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Titty Cakes
02-11-2014, 23:06
Hi there, I guess this is a question for people who have thru hiked the AT and the PCT. I was wondering what to expect as far as distance per day on the AT. I am coming off a 2013 PCT hike where 25 miles per day was pretty leisurely for me. I understand that the AT has much more vertical gain. I was wondering what 25 miles per day on the AT would feel like in PCT mileage as far as fatigue and body wear and tear. 30-35? I would love any help with what to expect!

-Titty Cakes

Malto
02-11-2014, 23:15
I have thru hiked the PCT and hiked over 2300 miles on the AT. I personally don't see a lot of difference miles wise between the two and am quite certain I could hold my PCT average on the AT. (But I also had snow all but two days after KM so that slowed down my miles on the PCT.) While the AT has steeper climbs they tend to be shorter at least in the southern 2/3rds. BUT, I think the culture on the AT lowers the mileage for most. Between the shelters, more frequent towns and hostels and higher number of hikers I believe this accounts for more reduced mileage on the AT than any other factor.

Prime Time
02-11-2014, 23:21
Iv'e never hiked the PCT so I can't compare. In the AT last year I averaged about 18 miles per day on days that I hiked the full day (not into or out of a town) for the entire hike. Maybe about that number from Georgia to Tennessee. Maybe 22 miles per day from Virginia to Vermont and maybe about 16 per day in NH and Maine. I rarely pushed it and was in no hurry, but I kept moving.

Trance
02-11-2014, 23:30
Some days I did 25.... some days I did 15.

Alot of people I met were doing 4-8 though (the party hikers.... who are ton of fun).... it's not a race... go at your pace.

daddytwosticks
02-12-2014, 08:57
4 posts and nobody asks...tell us about your trail name? :)

garlic08
02-12-2014, 09:00
I had this exact question a few years ago before I hiked the AT after my PCT and CDT hikes. My PCT and CDT mileage averaged out to just over 19 mpd, and I ended up with just over 20 mpd on the AT (and had a blast doing it--it was not a speed hike).

I had found exactly one other person at the time (I'd never heard of Whiteblaze until after my AT hike) who had hiked the AT after the PCT and/or CDT, and she told me to expect a slower pace on the AT. That was not my experience, so I guess it really depends on the hiker.

Here's an excerpt from my journal (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=244772): "The question I've heard the most is how would I compare the AT to the other two trails, the PCT and CDT. Since I hiked those trails first, I can't really give an answer that would mean anything to anyone who hasn't hiked those trails, too. My experience on those trails shaped my hiking style so much, it's pretty foreign to the AT. But for me, the AT was slightly easier on the whole. I never felt much extreme risk on the AT, as I did on the high snowfields and icy swollen stream fords and long desert crossings out West. Water and food sources were very seldom a concern on the AT--they were almost negligible at times."

Very few hikers come to the AT from the PCT. For most, the first thru hike is the hardest and that makes sense. Good luck on the AT--it's a really fun trail.

Slo-go'en
02-12-2014, 11:06
There are many factors which will affect your daily milage. Since most people stay at or near shelters (but maybe not in them) along the AT, shelter spacing has a big infulence on typical daily milage. All the rain during April and May, along with the frequent town stops also tends to slow people down.


The middle section the the AT is much easier then the two ends, so that is where most do the highest mpd and bumps the average mpd up to something which seems reasonable. So, typically, hikers will start out farily slow in GA/NC, start to pick up speed in VA, really cruse through the rest of the mid-Atlantic states and then slow way down again in NH and Maine.

Mags
02-12-2014, 11:38
Most experienced thru-hikers who do the AT *after* the PCT or CDT (or both!) find that the AT mileage is not really any lower than the other two trails overall.

For most people, the AT is their first long hike. The packs tend to be heavier, the hiker is not as experienced and they are typically not as in good shape as in later trails. AS mentioned above, the AT is more social as well so the mileage tends to be lower overall. More time in towns and hiking shelter to shelter, basically (vs less time in towns and camping in non-established areas)

Not to say the AT is easy by any means. There are PUDs for sure, but they are short. And you can't discount the multiple days of rain. But, I don't think it is any more physically difficult than the other two *overall*.

(THe exception is northern New England. Those old, gnarly trails that go straight up for 3000' gain are hard by any standard! :D)

Son Driven
02-12-2014, 12:22
Personally I believe, schedules, agendas and goals are for the work place. I like getting up with the sun and going down with the sun, and whatever happens in-between is what got done. I am thankful for the experiences of that day. If you find pleasure in racing past the sites, smells, and encounters in a quest of big mile days, go for it. HYOH.

fredmugs
02-12-2014, 12:46
Personally I believe, schedules, agendas and goals are for the work place. I like getting up with the sun and going down with the sun, and whatever happens in-between is what got done. I am thankful for the experiences of that day. If you find pleasure in racing past the sites, smells, and encounters in a quest of big mile days, go for it. HYOH.

Why do you dump on threads and end with HYOH?

fredmugs
02-12-2014, 12:50
Hi there, I guess this is a question for people who have thru hiked the AT and the PCT. I was wondering what to expect as far as distance per day on the AT. I am coming off a 2013 PCT hike where 25 miles per day was pretty leisurely for me. I understand that the AT has much more vertical gain. I was wondering what 25 miles per day on the AT would feel like in PCT mileage as far as fatigue and body wear and tear. 30-35? I would love any help with what to expect!

-Titty Cakes

For me it's not the vertical gains on the AT it's the rocks, mud, and tree roots. I've only done 600+ miles on the PCT so far but they have all been walkable as opposed to picking your way through, over, and around obstacles. I think you have the ratio down fairly well.

Mags
02-12-2014, 12:54
Yogi put it succinctly: HYOH is often another way of saying "Go eff off".

She used a much more colorful phrase, however. :)

HikerMom58
02-12-2014, 12:54
4 posts and nobody asks...tell us about your trail name? :)

I knew someone would go there... the prize goes to daddytwosticks!! :D

daddytwosticks
02-12-2014, 13:19
I knew someone would go there... the prize goes to daddytwosticks!! :D
I'm sure that there is an interesting story here. Do tell! I'm stuck at home in this damn snowstorm waiting for spring. I NEED some entertainment before I go out and shovel the snow. :)

HikerMom58
02-12-2014, 13:32
I'm sure that there is an interesting story here. Do tell! I'm stuck at home in this damn snowstorm waiting for spring. I NEED some entertainment before I go out and shovel the snow. :)

That's :cool: I'm right with ya. I want to hear the story as well. When I saw the name, I was like.. Okay... inquiring minds want to know. I was patiently waiting for someone to ask.. you didn't disappoint. :D

I hear ya on the snowstorm. How much snow did you get in NC? We are in the storm's path too.... thundersnow has been predicted! Should be interesting!

daddytwosticks
02-12-2014, 13:37
That's :cool: I'm right with ya. I want to hear the story as well. When I saw the name, I was like.. Okay... inquiring minds want to know. I was patiently waiting for someone to ask.. you didn't disappoint. :D

I hear ya on the snowstorm. How much snow did you get in NC? We are in the storm's path too.... thundersnow has been predicted! Should be interesting!
Only about 2" so far, but more to come throughout the day. A heavy, wet snow that klings to the snowshovel and causes one to cuss and fuss. I knew I should have waxed the shovel this fall. :)

Titty Cakes
02-12-2014, 13:49
Wow, thanks for all the responses! So for the trail name... It originally started as TDK, for tall dark and kilted, which was how I was described to some hikers behind me who caught up to me. We hiked a while and one morning someone asked something along the lines of "who's stove is that?". The response was "oh, that's TDK's" which was misinterpreted as "oh, that's Titty Cakes." A few days before I had met a guy named Breastfeeder. I decided if Breastfeeder could own his name then I could own Titty Cakes. So wherever you are Breastfeeder, thanks for the inspiration.

Titty Cakes
02-12-2014, 14:00
Also, I am glad to know the trail shouldn't be extremely more physically challenging. I know the trail is not a race but for me I want this hike to be more disciplined. My PCT SOBO hike was ironically very social for me, I traveled with a group about half the time and took many, many 0 days. For this trip I really like the idea of finishing in 99 days. I figure 25 mpd, 1 day off a week, and I have it in the bag. I also really like the idea of starting late and going fast so I can meet as many hikers as I can. My favorite and least expected part of thru hiking I found was how awesome everybody is and how much I loved talking to everyone I meet. Thanks again for the responses, you guys rock! Happy Trails!

HikerMom58
02-12-2014, 14:00
Wow, thanks for all the responses! So for the trail name... It originally started as TDK, for tall dark and kilted, which was how I was described to some hikers behind me who caught up to me. We hiked a while and one morning someone asked something along the lines of "who's stove is that?". The response was "oh, that's TDK's" which was misinterpreted as "oh, that's Titty Cakes." A few days before I had met a guy named Breastfeeder. I decided if Breastfeeder could own his name then I could own Titty Cakes. So wherever you are Breastfeeder, thanks for the inspiration.

Ha Ha... that's a great story! Now all we need is Breastfeeder to join WB! Thanks for sharing Titty Cakes. :D

daddytwosticks- you can go out and shovel now! ;) I do hate that when the snow sticks to the shovel. Grr....

Tuxedo
02-12-2014, 14:02
I decided if Breastfeeder could own his name then I could own Titty Cakes. So wherever you are Breastfeeder, thanks for the inspiration.

And can I hear an AAhhhmen

I think if you have the PCT on the resume the AT will be fun miles I see a Vegas odds +/-97day thru with weather and health being average. With these nor-east'r hitting more and more who knows.

evyck da fleet
02-12-2014, 14:35
I agree with Mags. It took me three weeks to get to Gatlinburg on the AT but only 2 week to hike the JMT the following year. I was a complete newbie before the AT and would say terrain had little effect when comparing my mileage between the trails. What did? Inexperience in preventing blisters(two shorter days), a couple shorter days due to lightning, hail etc, lost hiking time(which I don't regret) hanging around talking to other hikers at lunch, snack or dinner breaks, and the fact that at its heaviest on the JMT my pack was still 5 pounds lighter than when I started off from Amicalola Falls. I also started the AT in mid to late April and enjoyed hiking through the bubble and meeting lots of different hikers so I think you could start as late as early May and avoid the heat until the flat mid Atlantic area.

CarlZ993
02-12-2014, 14:59
Which is the hardest trail? The AT is shorter in distance but has more elevation gains/losses than either the PCT or CDT. I posed that question to a triple crown hiker who was in the middle of his yo-yo AT hike in 2013 (if successful, it would have been his 2nd yo-yo). He said that the AT was harder.

I don't know. I haven't thru-hiked the PCT (have hiked from Tahoe to Whitney Portal) or the CDT. I found the wet rock in VT, NH, & ME very terrifying. I fell often on that slick stuff.

I would think I could easily maintain a much higher average mileage on the PCT or CDT. Hopefully, I can test that hypothesis at some point.

Rolls Kanardly
02-12-2014, 16:12
Now that is funny. And to think so many work so hard to come up with a name that is unique. You got to just love spontaneity. Rolls

ugggggggh
02-12-2014, 16:28
uggggggh...

Malto
02-12-2014, 17:01
Which is the hardest trail? The AT is shorter in distance but has more elevation gains/losses than either the PCT or CDT. I posed that question to a triple crown hiker who was in the middle of his yo-yo AT hike in 2013 (if successful, it would have been his 2nd yo-yo). He said that the AT was harder.

I don't know. I haven't thru-hiked the PCT (have hiked from Tahoe to Whitney Portal) or the CDT. I found the wet rock in VT, NH, & ME very terrifying. I fell often on that slick stuff.

I would think I could easily maintain a much higher average mileage on the PCT or CDT. Hopefully, I can test that hypothesis at some point.

False,
the pct has a more elevation gain and loss thatn the AT. The At may have more per mile but not overall.

CarlZ993
02-12-2014, 17:54
False,
the pct has a more elevation gain and loss that the AT. The At may have more per mile but not overall.
I'd read a comparison of the elevation gain/loss of the three trails that showed the AT had more than the other two. Now I got to see if I can find that reference. I'll let you guys know if I can find it. From what I recall, the ranking of the big three was: AT, CDT, & PCT. Anyway, I'll be on a treasure hunt to see if I can find that source.

CarlZ993
02-12-2014, 17:56
I don't know if this info is accurate. This is what I based my statement on.

http://equipped.outdoors.org/2013/10/total-elevation-gainloss-on-appalachian.html

lonehiker
02-12-2014, 18:17
I was just about to post same site. Looks like AT beats PCT hands down.....

Colter
02-12-2014, 18:24
Personally, I'd be willing to bet that all things being equal the miles come a little harder on the AT.

I think there are more "pointless ups and downs" on the A.T. I think that might have a more mental effect than a physical effect. I don't know about the total amount of climbing on each trail, but the A.T. is undoubtedly steeper per mile.

The same for rain. The A.T. tends to be a rainier trail. That can speed you up or slow you down depending on the kind of person you are. Some might want to sleep in or knock off early to minimize rain, some will skip breaks and keep walking because it's too wet to sit down for a break!

Except for snow, I think the tread tends to be easier on the PCT as well.

The AT tends to be a more social trail, and in general I think that slows people as many try to stay with their trail friends.

As others have pointed out, a huge factor is prior experience and the order in which you hike the trails. There are also many wild cards like snow levels, health, etc.

Colter
02-12-2014, 18:32
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0406/excerpt2.html

daddytwosticks
02-12-2014, 19:31
Titty Cakes...thanks for the great story about your trail name. Happy hiking. :)

Malto
02-12-2014, 20:04
From a previous thread.

NOBO CDT total elevation gain-457340 ft
NOBO CDT total elevation loss-457770 ft


NOBO PCT total elevation gain-753190 ft
NOBO PCT total elevation loss-752160 ft


and (once again)
NOBO AT total elevation gain-628900 ft
NOBO AT total elevation loss-628620 ft

See post 53.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?70502-Has-anyone-ever-bothered-to-figure-out-the-total-elevation-gain/page3&highlight=at+pct+cdt+elevation

lonehiker
02-12-2014, 21:20
Because of the conflicting data I decided to contact the PCTA. I spoke with the Trail Information Specialist and he told me that the current estimates of the elevation gain/loss are wildly inaccurate (his verbage). So they basically don't know with any degree of confidence what it is. However, he said that this summer (2014) there is going to be a major mapping project that will determine this information.

lonehiker
02-12-2014, 21:21
Forgot to add that this data would be published in the November-ish time-frame.

Malto
02-12-2014, 21:24
Because of the conflicting data I decided to contact the PCTA. I spoke with the Trail Information Specialist and he told me that the current estimates of the elevation gain/loss are wildly inaccurate (his verbage). So they basically don't know with any degree of confidence what it is. However, he said that this summer (2014) there is going to be a major mapping project that will determine this information.

if you read through the thread that I attached you will see the methodology that was used in the estimates I referenced. Since the same methodology was used for all three trails I believe these over any single number for a trail. In the end though I really doesn't matter. You have to hike the miles regardless of the climb.

Malto
02-12-2014, 21:29
Actually here is THE definitive answer. From http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0406/excerpt1.html

The Pacific Crest Trail
Here's the beguiling secret about the Pacific Crest Trail: Despite the route's extremes of climate—from deserts to glaciers—it's a relatively easy hike. Switchbacks and a trail graded for use by horses means backpackers on the PCT can cover twice the ground in a day as their counterparts on the Appalachian Trail. And the two principal mountain ranges the PCT travels, the Sierra and Cascades, enjoy the most benign summer weather imaginable for ranges that top 12,000 feet (3,658 meters).

So I guess that means that you will only be able to do 10-13 mpd if you did 20-25mpd on the PCT. I love articles like this. This is how wildly inaccurate stories get started.

garlic08
02-12-2014, 21:56
I think the hardest of the Triple Crown trails is your first one. I did the AT last and it was the easiest (or rather least hard) for me.

Slo-go'en
02-12-2014, 22:02
From the few western trails I've hiked, they are significanly less stumbly then the average AT tread. I bet mile for mile, you burn more calories on the AT then on the PCT.

Mags
02-13-2014, 01:02
From the few western trails I've hiked, they are significanly less stumbly then the average AT tread. I bet mile for mile, you burn more calories on the AT then on the PCT.

By any chance were they in national parks? Overall NPS grade tends to be much easier than USFS or BLM grade. Hike RMNP and then hike the Gore Range. Night and day difference.

Slo-go'en
02-13-2014, 01:24
By any chance were they in national parks? Overall NPS grade tends to be much easier than USFS or BLM grade. Hike RMNP and then hike the Gore Range. Night and day difference.

Yes, a lot of it was NP trail, Glacier, Yellowstone, Tetons, but also in the Beartooths and in the Candian Rockies. I'm not talking grade so much as the the actual tread. I don't have to look at where my feet are stepping nearly as much out west as I need to on the AT, where if you want to look around, you'd best stop first or you'll trip over something.

Although, if you go off trail and try to climb a tallis slope to get to a summit, that can be tricky.

lonehiker
02-13-2014, 01:27
Actually here is THE definitive answer. From http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0406/excerpt1.html

The Pacific Crest Trail
Here's the beguiling secret about the Pacific Crest Trail: Despite the route's extremes of climate—from deserts to glaciers—it's a relatively easy hike. Switchbacks and a trail graded for use by horses means backpackers on the PCT can cover twice the ground in a day as their counterparts on the Appalachian Trail. And the two principal mountain ranges the PCT travels, the Sierra and Cascades, enjoy the most benign summer weather imaginable for ranges that top 12,000 feet (3,658 meters).

So I guess that means that you will only be able to do 10-13 mpd if you did 20-25mpd on the PCT. I love articles like this. This is how wildly inaccurate stories get started.

I don't see how an article from NG Adventure magazine can necessarily be definitive. Where did they get their data? Regardless I will wait until later this year and see what results the project finds. You are correct in that the elevation has to be hiked regardless. I usually don't factor in elevation into my mileage plans.

kennyxedge
02-13-2014, 04:01
Regardless of what trail has the most ups and downs, the fact that you've done the PCT should give you a really good idea as to what you're getting yourself into. 20 mile days shouldn't be a problem in most areas.

fiddlehead
02-13-2014, 05:22
Besides the steepness of the climbs and descents on the AT vs PCT, another BIG difference is weather.
I didn't sleep in a tent for the first 800 miles of the PCT. Just under then stars.
And I remember hiking in 11 days in a row of heavy rain on the AT.
Yeah, we had our rain in WA but nothing compared to that wet feeling when nothing will dry out on the AT and you have to hit town just for the dryer at the laundromat sometimes.

Yeah, the PCT can have 500 miles of continuous snow some years, but blue sky along with it.

So, it all depends on the year and of course there's no planning that can predict that.

Looking at this year already: AT starters are spending some hard earned money in hotel rooms waiting out the storms and although the PCT hasn't started yet, they are most likely going to have fire and water problems this year.

Malto
02-13-2014, 07:45
I don't see how an article from NG Adventure magazine can necessarily be definitive. Where did they get their data? Regardless I will wait until later this year and see what results the project finds. You are correct in that the elevation has to be hiked regardless. I usually don't factor in elevation into my mileage plans.

Oops, I forgot to put put my "dripping with sarcasm smilie on my post. There was nothing definitive about the NatGeo article, it is complete foolishness.

Sierra2015
02-13-2014, 07:55
Oops, I forgot to put put my "dripping with sarcasm smilie on my post. There was nothing definitive about the NatGeo article, it is complete foolishness.
I liked "wildly inaccurate" more.

Satisfies my soft, gooey, irony loving insides.

BrianLe
02-13-2014, 12:46
I suggest that you cut 2 - 3 MPD off of what you're used to on the PCT, but of course where you are on the trail, and when, those matter. My experience is somewhat impacted by an early (and a 'fat') start in Georgia. But for the most part I felt like 25 was a good mileage for a PCT hiking day, I felt okay on the AT if I did over 20. The AT trail quality is overall crappier and less well graded. So often on the PCT where you can "just cruise", on the AT you have to be a pretty strong hiker to sustain a good pace up and down steeper overall gradients, often with a lot more in the way of roots and rocks. Certainly not all of the time, but you will find yourself on occasion fantasizing about finding trail like in, say, much of Oregon ...

But, I think I did over 20 miles every full hiking day once I was in Virginia (and out of snow and blowdowns) until getting to the Whites. I suggest that you don't lightly dismiss what you hear about the Whites as hype; I did myself some harm trying to push through to do 20+ days in there. Some of that is low level scrambling rather than hiking.

And unless you're hiking to a schedule --- who cares? Just take what the trail gives on any given day and hike what makes sense to hike. I heard so much about the "rocks in Pennsylvania" for example --- what I didn't recall hearing was how the state is relatively flat, so if you can just keep your feet moving, you can keep up an okay pace.

takethisbread
02-13-2014, 18:07
a lot of folks here have much more experience than I do on western trails. that said, I found hiking long sections on the PCT a lot easier than the AT , not even close. just the walking part. the PCT had better scenery and required me to plan and risk a lot more. and the relentless sun is a much underrated obstacle . it's really tough to get used to. the terrain and the weather on the AT Is much much harder. at Least in the south and the north. I also have hiked the CT (not the CDT) and I enjoyed that path as well, although there was some pretty steep climbs on that. folks on here have a Ton of experience on those trails tho, and I'm not saying they are easier to hike, just that the walking is easier in my experience. I cranked out a bunch of 30's in Oregon a few years ago. I have only done a 30 once on the AT that was Jug end rd to pine swamp lean to which is a easy section.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bamboo bob
02-13-2014, 18:34
I think the AT is harder day to day because it is rare to find trail graded for horses. But miles are shorter because while on the western trails you hike until you feel like stopping, on the AT there are many reasons to stop earlier than you would otherwise. You get to a shelter and there's a bunch of people you know. Some people may just blow on by to make some predetermined mile plan but typically one says "hey dude" chats and think I might as well stay here. Some people might cook and then say in a macho way " I can put in more miles because it's still light out" or "lets night hike"
Night hiking is fine on the smooth PCT but on the AT only rocks glow in the dark, roots, not so much. The blazes light up nicely though. There is also endless "trail Magic" especially in Georgia. How can you not stop and eat your fill plus beer? Slow going. Yes a lot of newbies go slow but so do a lot of veterans. I actually did my 2nd AT to see if it was really so hard. It wasn't. But there was way more free food, hostels, restaurants, etc etc. AND don't forget there is at least ten times or more , more people on the AT than the other trails. Plenty of people to stop and chat with. Yes it's slower unless you just are about getting miles in. On my third AT (in sections) I defintely did more miles because I just hiked as I did on the PCT and tried not to stay at shelters. I just tented when it got late. Unless pouring or in the Smokies.

Mee High
02-21-2014, 10:34
Iv'e never hiked the PCT so I can't compare. In the AT last year I averaged about 18 miles per day on days that I hiked the full day (not into or out of a town) for the entire hike. Maybe about that number from Georgia to Tennessee. Maybe 22 miles per day from Virginia to Vermont and maybe about 16 per day in NH and Maine. I rarely pushed it and was in no hurry, but I kept moving.
finally an answer that answers my questions about mileage. so, a steady movement, even at a lower speed will help my wanted 15 miles a day average.

swjohnsey
02-22-2014, 12:22
Also, the last third of the trail will probably take half the time. To average 15 mpd overall you will have to hit the Whites ahead of that.