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Tipi Walter
02-02-2014, 13:53
Okay boys and girls, let's survey what gear has failed you in the field or out on the trail or inside some wilderness area. When something falls outside our circle of trust, well, we are reluctant to ever take it out again. I'll start.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2013-1/19-Days-of-Solitude/i-XgfnnwC/0/M/TRIP%20151%20040-M.jpg
Exped Downmat---baffle tube blown on Day 1 or a 19 day trip. (Must admit the company sent me a brand new pad after I sent them this email photo). Question is, will I take the new one out on my February trip? Dang warm and comfy.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2013-1/Backpacking-Bryan-DeLay/i-bRDhMXQ/0/M/TRIP%20148%20098-M.jpg
Crappy Corona hand pruners for trail work. Not strickly "gear" but close enough.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Gear-TheSevenHolyNylons/Bags-Pads-And-Other-Junk/i-XSvnNLq/0/M/LIMMER%20BOOTS%20005-M.jpg
Alas, the highly vaunted Limmer boots, lightweight model. This is the least of the problem---think soles coming off.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/10-Days-In-The-Cold/i-CGcDKGr/0/M/TRIP%20117%20107-M.jpg
A large series of Sangean radios. How many have I been through? Many. They seem to last about 8 months and then, well, cannot be field-repaired.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2012/20-Days-to-Panther-Branch-and/i-GxGDBBP/0/M/TRIP%20136%20406-M.jpg
Trying to do a "field-repair" on a Sangean radio atop my tent stuff sack. Verdict? FAILURE. But hey, there's a new Sangean in my kit. I'm an idiot.

Tipi Walter
02-02-2014, 13:57
YET MORE

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2012/Tipi-Walter-Grayson-Highlands/i-tfwrMdS/0/M/TRI%20132%20071-M.jpg
The slow delamination of the Asolo boot sole. Crappy Asolo 520's.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2013-1/18-Days-in-the-Cohutta/i-XkRSdqb/0/M/TRIP%20142%20617-M.jpg
What happened by the next trip? The wondrous Asolo boots. Outside my circle of trust, maybe forever.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/16-Days-with-a-Miracle-Dog/i-TmKPR4J/0/M/BEAR%20DAMAGE%20006-M.jpg
INSIDE MY CIRCLE OF TRUST---The BearVault 500 after a bear attack, black bear that is. Gnawing is never nice but he didn't eat. The vault held.

MDSection12
02-02-2014, 14:08
My dog is outside my hiking circle of trust.

mtntopper
02-02-2014, 14:13
All gear will fail under the right conditions. What you left out were those conditions and the age etc. Be fair when you make reports. I have had things to fail on their first use and others that have lived well past any expectations. Some equipment that I have used were used outside there recommended uses. I have had boots to blow with few miles and others t last much longer. Same with electronics, clothing, stoves packs,stuff sac etc

bamboo bob
02-02-2014, 14:16
Last year I sold all my single person backpacking tents and bought a MSR Carbon Reflex. The center pole made of carbon snapped! I sent the tent back got a new one and the same thing happened again. I still have a MSR Hubba2 that I'll likely sell as well. My go to tent is a Lightheart Solong6 It's a single but my wife and I did a few hundred miles in it as well.

mudsocks
02-02-2014, 14:36
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Gear-TheSevenHolyNylons/Bags-Pads-And-Other-Junk/i-XSvnNLq/0/M/LIMMER%20BOOTS%20005-M.jpg
Alas, the highly vaunted Limmer boots, lightweight model. This is the least of the problem---think soles coming off.

All shoes are outside of my circle of trust. There was a time that I simply wore through the soles of shoes. Today shoes seem to fall apart long before they wear out. My last three pair of shoes suddenly delaminated without any signs of imminent failure prior to use. 5 miles into a snow shoe trip, on Katahdin's gateway and roughly 4k into a 10k road race. Luckily para cord and duct tape respectively saved the day in the first two incidents. Now I go barefoot whenever possible.



A large series of Sangean radios. How many have I been through? Many. They seem to last about 8 months and then, well, cannot be field-repaired.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2012/20-Days-to-Panther-Branch-and/i-GxGDBBP/0/M/TRIP%20136%20406-M.jpg
Trying to do a "field-repair" on a Sangean radio atop my tent stuff sack. Verdict? FAILURE. But hey, there's a new Sangean in my kit. I'm an idiot.

Looks like this radio was a "crushing" failure to me or did those heads get bent while taking it apart?

Tipi Walter
02-02-2014, 14:37
All gear will fail under the right conditions. What you left out were those conditions and the age etc. Be fair when you make reports. I have had things to fail on their first use and others that have lived well past any expectations. Some equipment that I have used were used outside there recommended uses. I have had boots to blow with few miles and others t last much longer. Same with electronics, clothing, stoves packs,stuff sac etc

My items were newish---the Exped two years old, the boots about the same. Not expected and fairly common in the review literature. The Limmers were only about a year old and fell apart to I think a manufacturing flaw. Expeds seem to commonly delaminate with bladders, etc. When things do blow out, people need not be squeamish to point out the flaws. And as I said, the radios never last long enough to even have a history.

And as you rightly say, all gear will fail in the right conditions or eventually. Sadly, most reviews never cover the eventual failures---which in my mind is the most important facet of a piece of gear---How It Will Fail. Although Hilleberg tents are not on this list (and still tightly inside my circle of trust), I could write a couple pages of their weaknesses and eventual problems. No piece of gear is perfect.


Last year I sold all my single person backpacking tents and bought a MSR Carbon Reflex. The center pole made of carbon snapped! I sent the tent back got a new one and the same thing happened again. I still have a MSR Hubba2 that I'll likely sell as well. My go to tent is a Lightheart Solong6 It's a single but my wife and I did a few hundred miles in it as well.

You remind me of a Mt Hardwear pole which snapped for no real reason---and field repaired for the duration of the trip since I didn't bring a replair sleeve. I blamed their new fangled Atlas pole system. In fact, this field failure caused me to go to Hilleberg tents.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2005/The-Broken-Tent-Pole-Trip-49/i-T7nWkdF/0/L/49-7-L.jpg

Tipi Walter
02-02-2014, 14:44
All shoes are outside of my circle of trust. There was a time that I simply wore through the soles of shoes. Today shoes seem to fall apart long before they wear out. My last three pair of shoes suddenly delaminated without any signs of imminent failure prior to use. 5 miles into a snow shoe trip, on Katahdin's gateway and roughly 4k into a 10k road race. Luckily para cord and duct tape respectively saved the day in the first two incidents. Now I go barefoot whenever possible.



Looks like this radio was a "crushing" failure to me or did those heads get bent while taking it apart?

Some of us are rougher on boots than others. The final radio pic is a sort of joke on doing any kind of field repair. I wanted to smash it with a big rock. What happens to my Sangeans? They won't turn off, the lock button turns on for no reason and cannot be turned off, the channels start surfing without my participation, going to the weather channel causes the radio to blurt out and scan FM stations. Totally fubared. I tore it apart just for the heck of it as a sort of final autopsy and it made for a good pic.

Malto
02-02-2014, 15:14
That bear canister picture is classic. Did you see the critter do it?

4shot
02-02-2014, 15:42
My go to tent is a Lightheart Solong6 It's a single but my wife and I did a few hundred miles in it as well.

that's a good tip. I've been carrying a shires double rainbow but I think I'll leave it behind a take the solo next time my wife goes with me on a section hike.I can only think of one way two people can fit comfortably in a solo backpacking tent!:sun I always pick up something on this site which helps me on the next trip.

as far as the exped mats, I had one blow up about 2 days south of Franklin on a hike last spring. It was 2 unpleasant nights on the ground until I got to the outfitter. got a neo air which I don't like as much. I wasn't too upset though - I figured I had maybe 3,000 miles (and equivalent nights out of it) and I wasn't real gentle with it - just rolled it up and stuffed inside my pack.

Tipi Walter
02-02-2014, 16:26
That bear canister picture is classic. Did you see the critter do it?

No, never seen, but he rolled two canisters about a hundred feet down a weedy hillside. Had he been smart he would've waited for me in the brush as I looked for the things. Black Bear 1 Human 0.

He also did this---

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/16-Days-with-a-Miracle-Dog/i-dVmCNJS/0/L/BEAR%20DAMAGE%20009-L.jpg

winger
02-02-2014, 16:37
I've had the same exact Sangean radio for over 5 years, only thing I've done is lubricated the volume pot. Great little radio for its weight.

perrymk
02-02-2014, 16:45
I've often thought how neat it would be to start a company making things, any things, as long as they are quality things made in the US. I suppose if I lived in France I would want things made in France, but I live in the US. Make water sprinklers, bicycles, backpack gear. The problem is, I don't think anyone would pay what it would cost to create a successful business.

Tipi Walter
02-02-2014, 16:51
I've had the same exact Sangean radio for over 5 years, only thing I've done is lubricated the volume pot. Great little radio for its weight.

You must of got the special edition model made in Germany. I'm on my 5th Sangean in about 6 years.


I've often thought how neat it would be to start a company making things, any things, as long as they are quality things made in the US. I suppose if I lived in France I would want things made in France, but I live in the US. Make water sprinklers, bicycles, backpack gear. The problem is, I don't think anyone would pay what it would cost to create a successful business.

Some great gear is made in the US---the Mystery Ranch pack I use, for instance. And the Hillebergs sure aren't made in China. There are a bunch of stateside companies. I think TarpTents are made in the US and they are popular.

perrymk
02-02-2014, 17:05
I own some US made gear and I am happy with it, and I didn't mind paying a premium for it. If you could point me in the direction of a quality, lightweight, US made 6 inch or so hiking boot, I'd be appreciative.

Three is a niche market, but I don't think the general market will support it growing very much. I'd like to be wrong.

peakbagger
02-02-2014, 17:07
Nalgene made a run of plastic water bottles sort of like a platypus. First one failed in the middle of the smokies, 2nd and third failed on day hikes. I gave up and switched to a MSR dromedary and 10 years alter its still fine.

Tipi Walter
02-02-2014, 17:17
I own some US made gear and I am happy with it, and I didn't mind paying a premium for it. If you could point me in the direction of a quality, lightweight, US made 6 inch or so hiking boot, I'd be appreciative.


Three is a niche market, but I don't think the general market will support it growing very much. I'd like to be wrong.


Limmers come to mind . . . . but . . . . but . . . .but

Peakbagger---
Platypus is still deep in my circle of trust, and I have a new one waiting in storage just in case.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2013-1/19-Days-of-Solitude/i-L6th8tv/0/M/TRIP%20151%20254-M.jpg

bamboo bob
02-02-2014, 18:02
There's a guy on here making American made hiking poles from Bamboo. I would buy them but they don't telescope so they would be difficult to ship. i may get some anyway for local (no fly) trips.

Drybones
02-02-2014, 18:26
There's a guy on here making American made hiking poles from Bamboo. I would buy them but they don't telescope so they would be difficult to ship. i may get some anyway for local (no fly) trips.

My first hiking poles were bamboo cross countru ski poles bought in a yard sale.

Drybones
02-02-2014, 18:30
The only thing I can think of that's failed me is me. Shoe wear out, that's not failure, but forgetting to bring a sleeping pad on a cold rainy night hike or poking a hole in a Platypus trying to get ice out is personal failure, not equipment.

bamboo bob
02-02-2014, 18:31
My first hiking poles were bamboo cross countru ski poles bought in a yard sale.

As were mine, thus the trail name.

Bati
02-02-2014, 20:43
I learned what not to trust before I made it to Fontana Dam northbound. My North Face Tadpole tent had a major failure the second night I used it. Granted, the weather was extreme, but the design was flawed and they refused to replace the bent pole for free. In fact, the company wouldn't even take a repair/warrently call on the 1-800 number. That ended my trust with them. I had some gear from REI, including a lexan mug that cracked, and gaiters that were shredded near the snaps (but still worked.) Since the items had been used for 2 weeks before failure, I made a note and don't buy the brand unless it's something I won't be depending on (such as a lunchbox).
Other gear has failed but worked fine in field and been repaired by the manufacturer at no cost other than return shipping. Dana Designs (back in the day) was fantastic; I'll be looking for a mystery ranch when my current Dana fails. My Yellowstone developed a cracked framesheet, which mystified them as I never had it out in anything below -20. However, despite the crack, it worked OK while broken, and was repaired for free. When I finally got rid of that pack years later, the cordura was thoroughly trashed, possibly from UV damage. I bought another Dana without a second thought.
Katadyn's pocket filter is another example. I've bent the plunger, frozen it (barely- pump it dry but if it's cold enough some drops of water will manage to freeze on the ends), and abused it with glacier runoff and skanky mud puddles in a road, but it's field maintainable and never let me down (unless you count the obvious time to replace the filter which took years.)
Nalgene is another good example- the old style bottles (not lexan) won't die unless they're very old, you filled them too full on a cold day, or you drop them too far. I've even seen one that contained metal pliers and fell about 70 feet onto rocks (not on a backpacking trip, of course) where the only broken part was the lid.
The biggest problem with breaking the circle of trust is that it's nearly impossible to ever recreate it.

Tipi Walter
02-02-2014, 23:59
Other gear has failed but worked fine in field and been repaired by the manufacturer at no cost other than return shipping. Dana Designs (back in the day) was fantastic; I'll be looking for a mystery ranch when my current Dana fails.


The biggest problem with breaking the circle of trust is that it's nearly impossible to ever recreate it.

The Danas and Mystery Ranch systems are great---I recently sent my G6000 pack in for repairs and they returned it fixed with no charge. And like I said, the Exped boys got a pic of my blown downmat and sent a new one no questions.

BUT, even with great customer service, a piece of gear can fall out of my circle of trust and it may be, as you say, impossible to ever recreate it. Sometimes I have to carry backups just in case a thing fails and I'm in the middle of nowhere. Like a spare hipbelt buckle or an MSR stove pump or extra tent shock cord or even a spare tent pole section.

chiefiepoo
02-03-2014, 09:02
Outside of the circle; pair of Meidl boots from Cabellas. Not only a complete failure of a sole that disintegrated and delaminated in the back country of Glacier NP in year 3 but a failure of Cabellas with an offer of $50 proration on a pair of $215 boots.

Inside the circle; My Big Agness Seedhouse 2 tent. Survived 50 mph gusts on the Scottish moors in open space with minimum wear and tear.

Terry7
02-03-2014, 09:28
I have bought 3 six moon design tents over the last 7 years. The last 2 failed, I will never buy a product from them again. Henry Shire from now on.

fiddlehead
02-03-2014, 09:28
TNF (The North Face) gore-tex $350 rain jacket: Soaked through in little time, as did my friends when we were hiking in CO.
I switched to Frogg Toggs and never looked back. That jacket is now reserved for when I have to go to the mall (about all it's good for IMO)

Dromedary bag: leaked at 10degrees in the Himalayas. What good is a water carrier if it's going to leak all over your clothes when you really need them dry?

My zipper broke on my Black Diamond Mega-mid tent (after 2 thru hikes, so, not complaining at all.

My Go-lite Breeze delaminated so, I bitched and they replaced it. The new one they sent me has been on two thru's and countless other hikes. Holding up well.

Gear that has done more then 3 thru's without fail: My MSR pocket rocket, my Integral Designs Sil-shelter (my brother uses it every year for self supported kayak trips too), My EverNew 1.3 litre cook kit. (replaced the pot once but the handle has now done 6 thru-hikes), My Thai style aluminium spoon (2nd one as I tried to get cold peanut butter out of a jar once too often with the 1st one) My Ginzu paring knife. (indestructible)

-Animal
02-03-2014, 09:44
Great subject!
Outside my circle of trust- Crocks. The simple ones…they are ok for camp but terrible for hiking. Their failure led me to a real gem.
Inside my circle of trust- O'rageous watersport 2 $18.99 from Academy. My first pair has over 1000 trail miles and still going. Super lightweight and fast drying…great for camp and trail. It has a thick, somewhat spongy, hard to destroy sole to it. The bottom has a surface that grips when wet. –best shoes I have found. In the fall they go on sale for $9.
http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_690326_-1__?N=290330468&count=2&affcode=42&kwid=ps_cse&cid=PLA_0023413636&gclid=CKLlpvWKsLwCFZNj7AodhgoAbA (http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_690326_-1__?N=290330468&count=2&affcode=42&kwid=ps_cse&cid=PLA_0023413636&gclid=CKLlpvWKsLwCFZNj7AodhgoAbA)

Tipi Walter
02-03-2014, 10:29
Inside the circle; My Big Agness Seedhouse 2 tent. Survived 50 mph gusts on the Scottish moors in open space with minimum wear and tear.

This is what I like to hear and this is what it's all about---combat tested and future-trusted.




I have bought 3 six moon design tents over the last 7 years. The last 2 failed, I will never buy a product from them again. Henry Shire from now on.

It's sort of amazing how many backpackers here on Whiteblaze praise the Six Moon Design tents---Oops, Terry7 comes along to instill a bit of sobriety.




Dromedary bag: leaked at 10degrees in the Himalayas. What good is a water carrier if it's going to leak all over your clothes when you really need them dry?

Gear that has done more then 3 thru's without fail: My MSR pocket rocket, my Integral Designs Sil-shelter (my brother uses it every year for self supported kayak trips too), My EverNew 1.3 litre cook kit. (replaced the pot once but the handle has now done 6 thru-hikes), My Thai style aluminium spoon (2nd one as I tried to get cold peanut butter out of a jar once too often with the 1st one) My Ginzu paring knife. (indestructible)

What good is a leaking water carrier? I wonder if the designers even try out their stuff, for an hour. The EverNew non-stick fry pot is an elusive creature to find, buy and use. I'm stuck with the MSR Flex pot and drat it but I'm on my 3rd $30.00 pot in one year (!!!!). Yes, the teflon coating quickly delaminates and it's a real bummer unless you enjoy having a steady supply of polytetrafluoroethylene in your diet. I've written screeds on the subject in my trip reports but hopefully my third pot will be okay if I use lamb fur gloves and never stir and keep it in the box it came in and never use it.

Here is the Flex pot in action---Wonderful concept, crappy engineering---

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2013-1/Green-Cove-Cabin/i-CQH5M3L/0/M/TRIP%20147%20097-M.jpg


Great subject!
Outside my circle of trust- Crocks. The simple ones…they are ok for camp but terrible for hiking. Their failure led me to a real gem.
Inside my circle of trust- O'rageous watersport 2 $18.99 from Academy. My first pair has over 1000 trail miles and still going. Super lightweight and fast drying…great for camp and trail. It has a thick, somewhat spongy, hard to destroy sole to it. The bottom has a surface that grips when wet. –best shoes I have found. In the fall they go on sale for $9.
http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_690326_-1__?N=290330468&count=2&affcode=42&kwid=ps_cse&cid=PLA_0023413636&gclid=CKLlpvWKsLwCFZNj7AodhgoAbA (http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_690326_-1__?N=290330468&count=2&affcode=42&kwid=ps_cse&cid=PLA_0023413636&gclid=CKLlpvWKsLwCFZNj7AodhgoAbA)

It's weird how one piece of gear is inside the circle for one person and outside for another. I love my crocs, if it's possible to love a couple globs of soft rubber-like stuff, and a pair goes out with me on every trip for the all-important creek crossings and camp shoes. For camp the things are quick and easy to put on and remove. But thanks for the link as I'll check out your recommendation.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2009/The-Hilleberg-Keron-Tent-Trip/i-DBFNCgM/0/L/TRIP%20104%20068-L.jpg
After a winter creek crossing---the beloved crocs. (Sometimes the crappy snaps come off or get lost and the back strap flaps in the wind. Bummer. Carry extra snaps, or what they call "rivets".

The Solemates
02-03-2014, 10:57
I abuse my equipment, and have not had too many problems that I blame the manufacturer. Only one stands out:

I'll never buy a pair of Garmont boots again. They suck, and they have terrible customer service.

Rain Man
02-03-2014, 11:09
I haven't had too many important failures over the years, but here are a couple.

I tried for a long time to find a small "jet flame" style lighter, so I would not have to turn a regular lighter upside down and burn my fingers while trying to light alcohol stoves. Thought I finally found the answer at a Cabela's in Pennsylvania. This little thing (photo below) worked great ... for a very brief while. At the rate I used it, it should have lasted years. Lasted a few weeks and most of that was setting on a shelf at home. FAIL.

A bigger failure was an REI pack, but of course they swapped it with no hassle, so rather than leaving my circle of trust, REI continued to remain in the absolute center of it. Still, here's the situation.

I began a section hike (all of Maryland) a couple years ago. Left Harpers Ferry, walked across the railroad bridge, and started on the tow-path along the Potomac River, a perfectly flat 3-mile stroll. At about a mile into my hike, I felt something thud against my butt, but couldn't figure out what it was at first and continued for a few minutes. Finally took the pack off and eventually saw that all the heavy-duty stitching holding the pack body to the waist-belt had broken/snapped/dissoved/whatever. I hiked all of Maryland with only shoulder straps and what support the small horizontal stabilizer straps still attached to the waist-belt could offer.

Another failure that strengthened position in my circle of trust was last August climbing Wildcat Mountain out of Pinkham Notch. You have to climb across/up some pretty steep exposed solid rock faces on that climb. As I was taking a step, and lifting my back foot, my front foot slipped and I held my Leki hiking poles for dear life. One snapped and one bent severely. I was able to use good parts from each pole to fashion a single functioning pole, which served me well all the way to Grafton Notch, the end of our section hike. Later when back home, I called Leki to buy replacement parts and they mailed me new parts for each pole, no charge.

Rain Man

.

martinb
02-03-2014, 11:13
Let's see, there's the MSR mutha hubba that, for no explained reason, fly became stickier than gum on a hot sidewalk. It was replaced, free, by a fly with inadequate ventilation. This meant serious dripping condensation during any rainstorm in the SE. It now sits in the closet, unsellable because I would never let someone go out in it and I'm certainly not trusitng in on any BP trip.

I have/had a couple of tarp tents that were pretty miserable in SE downpours. One is gone and he other sits in the gear closet and will not be used except for a quick, local overnighter with zero possibility of rain.

Tipi Walter
02-03-2014, 11:38
I haven't had too many important failures over the years, but here are a couple.

A bigger failure was an REI pack, but of course they swapped it with no hassle, so rather than leaving my circle of trust, REI continued to remain in the absolute center of it. Still, here's the situation.

I began a section hike (all of Maryland) a couple years ago. Left Harpers Ferry, walked across the railroad bridge, and started on the tow-path along the Potomac River, a perfectly flat 3-mile stroll. At about a mile into my hike, I felt something thud against my butt, but couldn't figure out what it was at first and continued for a few minutes. Finally took the pack off and eventually saw that all the heavy-duty stitching holding the pack body to the waist-belt had broken/snapped/dissoved/whatever. I hiked all of Maryland with only shoulder straps and what support the small horizontal stabilizer straps still attached to the waist-belt could offer.

Another failure that strengthened position in my circle of trust was last August climbing Wildcat Mountain out of Pinkham Notch. You have to climb across/up some pretty steep exposed solid rock faces on that climb. As I was taking a step, and lifting my back foot, my front foot slipped and I held my Leki hiking poles for dear life. One snapped and one bent severely. I was able to use good parts from each pole to fashion a single functioning pole, which served me well all the way to Grafton Notch, the end of our section hike. Later when back home, I called Leki to buy replacement parts and they mailed me new parts for each pole, no charge.

Rain Man

.

Your pack problem is a serious field failure and can really complicate a trip. I probably should deeply inspect my pack before I go out every time, just in case. On my next trip I'm using a new pack which has not been "combat tested" even though it is brand new. Just being new is no guarantee. I have to load it up at home and hike around the house to make sure there are no surprises.

Hiking poles get a lot of abuse and I'm continually replacing the titanium tips on my Black Diamond cork models. The metal point always ends up falling off. Easy though to fix with replacement tips. And like your experience, I have broken a couple hiking poles over the years when I slip and put all my combined weight on the things. Oops. Here is a recent aluminum pole failure on the Stiffknee trail in the Slickrock wilderness---coming down the mountain in 6 inches of snow and I slipped like a bonobo monkey in a vaseline factory---SNAPPED!

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/Five-Miles-of-Living-Hell-on/i-XjZ5ksQ/0/L/TRIP%20107%20042-L.jpg


I abuse my equipment, and have not had too many problems that I blame the manufacturer. Only one stands out:

I'll never buy a pair of Garmont boots again. They suck, and they have terrible customer service.

Boots get the ire of many backpackers---we use them to death.


Let's see, there's the MSR mutha hubba that, for no explained reason, fly became stickier than gum on a hot sidewalk. It was replaced, free, by a fly with inadequate ventilation. This meant serious dripping condensation during any rainstorm in the SE. It now sits in the closet, unsellable because I would never let someone go out in it and I'm certainly not trusitng in on any BP trip.

I have/had a couple of tarp tents that were pretty miserable in SE downpours. One is gone and he other sits in the gear closet and will not be used except for a quick, local overnighter with zero possibility of rain.

The MSR tent sounds like a give-away item to someone who wants to expand their repair skills. I once gave away an older Mt Hardwear Mountain Jet to someone who had a real weakness for that particular model. I guess you could call it charity---the Bill Gates of outdoor gear? No, just doled out a few things.

Critical of Tarptents?? Wow, blashphemy!!! I love to hear people complain about TarpTents. It makes me feel good for some reason.

THE TOOTHBRUSH FAILURE IN THE FIELD
This is hardly worth mentioning but it happened on a trip, with a consequent field repair---

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2009/The-Longest-Trip-at-23-Days/i-r7MmSVn/0/M/TRIP%20102%20%20OCTOBER-NOV%202009%20131-M.jpg
My toothbrush snapped in half so I melted the broken part onto the handle and Voila! Serviceable.

BrianLe
02-03-2014, 12:02
Outside of my circle of trust are, in general, relatively small "ultralight" zippers, on clothing or tents. I've had trouble with at least five different items from this, they all seem to degrade and cause trouble. And I'm not a person who is particularly hard on gear.

Also somewhat outside are Injinji socks. I'll still bring these if I think that toe blisters are a likely issue, but fortunately that's rare in recent years. I find that if I get 500 miles on a pair of Injinji's before I've got big holes at the ball of the foot, I'm doing well, whereas something like a fox river liner sock lasts significantly longer --- and typically slowly wears out at the toe area because I've failed to keep my nails trimmed. I find the ball-of-foot failure point to be odd, as more typically socks wear out at the heels. I guess rather than say "outside the circle" it's just more that I recognize this as a limitation of Injinji socks. To be fair, I haven't bought any in a few years, always possible they've improved on this.

Inside my cicle of trust --- lots and lots of things. ASIC shoes, Montbell products, Western Mountaineering, ULA, Feathered Friends, Outdoor Research, ZPacks, Ursack, Thermarest, Lightheart Designs, Tarptent, MSR ...

I've owned quite a mix of gear items over the years and put more miles on my stuff than most; barring some individual manufacturer defect, I think that most gear from well-known as well as cottage industry companies works wonderfully well relative to weight and price. I.e., if I buy a truly ultralight backpack, I don't expect to get much more than a couple thousand miles of use out of it, that sort of thing.

poopsy
02-03-2014, 12:54
This is a really good thread. Thanks Tipi.

Outside my circle are: all shoes, all socks and SVEA 123 stoves. The reason for SVEA 123 stoves is self-evident. But shoes and socks take constant vigilence. They may be good for a while and then whammo: blow outs, blisters, holes etc. You gotta watch those socks and shoes all the time.

I've also given up on trekking poles. But that's mostly because I can't seem to trust myself to remember where I last put them down. My solution is to pick up a broom handle or stick whenever I need one.

George
02-03-2014, 13:05
cannot think of any outside - for inside:

anything I have from outdoor research - this is one of those companies that should be out of business because their stuff lasts too long

asic shoes - I finished up the 10 pair of light mesh runners that averaged about 300 miles each - pretty good for what they are/ weigh,
got 6 pair of a sturdier/ heavier model

Kompronell 4 section(great to fly with), knob top, carbon fiber stick - unfortunately this is no longer made so when it does die I am SOL - I just changed the tip again - I think I wore out 5 carbide tips so far, the bottom section is battered and scarred - but it just will not die

Tom Murphy
02-03-2014, 13:08
inside my circle - SILVA compass, Z-REST CCF pad, JRB 8x10 tarp, SVEA 123R white gas stove, also the published temperature ratings for MARMOT sleeping bags has always been reliabile [own 4 of them]

outside my circle - my ability to start and/or sustain a fire in winter or rainy conditions; I have had too many failures in practice conditions as a result I now make sure I always have a shelter and enough dry insulation for the forcasted overnight low temperature, even on relatively short day hikes

Drybones
02-03-2014, 13:46
I tried for a long time to find a small "jet flame" style lighter, so I would not have to turn a regular lighter upside down and burn my fingers while trying to light alcohol stoves. .

Can't remember who posted it, but someone made me feel like a total idiot when they posted the solution to the lighter burning the fingers, I was searching for a jet lighter as you were. They suggested dipping a twig, pine needle, whatever is at hand, into the alcohol and lighting it to start the stove, works perfect every time....can't believe I didn't think of that....and I'm supposed to be an engineer?...how humiliating!

flemdawg1
02-03-2014, 14:50
BA Aircore pads, had 5 in 4 years. And got tired of them slowly leaking all the time. Had a thermarest prolite the last 2 years and no problems yet.

teva trail runners- entire tread peeled off after about 60 miles.

BPL Abasoroka pack- BPL is no longer in the gear biz, I suspect this pack is why. Hipbelt wouldn't stay on.

Tipi Walter
02-03-2014, 16:16
Also somewhat outside are Injinji socks. I'll still bring these if I think that toe blisters are a likely issue, but fortunately that's rare in recent years. I find that if I get 500 miles on a pair of Injinji's before I've got big holes at the ball of the foot, I'm doing well, whereas something like a fox river liner sock lasts significantly longer --- and typically slowly wears out at the toe area because I've failed to keep my nails trimmed. I find the ball-of-foot failure point to be odd, as more typically socks wear out at the heels. I guess rather than say "outside the circle" it's just more that I recognize this as a limitation of Injinji socks. To be fair, I haven't bought any in a few years, always possible they've improved on this.


You bring up a good point of trust and gear, namely that several pieces of backpacking gear are "disposable" and therefore rarely a cause for concern or "trust". Case in point, socks. To me they are basically disposable items with season to season replacement. If I can get a year out of a pair of $20 Smartwool Mountaineer socks (thickest they make), I consider myself happy and eager to buy the next pair.

This goes for lexan spoons or Sea to Summit metal spoons or water bottles or shoelaces (duh) or t-shirts or silk/merino baselayers or hiking baseball style hats. Or even boots. I consider boots to be disposable items and feel great if I can get 12-18 months on a pair.

Other items even when two years old should not fail with proper care. The Exped is a case in point. And I've heard a lot of stories of NeoAir failures in the field.

Hot Flash
02-03-2014, 16:42
Great subject!
Outside my circle of trust- Crocks. The simple ones…they are ok for camp but terrible for hiking. Their failure led me to a real gem.
Inside my circle of trust- O'rageous watersport 2 $18.99 from Academy. My first pair has over 1000 trail miles and still going. Super lightweight and fast drying…great for camp and trail. It has a thick, somewhat spongy, hard to destroy sole to it. The bottom has a surface that grips when wet. –best shoes I have found. In the fall they go on sale for $9.
http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_690326_-1__?N=290330468&count=2&affcode=42&kwid=ps_cse&cid=PLA_0023413636&gclid=CKLlpvWKsLwCFZNj7AodhgoAbA (http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_690326_-1__?N=290330468&count=2&affcode=42&kwid=ps_cse&cid=PLA_0023413636&gclid=CKLlpvWKsLwCFZNj7AodhgoAbA)

Ooof, 16 oz per shoe? No thanks.

Meriadoc
02-03-2014, 17:12
Inside:
LightHeart Solo - a beast of a tent in a ridiculously light package. Survived a gnarly windstorm with nary a stake out of place.

Teva Terra FI Lite: very grippy, bomber construction. Lasted 900 miles. I wore them post trail too.

Evernew titanium 900 mL pot: survives anything.

ExOfficio Boxer briefs. One pair does indeed last 2000 miles. Still a go-to item.

Outside:
Black Diamond distance poles: wrist straps tore in under 80 miles.

Drybones
02-03-2014, 17:39
I wouldn't trust any lightweight tent that uses ultralight aluminum poles for a long hike, too easy to break a pole, I've done it just setting a tent up. Good thing about the tents that use hiking poles, worse case you break a pole and have to cut a stick.

Tipi Walter
02-03-2014, 18:11
Ooof, 16 oz per shoe? No thanks.

I noticed that too.


I wouldn't trust any lightweight tent that uses ultralight aluminum poles for a long hike, too easy to break a pole, I've done it just setting a tent up. Good thing about the tents that use hiking poles, worse case you break a pole and have to cut a stick.

It's an interesting subject and I wonder what the failure rate is for these types of poles. I'm assuming in the 7 or 8mm diameter range.

-Animal
02-03-2014, 19:24
Ooof, 16 oz per shoe? No thanks.
They are 8oz per shoe…16oz for the pair.
-they had it wrong in details, look at specifications-
http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_690326_-1__?N=290330468&count=2&affcode=42&kwid=ps_cse&cid=PLA_0023413636&gclid=CKLlpvWKsLwCFZNj7AodhgoAbA

mankind117
02-03-2014, 19:30
I have to put single wall tents (I mean tarptent style, not breathable mountaineering tents) outside the circle. I used a tarpent rainbow for a year on the east coast and I got sick of the condensation. I guess I'm a wimp but wiping my wet roof off when it is 30 degrees out when I wake up is not what I want to do. I got rained on too many times inside my tent and I'm very tall so I touch the walls quite often. IT is just too humid here. There is a very good reason for the double wall. Now I wait for the lightweight mafia to tell me how wrong I am.

Inside the circle goes 2 double wall tents from tarptent, the moment dw and the stratospire 2. I love these tents.

BobTheBuilder
02-03-2014, 19:40
"Outside my circle of trust" is perfect way to say it My Big Agnes Insulted Aircore was far and away the most comfortable pad I ever slept on. One cold, wet night it got a leak and would deflate in about 15 minutes. Worst night camping of my life. BA replaced it but I no longer trust it. Sad, because that was the most comfortable pad I ever slept on.

Tipi Walter
02-03-2014, 20:15
I have to put single wall tents (I mean tarptent style, not breathable mountaineering tents) outside the circle. I used a tarpent rainbow for a year on the east coast and I got sick of the condensation. I guess I'm a wimp but wiping my wet roof off when it is 30 degrees out when I wake up is not what I want to do. I got rained on too many times inside my tent and I'm very tall so I touch the walls quite often. IT is just too humid here. There is a very good reason for the double wall. Now I wait for the lightweight mafia to tell me how wrong I am.

Inside the circle goes 2 double wall tents from tarptent, the moment dw and the stratospire 2. I love these tents.

You are a brave man to blaspheme the TarpTent brand---it may verge on sacrilegious---an irreverence to sacred objects, etc. I myself have never had a TarpTent but there have been many times on mountaintops in hellish rain and windstorms when I wished there was one set up nearby I could test. And several users have complained of "misting" thru the silnylon fly during hard storms. Or heavy condensation. I get heavy condensation too at times in my double walls but the second wall helps a lot.

Your example of a wet roof at 30F is a very common occurrence for me---I mean conditions at 30F---as it's a normal winter day in the mountains of TN and NC and VA. But don't worry about the lightweight mafia as no tent is perfect. I could tell you all about the flaws in the Hilleberg tents. But I'll stick with the double wall system, as you say.


"Outside my circle of trust" is perfect way to say it My Big Agnes Insulted Aircore was far and away the most comfortable pad I ever slept on. One cold, wet night it got a leak and would deflate in about 15 minutes. Worst night camping of my life. BA replaced it but I no longer trust it. Sad, because that was the most comfortable pad I ever slept on.

"Trust" can be a difficult subject when it comes to air pads, neoairs, inflatables, expeds, prolites and all the rest---except for the closed cell foams. A leak can be uncomfortable at best and vexing at "middle" and downright dangerous at worst. And air pads can leak almost anywhere, a pinhole, a seam (like some neoairs), and at the valve. And then there is Thermarest delamination whereby the fabric unglues from the inner but the pad still holds air. It has happened to me many times over the last 35 years.

EXAMPLES OF THERMAREST DELAMINATION (not my pics)

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/members/images/2104/gallery/Fullsize/pj-therm1.jpg
This pic is from---
http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/gear/thermarest-problem/31841.html


http://besthike.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/neoair-fail.jpg?w=500&h=281
See, even NeoAirs can do it. This pic from---
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/johnmuirtrail/conversations/topics/14081

Meriadoc
02-03-2014, 21:48
"Trust" can be a difficult subject when it comes to air pads, neoairs, inflatables, expeds, prolites and all the rest---except for the closed cell foams. A leak can be uncomfortable at best and vexing at "middle" and downright dangerous at worst. And air pads can leak almost anywhere, a pinhole, a seam (like some neoairs), and at the valve. And then there is Thermarest delamination whereby the fabric unglues from the inner but the pad still holds air. It has happened to me many times over the last 35 years.


I agree. Inflatable pads are outside the circle of trust for me. I want gear that is simple and works. CCF pads are workhorses even if they are less comfortable.

George
02-04-2014, 00:35
I agree. Inflatable pads are outside the circle of trust for me. I want gear that is simple and works. CCF pads are workhorses even if they are less comfortable.
how about inflatable trail companions?

Grampie
02-04-2014, 09:43
Most everything can fail, sooner or later. A seasoned thru-hiker soon learns to deal with these failures.

Tipi Walter
02-04-2014, 10:44
Most everything can fail, sooner or later. A seasoned thru-hiker soon learns to deal with these failures.

But some pieces of gear fail too quickly and too soon. Ergo, outside the circle.

QiWiz
02-04-2014, 15:28
I've often thought how neat it would be to start a company making things, any things, as long as they are quality things made in the US. I suppose if I lived in France I would want things made in France, but I live in the US. Make water sprinklers, bicycles, backpack gear. The problem is, I don't think anyone would pay what it would cost to create a successful business.

All QiWiz gear is made in the USA. In fact, it's made in my basement!

But back to the OP's topic, my most disappointing item of all time was an inflatable pad from Pacific Outdoor Equipment. Began leaking on day 2 of a 9-day trip. I had to blow it back up every 90 minutes all night long for a week. It was not a puncture but a defective seam. I think they may have now gone out of business. Good riddance if so. If not, I'd stay away from their pads.

Tipi Walter
02-04-2014, 15:33
All QiWiz gear is made in the USA. In fact, it's made in my basement!

But back to the OP's topic, my most disappointing item of all time was an inflatable pad from Pacific Outdoor Equipment. Began leaking on day 2 of a 9-day trip. I had to blow it back up every 90 minutes all night long for a week. It was not a puncture but a defective seam. I think they may have now gone out of business. Good riddance if so. If not, I'd stay away from their pads.

There's some wisdom in packing a small rolled up NeoAir and leaving it in the pack, especially on any winter trips or trips longer than a weekend. OR cache an "emergency" pad in the woods by the trailhead and swing back if needed. Hopefully never needed. Or leave an extra in the car.

chall
02-04-2014, 17:15
I feel like I'm the only one to say that I'd put my ExOfficio Boxer Briefs outside the circle of trust. With all the hype about how great they are, I was shocked that I ended up with a chafed arse. I thought it was a fluke the first time I wore them, but it happened when I tried them again. UA compression shorts are my go-to currently.