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Odd Man Out
03-05-2014, 17:14
Went shopping for summer-weight long hiking/travel pants at our local outdoor activity outfitter today. Ended up getting the Kuhl Kontra Pants. Spent more than I wanted but I wanted to support our local outfitter.

Afterwards, I went downstairs to look at their backpacking gear. The salesman asked what I needed. I told him I was just browsing as I was pretty well set for my backpacking trip this summer. I asked if they sold Keen shoes as my current pair of Voyageurs might wear out before July. He was concerned, telling me that these shoes were not really designed for backpacking and they would only be good for wearing around town or on day hikes. I was abut to ask (rhetorically) why it is then that so many people thru-hike the AT in trail runners, which are less substantial than what I have, but then decided to just let it go. Ug.

26219

The Snowman
03-05-2014, 18:16
ultra lite hiking is why many hikers wear trail runners nowadays you will be fine most likely

Just Bill
03-05-2014, 18:21
Conventional wisdom leads to conventional answers.
The Odd Man Out is unconcerned with convention.
I'm more concerned you bought pants instead of a skirt. :D

rafe
03-05-2014, 18:24
Funny how our conventional wisdom changes over time, from big heavy Peter Limmer leather boots to... glorified sneakers.

1234
03-05-2014, 18:27
My exp says the salesmen is correct. I love my Keens, I have 2 pair, both fell apart, I mean literally the outtersoul came unglued from the rubber and the entire rubber soul came off the leather, both hi tops and the low tops. I have found nothing that will glue them back together. Keen has by far the best toe box for me and nothing compares, I wish I could find some type of glue that would keep them together.

saltysack
03-05-2014, 18:27
I live keens but since switching to trail runners ie lasportiva wildcats


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saltysack
03-05-2014, 18:29
Ooops..no more blisters w trail runners and I'm 5'11" 220 and carry 25 lb pack


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bfayer
03-05-2014, 18:31
Went shopping for summer-weight long hiking/travel pants at our local outdoor activity outfitter today. Ended up getting the Kuhl Kontra Pants. Spent more than I wanted but I wanted to support our local outfitter.

Afterwards, I went downstairs to look at their backpacking gear. The salesman asked what I needed. I told him I was just browsing as I was pretty well set for my backpacking trip this summer. I asked if they sold Keen shoes as my current pair of Voyageurs might wear out before July. He was concerned, telling me that these shoes were not really designed for backpacking and they would only be good for wearing around town or on day hikes. I was abut to ask (rhetorically) why it is then that so many people thru-hike the AT in trail runners, which are less substantial than what I have, but then decided to just let it go. Ug.

26219

I am from Michigan and still have land and a cabin up north. If the outfitter you went to is in MI, the answer does not surprise me at all. The odds that someone working there has done any real backpacking is small. Don't get me wrong I have no doubt they have other kinds of outdoor experience, but probably not long distance hiking.

Now ask them about snow shoeing or kayaking, and you are all set :)

Odd Man Out
03-05-2014, 18:52
Conventional wisdom leads to conventional answers.
The Odd Man Out is unconcerned with convention.
I'm more concerned you bought pants instead of a skirt. :D

Didn't see any skirts, at least on the men's side of the store.

Another Kevin
03-05-2014, 20:13
I'm more concerned you bought pants instead of a skirt. :D

The word is kilt. It's called that because that's what you'll get if you call it a skirt in the presence of a Scotsman.

Tuckahoe
03-05-2014, 20:31
The word is kilt. It's called that because that's what you'll get if you call it a skirt in the presence of a Scotsman.

Like Culloden? :D










(Sorry for the serious thread drift)

Southeast
03-05-2014, 21:26
I had a similar experience with trail runners at REI.
I figured it was the salesman probably assuming I had a ginormous pack.
Later on the Web I read the following on the manufactures page
" The Cascadia 9 is intended as a trail running shoe. It is not pack-rated and may not hold up to the extra weight and demands of long pack hikes. We’re your go-to option for trail runs, but a sturdy hiking boot would be better suited for the Pacific Crest Trail, Appalachian Trail, or other long pack trips.'

I still got the shoes.

Malto
03-05-2014, 23:07
I had a similar experience with trail runners at REI.
I figured it was the salesman probably assuming I had a ginormous pack.
Later on the Web I read the following on the manufactures page
" The Cascadia 9 is intended as a trail running shoe. It is not pack-rated and may not hold up to the extra weight and demands of long pack hikes. We’re your go-to option for trail runs, but a sturdy hiking boot would be better suited for the Pacific Crest Trail, Appalachian Trail, or other long pack trips.'

I still got the shoes.

Wow, I guess if I hike the PCT again I will not use my favorite BPing shoes, the Cascadias. It a shame, they seemed to hold up to the PA AT just fine. Wonder what it is about the PCT that make it a problem. Hmmm?

Hrdlee
03-06-2014, 10:46
My Keens fell apart on me walking around town.

Odd Man Out
03-06-2014, 10:56
My Keens fell apart on me walking around town.

Odd that people have problem with Keens. I like mine just fine. Been wearing them every day for the better part of a year. The only problem is I have a very boney heel and I wear out the back of the heel cup. When it gets to the hard plastic, it rubs against my heel and I get a callus the makes the protrusion even more prominent. I've tried adding extra padding there, but nothing stays put. It seems to happen with every kind of shoe I wear (athletic shoes too). Overall, I'd say my Keens are holding up better than my last two trail shoes which were slightly different versions of Merrell Ventilators.

Rain Man
03-06-2014, 10:57
... my Keens, I have 2 pair, both fell apart, I mean literally the outtersoul came unglued from the rubber and the entire rubber soul came off the leather, both hi tops and the low tops. I have found nothing that will glue them back together.

Gotta agree. Keen design and glue sucks. I returned two pair I think, one after the other, to REI as each began coming unglued within a couple of months of light use.

Over the course of years and hikes, I have gone from full leather (inside and out) Vasques through several down-sizing iterations down to my present New Balance "trail runners" and expect to stick with them as long as the model is still manufactured. New Balance has always been a manufacturer that fits my feet best, ever since my much younger road racing days, when they first came out.

I actually took my current NB pair hiking the first time as camp and ford shoes on a rugged hike with lots of stream fords, but they worked so well, I never put on my "real" and more expensive Patagonia hiking shoes the whole trip, and have not looked back.

Rain Man

.

icemanat95
03-06-2014, 11:15
I wear Keen work boots for some of the work I do. They hold up pretty good. Two seasons of Industrial Weed Control work on them without major issues. Though I'm starting to feel something a bit uncomfortable in the innersole. Keen makes a nice steel toe boot. Too heavy for what you are talking about, but anything that can hold up to what I dish out to work gear is impressive. 250 dollar Red Wing logger boots only last three to six months before the thorns cut holes in the leather, the Keens actually hold up better.


Odd that people have problem with Keens. I like mine just fine. Been wearing them every day for the better part of a year. The only problem is I have a very boney heel and I wear out the back of the heel cup. When it gets to the hard plastic, it rubs against my heel and I get a callus the makes the protrusion even more prominent. I've tried adding extra padding there, but nothing stays put. It seems to happen with every kind of shoe I wear (athletic shoes too). Overall, I'd say my Keens are holding up better than my last two trail shoes which were slightly different versions of Merrell Ventilators.

88BlueGT
03-06-2014, 15:10
My exp says the salesmen is correct. I love my Keens, I have 2 pair, both fell apart, I mean literally the outtersoul came unglued from the rubber and the entire rubber soul came off the leather, both hi tops and the low tops. I have found nothing that will glue them back together. Keen has by far the best toe box for me and nothing compares, I wish I could find some type of glue that would keep them together.

Sounds like my North Face boots. I did love them though; when they were in one piece.

lemon b
03-07-2014, 01:53
Everybody's feet are different. Wear what is comfortable.

Teacher & Snacktime
03-07-2014, 20:53
My exp says the salesmen is correct. I love my Keens, I have 2 pair, both fell apart, I mean literally the outtersoul came unglued from the rubber and the entire rubber soul came off the leather, both hi tops and the low tops. I have found nothing that will glue them back together. Keen has by far the best toe box for me and nothing compares, I wish I could find some type of glue that would keep them together.

Have you tried mixing an epoxy? If nothing store bought works, and you haven't tried it yet, I should be able to get you instructions.

saltysack
03-08-2014, 19:37
Barge cement held my keens together ... Keen has great customer service... Call they will replace within 1 yr


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Toolshed
03-09-2014, 00:21
Wow!!! I feel like this thread is a throwback to 1999 or 2000. I thought most started giving up their heavy hiking boots about then? right about the time of the New balance 801 craze....? I still have a pair of heavy backpacking boots, not stitchdowns, but FGL just the same. I rarely ever wear them, preferring my NB812's (or 13's?? Can't keep track anymore) for any kind of backpacking excpet boot sucking adirondack mud :)

daimonpaul
03-09-2014, 12:16
I know someone who had two pairs of Keens that fell apart, both after less than 200 miles. It seems like a chronic issue.

Mags
03-09-2014, 13:23
I rarely ever wear them, preferring my NB812's (or 13's?? Can't keep track anymore) for any kind of backpacking excpet boot sucking adirondack mud :)

That's when I use my boots: mud and slushy conditions and/or trail work. But only for day use. Can't remember the last time I did some backpacking with them?

Coffee
03-09-2014, 13:30
Many of the "warnings" seem to be liability driven. The Brooks Cascadias, which I use and seem to be very popular, come with an explicit warning on the Brooks website:

Please note: The Cascadia is intended as a trail running shoe. It is not pack-rated and may not hold up to the extra weight and demands of long pack hikes. We’re your go-to option for trail runs, but a sturdy hiking boot would be better suited for the Pacific Crest Trail, Appalachian Trail, or other long pack trips.

Obviously a large number of people simply ignore this type of warning. I try to ignore lawyers in real life as much as possible and do the same when it comes to gear purchases instead relying on my common sense, experience of others, and personal experience to make decisions.

atbackpacker
03-09-2014, 21:44
Funny how our conventional wisdom changes over time, from big heavy Peter Limmer leather boots to... glorified sneakers.
they sure are heavy, but i love my limmers.

Sarcasm the elf
03-09-2014, 22:42
Many of the "warnings" seem to be liability driven. The Brooks Cascadias, which I use and seem to be very popular, come with an explicit warning on the Brooks website:

Please note: The Cascadia is intended as a trail running shoe. It is not pack-rated and may not hold up to the extra weight and demands of long pack hikes. We’re your go-to option for trail runs, but a sturdy hiking boot would be better suited for the Pacific Crest Trail, Appalachian Trail, or other long pack trips.

Obviously a large number of people simply ignore this type of warning. I try to ignore lawyers in real life as much as possible and do the same when it comes to gear purchases instead relying on my common sense, experience of others, and personal experience to make decisions.

Now that's funny! I had to go to the site myself to make sure that you weren't pulling our leg, but there it was plain as day.
http://www.brooksrunning.com/Cascadia-8/110133,default,pd.html

Though what I read into it is a bit different, to me it sounds more like a warranty disclaimer, something along the lines of "if you beat the piss out of our shoes doing things that they're not built to do, then don't expect us to replace them for free."

Drybones
03-10-2014, 08:24
Have you tried mixing an epoxy? If nothing store bought works, and you haven't tried it yet, I should be able to get you instructions.

The toe piece comes loose on every pair of shoes I've used due to getting wet, the last pair was loose in two days, I repair them with epoxy, next time out I'll put a layer of epoxy over the toe before I leave home so hopefully they'll hold up better, with what a pair of shoes goes thru on the trail doubt any will hold up long, saw a hiker on the Pinhoti with a pair of all leather hunting type boots that were ripped almost in half at the angle from rocks.

SunnyWalker
03-10-2014, 10:31
I've had real good luck with Keens and recommend them for the toe box. Hike lots in them and never had them fall apart etc. I really enjoy them.

nu2hike
03-10-2014, 10:41
Before I switched to Inov-8 trail runners I used Keen Targhee's! On my first hike on the AT the heel came unglued! I was able to keep them together with duct tape for the remainder of my hike!
When I got home I contacted Keen. They requested a photo of the damage and after reviewing it they shipped me a new pair of boots and suggested I donate the old pair!
Their customer service is great, but what I don't understand is that if they know this is a design flaw and I believe they must. Why don't they fix it?

Kc Fiedler
03-10-2014, 10:51
I left a pair of keens in my closed car during mid summer heat and came back to it a couple days later. The soles had separated from the shoe because the glue had melted in the heat. Completely ruined a new pair of keens cause the glue couldn't hack it.

Pootz
03-10-2014, 11:03
I had a similar experience with trail runners at REI.
I figured it was the salesman probably assuming I had a ginormous pack.
Later on the Web I read the following on the manufactures page
" The Cascadia 9 is intended as a trail running shoe. It is not pack-rated and may not hold up to the extra weight and demands of long pack hikes. We’re your go-to option for trail runs, but a sturdy hiking boot would be better suited for the Pacific Crest Trail, Appalachian Trail, or other long pack trips.'

I still got the shoes.

I thur hike the AT in Brooks Cascadia's and had no problems. Went through 3 1/2 pairs, no blisters. I carried a 20-25 pound pack. I am a big fan of brooks shoes.

That being said everyone has to find the shoe sock combination that works for them.

Pootz 07

Odd Man Out
03-10-2014, 14:14
I thur hike the AT in Brooks Cascadia's and had no problems. Went through 3 1/2 pairs, no blisters. I carried a 20-25 pound pack. I am a big fan of brooks shoes....

Sorry to say, you are going to die. Just look at this page: http://www.bigskyfishing.com/hiking-gear/hiking-boots.shtm
Although this is written about Montana hiking, he extends this to all mountain hiking.

"What is wrong with you? Yeah, ok, sneakers and sandals work ok for a leisurely hike in a park, on a grassy trail or on a graded trail somewhere. But use them on rocks, in the mountains, miles from help? You see, ultimately, the vast majority of injuries that happen to people hiking in Montana isn't from people being eaten by bears, from getting lost or being mugged by a deranged backwoods drifter. No, the most common injury in Montana while hiking is twisted/broken ankles and legs - most of which were preventible if the people had the common sense to wear a hiking boot when in the backwoods of Montana. So, unless you want to be a statistic in the local rescue page (always a popular read in the local Montana papers by the way), always, repeat always, wear hiking boots when hiking in the mountains of Montana or elsewhere. No exceptions!"

As for Keens and other hiking shoes:

"The Hiking Shoe - Oh, NO! The Hiking Shoe - a big no, no for mountain hiking. The dreaded hiking shoes. Hmm....not sure where to begin with this dreadful creation. Well, ok, not dreadful, really. These are fine shoes for around town stuff, casual and long walks in local parks, around town and over flatter areas where the terrain is even. But, sadly, all too many people are using these hiking shoes as hiking boots - a big no, no. Yes, hiking shoes are amazingly comfortable. And they are far more durable than a sneaker. But, they provide absolutely no ankle support whatsoever. After all, at the end of the day, a hiking shoe is nothing more than a glorified sneaker hiding behind some different fabrics and with a different look. So, if you plan on hiking in the mountains, please do your ankles, knees and legs a favor and hike in REAL boots - not some hiking shoe. Feel free to use the hiking shoe on flat, short hikes in even terrain, use them around camp, whatever. Just don't use them when taking long walks up and down the mountain in rocky terrain - as using them is a recipe for some nasty injuries sooner or later."

And all those people who claim they don't get blisters with trail runners must be wrong...

"If you like blisters, sure, go ahead and take those sneakers out on the trail. You'll quickly discover that those fancy, Nike sneakers which worked so great in town have more than a few shortcomings on a hike over long distances, especially on those that involve lots of hiking up and down in the mountains. A good, and properly fitted hiking boot, can prevent all blisters when used with the right combination of hiking socks."

Or maybe your AT Thru Hike doesn't qualify as "long distances..up and down in the mountains".

Hey, it's on the Internet, so it must be true!

rafe
03-10-2014, 14:49
My last 500 miles or so of AT and LT have been in trail runners. Mostly New Balance something or other (991, 907, whatever.) Most of the AT mileage was on mellow terrain, between Harpers Ferry and southern VA.

What I do notice is that traction on wet rock is not what I remember with Vibram lug soles. The LT in particular has many sections of steep, smooth bare rock escarpments where I wish I'd had better traction. Think South Arm (the ascent out of Mahoosuc Notch.) I'm not about to switch back to heavy boots with lug soles, but there is at least that one penalty/limitation to be aware of.

Kc Fiedler
03-10-2014, 18:44
Sorry to say, you are going to die. Just look at this page: http://www.bigskyfishing.com/hiking-gear/hiking-boots.shtm
Although this is written about Montana hiking, he extends this to all mountain hiking.

"What is wrong with you? Yeah, ok, sneakers and sandals work ok for a leisurely hike in a park, on a grassy trail or on a graded trail somewhere. But use them on rocks, in the mountains, miles from help? You see, ultimately, the vast majority of injuries that happen to people hiking in Montana isn't from people being eaten by bears, from getting lost or being mugged by a deranged backwoods drifter. No, the most common injury in Montana while hiking is twisted/broken ankles and legs - most of which were preventible if the people had the common sense to wear a hiking boot when in the backwoods of Montana. So, unless you want to be a statistic in the local rescue page (always a popular read in the local Montana papers by the way), always, repeat always, wear hiking boots when hiking in the mountains of Montana or elsewhere. No exceptions!"

As for Keens and other hiking shoes:

"The Hiking Shoe - Oh, NO! The Hiking Shoe - a big no, no for mountain hiking. The dreaded hiking shoes. Hmm....not sure where to begin with this dreadful creation. Well, ok, not dreadful, really. These are fine shoes for around town stuff, casual and long walks in local parks, around town and over flatter areas where the terrain is even. But, sadly, all too many people are using these hiking shoes as hiking boots - a big no, no. Yes, hiking shoes are amazingly comfortable. And they are far more durable than a sneaker. But, they provide absolutely no ankle support whatsoever. After all, at the end of the day, a hiking shoe is nothing more than a glorified sneaker hiding behind some different fabrics and with a different look. So, if you plan on hiking in the mountains, please do your ankles, knees and legs a favor and hike in REAL boots - not some hiking shoe. Feel free to use the hiking shoe on flat, short hikes in even terrain, use them around camp, whatever. Just don't use them when taking long walks up and down the mountain in rocky terrain - as using them is a recipe for some nasty injuries sooner or later."

And all those people who claim they don't get blisters with trail runners must be wrong...

"If you like blisters, sure, go ahead and take those sneakers out on the trail. You'll quickly discover that those fancy, Nike sneakers which worked so great in town have more than a few shortcomings on a hike over long distances, especially on those that involve lots of hiking up and down in the mountains. A good, and properly fitted hiking boot, can prevent all blisters when used with the right combination of hiking socks."

Or maybe your AT Thru Hike doesn't qualify as "long distances..up and down in the mountains".

Hey, it's on the Internet, so it must be true!

Who is this joker? Remind me never to seek advice from Big Sky Fishing.

Mags
03-10-2014, 19:33
26271In Montana on the CDT. With Nikes. Did not die.

rafe
03-10-2014, 19:41
26271In Montana on the CDT. With Nikes. Did not die.

Would you feel the same way about shiny-slimy-wet New England rock escarpments? I'm asking honestly.

Mags
03-10-2014, 20:52
Yes. It has been a few years, but my buddy and I encountered some wet and nasty weather above treeline and the steep trails were "slick as snot"

Still used trail runners or sneakers.

26275

Going to Garfield from Lafayette was more of a stream than a trail.

Blissful
03-10-2014, 20:57
I've done trail runners in slick rock on the Long Trail. I did not die. There are techniques to hiking that goes well beyond just shoes. Like a calm attitude and reasoning it out - which sometimes is easier said than done.

rafe
03-10-2014, 21:01
I've done trail runners in slick rock on the Long Trail. I did not die. There are techniques to hiking that goes well beyond just shoes. Like a calm attitude and reasoning it out - which sometimes is easier said than done.

Mind over matter, eh?

lemon b
03-10-2014, 21:10
Anyone had one pair of boots, trailrunners, etc hold out for 2000 miles. I haven't, sometimes one has to use what can be bought local.

Odd Man Out
03-11-2014, 00:24
Who is this joker? Remind me never to seek advice from Big Sky Fishing.

Thanks. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that. I ran across this when looking for info on good 4 day (+/-) hikes in Glacier NP.

I've been discussing my gear list with my dad. He did a bunch of AT backpacking in the late 60s and early 70s and his ideas were firmly held over from that era. I remember his butane cartridge lamp and helping him waterproof monster all leather boots with oil. It has been fun explaining to him the reasoning behind each of my gear selections and the current trends in backpacking. He seems to have come around to appreciate how things have changed, both in technology and methods. Of course it was him who took me on my first AT hike up by Wash Monument in MD. I must have been around 8 yo and had a canvas day pack. Alas my son shows not interest in the outdoors, but I did take my daughter backpacking a few years ago. I hope she will teach me a thing or two when I get to be 85.