's handy because of the variation in route options.
In 2011 the BC maps were only available for the southern half of the trail, and I did carry them there. A bit schizo working with both those and Ley, but Ley puts useful info on his maps plus the alternates. In NM you want every clue you can get as to water sources. If I was staying on what Bear Creek considers the "official" CDT then I liked working with their maps better. Had I printed Ley on larger than 8-1/2 x 11 paper, however, I might not have felt that way (?). I found Wolf to be sort of great and sort of frustrating, but when things are confusing, more options to look at the better, and things are confusing a lot more often on the CDT than elsewhere.
It certainly does all add up. I can recall initially planning on 6 resupply boxes, I think, and then ultimately going with 8 driven in large part by just weighing how much paper I would be carrying on my back leaving a trail town (especially true once I started carrying the BC maps). Seriously!
re: Bail out points
Besides for snow, I'd like to have bail out points for the inevitable wildfires that will, more than likely, force a trail closure at some point on the CDT this year. :( Early..but I am perhaps being cautious.
bearcreek
02-05-2014, 17:18
It sounds like to me that whats needed is the Ley's notes incorporated into a databook for those who want to use the Bear Creek Maps. Is the only good overview trail maps for each state the ones included with Ley's maps? Its easier to plan logistics when not zoomed in so much.
It is here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0k3kuajiekizzin/zX6AtfJ3dT/Beacon%27s%20CDT%20Databook.doc
I haven't seen BearCreek's CDT alternates Book/Maps. Can anyone compare that with Ley's alternate routes which already come w/ his CDT mapset?
Alleghanian Orogeny
02-14-2014, 15:23
My Western US set of DeLormes has been gradually replaced with Benchmarks, and the more recently purchased states are Benchmarks only. I find "big picture" navigation and visualization of routes to be much better with the Benchmarks, even though their Landscape maps are shaded relief and not topos. There are spot elevations plotted at many passes, peaks, and intersections, so between the spot elevations and the shaded relief you can get a good feel for the terrain. What I dislike about the DeLormes is that even though they're 100% topographic, some state's contour lines are very faint and hard to follow, and that translates to having a bit of difficulty getting a feel for the general terrain. Also, in some states, the contour interval is too great to give a good look at lower-relief features. That's not as prevalent in the West as it is back here in the East, where the 100 to 150' contour interval on DeLorme's Mid-Atlantic states is essentially useless out of the Blue Ridge Mountains.
AO
SunnyWalker
02-14-2014, 17:43
I used Bearcreek maps last year on CDT and will this year. They do have notation on water sources. I use BC maps and the waypoints for those maps in my GPS (last year and this year). I use a Garmin Oregon 450 unit. In addition to BC maps this year(2014) I will have Ley maps available for alternates, though I am using BC alternate maps and waypoints.
Hey Orengeny: How about a link to the Benchmark maps? Thanks.
My Western US set of DeLormes has been gradually replaced with Benchmarks, and the more recently purchased states are Benchmarks only. I find "big picture" navigation and visualization of routes to be much better with the Benchmarks, even though their Landscape maps are shaded relief and not topos. There are spot elevations plotted at many passes, peaks, and intersections, so between the spot elevations and the shaded relief you can get a good feel for the terrain. What I dislike about the DeLormes is that even though they're 100% topographic, some state's contour lines are very faint and hard to follow, and that translates to having a bit of difficulty getting a feel for the general terrain. Also, in some states, the contour interval is too great to give a good look at lower-relief features. That's not as prevalent in the West as it is back here in the East, where the 100 to 150' contour interval on DeLorme's Mid-Atlantic states is essentially useless out of the Blue Ridge Mountains.
AO
I'd like to respond to that. Whether using the individual pages of the state Benchmark or Delorme maps I've never used them to cut my own path on a hike. I feel they mostly don't work well enough for that. I use them almost entirely to gain a bigger picture of bail out options which to me on the CDT meant finding roads and major features. They simply aren't sufficiently small enough scale which results in a lack of necessary topographical details to be using regularly for finding hiking trails or blazing a new route. I felt I needed 7.5-minute maps printed at 1:24,000 with 40-foot contours to find my way especially when not on a trail and having to pick my way through the CDT terrain. I'm relating this as it pertains to CDT navigation not necessarily everywhere(anywhere) else. IMHO, if a CDTer was to attempt to rely solely or largely on the state pages of the Delormes or Benchmark they're are going to be doing much unnecessary wandering! What's typically suggested for the CDT, is using SOME Delorme state pages, or if you prefer Benchmark individual state pages, in higher risk areas where CDTers typically find they have to bail or wander off their main routes or off their "smaller" more detailed 7.5 min topos.
Alleghanian Orogeny
02-17-2014, 12:39
I'd like to respond to that. Whether using the individual pages of the state Benchmark or Delorme maps I've never used them to cut my own path on a hike. I feel they mostly don't work well enough for that. I use them almost entirely to gain a bigger picture of bail out options which to me on the CDT meant finding roads and major features. They simply aren't sufficiently small enough scale which results in a lack of necessary topographical details to be using regularly for finding hiking trails or blazing a new route. I felt I needed 7.5-minute maps printed at 1:24,000 with 40-foot contours to find my way especially when not on a trail and having to pick my way through the CDT terrain. I'm relating this as it pertains to CDT navigation not necessarily everywhere(anywhere) else. IMHO, if a CDTer was to attempt to rely solely or largely on the state pages of the Delormes or Benchmark they're are going to be doing much unnecessary wandering! What's typically suggested for the CDT, is using SOME Delorme state pages, or if you prefer Benchmark individual state pages, in higher risk areas where CDTers typically find they have to bail or wander off their main routes or off their "smaller" more detailed 7.5 min topos.
I couldn't agree more. I would most certainly not rely primarily upon Benchmark or DeLorme as my primary navigation tool on the CDT or most anywhere in the Rockies. I agree that the scale is not detailed enough for that. For hiking/backpacking, I'd want something in the 1:60,000 range, at least, or better yet, the noted USGS 7.5' quadrangle @ 1:24,000, with 40' contours. The discussion of Benchmark and DeLorme was for "big picture" use, such as bailout and resupply point planning, not for mile-by-mile planning. They're on the net at www.benchmarkmaps.com.
AO