Risks of Alcohol Stoves [Archive]

Sarcasm the elf

02-23-2014, 23:24

I came across this article and video and thought that it was worth reposting here. Alcohol stoves great pieces of gear, but they carry some risk and this is a good reminder.

Keep in mind that most of the people in the video had already hiked all of the A.T. and most of the PCT when the footage was filmed.

http://youtu.be/QrGFRhjIFss

Original article:

http://www.pcta.org/2014/dangers-alcohol-stoves-video-17113/

Watch hikers talk about the danger of alcohol stoves

We asked Shane “Jester” O’Donnell for a little background about this video. Here it is.

“Considering Your History” is a short film shot while doing a thru-hike of the PCT in 2008.

To my mind, what is remarkable about the story is that it’s not actually all that remarkable. Almost everyone I know who has used an alcohol stove has a story about a near-disaster that was caused by inattention. Even people who have plenty of experience can still make mistakes – Coyote, the woman telling the story, is a Triple Crowner.

I made this video not to scare people but to highlight the fact that we all need to be vigilant when we’re cooking in the wilderness, regardless of what method we’re using.

Since it seems like fire bans are becoming more frequent in the West, I think it’s incumbent upon all of us to know and follow the regulations and recommendations wherever we’re backpacking, and not to think: “I know what I’m doing. I’m not going to be the person who starts a forest fire.”

Accidents happen all too frequently. Putting yourself in the best position to avoid them might mean changing how you cook as well as paying attention all of the time, regardless of method.

For more of Jester’s videos, check out tbwproductions.com and youtube.com

Author: Jack "Found" Haskel

rocketsocks

02-23-2014, 23:33

All good points, thanks Elf.

perhaps cooking in your tent needs to be addressed as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w492-EVCHQo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w492-EVCHQo

Wise Old Owl

02-23-2014, 23:36

Wow not sure where you think this thread should go... look any stove/wood fire can cause a problem - while making stoves, I too have had one blow up and set my shirt on fire... I have had a gasoline Wisperlite start badly - I got control quickly. You still need to clear the ground clear the leaves and do the right thing...

ONE NOTE. Water will stop an alcohol stove - period.

rocketsocks

02-23-2014, 23:41

Wise Old Owl

02-23-2014, 23:44

At the time I was - I left out the JB Weld at the test. Stuff happens.

OzJacko

02-23-2014, 23:51

All stoves are dangerous.
When hiking the Bib I met an old guy from UK who had hiked all over the world including the Triple Crown (although not in single year thruhikes).
He told me how at the start of the PCT (or CDT - Arizona anyway), he had the hose come off on his multifuel stove. He had this hose snaking around blowing fuel everywhere and fire starting all over.
He not only had burnt feet and hands, and lost half his gear, but then spent quite a large part of the night in custody facing fire bug charges (the fire got VERY out of hand), before the Sheriff took pity on him. He slept in the home of the Latino taxi driver who picked him up from the jail.

Wise Old Owl

02-23-2014, 23:53

wow that's sad... when he woke up how was his hangover?

4eyedbuzzard

02-23-2014, 23:56

Remind me of this thread the next time the, "Why aren't Boy Scouts allowed to use alcohol stoves", question comes up.

rocketsocks

02-24-2014, 00:00

Remind me of this thread the next time the, "Why aren't Boy Scouts allowed to use alcohol stoves", question comes up.
Agree 100%, cause a mishap can happen to anyone. Funny you should mention this, just had that conversation with a friend, and I agree with him...Scouts should use wood, all the time. Kicking a bed of coals (while not good) is better than kicking over an alcohol stove.

OzJacko

02-24-2014, 00:01

wow that's sad... when he woke up how was his hangover?
Stone cold sober type.
Drank a lot of tea.

Point is - ALL stoves are dangerous if treated carelessly. Especially the one in your kitchen.

rocketsocks

02-24-2014, 00:08

Wow, even cookin crawfish on the grill can be dangis.

26077

the point is if you don't respect fire, you can get burned.

Sierra2015

02-24-2014, 02:25

What type of stove do you guys recommend for me? I was going to buy a $20 alcohol stove. (I don't want to eat out of a cat food tin.)

Sarcasm the elf

02-24-2014, 09:38

WOO, since you asked, I posted this simply as a reminder about the risks. Alcohol stoves are great when used carefully, but they are probably the stove type that are most prone to human error. This is the time of year when a lot of aspiring thru hikers are on this site looking for advice and I thought that the video was a good example of why you need to be careful and pay attention when you are using an alcohol stove, or any other type of stove for that matter.

You are correct that White gas/multifuel stoves can be far more dangerous if they fail, I nearly blew myself up years ago using a Coleman Peak 1. That said in the past few years I have probably seen 10 people carrying alcohol stoves on the A.T. for every one white gas stove, so I feel that this reminder is quite relevant.

Don H

02-24-2014, 09:52

Remind me of this thread the next time the, "Why aren't Boy Scouts allowed to use alcohol stoves", question comes up.

I'm guessing you're referring to the thread I started which asked the question "Has anyone had a serious safety issues with these stoves?" not the question you stated. I was looking for honest, unbiased answers to safety issues with these types of stove.

The Boy Scouts would have more sense and be better supervised!

bfayer

02-24-2014, 10:05

What type of stove do you guys recommend for me? I was going to buy a $20 alcohol stove. (I don't want to eat out of a cat food tin.)

I know I am going to get beat up for saying this, but if you have limited experience cooking on the trail, then I recommend you get a canister stove not an alcohol stove.

Alcohol stoves work great, but they do have a bit of a learning curve and tend to be a little more work getting them set up and cooking. I know more than a few very experienced hikers that switched to alcohol to save weight, but have since switch back to canisters for the convenience.

Hot Flash

02-24-2014, 10:08

The Boy Scouts would have more sense and be better supervised!

Yeah, their leaders have sooo much sense. Enough sense to knock over ancient rock formations for fun.

garlic08

02-24-2014, 10:18

...I know more than a few very experienced hikers that switched to alcohol to save weight, but have since switch back to canisters for the convenience.

Agreed. And I know a very few who have switched to no stove at all, to completely eliminate that risk (low among many reasons). I saw a few alky stove accidents (one was scalding from water which would have happened with any stove) on my first thru hike and that affected my decision not to carry one anymore.

I personally narrowly avoided causing a wildland fire in Colorado with alcohol because I knew water would put it out and I had plenty of it. Risk assessment and damage control must go with the decision to use any stove, anywhere, including as noted above in the kitchen. (Do you have a dry chem extinguisher nearby?)

Don H

02-24-2014, 10:18

Yeah, their leaders have sooo much sense. Enough sense to knock over ancient rock formations for fun.

And they were immediately removed from the program.

bfayer

02-24-2014, 10:28

Yeah, their leaders have sooo much sense. Enough sense to knock over ancient rock formations for fun.

Wow that was a very bigoted response. You do realize there are tens of thousands of boy scout leaders in this country, and they all volunteer their time to help work with kids. In my troop alone we have leaders that are corporate executives, active duty military, and PHDs that work for NASA.

I guess I don't really know how to respond to someone that judges a whole group of people based on the actions a few.

Sarcasm the elf

02-24-2014, 11:07

Drybones

02-24-2014, 11:53

I know I am going to get beat up for saying this, but if you have limited experience cooking on the trail, then I recommend you get a canister stove not an alcohol stove.

Alcohol stoves work great, but they do have a bit of a learning curve and tend to be a little more work getting them set up and cooking. I know more than a few very experienced hikers that switched to alcohol to save weight, but have since switch back to canisters for the convenience.

This looks like an invitation, everyone pill on Bfayer. As with every thing in life, one shoe doesn't fit all and you settle in with whatever works best for you.For someone just starting out I'd probably agree a canister as the place to start, it's where I started, then tried a Jetboil, then Nesbit and at last settled on a home made alcohol stove I made from a hair spray can, I use it with a Foster pot because it fits snugly into the depression in the Foster bottom. I still use the other methods on short hikes just for the sake of it. I have a cat can stove I use with the Jetboil fry pan because the Jetboil cooks bacon, eggs, and hash too fast.

Drybones

02-24-2014, 11:55

Yeah, their leaders have sooo much sense. Enough sense to knock over ancient rock formations for fun.

Would you fill us in as to what you are referring to?

Drybones

02-24-2014, 12:02

What type of stove do you guys recommend for me? I was going to buy a $20 alcohol stove. (I don't want to eat out of a cat food tin.)

The pastor in a church I went to in Broadway, VA gave a sermon where he pulled out a can of dog food and read on the label "tastes great", he asked the congegarion if they believed it and said the only way to find out is to taste it, he went thu a drawn out presentation to work the crowd up and finally pulled out a spoon full and ate it, people were gagging and several women rushed out to throw up. The message was about not believing everything you read, he then let us all know he had replace the wrapper on a chilly can with one from the dog food.

Drybones

02-24-2014, 12:08

All stoves are dangerous.
.

So are rocks, sticks, knives, football, baseball, people, and everything else in this world...situational awareness is the best we can do to protect ourselves. I've seen people that thier greatest danger was themselves....an accident waiting to happen, know one guy I could spend all day telling stories about that you wouldn't believe.

FarmerChef

02-24-2014, 12:36

The pastor in a church I went to in Broadway, VA gave a sermon where he pulled out a can of dog food and read on the label "tastes great", he asked the congegarion if they believed it and said the only way to find out is to taste it, he went thu a drawn out presentation to work the crowd up and finally pulled out a spoon full and ate it, people were gagging and several women rushed out to throw up. The message was about not believing everything you read, he then let us all know he had replace the wrapper on a chilly can with one from the dog food.

Loved that. Thanks.

MDSection12

02-24-2014, 12:38

What type of stove do you guys recommend for me? I was going to buy a $20 alcohol stove. (I don't want to eat out of a cat food tin.)
I don't eat out of my stove. :)

msupple

02-24-2014, 12:47

You can eliminate some of the danger of alky stoves by using one that soaks up the alcohol such as Zelph's Starlyte. Of course this only eliminates fuel from spreading in the case of a knock over. In my opinion the greater danger is adding more fuel to the stove while thinking it was out. That can happen with any alky stove and was the mistake made by the girl in the video. In my pursuit to conserve fuel I've often mistakenly not added enough fuel to finish my boil. Although I've never added more fuel while the stove was still lit, I've experienced a few nervous moments when refueling while the stove was still pretty hot. I've since moved on to a Bushbuddy wood stove and have no regrets.

Cat in the Hat

lonehiker

02-24-2014, 15:30

What type of stove do you guys recommend for me? I was going to buy a $20 alcohol stove. (I don't want to eat out of a cat food tin.)

There is nothing wrong with your using a $20 alcohol stove. Fuel is readily available as well.

4eyedbuzzard

02-24-2014, 17:35

What type of stove do you guys recommend for me? I was going to buy a $20 alcohol stove. (I don't want to eat out of a cat food tin.)If you're going with alky, I'd recommend Zelph's Starlyte http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/ due to its no-spill design. Couple that with a large hard anodized mug or pot and you've got a good combo. Get a light insulated mug if you like hot coffee/tea so you can enjoy hot drink while heating water for meal.

But, just know that alky stoves do not heat water anywhere near as quickly as canister stoves, and can be fussy in the wind and cold even with a windscreen. Often, hikers with canisters will already be eating while you are waiting for water to heat. To be honest, the actual long term carry weight is about even given alcohol's low heat value as a fuel. Sgt. Rock here at WB and others have analyzed the weight factor and found that on longer hikes, canisters are probably slightly more weight efficient. They definitely have less fuss factor, especially a Jetboil. But a JB pot isn't much good over a wood fire. Like many other gear options there is always a compromise to be made. If I were going to thru-hike, I would probably start with a canister for as long as the cold weather persisted, and then switch to using wood whenever possible with alcohol as a back up.

Sierra2015

02-24-2014, 17:49

CalebJ

02-24-2014, 17:53

You can pick up a SnowPeaks LiteMax Ti for about $30 with coupon at Sierra Trading Post. Add an Olicamp XTS pot and you're at the lighter end of the JetBoil spectrum for half the price.

4eyedbuzzard

02-24-2014, 17:58

I originally wanted a JetBoil (saw one at SportsChalet) then decided I'd get a SnowPeaks and then again decided on a 1oz alcohol stove.

The price of the alcohol stove decided it for me.... But if I'm going to lose out on quality then I might change my mind.

I'm mostly planning to become a weekend warrior and then see how the wind blows next winter. If I really want to thru-hike next year or the year after or what. (I want to do it before I'm married and settled down with 13 kids or something.) Is an alcohol stove the best choice for weekend hikes? And a canister for a thru-hike?In better weather an alky will be fine and weekend hikes will give you time to learn how to use it. Practice a few times even before the weekend hikes though. Make some coffee, ramen, whatever. Some people have better luck or maybe are just better than me at getting them to work well in the wind. To me they're just a bit fussy and slow when I most want hot water fast.
13 kids huh? You trying to scare off potential suitors?

CalebJ

02-24-2014, 18:00

Snow Peak LiteMax Ti:
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/snow-peak-litemax-titanium-stove~p~6735j/

Olicamp XTS:
www.amazon.com/Olicamp-Hard-Anodized-XTS-1-Litre/dp/B007OJKI2U

lonehiker

02-24-2014, 18:13

The price of the alcohol stove decided it for me.... But if I'm going to lose out on quality then I might change my mind.

I'm mostly planning to become a weekend warrior and then see how the wind blows next winter. If I really want to thru-hike next year or the year after or what. (I want to do it before I'm married and settled down with 13 kids or something.) Is an alcohol stove the best choice for weekend hikes? And a canister for a thru-hike?

What quality would you be losing out on? Faster cook times with canister stoves? Unless you are cooking and packing up to hike after your evening meal, does it matter if you cook a bit slower? An alcohol stove will suit you fine for weekend or thru-hike. A canister stove will suit you fine for weekend or thru-hike. I'm not sure what this hysteria is all about in regards to safety with alcohol stoves. Any fire source has potential issues. Just take due caution. For instance, do you ever light a candle in your domicile? Don't you take due care while it is lit so as to not burn your place down? Treat any stove the same and there won't be an issue.

Odd Man Out

02-24-2014, 18:20

Snow Peak LiteMax Ti:
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/snow-peak-litemax-titanium-stove~p~6735j/

Olicamp XTS:
www.amazon.com/Olicamp-Hard-Anodized-XTS-1-Litre/dp/B007OJKI2U (http://www.amazon.com/Olicamp-Hard-Anodized-XTS-1-Litre/dp/B007OJKI2U)

I use this Olicamp pot with my Starlyte Alcohol Stove. If I ever plan a hike where canister stoves may be a better fit than alcohol, I can pick that up later. Nice versatility.

Starchild

02-24-2014, 18:35

Faster cook times with canister stoves? Unless you are cooking and packing up to hike after your evening meal, does it matter if you cook a bit slower?

Ass a thru user of esbit and jetboil I can attest that cook time does make a difference. You have only so much time in the day and typically specific distances to traverse. So if you cover the same distance and cook the same meal the cook time comes out of your sleep time and less is more.

lonehiker

02-24-2014, 18:46

Ass a thru user of esbit and jetboil I can attest that cook time does make a difference. You have only so much time in the day and typically specific distances to traverse. So if you cover the same distance and cook the same meal the cook time comes out of your sleep time and less is more.

I doubt seriously that sierra will be hiking that kind of mileage (nor do the vast majority of thru-hikers or hikers in general) that a couple of minutes of cook time in the evening will seriously disrupt the amount of sleep she gets.

Sierra2015

02-24-2014, 18:47

You can pick up a SnowPeaks LiteMax Ti for about $30 with coupon at Sierra Trading Post. Add an Olicamp XTS pot and you're at the lighter end of the JetBoil spectrum for half the price.
Thanks for that! :)

In better weather an alky will be fine and weekend hikes will give you time to learn how to use it. Practice a few times even before the weekend hikes though. Make some coffee, ramen, whatever. Some people have better luck or maybe are just better than me at getting them to work well in the wind. To me they're just a bit fussy and slow when I most want hot water fast./QUOTE] It's a whole lot of options! I think I'll start cheap and work from there.
[QUOTE=4eyedbuzzard;1853296]13 kids huh? You trying to scare off potential suitors? Aww Buzzy, don't worry about my suitors. I'm hitting the age where I'm dating guys in their late 20's and early 30's. Gone are the days where kid talk scares them off. :p (For the record I don't want that many! Haha. And even if I did... I'd have to start tomorrow and pop out one a year. Kinda impossible!)

Sierra2015

02-24-2014, 18:48

I doubt seriously that sierra will be hiking that kind of mileage (nor do the vast majority of thru-hikers or hikers in general) that a couple of minutes of cook time in the evening will seriously disrupt the amount of sleep she gets.
And I wouldn't push my dog that hard either. O.o

MuddyWaters

02-24-2014, 19:30

Wow that was a very bigoted response. You do realize there are tens of thousands of boy scout leaders in this country, and they all volunteer their time to help work with kids. In my troop alone we have leaders that are corporate executives, active duty military, and PHDs that work for NASA.

I guess I don't really know how to respond to someone that judges a whole group of people based on the actions a few.

As a former scout leader myself, I would say that ones career or education does not make one a expert at outdoor skills. Many leaders have little experience, and little knowledge, sometimes little common sense. We frequently had people that insisted on a propane heater in their tent in sub-freezing weather, despite CO issues, and boyscout rules. I chastized one for being so stupid as to trust the built-in CO and tip-over alarms, from China, cheap, untested, unproven, un-inspected. He was an MD. go figure.

But anyone, anyone should be capable of clearing a 2' area in the dirt of leaves and grass to cook , so that spillage isnt an issue. Some other problems with alcohol, but spillage risk shouldnt be a serious one.

Wolf - 23000

02-24-2014, 19:31

I have used an alcohol stove sense 1993 and 15,000 miles. I have never had any of the problems descripted. What I see is many of the modified alcohol from the original, are not as sturdy or as efficient.

It is a flame that does burn. You have to treat it as such other wise you are going to get burn!

Wolf

bfayer

02-24-2014, 19:44

As a former scout leader myself, I would say that ones career or education does not make one a expert at outdoor skills. Many leaders have little experience, and little knowledge, sometimes little common sense. We frequently had people that insisted on a propane heater in their tent in sub-freezing weather, despite CO issues, and boyscout rules. I chastized one for being so stupid as to trust the built-in CO and tip-over alarms, from China, cheap, untested, unproven, un-inspected. He was an MD. go figure.

But anyone, anyone should be capable of clearing a 2' area in the dirt of leaves and grass to cook , so that spillage isnt an issue. Some other problems with alcohol, but spillage risk shouldnt be a serious one.

She did not address "outdoor skills" in her comment, she addressed "sense", and she included you (as a scout leader) in her comment. Do you feel you lack "sense"? Are you intrinsically connected to a couple of jerks in Utah just because you wore the same uniform.

No where in my comments did I say that "all scout leaders were experts in outdoor skills, or even had common sense.

Judging the whole of a group because of the actions of a few has a name. It doesn't matter who the group is.

MuddyWaters

02-24-2014, 21:17

She did not address "outdoor skills" in her comment, she addressed "sense", and she included you (as a scout leader) in her comment. Do you feel you lack "sense"? Are you intrinsically connected to a couple of jerks in Utah just because you wore the same uniform.

No where in my comments did I say that "all scout leaders were experts in outdoor skills, or even had common sense.

Judging the whole of a group because of the actions of a few has a name. It doesn't matter who the group is.

Since we are a cross section of the american population, as are most subgroups, including AT hikers, I take no offense. We have seen the dumbasses, and they is us.

Mags

02-24-2014, 21:24

I'm mostly planning to become a weekend warrior and then see how the wind blows next winter. If I really want to thru-hike next year or the year after or what. (I want to do it before I'm married and settled down with 13 kids or something.) Is an alcohol stove the best choice for weekend hikes? And a canister for a thru-hike?

The beauty of alcohol stoves is that the initial price is quite cheap. Do some weekend hikes. See if you like them...
If you don't, get a canister stove. At $30 for a pocket rocket or similar, canister stoves aren't too $$$ either. You can even get a Chinese knock-off now for $10.

There really is no "best" choice. Just get out there and what works for you.

re: Alcohol stoves cutting into sleeping time

Waaah? Some of the people who have done the biggest hikes with the most mileage use alchie stoves. A canister stove is more convenient in some ways..but a 5-10 minute boil vs a 2-5 minute boil does not seem to break most people's hikes.

That is about the most "interesting" statement I've heard in this thread.

Drybones

02-24-2014, 21:58

Wolf - 23000

02-24-2014, 23:12

The beauty of alcohol stoves is that the initial price is quite cheap. Do some weekend hikes. See if you like them...
If you don't, get a canister stove. At $30 for a pocket rocket or similar, canister stoves aren't too $$$ either. You can even get a Chinese knock-off now for $10.

There really is no "best" choice. Just get out there and what works for you.

re: Alcohol stoves cutting into sleeping time

Waaah? Some of the people who have done the biggest hikes with the most mileage use alchie stoves. A canister stove is more convenient in some ways..but a 5-10 minute boil vs a 2-5 minute boil does not seem to break most people's hikes.

That is about the most "interesting" statement I've heard in this thread.

Mag,

Why are you so determine to have people spend more money than they have to? Do you have stock in some of these companies or something?

An alcohol stove cost about $1.00 if that and about 5 - 10 minutes to make. Throw another $1.00 for fuel and you have a alcohol stove that can boil water in 4 minutes for less then $2.00. Seriously, no wonder you carry so much! :) Just kidding but there is no reason to spend $20+ for an alcohol stove.

Wolf

bfayer

02-24-2014, 23:14

I got hooked on the zenstoves web site and made a lot of the stoves they show, learned I didn't want a pressurized stove after I blew one up in the basement, never saw the advantage anyway, the standard cat type stove boils water as fast.

I have a few home made alcohol stoves, and for the most part they all work about the same. I agree keeping it simple is the best approach. The cat stove is the definition of simple.

If I were to buy an alcohol stove though, it would be Zelph's starlyte.

Tuckahoe

02-24-2014, 23:29

Mag,

Why are you so determine to have people spend more money than they have to? Do you have stock in some of these companies or something?

An alcohol stove cost about $1.00 if that and about 5 - 10 minutes to make. Throw another $1.00 for fuel and you have a alcohol stove that can boil water in 4 minutes for less then $2.00. Seriously, no wonder you carry so much! :) Just kidding but there is no reason to spend $20+ for an alcohol stove.

Wolf

Not everyone has the skill, time or even the desire to turn out a stove for themselves. Then only the big companies like Esbit or Vargo are reatailing a stove for $20. Otherwise what cottage shops are getting $20 for is a complete cook set.

Mags

02-24-2014, 23:37

Mag,

Why are you so determine to have people spend more money than they have to? Do you have stock in some of these companies or something?

An alcohol stove cost about $1.00 if that and about 5 - 10 minutes to make. Throw another $1.00 for fuel and you have a alcohol stove that can boil water in 4 minutes for less then $2.00. Seriously, no wonder you carry so much! :) Just kidding but there is no reason to spend $20+ for an alcohol stove.

Wolf

??????????

did you not read the part about how stoves are cheap to make? And when did I ever post my gear list? Finally, me advocating expensive gear is surely a jest?

HooKooDooKu

02-25-2014, 02:27

What type of stove do you guys recommend for me? I was going to buy a $20 alcohol stove. (I don't want to eat out of a cat food tin.)

A few things you consider when selecting a pot/stove:

1. One of the benefits of an alcohol stove is that it is a lighter weight system. But alcohol, as a fuel, contains less "heat" per ounce than the fuel mixture used in canister stoves. So at some point (perhaps around 5 to 7 days) the weight savings of an alcohol stove setup is negated by the need for more fuel.

2. A jetboil stove is a more stable system then many other canister stoves because the pot connects to the burner. By contrast, stoves like the MSR Pocket Rocket get knocks for being very unstable. I can vouch for the instability because I purchased a Pocket Rocket as a cheap introduction to canister stoves and hated the instability.

3. A jetboil stove is basically either on or off... it's not really a good system to try to simmer with (then again, neither is an alcohol stove). A jetboil basically does one thing, it boils water, and does so very well and very efficiently.

3. IMHO, if you don't get a jetboil but still want a canister stove, the SnowPeak MaxLite is the way to go. I don't know WHY, but is seems more stable than the Pocket Rocket, and it folds down wickedly small. If you get a pot the canister can fit into, you can place the folded up LiteMax under the canister utilizing some of that otherwise dead space caused by the concave bottom surface of the canister.

4. Most canister stoves do not work well as the temperature gets and below freezing. So in cold weather, a white gas stove is typically better.

5. While the Jetboil is pretty much on or off, most other canister stoves (Pocket Rocket, LiteMax) can be adjusted down to a simmer.

6. You have to be careful using any sort of wind screen with a canister stove because of the canister becomes too hot, the canister can explode. One of the benefits of a Jetboil is that the fins under the pot not only transmit the heat more efficiently, it also acts a bit like a wind screen.

IMHO, I would agree with the notion of trying to get the LiteMax stove with the Oilcamp XTS pot (careful, Oilcamp makes a pot without the heat transfer fins and another with the heat transfer fins... the XTS is the one with the fins).

Sierra2015

02-25-2014, 03:45

A few things you consider when selecting a pot/stove:

1. One of the benefits of an alcohol stove is that it is a lighter weight system. But alcohol, as a fuel, contains less "heat" per ounce than the fuel mixture used in canister stoves. So at some point (perhaps around 5 to 7 days) the weight savings of an alcohol stove setup is negated by the need for more fuel.

2. A jetboil stove is a more stable system then many other canister stoves because the pot connects to the burner. By contrast, stoves like the MSR Pocket Rocket get knocks for being very unstable. I can vouch for the instability because I purchased a Pocket Rocket as a cheap introduction to canister stoves and hated the instability.

3. A jetboil stove is basically either on or off... it's not really a good system to try to simmer with (then again, neither is an alcohol stove). A jetboil basically does one thing, it boils water, and does so very well and very efficiently.

3. IMHO, if you don't get a jetboil but still want a canister stove, the SnowPeak MaxLite is the way to go. I don't know WHY, but is seems more stable than the Pocket Rocket, and it folds down wickedly small. If you get a pot the canister can fit into, you can place the folded up LiteMax under the canister utilizing some of that otherwise dead space caused by the concave bottom surface of the canister.

4. Most canister stoves do not work well as the temperature gets and below freezing. So in cold weather, a white gas stove is typically better.

5. While the Jetboil is pretty much on or off, most other canister stoves (Pocket Rocket, LiteMax) can be adjusted down to a simmer.

6. You have to be careful using any sort of wind screen with a canister stove because of the canister becomes too hot, the canister can explode. One of the benefits of a Jetboil is that the fins under the pot not only transmit the heat more efficiently, it also acts a bit like a wind screen.

IMHO, I would agree with the notion of trying to get the LiteMax stove with the Oilcamp XTS pot (careful, Oilcamp makes a pot without the heat transfer fins and another with the heat transfer fins... the XTS is the one with the fins).
That's perfect. Love this guideline.

What I'm going to do for now is use an alcohol stove made by the very generous Foresight (super professional looking alcohol stoves, btw.) Then as my thru-hike approaches I'll consider investing more money into more complicated stoves. And especially invest money if I'm going to be taking long hiking trips.

That guideline is really just perfect. Should be on the front page. I wish every gear decision was so clearly worked out.

vamelungeon

02-25-2014, 07:05

I'm very happy with my Trangia set. It seems that a lot of people think "alcohol stove" has to mean one made from pop cans or cat food cans.

Drybones

02-25-2014, 09:34

That's perfect. Love this guideline.

What I'm going to do for now is use an alcohol stove made by the very generous Foresight (super professional looking alcohol stoves, btw.) Then as my thru-hike approaches I'll consider investing more money into more complicated stoves. And especially invest money if I'm going to be taking long hiking trips.

That guideline is really just perfect. Should be on the front page. I wish every gear decision was so clearly worked out.

IMO that's going the wrong direction. Simple = reliability, complicated = what the %@*^% just happened to my stove.

Sarcasm the elf

02-25-2014, 09:45

IMO that's going the wrong direction. Simple = reliability, complicated = what the %@*^% just happened to my stove.

At the end of a day when exhausted from having just hiked for 10 hours, screwing a canister onto a jetboil, turning a valve and pressing the ignite button sounds a lot less complicated than playing with flammable liquids.:-?

bamboo bob

02-25-2014, 09:53

Folks. Stoves is a religion. Try not to convert others. The religion of Stoves, Hammocks, Quits. Trying to be ecumenical here. What am I missing?Shoes?

And the all powerful Pack Weight - King of the Gods.

Tuckahoe

02-25-2014, 10:02

Drybones

02-25-2014, 10:04

At the end of a day when exhausted from having just hiked for 10 hours, screwing a canister onto a jetboil, turning a valve and pressing the ignite button sounds a lot less complicated than playing with flammable liquids.:-?

You see far more alcohol stoves on the trail than anything else....there's a reason. If I couldn't manage to use a simple stove I'm not capable of surviving a hike.

Sierra2015

02-25-2014, 10:33

IMO that's going the wrong direction. Simple = reliability, complicated = what the %@*^% just happened to my stove.
Sigh. What about if I had said "complicated scientifically"? Hmm? :p

kayak karl

02-25-2014, 10:34

"Stoves don't burn people. People burn people"
using a stove 1000 times doesn't make you fire retardant. just be careful when using fire. don't leave it unattended.

SunnyWalker

02-25-2014, 14:11

Sierra: Check out the Caldera Cone. One may go with different heat sources with it. I personally use an alcohol stove. But it's one of other options. The system is very efficient.

Odd Man Out

02-25-2014, 14:48

Sierra2015

02-25-2014, 14:53

Tuckahoe

02-25-2014, 15:12

Well ya just don't want to end up burning that pot of water.

bfayer

02-25-2014, 15:43

It's just boiling water? I've been cooking for a decade. I think I can handle hot water. ;)

It's more about knowing how much alcohol you need for a given pot of water, the best way to prime the stove, the best way to set up the wind screen, that type of stuff. It's not rocket science that's for sure, but it does take a little bit of playing around with your cook kit to figure out what works best for you. Every stove and cook kit is different.

MDSection12

02-25-2014, 16:05

Ass a thru user of esbit and jetboil I can attest that cook time does make a difference. You have only so much time in the day and typically specific distances to traverse. So if you cover the same distance and cook the same meal the cook time comes out of your sleep time and less is more.
What? It's passive time, so that's just not true. When I'm really beat and just want to eat and sack out I'll light the stove then set up my hammock and tarp while it boils. I get done with my shelter and water's ready to go. No lost time at all.

Drybones

02-25-2014, 16:08

It's just boiling water? I've been cooking for a decade. I think I can handle hot water. ;)

Atta girl Sierra...give it right back to these old bone heads.

Wolf - 23000

02-25-2014, 17:57

Not everyone has the skill, time or even the desire to turn out a stove for themselves. Then only the big companies like Esbit or Vargo are reatailing a stove for $20. Otherwise what cottage shops are getting $20 for is a complete cook set.

Tuckahoe64,

How much skill do you need to cut a couple of holes in a can? That is all you need to do to make a stove. It takes about 5 - 10 minutes.

Spending $20 bucks does not make sense at all.

Wolf

Foresight

02-25-2014, 18:14

Very true.

HooKooDooKu

02-25-2014, 18:18

Regardless of the stove -- or even stoves -- that you choose to use the single most important thing to do is learn how to actually use them and to cook with them well before you hit the trail. Its all about practicing with the stove first.

It's just boiling water? I've been cooking for a decade. I think I can handle hot water.
Even if you're just boiling water... as bfayer is trying to point out, you've got to learn how to use the equipment.

How you setup and operate an MSR Shaker Jet White Gas stove is very different from how you operate a LiteMax canister stove is very different from how you operate an alcohol stove. Even within alcohol stove... there's different styles of alcohol stoves, each with it's unique characteristics and steps required to operate.

Drybones

02-25-2014, 18:40

Even if you're just boiling water... as bfayer is trying to point out, you've got to learn how to use the equipment.

How you setup and operate an MSR Shaker Jet White Gas stove is very different from how you operate a LiteMax canister stove is very different from how you operate an alcohol stove. Even within alcohol stove... there's different styles of alcohol stoves, each with it's unique characteristics and steps required to operate.

My stove is pretty simple, I put an ounce of fuel in it and light it, then put my pot on it with water in it...do thank one poster who taught me to dip a twig in the alcohol and to light with it instead of trying to directly use a lighter....that guy was brilliant....and I'm still thinking I was a dumba** for not having thought of that on my own.

bobp

02-25-2014, 18:40

Spending $20 on a Vargo makes sense if you are a Scout leader on a BSA trip, where the rules now forbid homemade stoves. I don't have the exact wording in front of me, but the Vargo goes on Scout trips, and one of Zelph's finest goes on trips that aren't exercises in herding cats. And the SVEA goes on trips where I'll need a lot of hot water fast (emergency pregnancy, hot chocolate for 12... Stuff like that).

Drybones

02-25-2014, 18:42

Tuckahoe64,

How much skill do you need to cut a couple of holes in a can? That is all you need to do to make a stove. It takes about 5 - 10 minutes.

Spending $20 bucks does not make sense at all.

Wolf

Agree, $.53 for a can of cat food at Walmart and a paper punch and you have a stove in 5 minutes, or do as I do and use the wife's empty hair spray cans to make a stove.

lonehiker

02-25-2014, 18:43

My stove is pretty simple, I put an ounce of fuel in it and light it, then put my pot on it with water in it...do thank one poster who taught me to dip a twig in the alcohol and to light with it instead of trying to directly use a lighter....that guy was brilliant....and I'm still thinking I was a dumba** for not having thought of that on my own.

A tiny flint and steel works great as well.

4eyedbuzzard

02-25-2014, 19:22

It's just boiling water? I've been cooking for a decade. I think I can handle hot water. ;)Practice "just boiling water" with an alcohol stove in a gusty 20 mph+ wind.

treefarmer

02-25-2014, 19:24

I use esbit. It stinks but its easy to carry and it always lights even when wet.

Wolf - 23000

02-25-2014, 19:46

Agree, $.53 for a can of cat food at Walmart and a paper punch and you have a stove in 5 minutes, or do as I do and use the wife's empty hair spray cans to make a stove.

Drybones,

A cat food can has to small of a mouth. I would suggest spending .79 cents for a small can of pine-apple can instead. To much of the fuel remains below the flame so it takes longer for it to boil water. You carry a few grams more in stove weight but it make it up in the amount needing less fuel to boil water.

Wolf

Teacher & Snacktime

02-25-2014, 19:51

And the SVEA goes on trips where I'll need a lot of hot water fast (emergency pregnancy, hot chocolate for 12... Stuff like that).

I'm not making fun, honest....but "emergency pregnancy" cracks me up! (I know what you mean though)

I use esbit. It stinks but its easy to carry and it always lights even when wet.

I used to use this too, and now carry it as a backup in case my canister stove doesn't work.

Drybones

02-25-2014, 20:26

Drybones,

A cat food can has to small of a mouth. I would suggest spending .79 cents for a small can of pine-apple can instead. To much of the fuel remains below the flame so it takes longer for it to boil water. You carry a few grams more in stove weight but it make it up in the amount needing less fuel to boil water.

Wolf

The 5 oz size cat food makes a pretty good size stove but I agree with what you're saying, the larger the diameter the faster you can heat, and the lower the fuel level the faster you can heat. The only time I use the cat stove is frying up bacon and eggs using the Jetboil fry pan, and it's made with fewer holes to cook slower, I use a Foster beer can for a pot and must have a certain diameter stove to fit snugly in the concave, or is it convex, whatever, in the bottom and use a hair spray can.

HooKooDooKu

02-25-2014, 21:47

RockDoc

02-25-2014, 21:53

In my experience the biggest risk of alcohol stoves is that your dinner will stay cold.
Yes I tried the cat, pop can, Vargo, and others. Way too much screwing around with worthless pieces of crap that either won't run or explode in your face.

Canister stoves, worth their weight in gold.

4eyedbuzzard

02-25-2014, 21:53

Sort of proves my point... every stove needs instructions.

Wind screen (i.e. more instructions, stuff to learn).Yeah, even with a windscreen, in windy conditions alky stoves aren't all that.

Sierra2015

02-25-2014, 21:55

Alcohol won't explode. Nothing pressurized.

To all you boys: I'll make sure to practice. :p

bfayer

02-25-2014, 22:01

Alcohol won't explode. Nothing pressurized...

Some alcohol stoves are.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

bfayer

02-25-2014, 22:02

Sorry. Double tap.

bfayer

02-25-2014, 22:03

I meant to say some are pressurized.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

Sierra2015

02-25-2014, 22:07

Is that right? I've just seen the car-tin ones.

(And you need the edit button as much as I do! I think I'll donate just so I can wean myself off double posting.)

Drybones

02-25-2014, 22:09

I meant to say some are pressurized.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

I don't understand why anyone would use a pressurized stove, they require a stand, have to be primed, and I did blow one up ( a minor thing, no fire trucks), and they don't heat any faster than a simple stove.

bfayer

02-25-2014, 22:15

I don't understand why anyone would use a pressurized stove, they require a stand, have to be primed, and I did blow one up ( a minor thing, no fire trucks), and they don't heat any faster than a simple stove.

I don't know, some folks still use them though. I was just letting her know they were out there.

I stopped using mine because I kept misplacing my penny :)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

HooKooDooKu

02-25-2014, 22:18

I don't understand why anyone would use a pressurized stove, they require a stand, have to be primed, and I did blow one up ( a minor thing, no fire trucks), and they don't heat any faster than a simple stove.
From what I understand, the pressurized versions of alcohol stoves are not supposed to heat any faster, they are supposed to be more fuel efficient.

Tuckahoe

02-26-2014, 08:18

Tuckahoe64,

How much skill do you need to cut a couple of holes in a can? That is all you need to do to make a stove. It takes about 5 - 10 minutes.

Spending $20 bucks does not make sense at all.

Wolf

Spending $20 on a Vargo makes sense if you are a Scout leader on a BSA trip, where the rules now forbid homemade stoves. I don't have the exact wording in front of me, but the Vargo goes on Scout trips, and one of Zelph's finest goes on trips that aren't exercises in herding cats. And the SVEA goes on trips where I'll need a lot of hot water fast (emergency pregnancy, hot chocolate for 12... Stuff like that).

Wolf you and I both know that there is not a lot of skill. I made my first soda can stove out of a Diet Coke can and a Camillus pocket knife; I even used the awl to punch the stove jets. But that's you and me, and it does not change the fact that there are any number of legitimate reason someone will choose to buy from someone else rafher than attempting to make their own. I recently chose to buy a windscreen, simply because it cost me only a quarter of what it would have cost me to make it.

Never mind that Seirra mentioned a $20 stove, a quick seach of Ebay actually shows the great majority of stoves are $3-$8. Those $20 stoves are the Vargo, Trangia, and Esbit stoves, and as Bobp pointed out for some folks that is the only allowable choice.

Sierra2015

02-26-2014, 08:34

Never mind that Seirra mentioned a $20 stove, a quick seach of Ebay actually shows the great majority of stoves are $3-$8. Those $20 stoves are the Vargo, Trangia, and Esbit stoves, and as Bobp pointed out for some folks that is the only allowable choice.
I can make an alcohol stove. I'm actually pretty handy. This girl can change your oil, put brakes on your car, lay floor, and plaster a wall. I choose not to make my own stove because I don't like untidy, trashy looking things like a sawed off coke can with holes punched into it. ;)

(You've caught me in an aggressive mood! Haha)

Sierra2015

02-26-2014, 08:45

Ah... I wish I could edit.

I know now you guys are just trying to help. All this skill talk and money talk is bringing out my obvious insecurities. :p

Drybones

02-26-2014, 08:51

I can make an alcohol stove. I'm actually pretty handy. This girl can change your oil, put brakes on your car, lay floor, and plaster a wall. I choose not to make my own stove because I don't like untidy, trashy looking things like a sawed off coke can with holes punched into it. ;)

(You've caught me in an aggressive mood! Haha)

Will you marry me?

Drybones

02-26-2014, 08:52

Ah... I wish I could edit.

I know now you guys are just trying to help. All this skill talk and money talk is bringing out my obvious insecurities. :p

You don't need to edit, you're doing just fine.

Sierra2015

02-26-2014, 09:04

Will you marry me?
I heard a joke the other day. My boss was talking to a extremely rich 65-year-old man. Talking billionaire. And besides him sat his beautiful young wife. She's a dime. Near perfect.

My boss asked the old rich guy how he managed to snag such a girl.

The billionaire replied, "I lied about my age.... Told her I was 95."

You don't need to edit, you're doing just fine.
Daw! Now tell me that every day of your life.

bfayer

02-26-2014, 11:13

I can't remember if I said it before and I'm too lazy to go back and look, but whatever alcohol stove you get, make sure it matches your cooking pot. some stoves put out a wider flame spread than others and if you have a pot that is too small a diameter, the flames end up going around the side of the pot.

Also, I have played with the titanium alcohol stoves and found they are hard to get lit in cold weather, and they take forever to prime (at least for me). Although aluminum is not as strong, I think it makes a better alcohol stove.

As for looks that's up to you. I have a white box stove and although it looks better, it cooks the same as the one I made myself.

I still think canister stoves are generally safer than alcohol stoves, but, In the end it's just a stove, whatever you get will work fine.

Mags

02-26-2014, 12:50

In the end it's just a stove, whatever you get will work fine.

This!!! That and get out and use it before your thru-hike. Do some weekend backpacks and (ideally) a week+ long hike if possible. See if the gear you want to use works outside of internet discussion for your hiking style. :)

jbwood5

02-26-2014, 13:14

The biggest risk I saw with these stoves came from arriving backpackers when I was heating water, especially tired hikers who were not paying attention. I had to constantly remind every new arrival that I was cooking with an alky stove because with the windscreen around it, I guess it just looked like a tall pan. Ideally, I should have been far away from any area where people congregate, but in the pouring rain, you like to use the overhangs around shelters. It did rain a lot last year.

I used to use butane with the mini canisters (until the canisters were nearly impossible to buy), but they always had the problem of not heating when it got down to the 30's. My alky stove with a good windscreen performs fairly well in cold temps and I don't have to put up with all the BS of travelling with hazzardous fuel when taking public transportation.

Wolf - 23000

02-26-2014, 15:23

Wolf you and I both know that there is not a lot of skill. I made my first soda can stove out of a Diet Coke can and a Camillus pocket knife; I even used the awl to punch the stove jets. But that's you and me, and it does not change the fact that there are any number of legitimate reason someone will choose to buy from someone else rafher than attempting to make their own. I recently chose to buy a windscreen, simply because it cost me only a quarter of what it would have cost me to make it.

Never mind that Seirra mentioned a $20 stove, a quick seach of Ebay actually shows the great majority of stoves are $3-$8. Those $20 stoves are the Vargo, Trangia, and Esbit stoves, and as Bobp pointed out for some folks that is the only allowable choice.

Tuckahoe64,

If something cost a quarter for a windscreen, ok I can see that maybe but you are not talking about a quarter for a stove. You are talking spending about $20 for something that someone could make themselves with little effort. Even your stoves that are on Ebay if you through in the shipping cost and everything your still talking about spending more than what is needed. I can afford $20 too, but I rather use my money wisely and keep my total gear weight down without breaking the bank.

I made my first one back in 1993 while doing the PCT before the Internet was popular. I did it in a small town called Warner Springs, CA and have used it ever sense on most of my hiking trips. Every so often I end up having to build a new one because I either miss placed it, gave it away or it just plain wore out. If it happens I spend another 5 - 10 minutes and build myself a new one.

Wolf

Drybones

02-26-2014, 17:28

I can afford to buy a stove but it's fun making them, good knowledge to have if you're in the middle of no where and lost your's, you can take a pocket knife and a pop can and make one in a few minutes to get by on.

26116

Another Kevin

02-26-2014, 18:15

Since I often like a wash at the end of the day, a silnylon bucket is one of my luxury items.

That means that it's not a big issue having a half-bucket of water (that I'll bathe in afterwards) next to my stove. (I often fetch another half-bucket in the morning, some of which will be used to fill my water bladder once I'm done making my morning coffee.)

Which, to my mind, greatly increases the safety of alcohol. Water extinguishes it, and I'm almost always cooking with some quantity of water at hand.

If I hiked where Mags hikes, I'd switch to another system. But here in the East, a water shortage is seldom a problem. We more often have an excess of water.