Cat Hole Shovels

[Crestview_hiker]

Greetings,

Planing to do a thru-hike this year going NOBO. This is my first thru-hike. Much research as been done and I have reviewed many gear list. Seems like 99% of the time the list do not include a cat hole shovel. I am wondering why it is that I don't see it listen in list or videos. Makes me think that there may be a lot of crap, literately out there.

So while I am putting my gear together, should it really be in my gear list?
Alvin

[Mac Solo]

Im taking one. I read a few things about it being essential on certain parts of the trail.

[Misery]

Cat Hole shovels are great, but on the other hand so are rocks and sticks, and even your poles. Very rarely is the ground ever that hard that you cant dig a proper hole with a rock. Every single person I met on trail did this. The people who started with one always sent it home.
That being said there really is a lot of people who just crap anywhere. Especially in Georgia.

[Crestview_hiker]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I think I may use a rock as well, heck why carry something that I may be possibly sending home.
Thanks again for the info.

Happy Trails
Alvin

[Foresight]

"Especially in Georgia".

You see that a LOT with negative connotations. History says 1 in 8 NOBO's finish....well, GA sees 8 in 8 NOBO's. Keep that in mind. It's not GA's fault.

[Sarcasm the elf]

My hiking pole has always worked well for this purpose.

[Ken.davidson]

I use a tent peg, it has a dual use and works better than the shovel I had. Thanks to Winton Porter @ Mountain Crossing outfitters.

[cutter]

Agreed. A shovel is unnecessary weight.

[rafe]

I've seen almost no serious hikers carrying cat-hole shovels. Occasionally seen being carried by newbs, weekenders, and youngsters in organized outings. Now maybe the catholes I've dug haven't all been to regulation depth, but hiking poles generally suffice for the digging that needs to be done, and if not poles, then a stick.

[Deacon]

I was unwilling to carry the 2 oz plastic shovel and tried using my hiking pole. It just doesn't dig deep enough.

Then I found the Big Dig on Qiwiz's site. He makes a sharp edged titanium shovel that weighs 0.4 oz. Great!

[Deacon]

I decided to carry a shovel out of courtesy to those hikers who tread where I crap.

[atbackpacker]

I decided to carry a shovel out of courtesy to those hikers who tread where I crap.
thank you for that.
while walking toward outerbridge shelter last summer, someone had placed a BIG one on top of a rock just next to the spring. how disgusting!
it would be nice if people had a little more respect for the outdoors and others who hike there.

[Coffee]

I carry a REI snow stake for digging regulation depth holes. It weighs one ounce. It is sometimes possible to use sticks or rocks but if the soil is rocky or particularly hard, the snow stake is well worth having unless I know in advance that the soil is soft where I plan to hike.

[Drybones]

Invest in a pair of shoes with a sturdy heel.

[Schnitzel]

I'm carrying a titanium scoopy thing.

I have bad joints in my hands, and a trowel is easier for me than using a stick or pole to peck out a 6-8 inch deep hole. That being said, if I could use a stick, I would. Knowing that I personally am doing the best I can to minimize my own impact is worth carrying an extra 3 ounces.

Now that I've made my proud announcement, of course, by the time I get to Mountain Crossings, I'll probably suck it up, use a stick, and send the trowel home. You all have permission to snicker at me when I do so!:)

[Drybones]

I'm carrying a titanium scoopy thing.

I have bad joints in my hands, and a trowel is easier for me than using a stick or pole to peck out a 6-8 inch deep hole. That being said, if I could use a stick, I would. Knowing that I personally am doing the best I can to minimize my own impact is worth carrying an extra 3 ounces.

Now that I've made my proud announcement, of course, by the time I get to Mountain Crossings, I'll probably suck it up, use a stick, and send the trowel home. You all have permission to snicker at me when I do so!:)

You can buy a plastic one that weighs 2 oz and cost only a couple of bucks....you could then throw it away at Mountain Crossings and save the shipping cost of sending it back home....have a good hike.

[Schnitzel]

You can buy a plastic one that weighs 2 oz and cost only a couple of bucks....you could then throw it away at Mountain Crossings and save the shipping cost of sending it back home....have a good hike.

Eh - I already have the titanium thing - it was a gift, so I kinda have to at least give it a fair go. Besides, I'm assuming that I'll be sending home more stuff than just a scoop. I'm a realist.

Thank you for the good wishes!

[Coffee]

Invest in a pair of shoes with a sturdy heel.

I've never understood how anyone can dig a cat hole with the heel of a shoe or boot or what the big deal is with carrying one ounce in order to dig a cat hole.

[HooKooDooKu]

I was unwilling to carry the 2 oz plastic shovel and tried using my hiking pole. It just doesn't dig deep enough.

Then I found the Big Dig on Qiwiz's site. He makes a sharp edged titanium shovel that weighs 0.4 oz. Great!

Based on personal experience, a plastic shovel is a waste... If the ground is soft enough for the plastic shovel to work, then the many other options listed above (such as tent stake) will do just as well. But if the ground is hard enough (or packed with enough roots) that you NEED a shovel, the plastic shovel isn't going to cut it.

[slbirdnerd]

The ground off-trail in the forest is very soft, assuming it isn't frozen, and you can dig a hole with the heel of your shoe/boot. Poop in a hole, cover it up, leave no trace!!!

[Lone Wolf]

I've never understood how anyone can dig a cat hole with the heel of a shoe or boot

it's pretty easy

[lonehiker]

Most AT hikers don't know how to properly bury their waste, hence the problem. Actually the best thing you can do on the AT is to use the privies as much as reasonably possible.

[Lone Wolf]

Most AT hikers don't know how to properly bury their waste, hence the problem. Actually the best thing you can do on the AT is to use the privies as much as reasonably possible.
privies are incredibly foul

[LAF]

not done the whole AT (yet), but there are places I've been the ground is pretty tough (roots, rocks and such) having something along to facilitate digging that hole quick is nice to have and at less than an oz, something I'm willing to carry. course, you could always do like they do on some big mountains, crap in a bag and carry it out :) I know,I know, works better when it's freezing out, wouldn't wanna do that in warm weather

[lonehiker]

privies are incredibly foul

Agreed, but much better to concentrate that foulness as opposed to having feces piles (and TP) everywhere.

[Lone Wolf]

shelters and privies go hand in hand in promoting this norovirus thing. maybe the ATC should provide brochures on how to properly bury poo

[rafe]

privies are incredibly foul

Yes they certainly can smell that way, but it's the liquid waste more than the solid stuff that makes 'em that way. So pee in the woods, far away from camp and water sources, and leave the privies for serious business. Properly composted, a privy ain't that bad.

At the AMC Goose Pond camp there's a two-pot privy marked #1 and #2. A small sign explains which is which, and ends with, "If you don't understand the difference, please do your business elsewhere."

[Chair-man]

I've never understood how anyone can dig a cat hole with the heel of a shoe or boot or what the big deal is with carrying one ounce in order to dig a cat hole.

I agree. I just weighed my plastic trowel 1.8 oz. If you're really practicing "Leave No Trace (http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/TeachingLeaveNoTrace/053c_dispose.aspx)" you need to have a 6" to 8" hole.

[QiWiz]

I was unwilling to carry the 2 oz plastic shovel and tried using my hiking pole. It just doesn't dig deep enough.

Then I found the Big Dig on Qiwiz's site. He makes a sharp edged titanium shovel that weighs 0.4 oz. Great!


Thanks for the positive comment. We all have to decide how we want to do things, including the very mundane but important task of our waste disposal.

If you want to actually dig a hole, it's much easier with the right tool. The "hole diggers" that use boot heels, sticks, hiking poles, tent pegs, and rocks to dig their holes either take a long time in many soils to get a good hole dug or really just put their business in a shallow depression they have scraped out. To those who disagree, I say be honest with yourself; if you wanted to teach someone about human waste disposal, would you show them one of your catholes? Just sayin' . . .

Sectionhiker did a nice review and video that shows what the right tool can do with a tiny increase in pack weight:

http://sectionhiker.com/qiwiz-big-dig-ultralight-titanium-trowel/

Can you dig it?

[Coffee]

QiWiz, are the edges on the trowel sharp enough to require protection when packed? The 0.4 ounce weight is tempting but I'm guessing that I'd have to make up an improvised sheath to put it in prior to placing in my pack. Still, would be lighter than my 1 ounce snow stake and probably much more effective!

[jbwood5]

Thanks for the positive comment. We all have to decide how we want to do things, including the very mundane but important task of our waste disposal.

If you want to actually dig a hole, it's much easier with the right tool. The "hole diggers" that use boot heels, sticks, hiking poles, tent pegs, and rocks to dig their holes either take a long time in many soils to get a good hole dug or really just put their business in a shallow depression they have scraped out. To those who disagree, I say be honest with yourself; if you wanted to teach someone about human waste disposal, would you show them one of your catholes? Just sayin' . . .

Sectionhiker did a nice review and video that shows what the right tool can do with a tiny increase in pack weight:

http://sectionhiker.com/qiwiz-big-dig-ultralight-titanium-trowel/

Can you dig it?

I have had your regular titanium trowel for over a year and it works great for the amount of weight (virtually insignificant!). I need to give it a shot of orange floresent paint because it is easy to misplace (even with the yellow coating which looks like a lot of leaves in the Fall).

[Kerosene]

I make every effort to avoid crapping in the woods, but when the time is approaching I will go well off-trail and search for half-buried rocks or branches so my hold is half-dug for me. I've never encountered a situation where I needed a trowel (although it would've been easier in several cases), but I have passed over hard ground/rock where it wouldn't have been easy to dig a sufficiently deep hole, but even then a trowel might not have been sufficient.

[Seatbelt]

I agree. I just weighed my plastic trowel 1.8 oz. If you're really practicing "Leave No Trace (http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/TeachingLeaveNoTrace/053c_dispose.aspx)" you need to have a 6" to 8" hole.

Don't forget to add the 6oz tape measure you need to measure the hole just to be sure it is 8".:p

[slovakiasteph]

It takes a while to dig an 8" hole with a stick and even longer with my heel...plus, I'd like to keep my shoes around as long as possible...so trowel for me! Yup, an extra 2 oz.

[peakbagger]

Stop by any hostel north of Springer or any other spot where hikers drop off gear and you will find trowels dropped off by hikers. The plastic ones are useless unless you are digging in garden as in any sort of rocky soil they break. Either carry metal or don't carry one at all.

Unless things have changed, I don't remember a lot of privies at huts maintained by TEHC.

[HooKooDooKu]

Don't forget to add the 6oz tape measure you need to measure the hole just to be sure it is 8".:p
Those of us that are 'trowel savvy' know to put a 6" depth mark on the trowel.

[HooKooDooKu]

Stop by any hostel north of Springer or any other spot where hikers drop off gear and you will find trowels dropped off by hikers. The plastic ones are useless unless you are digging in garden as in any sort of rocky soil they break. Either carry metal or don't carry one at all.
BINGO!!!

As I stated earlier, places where you can use a plastic trowel, you don't need a plastic trowel... so I'm not surprised if tons of PLASTIC trowels are showing up in drop boxes.

So for those saying they see lots of trowels in drop boxes, how many are METAL and are NOT the huge HEAVY WEIGHT trowels. In other words, how many Sea-to-Summit Ipoods (3.5oz) (http://www.rei.com/product/758042/sea-to-summit-pocket-trowel#specsTab) or Big Dig Titanium (0.6oz) (http://www.qiwiz.net/trowels.html) trowels are you finding in drop boxes?


BTW, I'd love to hear any feedback from anyone that has used Big Dig Titanium trowel. Obviously it is light weight and plenty strong enough for loose soil. But I'm curious about how strong it is in tougher conditions. In the GSMNP where I camp, there is so much biodiversity that I frequently find I have to cut through roots to get a hole dug.

[CarlZ993]

I was unwilling to carry the 2 oz plastic shovel and tried using my hiking pole. It just doesn't dig deep enough.

Then I found the Big Dig on Qiwiz's site. He makes a sharp edged titanium shovel that weighs 0.4 oz. Great!
+1. This is what I use. Very light. The use of a stake would work, especially if it is a winter stake.

For 20 years, I carried a trowel. I've been in lots of locations where the ground was too hard for a stick or hiking pole to successfully dig a 6 - 8" cat hole.

[Coffee]

The use of a stake would work, especially if it is a winter stake.

I beg to differ. A snow stake has worked well for me in all kinds of soil including hard rocky soil.

$1.95. 1 ounce.

http://www.rei.com/product/845328/rei-snow-stake

But I'm looking at QiWiz's site now and may switch to the 0.4 ounce trowel.

[Drybones]

Don't forget to add the 6oz tape measure you need to measure the hole just to be sure it is 8".:p

You can use a dollar bill, it's 6".....then you could wipe with it, multi-functional.

[Drybones]

Most AT hikers don't know how to properly bury their waste, hence the problem. Actually the best thing you can do on the AT is to use the privies as much as reasonably possible.

So far the only place I've seen a problem was in GSMNP around some of the shelters.

[QiWiz]

QiWiz, are the edges on the trowel sharp enough to require protection when packed? The 0.4 ounce weight is tempting but I'm guessing that I'd have to make up an improvised sheath to put it in prior to placing in my pack. Still, would be lighter than my 1 ounce snow stake and probably much more effective!

The edges are thin but not sharp. I am very careful to dull them. In my pack, my TP in a ziplock gets rolled up a bit, then bundled with the trowel using a rubber band.

[Chair-man]

Don't forget to add the 6oz tape measure you need to measure the hole just to be sure it is 8".:p

Don't forget to measure up 8" on your boot and mark it so you know when your 8" deep. Don't even try digging a hole with your heel while wearing trail runners you'll might break a bone in your heel when you hit a rock and your trail runners will fall apart. :-?

[Seatbelt]

You can use a dollar bill, it's 6".....then you could wipe with it, multi-functional.
That's what I'm talkin 'bout......:)

[4eyedbuzzard]

You can use a dollar bill, it's 6".....then you could wipe with it, multi-functional.If you shape a small trowel properly and sharpen one edge it can do TRIPLE duty as a trowel, knife and spoon. How's THAT for multi-functional? Now if I can only get it to spray water too . . .

[Drybones]

If you shape a small trowel properly and sharpen one edge it can do TRIPLE duty as a trowel, knife and spoon. How's THAT for multi-functional? Now if I can only get it to spray water too . . .

I'm always open to new ideas but don't know that I'd want to cut the cheese and eat Ramain with the same tool I dug my cat hole.

[4eyedbuzzard]

It's only dirt. Just wash it off. It's not like you're supposed to leave it in the hole and poop on it or anything. Thinking about it, you could just use your spoon. Back to the lab to work on the sporelet . . .

[Drybones]

It's only dirt. Just wash it off. It's not like you're supposed to leave it in the hole and poop on it or anything. Thinking about it, you could just use your spoon. Back to the lab to work on the sporelet . . .

LOL...yeah, dirts not bad, came to think of it as a spice, after a few weeks on the trail all dropped morsels get eaten.

[MuddyWaters]

I usually dont take one.
There is not a good reason not to get one of the light ones by Qi Wiz or Suluk46 though. Only 0.4-0.5 oz.

It is easy to break up soil with a tent stake or pole, but you cant move it out of the way, you have to use hands or heels. For this reason I often have trench 6" deep and 4" wide and 10" long from my heel. Around a shelter, Im not digging in a cat field with my hands either.
In rocky hard soil, it really can be tough.
The biggest issue is when you are in a hurry, and unfortunately that is common.

In hard ground, I usually look for a medium sized rock I can move. Instant hole. then I put dirt in, mix it up, and put rock back on top.

[Lauriep]

To dig an effective cathole (3-6" wide, 6-8" deep) in the dimensions recommended by the science-based group Leave No Trace, Inc. that serves all the functions a cathole is supposed to do, i.e.,

1) minimize contamination of water sources
2) minimize the spread of disease
3) not gross out my fellow hikers
4) minimize ground disturbance

I have found I need a digging implement. My favorite approach is to carry a 1.0 oz aluminum snow stake (http://www.rei.com/product/845328/rei-snow-stake) sold at REI for $1.95 and a Qi-Wiz titanium trowel (either the 0.4 oz or 0.6 version).

In-depth information from Leave No Trace can be found at http://lnt.org/learn/principle-3 (http://www.lnt.org/learn/principle-3).

On my thru-hike I used my bootheel and sticks to dig holes because I didn't know any better. Leave No Trace hadn't even been invented back then. Yeah, it takes a little more time to dig a proper cathole now, but why wouldn't I want to do what I can to keep the A.T. corridor as pristine as as I can?

[lemon b]

Its all about placement. Plenty of digging tools put into place by nature.

[Sierra2015]

I'm so glad I've read this thread.

Super informative, people!

[Many Moons]

Wait until you have to go real bad, were you can get some force going! Find a tree with a seat and a hole. Go in the hole and throw some leaves on top. Green hiking no one steps on and tree gets fertilized. Watch your nads from bites by the coons and critters. Lots of force if hole is vertical. HIKE ON!!!

Miller

Greetings,

Planing to do a thru-hike this year going NOBO. This is my first thru-hike. Much research as been done and I have reviewed many gear list. Seems like 99% of the time the list do not include a cat hole shovel. I am wondering why it is that I don't see it listen in list or videos. Makes me think that there may be a lot of crap, literately out there.

So while I am putting my gear together, should it really be in my gear list?
Alvin

[swjohnsey]

If you want one of the orange ones you can pick one up along the trail the first week or so.

[Drybones]

I'm so glad I've read this thread.

Super informative, people!

Important as this topic is, we wouldn't want you to do it all wrong.

[Sierra2015]

Important as this topic is, we wouldn't want you to do it all wrong.
You love being all up in my ****, yo.

[CarlZ993]

I beg to differ. A snow stake has worked well for me in all kinds of soil including hard rocky soil.

$1.95. 1 ounce.

http://www.rei.com/product/845328/rei-snow-stake

But I'm looking at QiWiz's site now and may switch to the 0.4 ounce trowel.
I thought that's what I said. That a stake would work, particularly if it was a winter (snow) stake.

[Chair-man]

For those of you who are not making your cat holes deep enough you should be aware that when get to the pearly gates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearly_gates) and they do that background check on you like they do and they ask you why you didn't make your cat holes deeper and you don't have a good reason you know where they're going to send you. I'm just sayin.

[Seatbelt]

Important as this topic is, we wouldn't want you to do it all wrong.
I'll mention something equally as important--"hitting the hole" once it is dug. If you miss, you'll be glad you have a small trowel or piece of bark or something to properly "bury" it.

[Many Moons]

Now that is some great humor considering the topic of this post!! HIKE ON!!!

Miller


You love being all up in my ****, yo.

[Chair-man]

I'll mention something equally as important--"hitting the hole" once it is dug. If you miss, you'll be glad you have a small trowel or piece of bark or something to properly "bury" it.

If I miss I'd never use my trowel to bury it. I would use a stick to fill everything back in the hole. I wouldn't take a chance on messing up my trowel.

[Seatbelt]

If I miss I'd never use my trowel to bury it. I would use a stick to fill everything back in the hole. I wouldn't take a chance on messing up my trowel. It can be done without actually coming in contact with the waste.

[Chair-man]

I'm surprised that the folks who advocate using a trowel haven't been accused of setting up straw men and the problem of not making cat hole deep enough doesn't really exist.

[Coffee]

I thought that's what I said. That a stake would work, particularly if it was a winter (snow) stake.
My apologies. Clearly I misread what I was reading.

[daddytwosticks]

64 posts and nobody has mentioned using his/her long-handled titanium spoon. Works great and is dual use! :)

[4eyedbuzzard]

64 posts and nobody has mentioned using his/her long-handled titanium spoon. Works great and is dual use! :)Beat you to it on page 3 #47 :cool: :eek:
It's only dirt. Just wash it off. It's not like you're supposed to leave it in the hole and poop on it or anything. Thinking about it, you could just use your spoon. Back to the lab to work on the sporelet . . .

[HikerMom58]

64 posts and nobody has mentioned using his/her long-handled titanium spoon. Works great and is dual use! :)

Eww..... :) I like my spork! ;)

[HikerMom58]

Beat you to it on page 3 #47 :cool: :eek:


But what if the "dirt" has poo/pee in it? :p

[4eyedbuzzard]

:D
Eww..... :) I like my spork! ;)Definitely. The short tines help cut through the surface faster, and you can pick up little tidbits that miss the hole with the tines. :p :D

[4eyedbuzzard]

But what if the "dirt" has poo/pee in it? :pGoogle Food Defect Action Levels :eek:

[daddytwosticks]

Beat you to it on page 3 #47 :cool: :eek:

Yes, but my spoon is titanium! Poo germs don't have a chance. :)

[bamboo bob]

Also there's a privy almost at every shelter except the Eastman Territory. And it's not like your digging directly on the trail. Off trail in the woods the duff is about a foot thick. Really, a pole or a stick works fine.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I'm surprised that the folks who advocate using a trowel haven't been accused of setting up straw men and the problem of not making cat hole deep enough doesn't really exist.

Was that one aimed at me? ;)

I'm with you on this one. I use a hiking pole, but i do dig to the correct depth. If I was less patient then I'd bring a trowel. I've encountered enough improperly dug catholes to see the value in digging them correctly.

[Drybones]

But what if the "dirt" has poo/pee in it? :p

That'd be extra spicy.

[msumax1985]

I'm in the "no trowel' camp. It's not so much about the weight as it is the size. It's a single use item that takes up space.

I plan ahead to use a privy, but if nature calls before I get there, I just jump off the trail 50 yards and find a mid sized stick. Like someone said before, the ground is usually soft under all the trees and leaves. After doing it a few times I have never even thought about taking a trowel any more.

[Sarcasm the elf]

As long as we're on the subject. I find that making sure to bury your waste at least 200 feet (about 70 paces) away from the trail, shelter or water source is just as important as it is to dig a 6" hole.

[4eyedbuzzard]

As long as we're on the subject. I find that making sure to bury your waste at least 200 feet (about 70 paces) away from the trail, shelter or water source is just as important as it is to dig a 6" hole.I think this is probably a bigger issue in many ways. I've seen too many fields of "white flowers" right behind shelters and such.

[msujay]

Greetings,

Planing to do a thru-hike this year going NOBO. This is my first thru-hike. Much research as been done and I have reviewed many gear list. Seems like 99% of the time the list do not include a cat hole shovel. I am wondering why it is that I don't see it listen in list or videos. Makes me think that there may be a lot of crap, literately out there.

So while I am putting my gear together, should it really be in my gear list?
Alvin

Why do you need to bury cats? You like killing pets?

[HikerMom58]

Google Food Defect Action Levels :eek:

Ha ha!! I knew this was coming! I thought about that myself! ;)


That'd be extra spicy.

Blah! :D

[swjohnsey]

I like to use a leaning tree. Base of a tree doesn't lend itself to holes but I do cover it with a handful of duff.

[Sierra2015]

I like to use a leaning tree. Base of a tree doesn't lend itself to holes but I do cover it with a handful of duff.
Communist.

[WingedMonkey]

WingedMonkey 02-01-2012, 14:38 Have had the same orange one for at least 20 years. It seldom stays home. I'm a bit of an explorer and use it to dig up rocks, or roots or plants or critters. Or sometimes use it to destroy and spread those nasty fire rings that others leave in prime tent spots. Get a lot more use out of it it than the swiss army knives and leatherman tools I have given away. This is what I had to say two years ago on the same subject. So now I guess it's been more than 22 years. Same little orange shovel. It's been form Georgia to Maine, Yosemite, Grand Caynon, Florida Trail, Alaska and on and on. For those commenting on how many you find in hiker boxes, it's not because they don't work (or last). It's because it's an easy first thing for a wanna be thru-hiker to dump when they can't stand that heavy pack they think they have. When that don't help they dump something else later. And then they leave a septic mess for whatever distance they do make it, while claiming "not me" I use my heel. :sun

[Sierra2015]

This is what I had to say two years ago on the same subject. So now I guess it's been more than 22 years. Same little orange shovel. It's been form Georgia to Maine, Yosemite, Grand Caynon, Florida Trail, Alaska and on and on. For those commenting on how many you find in hiker boxes, it's not because they don't work (or last). It's because it's an easy first thing for a wanna be thru-hiker to dump when they can't stand that heavy pack they think they have. When that don't help they dump something else later. And then they leave a septic mess for whatever distance they do make it, while claiming "not me" I use my heel. :sun
Odd thing to be sentimental about. :p

[Meriadoc]

I'm impressed WingMonkey. I broke one of those orange shovels and haven't carried one since.

Sometimes it is really difficult to get the proper depth with a trekking pole/heel. Particularly since I wear sandals. I think I'll be giving the snow stake a try.

[winger]

Just ordered a titanium trowel.

[Another Kevin]

The trowel is a commandment from God. Seriously. You can look it up. Deuteronomy 23:13.

(I carry a trowel from the garden store. I gotta get me one of those titanium pooper scoopers one of these months.)

[Another Kevin]

Why do you need to bury cats? You like killing pets?

They're easier to bury than donkeys. Although you don't seem to find any shortage of you-know-what holes.

[WingedMonkey]

The trowel is a commandment from God. Seriously. You can look it up. Deuteronomy 23:13.

(I carry a trowel from the garden store. I gotta get me one of those titanium pooper scoopers one of these months.)

Makes me glad if I'm stuck home doing catch up chores that at least you are stuck home for the weekend. Entertainment is rare.

:p

[SunnyWalker]

Yeeeeeeeaaaaaah, I've tried in that "soft" ground and it is hard to get thru the roots and all if you really are serious. I for one just got one of QiWiz's titanium cat hole shovels. These things are great, and work great.

[LDog]

... Then I found the Big Dig on Qiwiz's site. He makes a sharp edged titanium shovel that weighs 0.4 oz. Great!

Plus 1 on QiWiz's trowel. Less than a half oz, and the size & shape fits in my side pocket along with my TP bag. It's sharp enough to cut thru networks of roots to dig a really sweet cathole.

Bonus 'cause QiWiz is one of us. www.qiwiz.net/trowels.html (http://www.qiwiz.net/trowels.html)

[LDog]

If you shape a small trowel properly and sharpen one edge it can do TRIPLE duty as a trowel, knife and spoon. How's THAT for multi-functional? Now if I can only get it to spray water too . . .

QWiz's trowel is the perfect shape to route water from a sprint to your water bottle. No more filthy rhododendron leaves for me!

[LDog]

The trowel is a commandment from God. Seriously. You can look it up. Deuteronomy 23:13.

Damn! Sure enough! "And you shall have a trowel with your tools, and when you sit down outside, you shall dig a hole with it and turn back and cover up your excrement."

Qi Wiz oughta use that on his web site

[Another Kevin]

Damn! Sure enough! "And you shall have a trowel with your tools, and when you sit down outside, you shall dig a hole with it and turn back and cover up your excrement."

Qi Wiz oughta use that on his web site

Would I lie about a thing like that? :sun

(I seem to recall there's a commandment somewhere on that subject, too...)

[SunnyWalker]

Well, QiWiz's trowel will help the user if they are serious about LNT. There are other methods sure. However, this is a good tool. Can you dig it!!??

[LDog]

Would I lie about a thing like that? :sun

I will never doubt you again ...


(I seem to recall there's a commandment somewhere on that subject, too...)

Ok, well, maybe I will ...

[4eyedbuzzard]

The trowel is a commandment from God. Seriously. You can look it up. Deuteronomy 23:13.

(I carry a trowel from the garden store. I gotta get me one of those titanium pooper scoopers one of these months.)


Damn! Sure enough! "And you shall have a trowel with your tools, and when you sit down outside, you shall dig a hole with it and turn back and cover up your excrement."

Qi Wiz oughta use that on his web site
Okay, but "trowel" and "spade" are just two of many different translations - it's not, as is typical with the Bible, a clear cut translation. Also used by a myriad of bible editors are the words: something to dig with, a digging tool, a pointed stick, a stake, etc. And according to many more expert than I, the literal translation is to carry a "nail" or "pin" amongst one's weapons (the law distinctly pertains to military camps). http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/23-13.htm

So it would seem to me that it is the process of burying one's poop, not the tool used, that is the important part, as the verse is part of the greater instruction about keeping the military camp clean. Since hikers carry poles and stakes or can find sticks and rocks to use as digging implements, they can feel relieved when relieving that they are keeping the camp pure, no matter what implement they choose to "diggest thou a hole" with.

Rejoice!

[LDog]

Okay, but "trowel" and "spade" are just two of many different translations

#buzzkill ...

[Sierra2015]

#buzzkill ...

#buzzwords

[Meriadoc]

Today we are going to learn how to defend ourselves from an assailant armed with a banana!

Pointed stick set me off. :D

[Hikes in Rain]

Damn! Sure enough! "And you shall have a trowel with your tools, and when you sit down outside, you shall dig a hole with it and turn back and cover up your excrement."

Qi Wiz oughta use that on his web site

"Whoever wrote Deuteronomy was a good camper" --Horace Kephart, Camping and Woodcraft

http://books.google.com/books?id=2FZVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA223&lpg=PA223&dq=whoever+wrote+deuteronomy+was+a+good+camper+hor ace+kephart&source=bl&ots=DtFV6vOxcU&sig=ul_o8HU8YOHa3n2w-WcCWB2NrbY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=LiYXU_btGc62kAfn3oD4Bg&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=whoever%20wrote%20deuteronomy%20was%20a%20good%2 0camper%20horace%20kephart&f=false

[QiWiz]

Damn! Sure enough! "And you shall have a trowel with your tools, and when you sit down outside, you shall dig a hole with it and turn back and cover up your excrement."

Qi Wiz oughta use that on his web site

Who knew that LNT was in the Bible?
Another Kevin, that's who.
And I should use it.

Digging tools good.

Titanium tools . . . Priceless !

[cabbagehead]

Shovels don't dig well on their own. If I planted a tree, I would use a pick ax along with a shovel. If I had to choose 1 tool to plant the tree, I would use the pick ax.
On the trail I use a stick and my hands. My typical hole: 15 cm diameter, 18 cm depth
If you bring a shovel, you will still need a rod shaped digging tool. Choose a shovel that can clean out food containers.

[Drybones]

Down south they have controlled burns and pine trees burn several feet into the ground, makes excellent cat holes, just don't fall in.

[LDog]

Who knew that LNT was in the Bible?
Another Kevin, that's who.
And I should use it.
Digging tools good.
Titanium tools . . . Priceless !

One might even say ... Divine!

[kunzman]

Pricey, but way cool:

http://www.suluk46.com/products%20%20-%20P11%20Titanium%20Trowel.html

[Biggie Master]

Moses carried a titanium trowel and also used hiking poles.

[Drybones]

Moses carried a titanium trowel and also used hiking poles.

I believe that was called a staff.....dont know if it was a Leki or Black Diamond.

[swjohnsey]

Actually, the Israelites did practice LNT in their treck throught the desert.

[theinfamousj]

I use a snow stake (also from REI) as a double duty cat hole digger and as one of my tent stakes (it works even in non-snow). However, I have QiWiz's titanium big trowel on my wish list.

I usually find some leaves or put down a layer of TP, do my business on that, dig my hole after, and then slide my mess+its base into the hole and cover. I never seem to plan my bathroom stops with enough time to get a cat hole properly dug before the waste is ready to flee the me so I opted for sliding over going in a too shallow hole.

Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk

[Deacon]

Moses carried a titanium trowel and also used hiking poles.

Wonder if it was one of QiWiz's trowels.

QiWiz, how long have you been in business?

[QiWiz]

Wonder if it was one of QiWiz's trowels.

QiWiz, how long have you been in business?

in fall of 2010 I made about a dozen "Original" trowels that sold in a day to backpackinglight.com folks. I refined the design, added the larger Big Dig to my offerings, and started my "business" 3 years ago in early 2011. I still think of myself as a hobbyist, but it has taken off in ways that continue to surprise me.

Many many thanks to all the "Team Trowel" members out there on trail. You make me smile.

Can you dig it?

[Sierra2015]

in fall of 2010 I made about a dozen "Original" trowels that sold in a day to backpackinglight.com folks. I refined the design, added the larger Big Dig to my offerings, and started my "business" 3 years ago in early 2011. I still think of myself as a hobbyist, but it has taken off in ways that continue to surprise me.

Many many thanks to all the "Team Trowel" members out there on trail. You make me smile.

Can you dig it? Love stories like this!

[onecamper]

I just sprung for the titanium deal too.. I've been using stakes but it's a pain digging a hole when you gotta poop and I usually put it off a bit.

[swjohnsey]

Wonder how many poopie trowels make it to Kathadin?

[Coffee]

I'm not sure why, but trowels seem to bring out the sarcasm in ULers... Somehow I don't think that the extra ounce for a snow stake or one of QiWiz's trowels will be the deciding factor when it comes to finishing a hike.

[RangerZ]

Maybe I need titanium?26500

[bflorac]

I carried a shovel on my first section hike 6 years ago. Never used it nor have needed it since. Walk off the trail 100 yards anywhere (way away from shelter/water) and you will find soft ground that you can easily dig with a hiking pole. Please do NOT poop on the trail with or without a shovel! After a few weeks on the trail one tends to get "regular" (unless you don't filter your water and get sick). You will find your body will feel the need about the same time everyday. Just plan accordingly.

[Foresight]

Nothing else out there buries their crap....

Leave the beaten path. Clear out the leaves. Plant the mine. Disguise accordingly with displaced leaves. Done.

[Sierra2015]

Nothing else out there buries their crap....

Leave the beaten path. Clear out the leaves. Plant the mine. Disguise accordingly with displaced leaves. Done.
Ever met a cat? :p

[QiWiz]

[QUOTE=Foresight;1864678]Nothing else out there buries their crap..../QUOTE]

Fortunately for all of us, most backpackers try to Leave No Trace and do bury their crap.
Let's not encourage people to leave piles of human waste and TP flowers scattered about in the woods.

[Coffee]

[QUOTE=Foresight;1864678]Nothing else out there buries their crap..../QUOTE]

Fortunately for all of us, most backpackers try to Leave No Trace and do bury their crap.
Let's not encourage people to leave piles of human waste and TP flowers scattered about in the woods.

Not to mention that it is illegal to not bury waste and to litter. I hope anyone who just craps in the woods and moves on gets cited.

[Hill Ape]

sog etool. folds flat, comes with its own case, only weighs two ponds and in today's constantly changing environment, a folding shovel can be an indispensable tool. Because well, ZOMBIES!

[Foresight]

Sorry, stealth ****ter and not gonna change. I do, however, defy you to find one of my land mines.

[perdidochas]

Nothing else out there buries their crap....

Leave the beaten path. Clear out the leaves. Plant the mine. Disguise accordingly with displaced leaves. Done.


Cats (including the larger cats like courgars, lions and tigers), weasels, and armadillos all bury their crap.

[bamboo bob]

The feces break down but its peoples TP and wetones that get blown around. I have also seen those Party Hikers" leave a dump right on the trail to play a big funny joke on their friends. Don't forget the women who leave paper "flowers" right on the trail. Education beats shovels any day. In Tenn Smokies it can get pretty nasty.

Off trail between shelters works well I think. But you really can pack out tp if its not too vile. I doubt i will pack out tp after diarrhea four days from town though.

[Foresight]

No, cats, et al, do not bury, they cover. Big difference and identical to what I am describing.

[Coffee]

Sorry, stealth ****ter and not gonna change. I do, however, defy you to find one of my land mines.

Nice to know I have to watch where I step due to the inconsiderate actions of others.

[Foresight]

Reading comprehension isn't a strong suit of yours, I see.

[Coffee]

Reading comprehension isn't a strong suit of yours, I see.

Not is courtesy a strong suit of yours when it comes to human waste disposal.

[Coffee]

"Disposal of human bodily waste shall be accomplished only at sanitary facilities or must be buried four to six inches deep in an area not frequented by the public, not visible from trails, campsites or developed areas, and at least 100 feet from any water source."

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/hiking-basics/regulations-permits

So anyone who isn't taking the trouble to bury waste is in direct violation of National Park Service regulations. I hope Foresight (who displays little of his screen name) is eventually caught and cited for not burying his waste.

[Foresight]

$100 says it never happens.

[Mick3y]

Just because you don't get caught doesn't mean it's not illegal.

[Foresight]

Two toe hooks with a boot will buy you 4" in eastern arboreal duff with room to spare.
Rake back the leaves. Plant it. Cover it.

I'm not carrying a damn shovel.

[CalebJ]

Can a mod clean this crap up? It's illegal not to bury so there's no reason for the forums to allow members to encourage it.

[Coffee]

Two toe hooks with a boot will buy you 4" in eastern arboreal duff with room to spare.
Rake back the leaves. Plant it. Cover it.

I'm not carrying a damn shovel.

Well, now you are changing your story. You said before that you don't dig out a hole with your boot, only "cleared out the leaves" and "plant the mine". And "disguise accordingly"


Nothing else out there buries their crap....

Leave the beaten path. Clear out the leaves. Plant the mine. Disguise accordingly with displaced leaves. Done.

Now you claim that you are making a four inch hole with your boot which is entirely different and something many people seem to do.

[bamboo bob]

It should stay. Maybe people will get educated. Also free speech, etc.

[CalebJ]

Free speech isn't guaranteed on a website hosted privately. That said, your point about education is valid. Hopefully the thorough rebuttal Foresight is receiving is adequate.

[BryceB]

I couldn't beleive I read this on the Pine Mountain Trail Associations web site...
The feces break down but its peoples TP and wetones that get blown around. I have also seen those Party Hikers" leave a dump right on the trail to play a big funny joke on their friends. Don't forget the women who leave paper "flowers" right on the trail. Education beats shovels any day. In Tenn Smokies it can get pretty nasty.

Off trail between shelters works well I think. But you really can pack out tp if its not too vile. I doubt i will pack out tp after diarrhea four days from town though.

I couldn't believe I read this on the Pine Mountain Trail Associations web site...

Bath tissue can be left in woods and covered with leaves after you go.
in the section about restrooms on this page http://www.pinemountaintrail.org/?page=12

[BryceB]

I couldn't believe I read this on the Pine Mountain Trail Associations web site...


the 2nd quote.. not Bamboo Bob's

[bamboo bob]

I guess there is debate about what decomposes and what doesn't. There is TP that disappears sold by Coleman. Most women I know use a p rag. Men use a tree. Otherwise pack it out. We used to say bury, burn, or pack it out. It would be interesting to know what people actually do. Not just what they say they do.

[Foresight]

Do you throw tomatoes on top of the ground when you plant them?

[Foresight]

Nothing else out there buries their crap....

Leave the beaten path. Clear out the leaves. Plant the mine. Disguise accordingly with displaced leaves. Done.

Show me the part where I say I do not dig a hole.

[Foresight]

You can't, because you're reading into it what you want to read into it.

[HikerMom58]

I know of a member on here called Fudge Foot! LOL :p

[DocMahns]

I use camouflage toilet paper, or just put everything in my pocket