View Full Version : Cooking at shelters
TurboPants
03-11-2014, 12:36
I try to follow the principle of cooking your dinner a mile or two away from where you are sleeping to avoid making yourself smell like a giant snickers sandwich. But what I see on YT videos is everyone cooking at the shelters. If mother nature is dropping buckets of rain for days I can sympathize with cooking under the shelter roof, it makes sense. But in the case where you want to eat a meal away from a shelter while it's raining do you just avoid "cooking" and eat the snack foods until its dry enough to cook? I think i'm mentally prepared to just trudge through rain all day but the cooking thing I haven't figured out. I thought may use my tent fly for a quick shelter but in a downpour you'll be opening your bag in the rain and risking getting everything wet.
All that said, what would you past hikers recommend for cooking in the rain, AND is cooking at shelters is acceptable? Thanks in advance!
Most long distance hikers don't fire up their stoves mid-day. Cooking at shelters is acceptable, but courtesy to fellow hikers is always a priority. If the shelter's empty, do as you will -- but please clean up after yourself if you spill any sort of food.
Some folks are OK cooking in their tents, or under the tent awning. I've always been a bit wary of that. The cost of a spill is just too great.
Damn Yankee
03-11-2014, 12:52
Not cooking at shelters is a safety issue with food spills odors and a like. You should not cook near shelters. That being said, what to do in the rain? If you have a rain fly I would set that up and cook under it as far away from tent sight as possible. Now if you don't have a fly then the only obvious choice would be to set up your tent and cook under the vestibule
Sarcasm the elf
03-11-2014, 12:56
The majority of hikers cook at or in the shelters. Don't kid yourself into thinking that the shelters don't already smell like food.
4eyedbuzzard
03-11-2014, 13:20
The majority of hikers cook at or in the shelters. Don't kid yourself into thinking that the shelters don't already smell like food.There are picnic tables, etc. at many shelters - for eating at I presume ;) There is obviously food waste as well all over the place from all the previous hikers, which is why there are mice, which is why there are snakes and owls and such. Shelters are food oases. But yeah, shelters reek of human food.
If you do cook under your tent fly or especially in your tent (which is not a recommended practice - the AT isn't an alpine expedition), be sure to understand safe practices and the necessity to maintain proper ventilation - people have died from carbon monoxide poisoning in tents. Add that nylon fabrics are extremely flammable. And of course your tent will now smell even more like food than it did before.
Shelters don't necessarily "reek of human food." That's BS, sorry. First off, most hiker food doesn't smell like much, half the time what's being cooked is Lipton's noodles or Ramen. Something you boil in water.
Shelters are more likely to smell of food after being filled with weekenders, or youth outing or some such. In nearly 600 miles of AT from Lehigh Gap to Catawba VA, I didn't encounter a single AT shelter that "reeked of human food."
You should not cook near shelters.
Says who, exactly
In nearly 600 miles of AT from Lehigh Gap to Catawba VA, I didn't encounter a single AT shelter that "reeked of human food."
Maybe not to humans but many animals have much keener sense of smell and might beg to differ.
Maybe not to humans but many animals have much keener sense of smell and might beg to differ.
I don't recall being molested by any animals over the course of that hike. Not even mice. But as I've said in other posts -- it seemed at times like I was the only person on the trail. Most nights I had the shelter to myself.
Sarcasm the elf
03-11-2014, 13:50
Says who, exactly
Usually it's people who are taught precautions meant specifically for grizzley country out west and then (in good faith) try to apply the same rules the A.T.
I'll admit to that I used to be one of them.
FarmerChef
03-11-2014, 13:54
Maybe not to humans but many animals have much keener sense of smell and might beg to differ.
This. To many animals the shelter smells of a buffet, especially the mice that hang around in the shelters. To you or I it probably doesn't smell like anything other than damp wood or stone unless, of course, the previous hiker(s) threw their leftover ramen into the fireplace thinking it would "burn" it. :mad:
For sure, in grizzly country, I'd be talking a very different tune. But I thought the PCT and CDT were mostly devoid of shelters anyway. Closest analogy to AT I suppose would be shelters in NJ or SNP where black bears are common.
Bottom line, AT hikers cook in shelters all the time. Obviously if weather allows, you cook at the picnic table or as far from the sleeping platform as possible. But if it's pouring rain and it's not overcrowded, I'm gonna cook my Liptons noodles in the shelter. And if it is overcrowded, I'll probably do so anyway -- but hopefully clear it with whoever else is there.
flemdawg1
03-11-2014, 13:59
Not cooking at shelters is a safety issue with food spills odors and a like. You should not cook near shelters.
Everybody cooks at the shelters. Even folks who claim to hate shelters will normally stop and cook there if its close to dinner time before hiking on to tent elsewhere.
4eyedbuzzard
03-11-2014, 14:23
Maybe not to humans but many animals have much keener sense of smell and might beg to differ.
This. To many animals the shelter smells of a buffet, especially the mice that hang around in the shelters. To you or I it probably doesn't smell like anything other than damp wood or stone unless, of course, the previous hiker(s) threw their leftover ramen into the fireplace thinking it would "burn" it. :mad:Imagine not being able to see particularly well, not blind, but maybe needing to be three times closer to see something, and then seeing everything blurry from about three feet in. Also imagine having a sense of smell 1000's and 1000's of times better than you do. You would experience the world first and primarily through your sense of smell, not your eyes. This is how many animals, including mice, dogs, and bears experience the world.
BobTheBuilder
03-11-2014, 14:58
Everybody cooks at the shelters.
Yep - I remember one shelter last spring where 8 hikers were cooking on the picnic table at the same time. It was kind of funny and I almost took a picture. It would have been quite appropriate for this thread. I'm not big on people cooking in the shelter itself, but what else are the picnic tables for - playing cards?
FarmerChef
03-11-2014, 15:13
Yep - I remember one shelter last spring where 8 hikers were cooking on the picnic table at the same time. It was kind of funny and I almost took a picture. It would have been quite appropriate for this thread. I'm not big on people cooking in the shelter itself, but what else are the picnic tables for - playing cards?
Uh, actually it's for the book club....:D
Sarcasm the elf
03-11-2014, 15:17
Uh, actually it's for the book club....:D
I thought it was for the exclusive use of the norovirus exchange club.:eek:
HooKooDooKu
03-11-2014, 15:20
I don't know about most shelters along the AT, but the shelters in the GSMNP seem to have tables specifically set up to cook/eat. Now these tables are located either at the far front of the shelter, or an area beside the shelter. In both cases, these areas are still under the protection of the shelter.
However they post warnings about cooking and eating in the sleeping areas. I don't see many cooking in the sleeping areas, but I've seen plenty of numskulls eating and spilling food in the sleeping areas... especially at the shelters where the lower bunk doubles as a sitting area.
TurboPants
03-11-2014, 15:20
Well I guess the important thing I go answered was nobody is going to crucify me for cooking dinner at a shelter. If it's raining and there is a convenient shelter along the way it would be silly to NOT stop there under a roof and cook my food as opposed to the vestibule of my tent. I think I'd still much rather find a nice cozy spot in the woods to sit and cook my pasta if weather permits, especially if there's a view!
There have been a decent amount of aggressive bear reports in GA shelters the last couple years. I'd venture to guess it's because more inexperienced people are starting thrus and only make it a few weeks into GA and quit. I intend on sleeping with my food and will go to a few extra measures to make sure the least amount of odors are on me or in the tent. If bear cables are available that's where the food will go, though. If I can figure out the PCT hanging method I may give it a try but I know after hiking 25 miles I may get lazy if the weather is annoying.
FarmerChef
03-11-2014, 15:24
Turbo - I've found that cooking while either sitting with the cooking surface at chest height or standing with it at waist height is far preferable to crouching over the ground while cooking my food. After a good day of walking I'd like to just rest my bum with my legs something less than flat out in front of me. Maybe that's my age talking but boy do I look forward to a good bench style seat, log or rock with a 2 foot clearance off the ground. Not having to bend over while cooking is the main reason I like to hunt for a picnic table and/or firepit.
TurboPants
03-11-2014, 15:39
I have one as well for this exact purpose. Though an elevated surface would always be better on a tired old back. Then again I may be too tired to eat altogether lol. Time will tell!
Shelters are a great place to cook a meal, meet some new friends, share some food, and stories.
A corollary to all this -- it's good to have stuff on hand for one or two no-cook dinners. Eventually you'll have to set up a tent or tarp in pouring rain, no way around it. Sometimes when it's really iffy, I'll just heat water for tea, but eat cold stuff.
lonehiker
03-11-2014, 18:58
The fact is people are going to cook at/in shelters. Only thing that really gripes me are those that use the homemade side burner stoves (or whichever stoves they are) that burn the heck out of the floors and picnic tables. What gripes me worse than that are those that set up their stoves right next to the metal banded section of the tables (on those that have it).
jimmyjam
03-11-2014, 19:09
A lot of the shelters have a large overhang in the front with a picnic table under it or wide overhangs on the sides with a wood counter. That's where I cook. Then socialize a little and then I move on and find my stealth spot.
MuddyWaters
03-11-2014, 20:25
Everyone cooks and eats at shelters. Every day, many people. They all drop food, crumbs, and leave smells.
If it bothers you, dont sleep there.
There have been a decent amount of aggressive bear reports in GA shelters the last couple years. I'd venture to guess it's because more inexperienced people are starting thrus and only make it a few weeks into GA and quit. I intend on sleeping with my food and will go to a few extra measures to make sure the least amount of odors are on me or in the tent.
You are going to sleep with your food, but you are worried about smells on you or your tent? What, like the big bag-o-food magically doesnt smell or something?
people have horrible sense of smell, a bear has a tremendous one, (and fish have hundred x better than a bear) If you equate it to vision to understand the difference, its like you being able to read a 1/2" printed word at 10', a bear would be able to read it at 100-1000 miles away. Thats how bad our noses are. (simple math based on a bear 7x greater than a bloodhound, and a bloodhound a minimum of 10,000 x greater than a human, )
Sarcasm the elf
03-11-2014, 20:41
The fact is people are going to cook at/in shelters. Only thing that really gripes me are those that use the homemade side burner stoves (or whichever stoves they are) that burn the heck out of the floors and picnic tables. What gripes me worse than that are those that set up their stoves right next to the metal banded section of the tables (on those that have it).
If I'm not mistaken it's more the older multifuel stoves such as the whisperlites that create those almost perfectly circular burn marks. They sit low and the burners put off out an incredible amount of heat.
If I'm not mistaken it's more the older multifuel stoves such as the whisperlites that create those almost perfectly circular burn marks. They sit low and the burners put off out an incredible amount of heat.
IMO with white gas stoves that burn mark might come from a priming accident, but not the flame from the burner. Whisperlites ruled the AT until them newfangled alky stoves and canisters got popular. And Sveas before that... I've used my Whisperlite on wooden surfaces many a time.
evyck da fleet
03-11-2014, 21:03
People cook in shelters, spill food around the shelter, pour their water after cleaning their pot near the shelter and hang their food bags from the mouse hangs in the front of the shelter regardless of whether or not in rains. If its raining, I'll cook dinner at the shelter before setting up my tent. In the morning, I've cooked in the vestibule once or twice but don't like making a habit of it. More often I'll eat a few snacks in lieu of breakfast and stop for an early lunch.
IMO with white gas stoves that burn mark might come from a priming accident, but not the flame from the burner. Whisperlites ruled the AT until them newfangled alky stoves and canisters got popular. And Sveas before that... I've used my Whisperlite on wooden surfaces many a time.
It is the alcohol stoves.
I thought may use my tent fly for a quick shelter but in a downpour you'll be opening your bag in the rain and risking getting everything wet. What would you past hikers recommend for cooking in the rain, AND is cooking at shelters is acceptable? Thanks in advance!
Store your fly on the outside of your pack and pack contents will not get wet if you deploy it in the rain.
Cooking at shelters is acceptable. Be tidy, clean up and pack out any spills. Be considerate of others.
If not at a shelter and raining, I will sometimes cook from under my tarp, so that I stay drier. Dry is good.
Alligator
03-12-2014, 11:28
On the AT, I often cook under my tarp while sitting in my T-rest chair. I generally will leave the stove just outside the edge of the roof line. Rain doesn't usually bother the stove as the pot covers the flame. I will slide it under if it's really heavy rain.
HikerMom58
03-12-2014, 11:40
When we walked by the Davenport Shelter (in SMNP) a year or so ago, it had signs up all over the shelter forbidding cooking food in or around the shelter. The reason was b/c of a problem bear in the area.
I like post #22- MikeD. That's how I feel as well. :D
TurboPants
03-12-2014, 11:41
When you say "tarp", do you mean literally an extra tarp or were you still talking about the rain fly? Just wanted to clarify. Cause I know some people do carry a designated rain tarp. I don't think I want that much extra weight. My BA copper spur tent is kinda thin on the bottom so I'm thinking of taking a tyvek footprint and that may be big enough to use as a general tarp.
QiWiz, I've seen your site. Very cool stuff! based on your license plate we are pretty much neighbors, I'm in the portage lakes area. Thanks for your input.
hilltackler
03-12-2014, 12:49
Well, I wouldn't sleep with your food...or did I read that wrong? That will not only attract bears but the small critters will be chewing thru your tent to get to your food. And if it's an area with alot of bear activity you may want to cook and eat before dark and hang your food and any other smelly things like toothpaste, etc.
I cook in shelters often and especiallly in rain but if I were in grizzly country I certainly wouldn't.
Shelters are a great place to cook a meal, meet some new friends, share some food, and stories.
I agree……...
4eyedbuzzard
03-12-2014, 13:52
If I'm not mistaken it's more the older multifuel stoves such as the whisperlites that create those almost perfectly circular burn marks. They sit low and the burners put off out an incredible amount of heat.
It is the alcohol stoves.I can definitely tell you first hand that cat stoves will not only leave a burn mark but can even start a small fire on a picnic table especially with the heat focused/trapped by a windscreen. I am thankful it was my picnic table. FWIW, I did not have similar experience with the Starlyte stove. I think the cat stoves burn faster and hotter and also by not having the internal wick the metal gets hotter.
Lone Wolf
03-12-2014, 14:09
Shelters are a great place to share some food
great way to get sick too
Alligator
03-12-2014, 14:58
My tarp is my shelter. I'm not sure how much area you might need to use your type footprint. If you really wanted to, you could add a little extra and fold it under.
I won't recommend it but I have cooked inside my vestibule of my tent. I can leave the top of the vestibule unzipped and tied back. I am very used to cooking on a variety of stoves and surfaces but I have knocked the stove over a time or two that I remember. I could cook inside my pyramid tent easily too but have not. I have full raingear, it's not an issue to cook outside for me.
You could make a cuben overhang pretty light and it would even lighten your wallet too!
Drybones
03-12-2014, 15:30
If I'm not mistaken it's more the older multifuel stoves such as the whisperlites that create those almost perfectly circular burn marks. They sit low and the burners put off out an incredible amount of heat.
I'd guess over filled alcohol stoves generate the bulk of table burns, or character marks, they call that distressing in the furniture industry, very popular in the designer magazines.
TurboPants
03-12-2014, 15:37
Yeah cuben definitely lightens your wallet! It's not a terrible idea though, it's pretty light stuff. I'd guess 5oz at most for a cuben tarp. But probably $40+ to make it.
In terms of burning tables, pepsi can stoves WILL do this. I've done it many times. The first time I tried it I caught a park table on fire for 15 seconds. I learned the importance of wind screens that day! I also got away from alchy stoves because they are too hot to handle.
hilltackler, I do intend on sleeping with my food sometimes. I'll be hiking some looong days and if I don't get to a spot to camp until dark/dusk it really doesn't make sense to even try to hang a bag because you're far more likely to do it improperly due to lighting and energy. I've read lots of stories where folks slept with their food the whole way and never had a single issue, but there are even more stories about poorly hung bags resulting in donating your food to the forest at 2AM. I'm not so arrogant to say one way is better than another because I just don't have experience yet. Nature will sort me out, for better or worse.
Ya see this why you should carry honey. Smear it on your neighbor's tent and the bears will leave yours alone. ;)
Man you all need to see trail camera pictures of the pick nick table at night with the shelter full of people, bears, raccoons, Opossums, skunks, rats and mice come in for the free meal every night. All sorts of crumbs fall through the tables.
lonehiker
03-12-2014, 18:05
I'd guess over filled alcohol stoves generate the bulk of table burns, or character marks, they call that distressing in the furniture industry, very popular in the designer magazines.
It isn't over-filled alcohol stoves. It is some of the side-burner models.
Lone Wolf
03-12-2014, 21:06
It isn't over-filled alcohol stoves. It is some of the side-burner models.
post a pic of what this side burner thing is
Wise Old Owl
03-12-2014, 21:34
26323
Well Bird Brain did that - the jets shoot out the sides requiring a wide pot for heating... Thought u noticed... he is selling these and they are well made and reasonable.
Drybones
03-12-2014, 22:11
It isn't over-filled alcohol stoves. It is some of the side-burner models.
My eyes must have been playing tricks on me.
atmilkman
03-13-2014, 09:07
I'd guess over filled alcohol stoves generate the bulk of table burns, or character marks, they call that distressing in the furniture industry, very popular in the designer magazines.
It isn't over-filled alcohol stoves. It is some of the side-burner models.
26326
Could it be a side-burner like this?
Drybones
03-13-2014, 10:14
26326
Could it be a side-burner like this?
That's a good point, the alcohol stoves I refer to are side burners...I haven't had much success using holes as small as the one you show, take too long to get going but sure look nice when they heat up.
Drybones
03-13-2014, 10:20
26326
Could it be a side-burner like this?
What I've seen were stoves similar to this that boil over, and that seems to happen some times even if they are not filled too high, don't know why, looks kind of like condensation dripping down the side, runs onto the table and burns, that's why I put a flashing sheet on my wife's stove when I heated water for coffee this morning, easier to make coffee for one using the camp stove when she's away.
When you say "tarp", do you mean literally an extra tarp or were you still talking about the rain fly? Just wanted to clarify. Cause I know some people do carry a designated rain tarp. I don't think I want that much extra weight. My BA copper spur tent is kinda thin on the bottom so I'm thinking of taking a tyvek footprint and that may be big enough to use as a general tarp.
QiWiz, I've seen your site. Very cool stuff! based on your license plate we are pretty much neighbors, I'm in the portage lakes area. Thanks for your input.
Hey neighbor. I don't use tents, so when I say tarp, I mean my tarp (shelter). The most common tarp I use is a shaped tarp like a SMD Gatewood Cape or Wild Oasis, or my current fave, the Zpacks Hexamid. I can sit inside and cook just outside but still within my reach, if that makes sense.
AT Annie
03-13-2014, 18:15
I agree with you Elf about the smell and sometimes it isn't food odors, but it's home away from home.
I also agree completely about Cornwall. I never imagined CT to have so many fricking rocks!