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Big Dawg
09-12-2005, 23:15
Do you hammock users sleep in the same diagonal position every time or do you switch up?

neo
09-12-2005, 23:23
most of the time i sleep the same way,which what i have found most comfortable,but any postition in a hammock is more comfortable than any postition on the ground:cool: neo

attroll
09-12-2005, 23:48
I have always slept the same way. But when I set my HH up in the yard the other day to try out my new JRB under quilt I tried laying in the opposite diaganol postion and I am going to try that this weekend when I sleep out on a trip I am going on. It seemed to be more comfortable.

What diagonal postion does everyone else sleep in? I have slept in mine with my head to the left and my feet to the right.

Seeker
09-13-2005, 01:12
the way the HH backpacker asym is set up, you can only lay diagonally one way... head to the left of center, feet to the right... but you can lay on either side or on your back from that position...

Just Jeff
09-13-2005, 02:50
Every now and then I switch in the HH with my head and feet on the small side, but only for a short time so I can sleep on my left side. For some reason I always feel like I'm sliding if I sleep on my left side facing the other way.

In my homemade Speer, I generally end up the same way as the HH is aligned no matter which side I'm on. Odd.

Smile
09-13-2005, 06:05
Do you sleep in a constant curve in a hammock? From the photos it seems like it always 'banana' curved just a bit.

This idea is sort of keeping me from going this route, I'd like to hear more about the actual sleeping benefits - may choose a HH other than a new tent.....

rpettit
09-13-2005, 06:13
I sleep in the same diagonal on my back, either side or fetal position. Much better than sleeping on the ground.

peter_pan
09-13-2005, 08:12
Smile,

Once you use the diagonal you are amazingly flat...like the malayan indians...there may still be some minor curve as most of us are a little tall....longer hammocks lay flatter, as do wider hammocks...up to a point...The comfort is supreme...some folk use two pillows, one normally and one under the knees to put a flex in the knees, sorta like being in a laid back recliner...

Find a way to test a few hammocks out...you'll be qickly converted.

Pan

Youngblood
09-13-2005, 09:32
Big Dog... The Asym models of the Hennessy Hammocks are designed for you to sleep on the same diagonal position every time. Most of the HH models use the Asym design.

Smile... Hammockers sometimes say that they sleep flat in their hammocks. What they should say is that some hammocks allow you to sleep much flatter than the traditional banana shape associated with hammocks because they are designed such that when you lay off center your feet drop and your shoulders drop, thus flattening you out some. Not all hammocks have this design feature but you are not laying flat even in the ones that do, you are laying flatter. Most people find this very comfortable... but I wouldn't think that everyone would. You sometimes introduce a mild shoulder squeeze and a mild rotational torque on your body when you lay this way and you might have injuries that this aggrevates or just not find it comfortable. Your best bet is to try out a few hammocks and see for yourself... and that is a major problem for most folks because they don't have the opportunety. Ed Speer of Speer Hammocks has been hosting informal hammock campouts in the southeast for a while and is good way to see some of this first hand. There is one on the 23rd to 25th of this month in Hot Springs, NC. All types of hammocks are welcome as well as tenters. Of course Ed will have his hammocks and usually there are HHs as well as homemade hammocks. It just depends on who decides to come and what they bring.

Youngblood

Big Dawg
09-13-2005, 11:40
Every now and then I switch in the HH with my head and feet on the small side,
What do you mean, "small side"? Isn't the entry/slit in the center (comparing from side to side) at foot end?,, which would mean both sides are the same. Help me out here. I'm all new to this stuff. From my collection of hammock data, I thought "asymmetrical" simply meant I was able to lay more flat. Does it also have to do w/ which side of center my feet/head are on?

Big Dawg
09-13-2005, 11:43
Big Dog... The Asym models of the Hennessy Hammocks are designed for you to sleep on the same diagonal position every time. Most of the HH models use the Asym design.
YoungbloodDesigned how??

Just Jeff
09-13-2005, 12:25
Imagine a trapezoid, with the centerline of the hammock connecting the farthest corners. That's the rough idea of the Asym.

On one side of the entry slit, a tie-out pulls on the corner where you put your feet. There is more space on that side of the slit for your feet.

On the other side, on the corner near your shoulders, a tie-out pulls the hammock in the other direction.

If you were to lay exactly down the centerline of the HH Asym, you'll have more room to the right of your feet and the left of your shoulders...meaning you should lay that way to get flatter (which, ironically enough, puts your body diagonal across the centerline).

Clear as mud?

dougmeredith
09-13-2005, 12:31
I thought "asymmetrical" simply meant I was able to lay more flat. Does it also have to do w/ which side of center my feet/head are on?
Yes that is exactly what it means. There is more space for the upper body on the left and for the lower body on the right.

Doug

Seeker
09-13-2005, 13:32
big dog...

get a sheet of paper. now lay a pencil in the middle, going the long way... pick up the short ends... pencil wants to slip sideways, right? doesn't want to bend in the middle...

now lay the pencil going across the short way... pick up the paper by the lower left and upper right corners and see if you can sort of 'twist' the paper to move the pencil so that it lays more the long way... those corners are the hammock's support ropes... the paper is still hanging in a curve, like a banana, but your pencil/body is laying mostly flat... why? the non-held corners (upper left and lower right) are where hennessy puts a tie out, to give you more head and foot room... in order to make the pencil lie the other way, you hve to change where the ropes and diagonal tie outs go... since you can't, you sort of have to lay head left of and feet right of center... you can lay on either side, though i find the left side most comfortable...

probably clear as mud, but that's how i explain it to people in the office when they find out i don't sleep on the ground... hope it helps.

titanium_hiker
09-13-2005, 15:35
in my homemade speer type I sleep which ever way I feel like at the time- I don't think I have a preference. Oh, but in my yard I have to hand from tree to clothesline, clothesline end is higher (foot end then) and I like to put my head to the left.

titanium

Big Dawg
09-13-2005, 16:09
Just Jeff, Dougmeredith, & Seeker,,,,,,,, clear as mud? the mud's pretty clear to me,,, thanks guys!!! I understand now. :)

D'Artagnan
09-13-2005, 16:25
I am a somewhat restless sleeper. I have awaken from my HH to find myself on my side, my back, curled up in a fetal position, and even on my stomach. I have to concur with the majority of those who posted that no matter what position you sleep in, the hammock is definitely more comfortable than the ground or the floor of a shelter. It is very important though, in my experience, to get the hammock as level as possible or you will migrate to the lower end. I've enjoyed every night I've spent in my HH and think it's a bargain at twice the price.

titanium_hiker
09-13-2005, 16:32
actually D'Artagnan (haven't seen you for a while!) a higher foot end is more comfortable, esp. for a hh. Guys have they're center of gravity at the chest, so they seem to feel uncomfortable at completely level. the foot end should be slightly higher- even for girls!

SteveJ
09-13-2005, 18:50
Do you sleep in a constant curve in a hammock? From the photos it seems like it always 'banana' curved just a bitHi, smile. You don't feel like you're sleeping in a banana position, even though it seems that every pic of a hammocker looks like there's a banana shape. My wife and I have slept in a water bed since we were married. Laying on my back in a waterbed, the main part of my body is lowest in the bed, with my head, legs and feet slightly elevated. When I'm in my HH, I feel like I'm sleeping in a very similar position. If I lay flat on my back in my hammock, with my feet extended, there is a little extra pressure on the knees, implying that there is a slight banana shaped curve. I usually just slightly bend my knees, which brings my feet in a little and relieves the pressure... this is also one of the reasons i usually use a quilt in a hammock

Steve

Smile
09-13-2005, 21:49
Ok, excellent information. What's the total weight usually for a top notch hammock? The sound of quilts and pillows is sounding bulky. But I'm hearing that many of you really dig them - I should go to one of the camp outs and try for myself ;-)

Just Jeff
09-13-2005, 23:25
HH UL BP is 31 oz including hammock, bugnet, fly, tree huggers and supports. All you need is two stakes.

The Speer 8.0 is about 32 oz IIRC, with a removable bugnet and an 8x10 fly, which seems cavernous for a hammock, IMO...lots more living space than the stock HH.

FWIW, I think Speers are more comfy while the HH is more convenient (because of the attached bugnet...but that's negated in cold weather when you can leave the Speer bugnet at home and save the weight).

Pillows: don't you carry clothes? Put them in a stuff sack and they're no more bulky than...um...the clothes you're already carrying in a stuff sack.

Quilts replace sleeping bags. Think of how big a stuffed sleeping bag is. My JRB quilts both stuff to 7"x7"x7" cube. A 30F bag probably stuff smaller than 7"x7"x14", but not too much smaller.

Underquilts replace pads, and are much less bulky to pack.

A PeaPod replaces a quilt, underquilt and pad from ~40F-75F, and stuffs to 12"x17.5" according to the website...I assume that means 12" diameter circle by 17.5" long. So for the bulk of a sleeping pad, you get total insulation.

Seeker
09-14-2005, 00:15
"But I'm hearing that many of you really dig them - I should go to one of the camp outs and try for myself ;-)"

YES! DO IT!

my HH weighs about 36 oz with the addition of 4 stakes, 2 large aluminum caribiners to tie it off with, and two mini-biners inside to hold stuff... so about 5 oz more than when i got it...

if you don't like the feel of silnylon on your face, get a small piece of fleece about the size of your sleeping bag stuff sack when it's laid out flat and sew it on one side... makes a great pillow when stuffed with clothes... i find that with the curved side of the hammock to lean up against, i only need a small pillow to be really comfortable...

i've got a lightweight down bag (WM Caribou, 20oz) that i usually just throw over me, barely zipped at the bottom for a foot box... haven't gotten the JRB underquilt yet, but that's this year's christmas present... i hope.

once you've tried it, you won't go back... i sleep better in my hammock than i do in my own bed, and i have a pretty comfortable foam mattress...

titanium_hiker
09-14-2005, 07:59
check out my hammock weights thread- 2lbs ~ is about it. (hh)

titanium

orangebug
09-14-2005, 10:39
What's the total weight usually for a top notch hammock? The sound of quilts and pillows is sounding bulky. The quilts and such can be bulky, especially if you also use some level of sleeping bag inside the hammock. For winter camping, the hammock requires a lot of planning and equipment. I've kept my Wanderlust Nomad tent specifically for that, but use a 8X10 tarp, peapod, blue Target pad trimmed to fit and a fleece sleeping bag for other times of the year. I often carry a bit of Tyvek for a ground cloth/dry walking area. This does get into a bit more weight than tent, ground cloth and sleeping bag with pad, but is much more comfortable for sleep.

Smee
09-14-2005, 13:45
The quilts and such can be bulky, especially if you also use some level of sleeping bag inside the hammock. For winter camping, the hammock requires a lot of planning and equipment. I've kept my Wanderlust Nomad tent specifically for that, but use a 8X10 tarp, peapod, blue Target pad trimmed to fit and a fleece sleeping bag for other times of the year. I often carry a bit of Tyvek for a ground cloth/dry walking area. This does get into a bit more weight than tent, ground cloth and sleeping bag with pad, but is much more comfortable for sleep.

A JRB "Nest" Under Quilt that compresses to a 7"x7"x7" cube is not near as bulky as a Target Blue Pad!

orangebug
09-14-2005, 14:38
Few things are as bulky as rolled up closed cell pads - Target, Ridgerest and other sources. You can carry them tied to the back pack, or rolled up inside the backpack to give it shape and some cushion - similar to the GVP pack's use of Z-rests.

There are conveniences and compromises in all of our equipment. I like having a pad between me and the fabric of the hammock, as it seems to become a heat sink if I don't use it.

Just Jeff
09-14-2005, 16:29
a pad between me and the fabric of the hammock, as it seems to become a heat sink if I don't use it.

The fabric itself isn't a heat sink.

A pad conducts and stores heat. Any insulation under you (like an underquilt or PeaPod) conducts and stores heat, assuming there are no air gaps between the hammock fabric and the insulation. We just had a pretty technical thread about this over at Sgt Rock's, if you're interested.

But as you said, there are trade-offs in all equipment. I find sleeping directly on the hammock fabric much more comfortable than sleeping on a pad.

titanium_hiker
09-14-2005, 17:28
But as you said, there are trade-offs in all equipment. I find sleeping directly on the hammock fabric much more comfortable than sleeping on a pad.
and sleeping with a pad in the pocket still sucks.

titanium

Seeker
09-14-2005, 17:29
just a small addition, spurred by orangebug's post: i sometimes carry a small square of blue foam pad, about a foot or so, for use as a seat during the day and 'welcome mat' under my hammock door/slit at night. doesn't weigh much, keeps rain off my pack, and i can use it as a sort of kitchen counter while cooking, etc...

titanium_hiker
09-14-2005, 17:31
the foam is a good idea- I'm planning on getting my hands on one. Also if you have to sleep in a shelter (during a real gully washer etc) then you have some padding.

titanium

Seeker
09-14-2005, 17:39
well, the little one won't do any good to sleep on, but the larger one can do double duty in a shelter. i try not to go anywhere i can't hang a hammock though... speaking of gully washers, i strap the small pad over the top of my pack (gust-it has no flap, just one strap over the rolled up collar) and it provides a bit of rain protection... keeps it handy for sitting on too... or kneeling on if i find an interesting bug or flower or something...

titanium_hiker
09-14-2005, 18:35
a little one would be fine I'm thinking (not for warmth I guess) for padding for my hips or shoulders on a hard floor.

titanium

Seeker
09-14-2005, 20:47
yeah... go ahead... waste that youth...LOL :D

at my age and condition, i need deep padding from head to heels... wouldn't work for me anymore... but i see what you mean...

Big Dawg
09-15-2005, 17:34
OK, so most people sleep in the HH (based on the asym design) w/ head left of center, & feet right of center. If I'm going to make my own synthetic underquilt, & am not going to use it for anything other than an underquilt, then is it really necessary to have complete insulation on the head-end right of center, & foot-end left of center (basically where by body will not be laying)?

titanium_hiker
09-15-2005, 18:08
rough quote: "your body was not given to you with the expectation that it would be returned in the same condition. You are expected to come sliding (skidding) to a halt, screaming 'man, what a ride!' "

it's up to you Big Dog, but you are restricting your movements, also, (not as big in the hh) side insulation, and cold air is your enemy...

wasting my youth...
titanium

Patrick
09-15-2005, 21:16
Big Dog,

I would not recommend doing that. I made one that is cut to fit the HH ULB and I think smaller than that would really limit you. I almost always lie on the diagonal, but sometimes I just lay on my back about in the middle. Also, usually my legs are on the right side, but sometimes they're kind of splayed out all over.

I think having the "floor space" in the hammock, but having to keep off some of it is too limiting and you'd regret not having the full coverage insulation.

I think you could do it, but that you'd be sacrificing a lot of that world-famous hammock comfort for not much gain in weight savings.

If you try it, though, be sure to let us know how it went.

Seeker
09-16-2005, 01:10
Big Dog,

i'd have to agree with patrick... i guess it all depends on how you sleep (still vs thrasher), but to make the underquilt any narrower, you'd be stealing from those areas you might roll onto at night... now that i think about it, i can't recall my feet ever moving to the left, but i definitely have rolled to the right, come off my pad, and woke up to the cold touch of the uninsulated side of the hammock... i'd leave it full width and be comfortable...

TH- i'm familiar with the quote... one of my favorites... but knowing what i know now, i'd still have taken better care of my body, especially knees and back, when i was younger... waste it carefully...

Just Jeff
09-16-2005, 03:49
Agree with Patrick and Seeker. You might save a few ounces, but you'll also restrict your sleep and risk being uncomfortable.

If you're a very still sleeper, give it a try. Or make one out of a $10 Coleman fleece bag from Walmart just to get the fit right. That'll be enough to tell a difference in how much you'll be able to move around and still be on the underquilt.

The JRB is 78"x48" and I find it suitable. It could probably give up a few inches and still be functional, but I like being able to toss and turn and not worry about where the insulation is.

Big Dawg
09-16-2005, 06:56
Thanks all!!! :clap