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Chair-man
02-27-2014, 08:52
What would be a good boot for wet sloppy snow? I'm looking for something waterproof that will keep my feet dry.
Or is there a lightweight rubber overboot I could get to go over my regular boots? Thanks

kayak karl
02-27-2014, 09:00
will you be hiking in these? i have never found a "waterproof" hiking boot. i take extra socks. :)

Rocket Jones
02-27-2014, 09:20
The problem with "waterproof" boots is that when water inevitably gets inside, they take forever to dry out.

+1 on extra socks.

Chair-man
02-27-2014, 09:36
will you be hiking in these? i have never found a "waterproof" hiking boot. i take extra socks. :)

Yes will be hiking.
Actually, I still have a really old pair (80's) of Timberland Iditarod insulated boots from when I lived in PA. They are made from water buffalo hide and they are waterproof but they're overkill and not too comfortable to hike in for any length of time. They look like this but not as in good of shape.
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Sierra2015
02-27-2014, 09:43
What makes them uncomfortable?

If it's buffalo hide you can take them to a boot shop and get them stretched. Or you could change out the inserts.

rafe
02-27-2014, 09:43
Sorrels. Yes, they will keep your feet dry all day, in wet snow. I use them for any backcountry hiking in winter, including the Whites.

Chair-man
02-27-2014, 10:00
What makes them uncomfortable?

If it's buffalo hide you can take them to a boot shop and get them stretched. Or you could change out the inserts.

They fit tight now. I can only get 1 thin insole with 1 pair of thin socks in. My feet just get sore after about 3 or 4 miles. They're good for when the trails down here get a little swampy.

Chair-man
02-27-2014, 10:03
Sorrels. Yes, they will keep your feet dry all day, in wet snow. I use them for any backcountry hiking in winter, including the Whites.

Ahh yes Sorels, another blast form the past. They've been around for a while. any particular model you recommend? Not the ones with the felt liner. Something you can hike in.

Sierra2015
02-27-2014, 10:08
They fit tight now. I can only get 1 thin insole with 1 pair of thin socks in. My feet just get sore after about 3 or 4 miles. They're good for when the trails down here get a little swampy.
You can get them stretched. Take them to a boot shop, like where they sell cowboy boots.

Chair-man
02-27-2014, 10:41
You can get them stretched. Take them to a boot shop, like where they sell cowboy boots.

Thanks, I'll have to look into that.

Snowleopard
02-27-2014, 11:02
NEOS overshoes work well, a little over 2 lb. I've used mine over heavy leather hiking boots and trail runners. They add a lot of warmth and seem waterproof. For cold weather I use a Sorel felt liner inside and no shoe; with extra socks this works for me down to -10F. They are not breathable, so for day after day use you'll need a vapor barrier sock or it gets wet inside from condensation.
Mine is the NEOS adventurer model. It's tall enough that you don't need gaitors for deep snow:
http://www.overshoesonline.com/ Some of the models don't have full soles; I'm skeptical that they would be fully waterproof. Mine have full lugged soles that are sturdier than many trail shoes and work on snowshoes.

For temps above freezing, trail runners with goretex socks work OK for me.

Chair-man
02-27-2014, 12:51
NEOS overshoes work well, a little over 2 lb. I've used mine over heavy leather hiking boots and trail runners. They add a lot of warmth and seem waterproof. For cold weather I use a Sorel felt liner inside and no shoe; with extra socks this works for me down to -10F. They are not breathable, so for day after day use you'll need a vapor barrier sock or it gets wet inside from condensation.
Mine is the NEOS adventurer model. It's tall enough that you don't need gaitors for deep snow:
http://www.overshoesonline.com/ Some of the models don't have full soles; I'm skeptical that they would be fully waterproof. Mine have full lugged soles that are sturdier than many trail shoes and work on snowshoes.

For temps above freezing, trail runners with goretex socks work OK for me.

Thanks for the info. I'll have to look into those goretex socks

rafe
02-27-2014, 13:18
Ahh yes Sorels, another blast form the past. They've been around for a while. any particular model you recommend? Not the ones with the felt liner. Something you can hike in.

I dunno, the ones I own have thick fleece liners, rubber soles, leather uppers. They're quite tall, they come up a few inches above my ankles. I've traversed the Franconia Ridge with them, climbed a few other White Mtn. 4000 footers in them, but always day hikes (so far.)

You'd really only want to use these for serious winter or mud-season hiking. A winter peakbagger boot, not your usual through-hiker's glorified sneakers.

sfdoc
02-27-2014, 14:42
Check out Wiggy's. They have pac boots for about $100.00. They're worth looking at. Liners are lamilite, removeable, and wearable as an around camp or the house "shoe."

rafe
02-28-2014, 11:04
These. With luck I'll be hiking up Kinsman with them tomorrow, though not on the AT. They've got a couple dozen miles of Winter in the Whites on 'em so far. Sorells. The liner's some kind of synthetic felt-like stuff. (Contrary to my earlier musing...)

Chair-man
02-28-2014, 19:11
These. With luck I'll be hiking up Kinsman with them tomorrow, though not on the AT. They've got a couple dozen miles of Winter in the Whites on 'em so far. Sorells. The liner's some kind of synthetic felt-like stuff. (Contrary to my earlier musing...)

Anything with a felt liner always felt big and cluncky to me. I'm really looking for something without a liner. Those boots you posted are definitely the Sorel Conquest model as show on their web page (http://www.sorel.com/mens-conquest-boot-NM1049.html). Some of the reviews of these boots aren't too swift.
Sorel was a quality boot years ago but here's what happen to the Sorel company. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorel_%28company%29)
So many good companies end up getting bought out and there product goes to crap. Look what happened to the Fender guitar, the Brunswick pool table. People still buy something because of the name even when the product is now junk.
Not saying your boots are junk but Sorel is just another boot company now.

rafe
02-28-2014, 19:26
I'm telling you the boots have served me admirably over the last four years and fit the bill for "walking all day in wet snow." If you'd rather believe the reviews and gnash your teeth about the decline of the company, as portrayed in Wikipedia... I certainly can't stop you.

DumbAss
02-28-2014, 19:53
The Neos Navigators with stabilicers are my choice. http://overshoesneos.com/ Last week I hiked an AT section that had 2 inches of ice over 8 inches of slush over 3 inches of mud. I should have deployed the gaitors but I was in a hurry trying to beat the sunset to the shelter in the photos I am putting up from day 12615426155. My pants were soaked from the overboot to my knees but the boots were completely dry inside other than from condensation. The spikes were a lifesaver. I wore the boots for three days and my feet did get a little pruned from the lack of breathability but no moisture came in from outside and I hardly knew I was wearing them. All the guys with me will have them on our next winter trip after seeing them perform. The Navigators have built in gaitors that come well above your knees when unfolded, they have spikes on the bottom almost eliminating the need for microspikes and they are completely waterproof. I have had them down below 0 and not felt the least bit of cold.

Chair-man
02-28-2014, 20:21
I'm telling you the boots have served me admirably over the last four years and fit the bill for "walking all day in wet snow." If you'd rather believe the reviews and gnash your teeth about the decline of the company, as portrayed in Wikipedia... I certainly can't stop you.

I don't doubt your boots have served you well as most of the reviews are good but I also believe many people were having a problem with the rubber separating from the leather as seen in the most recent video review of the 225 reviews at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Sorel-Mens-Conquest-Snow-Boot/dp/B000BQ87TY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1393631422&sr=8-2&keywords=sorel+conquest)

Dogwood
02-28-2014, 21:24
Before all the anti waterproof shoe crowd weighs in telling you you can't keep feet dry in those conditions I can tell you on plenty of hikes in wet slushy conditions I've been able to keep my feet warm and dry even on multi day hikes with the slush not terribly deep(under 6"). Notice I didn't say in extended heavy rain. What I look for is a Waterproof boot/shoe with a high WP gussetted tongue, a tightly sealed or preferably one piece lower(examine the seals or stitching closely - this can be important!), and use gaiters to keep the slush out(I like eVent WP or highly water resistant stretchy Schoeller fabric gaiters). There's also a WP over bootie for low cuts. I've never used them though. In these types of conditions I'm sometimes(when it's COLD and hiking at a more moderate to slower pace) hiking in Schoeller fabric pants too which help keep the slush out of the shoe. You might look at some of the Icebug shoes. They offer them in low and mid cuts.

Another Kevin
03-01-2014, 13:14
+1 on the Sorel Caribou boot - yes, the one with the felt inner boots.

For winter peakbagging, I wear Caribous. Yeah, a blast from the past. They seem mostly to have licked the quality problems that plagued them about ten years ago; I don't see much difference between the pair I have now and the pair I had in the 1970s. Kamik has a similar boot that's about $30 cheaper, and my daughter likes hers. (I forget the model name.)

The system has a lot of layers:
Wicking - Thin polyester dress socks
Vapor barrier - Doubled bread or newspaper bags. (A single layer tears)
Warm - Wool hiking socks (Darn Tough or Wigwam)
Felt inner boot.
Waterproof outer boot.
Over-the-calf gaiter.

My wicking layer always comes out clammy, but dries fast and it's light enough that I can carry 2-3 extra pairs to change into. My wool socks and inner boots stay dry even after a whole day on snowshoes or microspikes. I typically carry an extra pair of wool socks for sleeping in so that the main pair can air out, and often an extra extra pair in case I step in a stream or something.

Yeah, it's big and clunky. For deep winter in upstate NY, you can't really do with less. And - well, snowshoes, crampons, or ice creepers are big and clunky, whatever boot you wear. You can get lighter and still stay warm and dry only by moving up to plastic mountaineering boots, which are damnably expensive and suffer from 'shin slap' because they're so stiff. Few people who aren't technical climbers go with these. (You need them for technical crampons.)

For further reference on winter boots, with more detailed comparison of the options and specific models, there's a nice AMC presentation:

https://www.hbbostonamc.org/winter/WHPPresentationPDFs/2012-2013/BootTalk.pdf

Dogwood
03-01-2014, 13:55
AK, the OP may not be peakbagging and probably not in the Daks or The Whites(that article was written mainly for deep winter peak bagging in The Whites). He didn't say anything about the need for using crampons. He may not be referring to wet slushy snow conditions during deep winter but instead during the shoulder seasons for backpacking ie;does he really have the need for a -40* - -60* stifff HEAVY EXPENSIVE plastic boot? could it be that a 3 season boot might be all he needs? could it be that a mid cut trail running boot be all he needs? That article suggests those types of shoes might not do just fine for what the OP has in mind.

DumbAss
03-01-2014, 19:47
Yes will be hiking.
Actually, I still have a really old pair (80's) of Timberland Iditarod insulated boots from when I lived in PA. They are made from water buffalo hide and they are waterproof but they're overkill and not too comfortable to hike in for any length of time. They look like this but not as in good of shape.
26124
I had a pair of those Iditerod boots in the 90's I wore every day. Was in the restaurant business and because of steel in my ankle I like a lot of support. My favorite work boot ever and i wore them indoors Prob have 1000 grams thinsulate nd 11 inches. If you want to get rid of them let me know what size

What I wear every day now are new balance 1099. 15 oz water resistant hiking boot. Have yet to get wet inside, even crossing creeks, awesome grippy sole and very breathable. http://www.joesnewbalanceoutlet.com/detail.asp?style=MO1099GR. I spray these with silicone to help the waterproofing. The nikwax or granger water based waterproofer may be better at not slowing breathability

Chair-man
03-01-2014, 23:26
You might look at some of the Icebug shoes. They offer them in low and mid cuts.

At first I thought you must have misspelled "Icebug" and you meant something else but there really is a company called Icebug (http://icebug.se/en/). A Swedish company so I guess they would know a thing or two about snow. Interesting Boot.


AK, the OP may not be peakbagging and probably not in the Daks or The Whites(that article was written mainly for deep winter peak bagging in The Whites). He didn't say anything about the need for using crampons. He may not be referring to wet slushy snow conditions during deep winter but instead during the shoulder seasons for backpacking ie;does he really have the need for a -40* - -60* stifff HEAVY EXPENSIVE plastic boot? could it be that a 3 season boot might be all he needs? could it be that a mid cut trail running boot be all he needs? That article suggests those types of shoes might not do just fine for what the OP has in mind.

I'll be a little more clear as to what I'm looking for. My thru hike attempt won't be until 2016. I'll be 62. I'm a fairly slow hiker 8 - 10 miles a day so I'm planning on an early NOBO start say late Feb or early March. I want a waterproof boot for the start and I don't care if they do take longer to dry if they get wet inside but I might just get these N.E.O.S superlite overboots (http://www.campmor.com/n-e-o-s-superlite-series-villager-overshoes.shtml) at 1.6 lbs I could just put them in my pack when I'm not using them.



i wore them indoors Prob have 1000 grams thinsulate nd 11 inches. If you want to get rid of them let me know what size

Yes, they do have thinsulate in them. I'm going to be taking them to a shoe store this week for stretching and I'll see how that works out before I try to sell them. They were resoled once. The original soles had a lot of cushion, the soles on them now are a bit stiffer. They're size 11.

Dogwood
03-02-2014, 03:06
"My thru hike attempt won't be until 2016. I'll be 62. I'm a fairly slow hiker 8 - 10 miles a day so I'm planning on an early NOBO start say late Feb or early March. I want a waterproof boot for the start and I don't care if they do take longer to dry if they get wet inside but I might just get these N.E.O.S superlite overboots (http://www.campmor.com/n-e-o-s-superlite-series-villager-overshoes.shtml) at 1.6 lbs I could just put them in my pack when I'm not using them."

Suspected that's what you were referring to. They have other over boots like that meant for runners that are probably lighter wt. If these work for ya great though. They might make nice but rather on the heavier side camp shoes too. In effect you'd be hauling two prs of shoes.

kayak karl
03-02-2014, 09:16
I want a waterproof boot for the start and I don't care if they do take longer to dry if they get wet inside but I might just get these N.E.O.S superlite overboots (http://www.campmor.com/n-e-o-s-superlite-series-villager-overshoes.shtml) at 1.6 lbs I could just put them in my pack when I'm not using them.
they will NOT dry on the trail. i used mid new balance boots with gortex for a Jan and Feb AT hike. they did not dry unless i took a zero and even then they were damp. waterproof socks worked great.
make sure your advice is coming from long distance hikers. i made the mistake of not asking the right questions and got poor advice. you can put up with a lot for a weekend, it gets old fast after a few 100 miles.
good luck on the waterproof Hiking footware :)

Madpaddy
03-02-2014, 10:55
ASOLO GTS 520 GV. We have been out all winter in them....both the wife and I......we use gaiters in conjunction.......feet have stayed warm and dry albeit we have had the opportunity to let them dry indoors and regularly silicone them....obviously not an option if your stuck out on the trail day in day out

rocketsocks
03-02-2014, 11:02
they will NOT dry on the trail. i used mid new balance boots with gortex for a Jan and Feb AT hike. they did not dry unless i took a zero and even then they were damp. waterproof socks worked great.
make sure your advice is coming from long distance hikers. i made the mistake of not asking the right questions and got poor advice. you can put up with a lot for a weekend, it gets old fast after a few 100 miles.
good luck on the waterproof Hiking footware :)I like your quote KK...oh so true. Lots of self proclaimed experts these days.

Dogwood
03-02-2014, 15:23
"...waterproof socks worked great." I'm glad that option was finally brought to the table. Absolutely correct. Certainly lighter wt and some would make acceptable lightly used around camp camp shoes. Would also work if not wanting separate early on AT thru-hiker shoes and summer season shoes. In effect you'd have the warmth and WPing you'd want to protect your feet for the first 4-5 wks or so and then they could be mailed back home. That beats going with a heavy WP shoe during the course of an entire AT thru-hike IMHO.

Another Kevin
03-02-2014, 15:32
AK, the OP may not be peakbagging and probably not in the Daks or The Whites(that article was written mainly for deep winter peak bagging in The Whites). He didn't say anything about the need for using crampons. He may not be referring to wet slushy snow conditions during deep winter but instead during the shoulder seasons for backpacking ie;does he really have the need for a -40* - -60* stifff HEAVY EXPENSIVE plastic boot? could it be that a 3 season boot might be all he needs? could it be that a mid cut trail running boot be all he needs? That article suggests those types of shoes might not do just fine for what the OP has in mind.

Yeah. You're right. I tend to filter things too much through my own experience - and this year, that includes the fact that deep winter just won't quit. What you need on the southern AT in February and what you need in the Northeast in February are two very different things. (And by local standards, my system is geared to pretty mild conditions: I wouldn't trust it for an extended traverse above timberline; a quick peak-bag is pretty much the limit.) Note that I was NOT recommending plastic mountaineering boots: I was pointing out the soft pac boots in the left-hand column as being more appropriate. The table at the end was useful: what's appropriate for different activities, ranging from shoveling the driveway all the way on up to technical ice climbing and extended above-timberline travel.

For slush in the shoulder season I have an old-school heavy clunky pair of leather boots and can attach microspikes when it's icy. I still use the Darn Tough or Wigwam socks, and use liners and a vapor barrier so that I don't get them all full of condensation. The layering system is nearly the same. The boots are less insulated and lighter, and lack felt inner boots. And if I had short gaiters I might switch to them. I wear gaiters whenever there's snow or mud about. I hate wet socks.

Another Kevin
03-02-2014, 15:35
they will NOT dry on the trail. i used mid new balance boots with gortex for a Jan and Feb AT hike. they did not dry unless i took a zero and even then they were damp. waterproof socks worked great.
make sure your advice is coming from long distance hikers. i made the mistake of not asking the right questions and got poor advice. you can put up with a lot for a weekend, it gets old fast after a few 100 miles.
good luck on the waterproof Hiking footware :)


True dat, and I'm not a long-distance hiker, although I do get out in the winter a fair amount. So take anything I say with a grain of salt.

Waterproof boots do not dry in the field unless they have removable liners. That's why I mentioned pac boots in the first place. Just letting your shoes get wet and using waterproof socks is another option. I know people who swear by it, and apparently you're one of them. I haven't tried that system.

Malto
03-02-2014, 15:46
For thru hiking I would go with either Goretex socks or even my current setup which is a MYOG PU coated nylon sock, basically a vapor barrier sock. When I use the nylon socks I will wear a lightweight liner underneath them. They will get damp from sweat but you will be warm and damp, not cold and damp. They even will work for 6" deep water crossings if a bit of care is taken in seam sealing. In snow combined with real gaiter it will keep snow out. Need a little more protection. Wear liner, waterproof, insulating, waterproof, shoe and your insulating layer will be dry sandwiched between two waterproof layers. Want to try it out, use bread bags but those wouldn't last the mileage needed for a multiday hike.

Chair-man
03-02-2014, 20:54
Thanks for all the feedback. I have learned to take the advice from you folks on here that's why I stay on this site :).
So now I think I'll forget about the waterproof boots and the overboots and try a pair of the waterproof socks. Searching the internet for waterproof socks you come up with Rocky Gore-tex, Sealskins, and I found these (http://www.hammacher.com/Product/75586?cm_cat=ProductSEM&cm_pla=AdWordsPLA&source=PRODSEM&gclid=CKmDjc2O9bwCFUcV7AodoFAAnw).

jeffmeh
03-02-2014, 20:59
Thanks for all the feedback. I have learned to take the advice from you folks on here that's why I stay on this site :).
So now I think I'll forget about the waterproof boots and the overboots and try a pair of the waterproof socks. Searching the internet for waterproof socks you come up with Rocky Gore-tex, Sealskins, and I found these (http://www.hammacher.com/Product/75586?cm_cat=ProductSEM&cm_pla=AdWordsPLA&source=PRODSEM&gclid=CKmDjc2O9bwCFUcV7AodoFAAnw).

Those look intriguing. I have the Rocky's, and they do not stretch at all, so fit is somewhat finicky and you have little flexibility in terms of your sock thickness underneath. And per my son's experience, they are unlikely to last an entire thru without failing.

If you do get the Hammacher ones, I would be very interested in how they work out.

BrianLe
03-02-2014, 23:33
"So now I think I'll forget about the waterproof boots and the overboots and try a pair of the waterproof socks. Searching the internet for waterproof socks you come up with Rocky Gore-tex, Sealskins, and I found these (http://www.hammacher.com/Product/75586?cm_cat=ProductSEM&cm_pla=AdWordsPLA&source=PRODSEM&gclid=CKmDjc2O9bwCFUcV7AodoFAAnw)."

Quick-drying (not waterproof) trail runners, thick wool socks, and Rocky Goretex socks are the combo that I use for such conditions. I started the AT that way in late Feb of 2010, and am hiking a month of it again (from Springer) starting in less than two weeks the same way.

Of those items, the wool socks are more important than the goretex socks; the latter are kind of optional IMO, but I will bring 'em. Just don't imagine that you will therefore have dry feet all the time (!). You can, however, dry them separately, and have perhaps more "dry times" as a result.

Size the goretex socks up. My feet are a nominal size 10, I wear size 11-1/2 trail runners (that much of an increase isn't necessarily right for you ...), and size 12 Rocky Goretex socks work well for me, with a thick wool sock inside.

If you go the goretex sock route, don't get goretex shoes (!). The goretex socks work by having a vapor delta, and need to be able to breath on the outside (i.e., breathable shoes with mesh) in order for any vapor transport to occur. Practically speaking, don't expect a great deal of that anyway, but still.

In terms of how long goretex socks last, I think this is very much dependent upon how much/often you wear them. If it's just wet but not cold, I likely won't bother. So a goodly amount of time I'm not wearing them, and of course if you find you're almost never wearing them --- time to mail them (and maybe other stuff?) home !

DumbAss
03-03-2014, 17:59
they will NOT dry on the trail. i used mid new balance boots with gortex for a Jan and Feb AT hike. they did not dry unless i took a zero and even then they were damp. waterproof socks worked great.
make sure your advice is coming from long distance hikers. i made the mistake of not asking the right questions and got poor advice. you can put up with a lot for a weekend, it gets old fast after a few 100 miles.
good luck on the waterproof Hiking footware :)

How to dry your shoes on the trail 101

Fill two water bottles with near boiling water remove insoles and put one hot bottle in each shoe.

Wrap your socks around the top of the bottles to seal as much heat and air in the boots as possible.

Hang the boots where they will get as much wind over them as possible, the boots will dry (quite a bit at least) as the heat escapes thru boot.

This works especially well in sub freezing dry air. Dont believe me tho as I dont walk as many miles a year as a bus boy does. try it at home first

Meriadoc
03-03-2014, 19:14
Thanks for all the feedback. I have learned to take the advice from you folks on here that's why I stay on this site :).
So now I think I'll forget about the waterproof boots and the overboots and try a pair of the waterproof socks. Searching the internet for waterproof socks you come up with Rocky Gore-tex, Sealskins, and I found these (http://www.hammacher.com/Product/75586?cm_cat=ProductSEM&cm_pla=AdWordsPLA&source=PRODSEM&gclid=CKmDjc2O9bwCFUcV7AodoFAAnw).

There is also Warmlite.

kayak karl
03-04-2014, 09:16
i saw this on HF (https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=85761), just thought id pass it on. :)