A wet night in my SMD Lunar Solo ?

[Tramper Al]

Hey,

So, I had my relatively new Six Moon Design Lunar Solo tarp-tent wth me last week when I hiked the 100 mile wilderness, and I had one very wet night out. Granted, we had some impressive rainfall, and about 3 inches apparently fell the night I had trouble, but I still was quite disappointed.

I had two sources for water entering the tent, I believe.

The first was off the ceiling itself. It seemed to me that for every big raindrop that hit the roof (and there were millions that night), one or more little droplets flew off the ceiling and onto me. Perhaps this comes under the heading of condensation? It began to occur just a couple of minutes after I pitched the tarp-tent, however. I had used it the previous night in damp (but not too rainy) conditions, and done what I could to shake it out in the morning. There was no chance to catch any sun or otherwise dry it out on the trail, as it rained pretty well all day.

The second, and perhaps more concerning water entry was actual pooling at the floor margins, just inside the venting side walls. There was an impressive amount of water coming in somehow, despite my pulling the tarp down low to the stakes (and diminishing ventilation, so doubt). I couldn't tell you if it was splashing through the screen or dripping down it. This pooling resulted in most all of my gear getting rather soaked, including the head and foot of my sleeping bag with me in it! Only the front edge of the floor and the very center of the floor were spared this pooling water. I did a lot of mopping and wringing all night, but of course that's no way to get any sleep.

What am I doing wrong, do you suppose? I did seam-seal all the seams I could find, including the one I think may be critical - where the screen side walls leave the tarp ceiling. Next time I might mop my ceiling once upon set-up, but am I wrong to expect a relatively dry night after that?

Needless to say, I was loathe to commit to another tarp-tent night in the rain until I could sort this out. Two nights later fell 6 inches (!) of rain overnight at Baxter State Park, as I stayed dry at nearby Rainbow Springs Lean-to.

Any help or advice from SMD sleepers, other tarp-tent owners, or users of sil-nylon in general would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance . . .

[Footslogger]

Both my wife and I have the SMD Lunar Solo-e and both of us have spent several rainy nights in them without getting wet.

It's pretty hard to say why you had those leaks. When rain comes down hard and steady for a long time there aren't too many shelters (of any kind) that won't spring a leak somewhere. It sounds to me though like you may have pitched your Lunar Solo-e in a run-off path or otherwise low lying area ??

I will tell you that I spent a lot of time sealing the seams on our tents, especially near the top edges. I also sealed the seams heavily at the floor.

If it was me I'd take another shot at sealing those seams. Maybe I've just been lucky ...but I believe that the Lunar Solo is an extremely weather worthy tent and should keep you dry.

'Slogger

[Dainon]

If it's any consolation, I was at Siler Bald Shelter on July 9 when the Mother Of All Rains hit. I have a Shires Squall tarptent, and there was a definite "mist" coming through. The rain was hitting so hard that I assumed that the cause of the mist was some of the rain being "forced" through the tarp. My sleeping bag was damp the next morning. Perhaps it was condensation that caused it because I noticed that the ventilation was exceedingly poor that night.

I didn't have a problem with water pooling, though, or coming through the seams. I followed the instructions to the letter on seam sealing. Perhaps you could check your tent by using a garden hose or sprinkler?

[Tramper Al]

Hey 'Slogger,

Thanks for the advice. It's good to here that your Lunar Solos have kept you dry. I AM rather hoping that I can remedy this problem by being smarter or doing some more sealing or whatever, because I really liked the tent until that one wet night. It was defintely a very rainy night, but my double walled TNF 2-mans and SD Light Year CD tent have definitely kept me dry on nights like this.

My site was draining well enough when I pitched - and it had been raining pretty hard all day. Certainly, I was not seeing water pouring over the raised lip of the floor in any one place, let alone all the way around the tent. It was pooling gradually, but accumulating quickly enough. I have the 'heavy' floor option, if that matters.

Dainon, yes it was definitely as if the rain was 'forcing' it's way through. And yes, I do plan a few backyard experiments with tarp-tent and double walled side by side on a rainy day / night.

Would those in the know suggest seam sealing with the small paintbrush included or better to use a syringe? I have been using the sealant marketed specifically for sil-nylon.

Thanks again, and keep the advice coming, please.

[batoncolle]

The syringe is a little less messy but you can use either. I seam sealed both inside (on critical seams) and outside of both my Lunar Solo and Europa tents, and I've never had any issues with hard rains.

[Footslogger]

[QUOTE=Tramper Al]Would those in the know suggest seam sealing with the small paintbrush included or better to use a syringe? I have been using the sealant marketed specifically for sil-nylon.
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I mixed my own sealant by cutting regular GE Silicon Seal with mineral spirits but the Silnet would work just as well. For application I actually used both a syringe and a small foam paint brush. The syringe allowed me to lay down a nice bead of sealant and then I used the brush to push it it well down into the seam of the tent. Another thing you might try (if you didn't already) is to pull the seam apart slightly to allow the sealant to get deep into the seam and over the stitching.

'Slogger

[Two Speed]

Oddly enough I've just transitioned from a Lightyear to a Lunar. Had one or two damp nights, but after dealing with a learning curve I consider the Lunar to be the better shelter.

Two suggestions for reducing the condensation in a Lunar:
1) Leave the vestibule up as much as possible. SMD recomends this on their website and from my experience this is darn good advice, really minimizes condensation. 4 or 5 additional inches at the guy made a huge difference for me.
2) Volume helps. Using the back tie-out adds a surprising amount of usable space and allows greater distance between the fabric and your face.

The combination of getting the fabric a little farther away and better ventilation in a larger volume did the trick for me. BTW, the FAQ's on the Six Moon Designs website are worth reading, possibly more than once, IMHO.

[Tramper Al]

Two suggestions for reducing the condensation in a Lunar:
1) Leave the vestibule up as much as possible. SMD recomends this on their website and from my experience this is darn good advice, really minimizes condensation. 4 or 5 additional inches at the guy made a huge difference for me.
2) Volume helps. Using the back tie-out adds a surprising amount of usable space and allows greater distance between the fabric and your face.
Good suggestions, though I was aware of both of them during my wet night. I had a good tie-out set certainly. By leaving the vestibule 'up', I presume you mean tie it back and don't use it? Unfortunately this wasn't (isn't) a viable option in the heavy rains I experienced that night. As I said, the only part of the floor without pooling water was that along the center of the front of the Lunar Solo - thus protected by the vestibule. With driving rain, I think ventilation sometimes has to be compromised. Any ventilation would be at 100% humidity, in any event.

[Blue Jay]

I also think that condensation is your problem. Some people produce more heat than others when they sleep, I am one of those. You need to do anything you can to increase air circulation and/or lower your heat production. One way is to have the correct temperature sleeping bag so you do not produce too much heat. I have many tents, the lightest ones I cannot use under high humidity conditions because of this problem. Good luck, often you can find ways to fix this, sometimes you cannot.

[Stale Cracker]

I have recently purchased a SMD Europa 05 and spent a few nights out in it. One was a pretty rainy night on Black Balsam in August AKA Muggy August. No misting or seam leakage although my seams are not sealed but there was a lot of condensation. I was buttoned up in front and might have done better if the fly was up but then the rain would have come in. Regarding your comment that all tents leak if it rains hard enough, I have to dissagree. I have an old Eureka XT/AT that has been blown flat in rain storms but not leaked. Double wall tents have that advantage but then it weighs close to 5 lbs. My Bibler Awane dosen't leak either.

Bottom line is, I suspect, that there will be some trade offs to balance the light weight of a single wall sylnylon tent. I have not tried an ID event fabric tents which are supposed to be the best and the Tod Cloth Biblers work but they are heavy. You may get a little wet in a light weight shelter and you wouldn't want to take one into a rain forest but for a weekend the light weight may outweigh the risk of a wet night or two. One management technique might be a light weight breathable bivy sack inside your shelter.

[Youngblood]

Misting is an issue with silnylon and the misting might very well vary from batch to batch. I noticed TNF is using silnylon fly sheets that have a polyurethane undercoating and this is done to increase the waterproofness to their standards.

There is one thing I know of that might improve your situation. That is to spray on silicone that is made for fabric and maybe even brush it in a little with a foam brush. I don't know that this is a long term solution but it shouldn't be too hard to repeat the application if it is needed.

Jim Wood published this article about silnylon's waterproofness and its suitability for a tent floor: http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/Silnylon1/index.html . It is an interesting article about silnylon and some of it's limitations.

Youngblood

[Skyline]

Jim Wood published this article about silnylon's waterproofness and its suitability for a tent floor: http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/Silnylon1/index.html . It is an interesting article about silnylon and some of it's limitations.

Youngblood


Thanx Youngblood! This may be just the thing I need to try to make my SMD Europa II (04 model) more functional.

I too have noticed waterproofness not so great in driving rainstorms despite using the optional vestibule, having it sealed first by the manufacturer, then re-sealing it twice myself when that didn't do the job satisfactorily. During a severe "monsoon" that lasted a couple hours last month, water got in again--and I can't tell how, where, or why. Maybe it's misting, maybe it's through the floor?

On nights when the weather isn't severe, I like the Europa II, but you've got to have gear that works reliably in all conditions it's designed to be used in.

[ronmoak]

Tramper Al,

The phenomena of “misting” inside a silicone nylon shelter has been described a number of times over the years on different boards. Since I’ve not experienced it personally I can only provide an educated guess as to what is actually going on. The material we use for the canopy has a waterproof PSI of between 8 and 10. This should be more than adequate in preventing rain water from penetrating the shelter.

What I believe is happening is a thin layer of condensation has formed on the inner wall of the tent. When rain drops fall of sufficient force, it breaks the cohesion of water to fabric and allows little droplets to form. They are then released from the fabric and fall.

I’ve talked to several people who’ve experience this activity. Then returned home and set a dry tent up in their back yard and performed the “hose test”, only to find that no misting occurred. In all probability the hose created more force than the rainstorm where misting was detected.

Again this is speculation based upon what I’ve read. When using a single wall tent or tarp, I do always recommend using a good sleeping bag with waterproof breathable shell, as second wall of defense.

Now to the water pooling around the perimeter of the floor, it wasn’t clear from your email if you had the original or the enhanced model of the shelter. The enhanced has the bathtub floor. Also was water forming in puddles around the outside of the shelter? Since most of tents we shipped have been the newer enhanced models, I’ll assume that’s the one you have for this discussion.

The bathtub floor should be adequate to prevent most puddles from entering the tent unless you’re sleeping in a lake. Some water may enter the seam between the floor panel and the panels that makeup the side bathtub. I don’t personally seal this seam because I always look for camp locations with good drainage away from the tent.

It’s not likely that you received a significant amount of water from the “splash effect” of water bouncing under the edge of the canopy and onto the mesh sidewalls, unless you were camping on an established site with compacted ground. Even then there should be plenty of over hang. Also in the morning you would notice the tale-tale debris of litter splashed up and deposited on the side of the tent.

I would suspect that the water entered the seam where the side walls attach to the canopy. I’d suggest re-sealing this seam. Apply some stress on the seam during the application of sealant. This will help to expose the threads and needle holes to insure the sealant will properly coat the threads and fill up the holes.

Hope this helps.

Ron

[The Solemates]

When rain comes down hard and steady for a long time there aren't too many shelters (of any kind) that won't spring a leak somewhere.
'Slogger

Id have to totally disagree with this statement. Having spent the night out in many rainstorms, I would say that unless you have set your tent up in a low lying or runoff area, then ALL shelters SHOULD be leak free. We have had 4 different tents and have never gotten wet in any of them, with the exception of a couple times when we did indeed set them up in a low lying drainage (read: "bathtub") area.

[Tramper Al]

Thanks all for your comments and suggestions.

Probably first and foremost I should re-seal my seams, especially those at the intersection of ceiling and wall. My Lunar Solo is I believe the 'enhanced' model, new this Spring. It does have the heavy floor option.

The idea of using a bivy sack or other cover for a sleeping bag would of course keep it more dry with water leaking into the tent. I have to say, though, that this might rather defeat the weight advantage of carrying a tarp-tent, yes? My double-walled solo tent runs just under 3 lbs. I was using my 16 oz. Marmot Pounder on this late summer trip, and of course it does not have any integrated water-proof or -resistant shell. I have always stayed dry in tent or shelter, so have opted for synthetic sleeping bags designed to let moisture from within get out.

So, more seam-sealing and a backyard shower or two, and I'll go from there.

Thanks again . . .

[Two Speed]

Id have to totally disagree with this statement. Having spent the night out in many rainstorms, I would say that unless you have set your tent up in a low lying or runoff area, then ALL shelters SHOULD be leak free. We have had 4 different tents and have never gotten wet in any of them, with the exception of a couple times when we did indeed set them up in a low lying drainage (read: "bathtub") area.
Tramper stated that about 3" of rain fell overnight. 3" in 12 hours would be on track for a 25 year rain event in the part of the country I live in. In a 25 year storm I WOULD expect difficulty staying dry.

[The Solemates]

Okay, now that we all are up to date with our weather history, I still say that a tent should keep you dry, no matter how much water is coming down. :D Of course, I am talking about a fully enclosed tent, not a tarptent, where water can obviously enter from exposed areas. Thats why we have a tent. If we had a tarp, you are right, I wouldnt necessarily expect to stay dry, its just part of the trade-off.

[Two Speed]

Sorry, can't agree with you. By nature all tents, tarps, hammocks, etc are portable. Portable structures cannot provide the level of protection offered by permanent structures. Get enough rain and you will start having trouble staying dry. Double wall tents will resist rain longer than a single wall tent, but they also will begin demonstrating dampness, etc, if the rain is intense enough. If nothing else, rain can splash high enough to get on the breathable portion of a double wall tent. I have had that happen to me in a Clip Flashlight, which is a very dry (but heavy) tent.

Short version: If monsoons, typhoons, hurricanes or cyclones are predicted and you really object to getting wet you may wish to revise your plans. I certainly would.

[ronmoak]

The idea of using a bivy sack or other cover for a sleeping bag would of course keep it more dry with water leaking into the tent. I have to say, though, that this might rather defeat the weight advantage of carrying a tarp-tent, yes?

Thanks again . . .

I would agree and I don't recommend carrying a seperate bivy to use within the tent. My recommendation is to make sure the shell of your sleeping bag provides a layer of moisture protection.

There are waterproof / breathable specific fabrics that perform this task such as Epic fabric, GoreTex or Pertex. There are also a range of good microfiber shells with DWR finishes that provide excellent protection. With a good shell you should be able to pour a half pint of water on the shell and have it just sit there and not be absorbed.

Shells used in cheaper sleeping bags will tend to draw the water into the bag thus compromising the insulation. The primary purpose of a sleeping bag shell is to contain the insulation, provide a wind barrior and keep the insulation dry. If it doesn't perform theses tasks well, the bag should be replaced.

Al, these are just general comments and recommendations and arn't necessarly directed at you. I don't know what kind of sleeping bag you carry so I can can't comment directly on your situtation.

I do think it's important when selecting ultralight gear to match it together well. Gear that works together as a system provides better protection than when acting as just a set of individual components.

Ron

[The Solemates]

Sorry, can't agree with you. By nature all tents, tarps, hammocks, etc are portable. Portable structures cannot provide the level of protection offered by permanent structures. Get enough rain and you will start having trouble staying dry. Double wall tents will resist rain longer than a single wall tent, but they also will begin demonstrating dampness, etc, if the rain is intense enough. If nothing else, rain can splash high enough to get on the breathable portion of a double wall tent. I have had that happen to me in a Clip Flashlight, which is a very dry (but heavy) tent.

Short version: If monsoons, typhoons, hurricanes or cyclones are predicted and you really object to getting wet you may wish to revise your plans. I certainly would.

Ok, you win. But short of our on fault in setting the tent up, we have never been that wet in our single wall tent, which has seen over 200 nights on the trail in its 3 year lifetime.

[Skyline]

Ron,

Your comments about sleeping bags, even though generalized, are worth paying attention to. Especially important is that anyone with a down-filled bag have a good waterproof shell.

However, I need to point out that in the real world, we have much more than sleeping bag(s) inside the tent (or tarp-tent) that we expect to keep relatively dry as well. Sleeping pad, headlamp, journal, book, clothing not worn while sleeping, Walkman radio, backpack, etc. come to mind. Some of this can be kept within ziploc bags, but some typically is not.

I would be interested in hearing your views re: the link Youngblood posted about Jim Woods' solution for silnylon floors. I am seriously considering performing this task on my Europa II floor to hopefully increase its waterproofness and decrease its slipperyness. I'd really like your best shot at both its effectiveness and whether it would damage the tent floor, rather than something like "Go ahead, give it a try..."

Thanks,

Skyline

[Youngblood]

I bought two sleeping bags prior to my 2000 thru hike and two sleeping bags after my 2000 hike. I also bought a jacket with DWR prior to 2000 and the same model one after 2000 for a friend. The difference in the DWR finish on the post 2000 products is amazing. I tried reviving the older fabrics with a commercial spray on product but it didn't do much. Somewhere along the way DWR finishes became very resistant to mist and light rain.

Youngblood

[Two Speed]

Ok, you win . . .
Hopefully this was a discussion with value beyond scoring points off of one another. For myself, I don't view this as a win or a loss, but I do believe that everyone should be aware that all materials and designs have their limitations. If you found me rude or offensive please view it as a personality defect that I suffer from and accept my apology.

To get back on thread . . .
Tramper, the guy line I referred to is the one in front of the door. The vestibule is attached to the guy line with a prussik knot and the vestibule can be adjusted by sliding the prussik up or down. I found that by slipping the prussik up about 4, maybe 5 inches the ventilation improved dramatically without materially reducing the useable vestibule area.

[hikerjohnd]

Your comments about sleeping bags, even though generalized, are worth paying attention to. Especially important is that anyone with a down-filled bag have a good waterproof shell.
Yes - excellent point about sleeping bags! I have a the SMD Europa 05 and absolutely love it! I moved up from a Virga and have not looked back. In the Virga, I never experienced the misting issues that I have in my Europa. The nights I have spent in the rain have produced the misting effect discussed here, and I was concerned about my down bag. I could feel the misting and sometimes felt damp, but never uncomfortable. I spoke with some friends and settled on using a waterproofing down wash (nikwax I think) and that seems to keep my down dry through the night no matter how driving the rain becomes.

[digger51]

Thanks for all the info on the Lunar Solo. I plan on buying one over the winter in prep for next springs walk. It is always good to know the pros and cons before you buy, and the cons arent enough to cause me to change plans. But how are the packs they offer? Any experience with them?

[ronmoak]

However, I need to point out that in the real world, we have much more than sleeping bag(s) inside the tent (or tarp-tent) that we expect to keep relatively dry as well. Sleeping pad, headlamp, journal, book, clothing not worn while sleeping, Walkman radio, backpack, etc. come to mind. Some of this can be kept within ziploc bags, but some typically is not.


I generally view it as an organization issue. Gear that needs to be kept dry should be stored away when not in use. I find pack covers ineffective, especially with ultralight packs. So I always recommend using a tough trash compactor bag to store all items that need significant water protection. They are light, will hold everything needed and will last the duration of a thru-hike.

That said, I certainly try to design and build a tent that will provide a dry and secure environment for use in sever weather. I also believe that the tent is but a part of the entire sleep system. This is a system that starts with site selection (both macro and micro environments) and includes your personal gear tent, sleeping bag, pad and additional clothing.

Ultralight gear has progressed significantly in the last few years. And we are designing gear that will allow you to expand the limits of locations where you can safely camp. When designing gear, there’s a delicate balancing act between weight and protection that the designer must play. There’s and equally important balancing act between location and protection that user must perform if one wishes to get the optimal protection from a minimal amount of gear.




I would be interested in hearing your views re: the link Youngblood posted about Jim Woods' solution for silnylon floors. I am seriously considering performing this task on my Europa II floor to hopefully increase its waterproofness and decrease its slipperyness. I'd really like your best shot at both its effectiveness and whether it would damage the tent floor, rather than something like "Go ahead, give it a try..."


I’ve read Jim’s treatise on coating silicone nylon. Since I’ve not tried actually tried out any of his recommendations I can’t comment specifically on how effective they might be. We’ve applied silicone strips to the bottom of our tent floors to limit the slip of pads. My experience is that practice tends to be effective because the strips will collect dirt which adds friction. I’ve also noted that silicone floors will generally become less slippery over time by natural abrasion of the floor.

Adding another layer of silicone coating to the floor may improve it’s PSI rating, though by how much is unclear. Nor do I know what effects if any it’ll have on abrasion resistance.


Ron

[Skyline]

Yes - excellent point about sleeping bags! I have a the SMD Europa 05 and absolutely love it! I moved up from a Virga and have not looked back. In the Virga, I never experienced the misting issues that I have in my Europa. The nights I have spent in the rain have produced the misting effect discussed here, and I was concerned about my down bag. I could feel the misting and sometimes felt damp, but never uncomfortable. I spoke with some friends and settled on using a waterproofing down wash (nikwax I think) and that seems to keep my down dry through the night no matter how driving the rain becomes.


I don't know if what I've experienced on two occasions now (hard driving rain that lasted a couple hours each time) was "misting" or not, but the end result was pooling of water along the left side of the tent--which is typically where I lay things out that I want access to. So my sleeping bag, in the middle of the tent, stayed reasonably dry (except at the foot where the aforementioned water also accumulated some) but my other stuff got fairly wet.

I had been thinking it's a seam leak somewhere that three sealings have failed to correct, or water coming in through the floor. In less-than-monsoon conditions (regular rain) this tarp-tent is a good product and accumulation of water on the floor is not a problem.

Both times, I set up the Europa II on reasonably level ground, not in a "bowl," both times on grassy surfaces--so that should eliminate the "splash effect." Anyway, there wasn't any tell-tale debris on the outside of the tent in the morning. Setting up the tent at home and using a hose to find the alleged "leak" has not revealed any leak. So that would leave the floor, or maybe just a lot of condensation that results in small pools of water on the floor--right?

Ron, since first seeing the Europa II, I have viewed it as more tent than tarp (it sets up like and looks like a tent, has a door, netting and flooring like a tent--the only nod toward tarp is that you just use a Leki pole for support at the front). I have been expecting it to perform as a three-season TENT--at a minimum, keeping out the elements--especially since I almost always use the optional vestibule for extra protection if rain is in the forecast. Is this an unreasonable expectation?

I tried a traditional tarp a few years back and wasn't happy with how it performed in swirling rains, or in buggy conditions--so when the first generation of tarp-tents came out I jumped on that as a solution. Having also used a Eureka Zeus 2 (a single-wall tent that weighs almost twice what the Europa II weighs, but otherwise not THAT unlike a tarp-tent except for the Leki pole support) I did experience significant condensation but the other complaints about a traditional tarp were not an issue, and I and my gear stayed dry inside. Eliminating the pooling of water on the floor in long, driving rains would make the Europa II the perfect lighter weight backcountry shelter.

Also, Ron, FWIW regarding the slippery floor issue: I did paint stripes on the floor using Sil-Net upon your advice last year with negligible improvement. However, simply using the Europa II a LOT since then has resulted in somewhat less slip.

Enough words. I just talked myself into trying Jim Woods' treatment.

[Tramper Al]

Continued thanks for the follow-up posts, with more ideas on how to stay dry!

I was at first thinking you guys were talking about the substantial waterproof/breathable shells sold on sleeping bags a few years ago, though I don't see those much these days. Even my Marmot Pounder (synthetic, 40F rating, 1lb. even) has a DWR coating and it does indeed bead water, though I would not expect it to repell pooling water under my ankles for very long.

Thank you for the clarification on the FRONT guy line adjustments. The prussik knot idea sounds very useful for fine adjustment of the vestibule position, which is otherwise I think determined by the angle of that guy line (i.e. how far out you place the stake). I will definitely incorporate the prussik adjustment.

And yes my 3 inches of rain overnight in the 100 Mile should be considered a pretty good bit of water. I think I mentioned that 2 nights later we had 6-7 inches overnight, with much flooding and impassable fords. Even my several thousand pound lean-to leaked a bit that night, so every piece of gear has finite limitations. I did have the luxury of warm temps that week, however, down to only about the low 50s overnight. So staying dry was an issue of comfort, rather than safety.

Thanks for your help in extending the margins of gear and practical knowledge.

[Skyline]

Well, it's been about four hours since I applied Jim Woods' solution to the inside floor of my Europa II, and one thing I can say for sure is it has resolved the slippery floor issue. Totally. Just went out to see how it dried, and noticed a few places I needed to touch up that I missed on the inside floor, and reapplied some in places where I've noticed water before, plus the nearby seams, "just in case." I'll let it cure better overnight, pack up in the morning, and use it tomorrow on an overnighter.

It only has a faint smell to it, thankfully, and I'm betting that will dissipate over time.

I don't think I'll do the bottom (outside) just yet, preferring to wait until I experience another monsoon to see if this does the trick on that score. With a little luck, that won't be for quite awhile! :-) If not, I'll try coating the bottom floor, and if that doesn't work, I guess I'll have to be resolved to putting everything I own inside a garbage bag while inside my tent a la Ron's suggestion.