View Full Version : Western Mountaineering versus Feathered Friends
I am preparing to buy a 3 season sleeping bag and I think I have narrowed down my choices to 2 different bags. After doing some research I am looking at the Western Mountaineering Alpinlite or the Feathered Friends Swift UL. Both are 20 degree bags and the weight and cost are basically the same. The Feathered Friends bag is a little roomier by just a couple inches in the torso area and that might be nice for a big guy like myself. I was hoping some folks out there might have experience with these bags or other WM or FF bags and will please share that experience? Any help is appreciated as this is an expensive item!
LIhikers
03-02-2014, 23:16
If you're looking for a quality sleeping bag that will give you the room you need consider a Montbell sleeping bag. They have a feature that allows the bag to stretch to fit and to let you move inside it. Check their web site for more info.
FinnMelanson
03-02-2014, 23:27
I have a Feathered Friends UL Down 20 that I just bought and plan on using for my upcoming 2014 thru-hike. I havn't had a chance to test it outside yet, but the bag is very comfortable.
Hill Ape
03-02-2014, 23:40
its like volvo or saab, ferrari or lamborghini.... you simply can't go wrong... that said, step away from my FF Kestrel, no one has to get hurt
I have a WM Ultralite, also a 20F rated bag and likely very similar to the AlpineLite. It's a great bag; after a whole lot of use, I had it restuffed last year, and in fact 'overstuffed', which is an option you can request. I'm a pretty "normal" sized person, at about 5' 10" tall, the 6' bag fits me great.
I think you'll have trouble finding anyone with significant experience with similar bag types from two manufacturers like this. I suspect you can't go wrong with either choice, however. Although I live close to Seattle, my only experience with Feathered Friends is with their down booties, which are also excellent.
Personally Demo a few sleeping bags(as many makes and models as you can, that's going to be iffy with FF bags though) to get a good feel for the dimensions you need/want in a sleeping bag. You make no mention of shoulder/hip width, feet size, your body shape, your hiking style(if you can pin pt to one), how you sleep, how you are planning to utilize this temp rated sleeping bag, etc. These aspects will help assist anyone attempting to assist with more targeted opinions.
Used the WM Alpinlite on my thru last year, until Marion. Great bag, very comfortable during the cold nights early on the trail, and packs down small when in the pack. I swapped out for my lighter, summer bag after Mt. Rogers, but I didn't regret getting the WM. Well worth the investment, IMO.
If you want/need/prefer/like to have a right zip bag, Western Mountaineering is the only choice if buying "off the rack". Feathered Friends may, waiting for an answer via email, build a right zip bag at additional cost. I am currently torn between the WM Ultralite 20 degree right zip versus the Feathered Friends Swallow UL 20. If the Swallow costs extra for the right zip, the Ultralite wins. Bonus points to Western Mountaineering: local dealer, I can crawl in the Ultralite, I can make sure that it will fit in my Rivendell Jensen pack, the Ultralite has a full collar.
Disclaimer: I am already a very happy owner of a WM Antelope.
Wayne
Used the WM Alpinlite on my thru last year, until Marion. Great bag, very comfortable during the cold nights early on the trail, and packs down small when in the pack. I swapped out for my lighter, summer bag after Mt. Rogers, but I didn't regret getting the WM. Well worth the investment, IMO.
I have the WM as well and did the same. I am a large guy too, so if you can get a little more shoulder room than the Aplinlite it may be worth it.
I have the WM as well and did the same. I am a large guy too, so if you can get a little more shoulder room than the Aplinlite it may be worth it.
Shoulder room is the same at 64". The Swift is a bit larger in the hips: 58" vs. 55" for the Alpinlite. I'm not a large person, 5'-8", 150 lbs., 42" chest & 34" waist. My first bag (still have & use it) is 58" around the shoulders. snug, but not confining. The WM Antelope is 62" at the shoulders and 53" at the hips (same cut as the Versalite) and feels spacious to me. The Alpinlite would seem huge but I'm not a big person.
If interior room is a concern, look at the WM Sycamore 25 degree bag (http://www.westernmountaineering.com/index.cfm?section=products&page=Sleeping%20Bags&cat=Microfiber%20Series&ContentId=21).
Sleep well.
Wayne
Forgot: Look at the new Terralite (http://www.westernmountaineering.com/index.cfm?section=products&page=Sleeping%20Bags&cat=ExtremeLite%20Series&ContentId=91) as well for a roomy cut.
Wayne
double d
03-03-2014, 09:37
I do not own any FF gear, but I will say that WM produces some outstanding bags, very well made and true to the specs of each bag. With that said, I know many people who find FF to be a company of equal value as well. T-Rx, you can not go wrong with either company's gear, of course they are both expense to buy from. Others here are giving you some good advice.
Measured in terms of decades of service, sleeping bags of this caliber are very economical.
Buy quality once.
Wayne
I hate to keep starting a new post every time I remember some more information.
The weight of the Alpinlite listed online is incorrect. The hang tag I saw at my local dealer is correct: Weight = 2 pounds 1 ounce. It makes sense. If you compare the fill weight of the Ultralite and the Alpinlite, + 3 ounces, the total weight of the Alpinlite can not be 1 pound 15 ounces that is listed online.
Wayne
Thanks to all for the great and helpful info. I have never heard anyone say anything negative about WM bags but I have heard or read very little regarding FF bags. I am 6'4", 210lbs., 48" chest, 36" waist and am primarily a side sleeper so the bags with a little more shoulder and torso room are of interest to me. I also would like a bag that will completely unzip so it can be used as a top quilt during warmer months. I am looking for a bag that will be suitable for a thru hike as well. Venchka, thanks for the suggestions regarding the WM Sycamore and Terralite. They both look good and roomy and I think the 25 degree rating will still be sufficient for the AT. However, I was unable to find a temp. rating for the Terralite on the WM website. Any idea what the temp. rating is on this bag?
Tipi Walter
03-03-2014, 10:18
As others have said, you can't go wrong with either brand. I have a WM Puma bag and it's my go-to winter bag and rated at -15F. See below pic which was taken on a recent 21 day February trip. I also have a Feathered Friends Icefall down parka and it is outstanding and keeps me alive thruout winter around camp.
The main criteria is shell material and quality of down and fill weight (as in how many ounces of down is inside your bag). WM has a microfiber shell which I really like.
http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/21-Days-in-the-Snow/i-KGK3f5c/0/L/TRIP%20153%20288-L.jpg
Here's the WM microfiber Puma bag on Slickrock Creek/BMT a couple weeks ago.
My FF is about 19 years old and still does the job, it is my only bag
Thanks to all for the great and helpful info. I have never heard anyone say anything negative about WM bags but I have heard or read very little regarding FF bags. I am 6'4", 210lbs., 48" chest, 36" waist and am primarily a side sleeper so the bags with a little more shoulder and torso room are of interest to me. I also would like a bag that will completely unzip so it can be used as a top quilt during warmer months. I am looking for a bag that will be suitable for a thru hike as well. Venchka, thanks for the suggestions regarding the WM Sycamore and Terralite. They both look good and roomy and I think the 25 degree rating will still be sufficient for the AT. However, I was unable to find a temp. rating for the Terralite on the WM website. Any idea what the temp. rating is on this bag?
The Terralite is new (it appeared online in the last few weeks) and frankly, WM info online is skimpy. I would call WM (408-287-8944) and ask for more specific details on the Terralite.
Tipi Walter is correct about the WM microfiber shell material. It is strong and lightweight. A bit heavier than the ExtremeLite series, but very durable and breathable. A very few extra ounces in the shell versus increased durability. Tough choice.
Wayne
RE: Terralite. I found this from ProLite Gear in Bozeman, Montana. Looks like a 25 degree bag and really big. Watch the video.
http://www.prolitegear.com/western-mountaineering-terralite.html
Wayne
I'm 6'4", med build, 34" waist, 47" chest, size 14 shoe, currently 215 lbs but will be losing about 10 lbs shortly. All my sleeping bags are long length. I mainly sleep on my side turning from side to side all night long. I'm more concerned about taking an accurately temp rated sleeping bag 10*+ below it's lower temp rating rather than utilizing a 20* rated sleeping bag with any regularity when it's 40*+ when I'm sleeping. I'm an ULer. I'm comfortable in a snug sleeping bag. Took some time getting to that place though. I currently own a WM 10* Versalite(63/54/39), WM 35* Highlite(60/52/38) and a FF 20* Swallow UL(60/56/38) in regards to your company choices and bags close to or at your 20* goal. I used to own a WM 20* Ultralite(60/52/38). Being a side sleeper I do prefer the extra hip room in the FF 20* UL Swallow compared to the WM 20* Ultralite. Both are great bags IMO though. I say that because your two choices have a 2" difference at the hips. My bags are all a tighter fit than your choices - FF 20* Swift(64/58/40) or WM Alpinelite(65/56/39). My closest dimensioned bag to your choices is the WM Versalite(63/54/39) which I find roomy, almost too roomy unless I'm wearing down insulation inside the bag but again I'm a bit smaller across the shoulders and hips than you and I'm med framed and when I'm pushing my WM Versalite to -5* I can't afford to compromise my sleeping bag's or sleeping insulation's loft. If you're contemplating wearing lofty sleeping insulation regularly and want a bit looser dimensions, which you should want anyway because you're slightly larger than me, I think you are going down the right road with your WM Alpinelite and FF Swift choices. It sounds like either would work for you. I'm going to take a shot at your dimensions sight unseen and say, based on the info you provided, you shouldn't get a bag any smaller sized than 63/54/39.
BTW, I went with the FF 20* UL Swallow, which would prolly be too constrictive for you, over the WM Ultralite because 1) I saved 2 oz(yeah, I'm a gram weenie at times, the FF Swallow UL uses 900 down) 2) more hip room 3) packs a tiny bit smaller 4) I sleep equally warm at 20* in either(I compared both before I bought/replaced, BOTH companies have ACCURATE temp ratings!) 5) got a little discount on the FF swallow UL(they have a FF showroom in Seattle)
If you decide on the FF Swift, have the do re mi, and want to cut out 3 oz go for the UL Swift. It has the same dimensions as the Swift Nano. Really though, any bag you choose from either WM or FF is a great investment. With some reasonable care they last many yrs! IMHO, they are Top Notch sleeping bags providing less of a fiddle factor and oodles of warmth for those 20* temps.
As far as 20* sleeping bags that completely unzip, as far as I know, you're getting into top quilt territory. Enough info has already been shared that you might want to digest. If you go with Prolite, as Wayne linked, speak with Brad, he's a top notch gear geek that demos much of what ProLite sells. I've been very happy with all my purchases and customer service at Prolite. Hope that helps.
colorado_rob
03-03-2014, 12:44
I actually own and use four different WM bags, the Puma (-25/-32 degree rated, depending on shell material tipi, not -15), the -10 deg (forget the name), the 20 deg Ultralite (actually my wife's, a tad too tight for me, but I have used it for brief trips to minimize weight) and the 20 deg Alpinelite (more girth than the Ultralight, very very highly recommended, but 6-7 ounces heavier than the ultralite). I also owned and used a FF -5 degree (I think) bag I bought on Ebay, then sold to a friend because I needed a warmer bag (bought the WM Puma then). Really, both companies make excellent stuff, WM's do go on sale now and then, FF's hardly if ever. All my WM's have that microfiber shell, never had a single tear or even leaked down, and the shell seemed to perform as advertised.
While I agree with the desire for a full-zip bag in general, and *definitely* agree if it's your only bag, I will say that for my 20F and 10F rated WM bags I basically never fully unzip them, except in a motel if airing/drying them out. Because when conditions warrant I switch to my full-zip 30F rated bag, and THAT's the one that I find it helpful to fully unzip in warmer weather.
Tipi Walter
03-03-2014, 13:54
I actually own and use four different WM bags, the Puma (-25/-32 degree rated, depending on shell material tipi, not -15),
When I bought my Puma in 2005 it was rated at -15F. With the 4oz overfill it seems to be rated at -20F or -25F. Odd. Now WM says their standard Puma is rated to -25F. Why the discrepancy? See---(on the second link read the first review with the 4oz overfill AND the goretex shell increasing the rating number---so what's the rating before his 4oz overfill? Less than -25F ergo -15F).
http://www.vftt.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-9806.html
http://www.outdoorreview.com/cat/product-archives/outdoor-equipment/backpacking-camping-hiking/sleeping-bags/western-mountaineering/puma-super-dl/prd_79479_2956crx.aspx
While I agree with the desire for a full-zip bag in general, and *definitely* agree if it's your only bag, I will say that for my 20F and 10F rated WM bags I basically never fully unzip them, except in a motel if airing/drying them out. Because when conditions warrant I switch to my full-zip 30F rated bag, and THAT's the one that I find it helpful to fully unzip in warmer weather.
My thoughts as well. If zipper length options were available I'd opt for 1/2 or even 1/3 length zips on all my 20* and lower sleeping bags. It would work for me while saving another 1 oz or so too. I had a Valandre Mirage with the very short 1/4 length zip and liked it. I wish more sleeping bag manufacturers, particularly the UL companies, offered 1/2 and 1/4 length zip options.
Awesome info. folks. Thanks! Dogwood, it seems like you and I are comparable in body sizes but no so much in our gram counting obsessions (at least not yet for me). Your input on this was very helpful as it sounds like you have a lot of experience with WM. It seems as though I can't go wrong with either bag. I am leaning toward the WM because I have actually seen and held one at a local outfitter and I have never seen a FF bag in a retail store. Regarding the full zip option, it is not a necessity. I have a top quilt that I can switch to in warmer months if needed. I was thinking of the possibility of using a single bag for the entire AT when I mentioned that option. Thanks!
Hey, it's a team effort. I do have a 20* GoLite sewn footbox down quilt that I wish opened flat so I could use it as an UQ for hammocking(maybe I could just haven't figured it out yet). Instead, my Enlightened Equipment 50 * Climashield quilt lays completely flat and I'll use that as both a TQ and UQ in hammocking and possibly in combination with a UL down sleeping bag for when it gets -10*. With the way I sleep and gear up I'm shying away from quilts when the temps get consistently below 30*. I'll stick with a conventional highest end UL sleeping bag when the temps get that cold. That's just me though.
With the way I sleep and gear up I'm shying away from *stand alone* quilts when the temps get consistently below 30*. I'll stick with a conventional highest end UL sleeping bag when the temps get that cold. I wanna sleep not shiver!
.. I am leaning toward the WM because I have actually seen and held one at a local outfitter ... Thanks!
I have that luxury as well. I have briefly eyeballed the Ultralite and Alpinlite at my local dealer. Before plunking down a pile of money, I will crawl in both of them. Then stuff each in my Rivendell pack to make sure they fit ok. It will probably come down to a coin toss.
Wayne
colorado_rob
03-03-2014, 19:13
When I bought my Puma in 2005 it was rated at -15F. With the 4oz overfill it seems to be rated at -20F or -25F. Odd. Now WM says their standard Puma is rated to -25F. Why the discrepancy? See---(on the second link read the first review with the 4oz overfill AND the goretex shell increasing the rating number---so what's the rating before his 4oz overfill? Less than -25F ergo -15F).
http://www.vftt.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-9806.html
http://www.outdoorreview.com/cat/product-archives/outdoor-equipment/backpacking-camping-hiking/sleeping-bags/western-mountaineering/puma-super-dl/prd_79479_2956crx.aspx I have no idea what you're saying here, even after reading those reviews, but I too bought mine in 2005 for a Denali climb, no overfill, same weight as the specified current "-25F" Puma with the same microfiber shell. I slept a couple nights up at high camp in the -25 to -30 degree range and was never close to being cold, so that rating is accurate in my book as I'm a "medium sleeper". After nearly 10 years of use, maybe 100 bitter cold nights I see no degradation at all in loft, though there has to be some small amount as I've never washed it.
Perhaps WM eased up on their over-conservatism in temp ratings over the years and bumped rating to -25? I seem to remember it was indeed rated at -20 when I bought it. Hard to be competitive with some manufacturers who make wild claims. Buy Western Mountaineering, you won't be sorry.
Wanted to bring this to your attention. Aaron, over at TrailGroove has a WM Alpinelite and WM 30* Megalite, with the dimensions that would prolly work for you, T Rx, for sale. Alpinelite, he's asking $390 and $230 for the Megalite. IMO, the Megalite has a solid 30* temp rating. He's one of the founders and regular contributors of Trail groove. I've seen several pieces of gear he has sold all of which seem to have been treated reasonably decent. You might want to make him an offer. You might get him to move just bit on the price.
In the never ending Feathered Friends vs. Western Mountaineering debate, all else being equal, both the WM Ultralite and Alpinlite have WM's wonderful, adjustable, full collar just like their much colder rated bags. A very definite PLUS! advantage.
Puma: Older catalogs listed the loft at 8 1/2". Current loft is listed at 9". That would account for some, but not all, of the change in temperature rating. The other change is the gradual increase in down loft from 750, when I bought my Antelope in the mid-90s, to the current 850+ that WM is using. Regardless of the numbers in a catalog, if Rob says it worked for him on Denali and Tipi Walter says it worked for him during the recent Polar Vortex, that is proof enough for me. Not that I ever expect to need a Puma.
In a similar bit of marketing shift, when I bought my Antelope it was listed at 7" loft with 26 ounces of 750 down and 0 degree temperature rating. Today, with the same 26 ounces of 850 down and the same 7" loft, the bag is rated at 5 degrees. Go figure.
Wayne
daddytwosticks
03-05-2014, 08:27
Wanted to bring this to your attention. Aaron, over at TrailGroove has a WM Alpinelite and WM 30* Megalite, with the dimensions that would prolly work for you, T Rx, for sale. Alpinelite, he's asking $390 and $230 for the Megalite. IMO, the Megalite has a solid 30* temp rating. He's one of the founders and regular contributors of Trail groove. I've seen several pieces of gear he has sold all of which seem to have been treated reasonably decent. You might want to make him an offer. You might get him to move just bit on the price. Both WM bags (Alpinelite and Megalite) are awesome sleeping bags. I previously owned the Alpinelite and now own the Megalite. Works of art. :)
I have the Alpinlite with overfill. Best for me, I need the extra girth inside the bag. I have 3 WM bags, for me, bag for life.....
I can't add anything to the specifics of the decision that haven't already been stated. What I will say is that both brands are wonderfully well made. I've owned a FF Snowbunting (0*) for maybe 12 years now and a WM Summerlite for around 6. Both are comfortable below their rated temperatures and the quality is as good as it gets.
Thanks again to everyone for their insights and experiences with these bags. I checked my local outfitter and they unfortunately do not have any long length WM bags in stock and are not real encouraging with their responses on ordering a bag for me. WM also does not allow you to order direct from the company so you must go thru a retail dealer. FF on the other hand has direct from manufacturer ordering (on line or phone) and also provides easy to access customer service on their website. WM offers neither of these options on their website. I believe that both the WM and FF bags are excellent products but FF sure does make it easy to order their product and contact them for any assistance needed. Tough decision!
Thanks again to everyone for their insights and experiences with these bags. I checked my local outfitter and they unfortunately do not have any long length WM bags in stock and are not real encouraging with their responses on ordering a bag for me. WM also does not allow you to order direct from the company so you must go thru a retail dealer. FF on the other hand has direct from manufacturer ordering (on line or phone) and also provides easy to access customer service on their website. WM offers neither of these options on their website. I believe that both the WM and FF bags are excellent products but FF sure does make it easy to order their product and contact them for any assistance needed. Tough decision!
If you're heading towards VA any time before you need to order, look me up. You're welcome to take a close look at the bags I've got.
Berserker
03-05-2014, 13:15
I'll throw my 2 cents in on this and plug the WM Alpinlite. Although I have not yet slept in it (I just got it), I have about 120 nights on my Caribou, which is of the same dimensions as the Alpinlite. I have also used an Ultralite and a Versalite. I prefer the larger girth that the dimensions of the Caribou and Alpinlite offer.
I checked my local outfitter and they unfortunately do not have any long length WM bags in stock and are not real encouraging with their responses on ordering a bag for me.
I bought mine from a local outfitter. It had to be ordered, and the guy there just told me that a lot of the bags are made when ordered. So perhaps that is why the response wasn't encouraging? All I know is I had to wait about 2 weeks, but since I didn't have any trips planned anytime soon...whatever.
WM bags are everywhere on the internet. Backcountry Gear (I am a happy customer), Backcountry, Moosejaw, Moontrail to name a few I have visted lately. FF also clearly states online that delivery can take 2-3 weeks depending on which bag, color and size you want.
Be that as it may, I would never make a purchase this important by clicking a mouse online. A phone call or three would be my shopping plan of choice.
Good luck.
Wayne