Can't decide on my insulation layer. Help?

[fastfoxengineering]

Hey guys I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do for my insulation for an AT thru hikw (NOBO starting in march)

I know it's going to be cold in the beginning and hot during the summer. I'm trying to figure out a good insulation jacket or combination to handle both climates.

I'll be starting to hike in March wearing a Long Sleeve 1/4 Zip Tech wick Shirt as my primary hiking shirt. My outer shell is a Marmot Mica Rain Jacket.

Now, here's what I have gathered to be my insulating options:

Down Jacket/Hoodie - Warmest/Lightest (susceptible to rain/water)
Synthetic Jacket (ex. Primaloft) (Warm/Light, more durable and less susceptible to water)
A combination of a fleece pullover or zip up, coupled with a synthetic or down vest (Can hike in the fleece zip up, and save down/synthetic vest for camp)

A leaning towards the synthetics for a Thru-hike, I feel like not having to worry so much about getting it wet is awesome. I know wet synthetic is still unconfortable, but at least I'm not sol and freezing.

Also, combo 3 gives me the ability to just send something home come the warm weather. I'd prob keep the fleece in the summer weather and have the vest shipped back to me. You guys really seem to appreciate having a vest.

And I've come to the conclusion all three setups will cost about the same. So the variance in cost isn't that much of a concern. $20-30 isn't gonna be a deal breaker for me.

Any input?

Regards

[DocMahns]

have you considered wool? it still insulates quite well when wet

[fastfoxengineering]

I haven't considered wool as a mid layer. I think down/synthetics have a big advantage over it due to compressibility and usually weight. Modern synthetics retain 95% of body heat when wet too nowadays. So I think it'd be ideal over wool.

[Venchka]

Forecast for March 12-13, 2014. TN-NC border. Temperatures at lower elevations (Asheville & Boone, NC) are expected in the teens. Winds above 30 mph. Think about what it will be like at 5,000 feet on an exposed ridge in the mountains. You might need everything you own.
From Ray's Weather Asheville, NC:


NWS Wind Advisory (Buncombe County) (http://alerts.weather.gov/cap/wwacapget.php?x=NC12514825BE20.WindAdvisory.125148 353EE0NC.GSPNPWGSP.d1aefbf955c5fb1a454ba86cec5691c f)
HIDE (http://ashevilleweather.com/Forecast/Asheville#)
Wind Advisory issued March 12 at 4:40AM EDT until March 13 at 6:00AM EDT by NWS Greenville-Spartanburg

...A PASSING STRONG COLD FRONT WILL RESULT IN VERY GUSTY CONDITIONS THIS AFTERNOON THROUGH TONIGHT... .SOUTHWEST WINDS WILL STRENGTHEN ACROSS THE REGION EARLY THIS AFTERNOON AHEAD OF AN APPROACHING COLD FRONT. WINDS WILL SHIFT FROM THE NORTHWEST AS A COLD FRONT PUSHES EAST ACROSS THE REGION LATE THIS AFTERNOON. A STRONG PRESSURE GRADIENT WILL SUPPORT STRONG WINDS ACROSS THE SOUTHERN APPALACHIANS THIS EVENING AND TONIGHT. IN ADDITION...THE COLD AND MOIST NORTHWEST WINDS WILL SUPPORT SNOW SHOWERS ACROSS THE TENNESSEE BORDER COUNTIES TONIGHT. ...WIND ADVISORY IN EFFECT FROM NOON TODAY TO 6 AM EDT THURSDAY... THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN GREENVILLE-SPARTANBURG HAS ISSUED A WIND ADVISORY...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM NOON TODAY TO 6 AM EDT THURSDAY. * LOCATIONS...THE CENTRAL AND SOUTHERN NORTH CAROLINA MOUNTAINS. * HAZARDS...STRONG AND GUSTY WINDS. * TIMING...FROM THIS AFTERNOON THROUGH TONIGHT. * WINDS...NORTHWEST 20 TO 30 MPH WITH GUSTS UP TO 55 MPH. * IMPACTS...DOWNED TREE LIMBS AND POSSIBLE UPROOTING OF TREES. SCATTERED POWER OUTAGES ARE POSSIBLE.

Counties Affected:
Buncombe; Burke Mountains; Caldwell Mountains; Graham; Haywood; Henderson; Macon; Madison; McDowell Mountains; Northern Jackson; Polk Mountains; Rutherford Mountains; Southern Jackson; Swain; Transylvania


Issued by: NWS Greenville-Spartanburg (Western North Carolina and Northwest South Carolina)

Be warm, dry & safe.

Wayne

[Mags]

For wet and cold weather (http://www.pmags.com/cold-and-wet-the-hardest-hiking), the combo of a light windshirt and a 100wt fleece is very good. For breaks and in camp, thrown on a light puffy or down vest (depends on how cold you get).

Around the time of Trail Days, you can get rid of a layer. In Hanover or Glencliff, pick up the layer again. Optional as some people like to hold on to the layers for the entire thru-hike.

[hoppy from GA]

I mostly hike in N.GA and NC before GSMNP. In shoulder seasons, I take a baselayer, rainjacket, and synthetic jacket (REI revelcloud). I also take a wool vest I picked up at Goodwill just in case and will usually ditch it around mid-April. A wool/knit hat also. I always have a dry baselayer/socks for night.

[DocMahns]

I haven't considered wool as a mid layer. I think down/synthetics have a big advantage over it due to compressibility and usually weight. Modern synthetics retain 95% of body heat when wet too nowadays. So I think it'd be ideal over wool.

I was always told not to compress synthetics and not to get down wet. Merino wool layers are usually fairly light. I picked up a 360 wt. wool fleece for my insulating layer and am very happy with it.

[garlic08]

Maybe a better question would be about layers, plural. I don't like all my insulation in one garment.

I started my AT hike in April with a Marmot Driclime jacket and a down vest "in reserve"--I only hiked in it on one cold and dry day, but it was nice to have as a safety and for breaks. In heavy rain, I kept the Driclime in a plastic bag in the pack and wore a light polypro jersey and a thin polypro base layer under my rain shell. I'd pull the Driclime out on breaks under shelter (the AT is nice that way--lots of shelters). I hiked through a couple of spring blizzards in the high country with blowing snow and overnight temps in the low teens with that system. I noticed I had the trail to myself then too--most had bailed out to Gatlinburg or elsewhere.

As usual, it's probably more about how you use your clothing (and your head) than about what you carry. Those who bailed out had much larger packs and more clothing than I did. The nicest down garment in the world will quickly become dead weight or worse if you wear it on a climb in the rain.

[fastfoxengineering]

Maybe a better question would be about layers, plural. I don't like all my insulation in one garment.

I started my AT hike in April with a Marmot Driclime jacket and a down vest "in reserve"--I only hiked in it on one cold and dry day, but it was nice to have as a safety and for breaks. In heavy rain, I kept the Driclime in a plastic bag in the pack and wore a light polypro jersey and a thin polypro base layer under my rain shell. I'd pull the Driclime out on breaks under shelter (the AT is nice that way--lots of shelters). I hiked through a couple of spring blizzards in the high country with blowing snow and overnight temps in the low teens with that system. I noticed I had the trail to myself then too--most had bailed out to Gatlinburg or elsewhere.

As usual, it's probably more about how you use your clothing (and your head) than about what you carry. Those who bailed out had much larger packs and more clothing than I did. The nicest down garment in the world will quickly become dead weight or worse if you wear it on a climb in the rain.

Exactly why I'm considering a synthetic mid layer. Even more so because I primarily hike in damp regions or where there can be a lot of rain. After some more research, I think I may be well off going this route for cold weather hiking as this is my main concern at the start of the thru.

What are your opinions on taking a Patagonia Capilene 4 Expedition Weight Zip up Hoody and pairing that with a Synthetic Jacket (Nanopuff, Thermawrap, Rab Xenon X)

If I were to wear all of my hiking layers at once, which will prob not be necessary most of the time, this is what I could wear if I was cold:

Capilene 2 T-Shirt
Techwick 1 Lightweight 1/4 Zip Long Sleeve
Capilene 4 Zip Up Hoody
Synthetic Puffy Jacket (Nanopuff, Thermawrap, Rab Xenon X)
Marmot Mica Rain Jacket

Furthermore, I have a Smartwool Cuffed Beanie, A CoolMax Synthetic Buff, and Wool Glove Liners which I can add for layering.

I would keep my set of long underwear baselayers for camp clothes. And use some of these other layers in camp to help insulate. I'll be starting the hike with a 20* Top Quilt from Hammock Gear

Come warm weather, I could send something home to save weight if I wanted to. If you think this setup would work nicely, do you think the puffy jacket should be hooded or not?

[10-K]

The best base layer is to start in May. :)

[Feral Bill]

For a few bucks and a couple of ounces a wool scarf works wonders.

[The Cleaner]

A Patagonia Nano Puff pullover (9ozs) over any wool baselayer is good, then if needed put your rain jacket over that. A wind blocking hat/beanie is a must too. All of my synthetic baselayer junk is in the work clothes closet now. I even wear a wool tee shirt in warmer weather...

[fastfoxengineering]

A Patagonia Nano Puff pullover (9ozs) over any wool baselayer is good, then if needed put your rain jacket over that. A wind blocking hat/beanie is a must too. All of my synthetic baselayer junk is in the work clothes closet now. I even wear a wool tee shirt in warmer weather...

Do you really think synthetics are junk? I've been happily using them for years for the cost/durability of it. I buy wool when I get a great deal on it, but I really do think synthetics are going to take over. I just got a really good deal on a Patagonia Capilene 4 1/4 Zip Hoody. I'm going to use it as a cold weather baselayer, or a cold weather sencondary layer, coupled with a down or synthetic hoody. This should keep me comfortable in cold weather hiking/camp. When it warms up, I'm going to swap the jacket for a vest. Therefore, my midlayer for warm weather will be the Capilene 4 and vest. I think it's gonna be a very versatile piece of clothing at 8oz that I can keep with me a whole thru hike.

[The Cleaner]

I've found that wool stuff feels warm when damp with sweat while synthetic stuff feels cool next to skin when damp. I got all my wool baselayers from Steep & Cheap for around $50 each...

[garlic08]

...If you think this setup would work nicely, do you think the puffy jacket should be hooded or not?

Hooded or not, wool or synthetic, down or synthetic--all difficult choices with no clear winners. One is always better until it isn't. If there were one best choice, there wouldn't be so many choices.

One thing to remember on the AT is that it is a southern hike in the spring, not an arctic adventure. Many days will be warm and sunny. You should be prepared for the occasional spring storm especially if you you're hiking the high country at the time. But even that's not critical if you can keep an eye on the weather and have the ability to stay in town for a day or two (read "A Walk in the Woods"). The important thing is to know your (and your gear's) limitations and the only way to do that is to get out in it and make some mistakes. As the saying goes, "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment." Good luck in your choices.

[lonehiker]

Do you really think synthetics are junk? I've been happily using them for years for the cost/durability of it. I buy wool when I get a great deal on it, but I really do think synthetics are going to take over. I just got a really good deal on a Patagonia Capilene 4 1/4 Zip Hoody. I'm going to use it as a cold weather baselayer, or a cold weather sencondary layer, coupled with a down or synthetic hoody. This should keep me comfortable in cold weather hiking/camp. When it warms up, I'm going to swap the jacket for a vest. Therefore, my midlayer for warm weather will be the Capilene 4 and vest. I think it's gonna be a very versatile piece of clothing at 8oz that I can keep with me a whole thru hike.

If you've been using them for years with good results, why would you let someone else tell you what will work and what won't....

[colorado_rob]

For wet and cold weather (http://www.pmags.com/cold-and-wet-the-hardest-hiking), the combo of a light windshirt and a 100wt fleece is very good. For breaks and in camp, thrown on a light puffy or down vest (depends on how cold you get).
. Just FWIW, this sounds like my setup; merino wool baselayer, 100 wt. fleece second layer (with 1/4 zip neck), UL down puffy jacket (Montbell, 9 ounces) for major insulation layer, rain jacket over it all when needed. Four total upper body layers, very versatile with the different combinations, very lightweight. I've really never had any problem keep my down jacket dry; just don't wear it while hiking except early morning if it's cold and dry weather until body heat gets going, and don't wear it when pouring rain because the rain shell will wet-through eventually. Just take care of your down (keep it dry) and it's the best option by far IMHO.

[Violent Green]

What are your opinions on taking a Patagonia Capilene 4 Expedition Weight Zip up Hoody and pairing that with a Synthetic Jacket (Nanopuff, Thermawrap, Rab Xenon X)

If I were to wear all of my hiking layers at once, which will prob not be necessary most of the time, this is what I could wear if I was cold:

Capilene 2 T-Shirt
Techwick 1 Lightweight 1/4 Zip Long Sleeve
Capilene 4 Zip Up Hoody
Synthetic Puffy Jacket (Nanopuff, Thermawrap, Rab Xenon X)
Marmot Mica Rain Jacket

Furthermore, I have a Smartwool Cuffed Beanie, A CoolMax Synthetic Buff, and Wool Glove Liners which I can add for layering.
I would keep my set of long underwear baselayers for camp clothes. And use some of these other layers in camp to help insulate. I'll be starting the hike with a 20* Top Quilt from Hammock Gear
Come warm weather, I could send something home to save weight if I wanted to. If you think this setup would work nicely, do you think the puffy jacket should be hooded or not?

Fastfox - That setup will work great. Hooded puffy would be best for the weight, but if you already have a beanie you will most likely be OK. A 2oz windshirt would also give you a lot more versatility at a small weight penalty.

Ryan

[fastfoxengineering]

Fastfox - That setup will work great. Hooded puffy would be best for the weight, but if you already have a beanie you will most likely be OK. A 2oz windshirt would also give you a lot more versatility at a small weight penalty.

Ryan

Glad to hear. I've settled on a Patagonia Nano Puff Hoody as my jacket. I know down would save me an ounce or two, but the synthetic is more versatile to me outside of the "thru-hiking" world. I like to fish and hunt and sometimes get caught in a little bit of rain. Also for wearing around town I feel as if the synthetic would be better for me. I'm loving this capilene 4 hoody, been wearing it around lately and its awesome right now as a baselayer in this new England weather.

Do people usually send there insulating layer home on the AT during the summer? Or swap it out for something lighter like a vest? Out of curiosity, come summer time, would you think you would send home the nanopuff or cap 4 hoody?

Regards

[fastfoxengineering]

Furthermore, I don't know squat about wind shirts. Can you point me in the right direction for this 2oz wind shirt. I'm intrigued.

[Praha4]

listen to Mag's advice. I use the Montbell Tachyon Anorak for a hooded windshirt. This thing provided excellent U/L insulation for just a couple ounces of weight. The Patagonia R1 hoody is an excellent lightweight hooded fleece top also. You can still bring a U/L down or synthetic vest for camp.
For wet and cold weather (http://www.pmags.com/cold-and-wet-the-hardest-hiking), the combo of a light windshirt and a 100wt fleece is very good. For breaks and in camp, thrown on a light puffy or down vest (depends on how cold you get).

Around the time of Trail Days, you can get rid of a layer. In Hanover or Glencliff, pick up the layer again. Optional as some people like to hold on to the layers for the entire thru-hike.

[Oak88]

I had a merino wool base layer, mid layer was a Marmot wind shirt (http://www.amazon.com/Marmot-Mountain-LLC-Driclime-Windshirt/dp/B005CF9APE) , with a ArcTeryx shell for wet and cold days. I had a down jacket worn only in camp and slept in the jacket only on two really cold nights during my thru. As mentioned before all your heavy winter gear can be sent home by Mt Rodgers and sent back at Hanover. The wind shirt was very warm at 8 ounces. Originally I intended to wear a 200 weight fleece but that was much too much warmth and the wind seems to blow through fleece. I generate a lot of heat when I hike so most days I hiked in a tee or the long sleeved wool.

[Nooga]

I've changed my insulation layers from synthetic to merino wool and haven't looked back…..

[fastfoxengineering]

I had a merino wool base layer, mid layer was a Marmot wind shirt (http://www.amazon.com/Marmot-Mountain-LLC-Driclime-Windshirt/dp/B005CF9APE) , with a ArcTeryx shell for wet and cold days. I had a down jacket worn only in camp and slept in the jacket only on two really cold nights during my thru. As mentioned before all your heavy winter gear can be sent home by Mt Rodgers and sent back at Hanover. The wind shirt was very warm at 8 ounces. Originally I intended to wear a 200 weight fleece but that was much too much warmth and the wind seems to blow through fleece. I generate a lot of heat when I hike so most days I hiked in a tee or the long sleeved wool.

You guys have me intrigued with the wind shirts. I never even heard about them till I came to this site. The Patagonia Houdini gets rave reviews. Looks like a very versatile piece of equipment. On the other hand the Marmot Driclime is also lightly insulated. And they have a hooded version. Which would be better for a thru-hike?

I'm leaning towards the Houdini because it isn't insulated. I could pair that up with the cap 4 hoody. Maybe add in a lightweight vest for just in case extra warmth, a pillow, and a more comfortable camp jacket.

All together a lightweight versatile setup. Or am I over complicating things and should just get a sythetic puffy jacket. I like options, but I also like simplicity.

[Mags]

A windshirt is just a wind breaker with lighter material and costs more money. Ditto with the Marmot Windshirt or similar (a very light fleece like layer vs the polycotton found in the track jackets favored by runners, golfers and actors playing organized crime figures). :D

http://www.pmags.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/paulie-walnuts.jpg
Lined Windbreaker


http://pmags2.jzapin.com/gallery2/d/20576-2/montbell_lightshell.jpg

Lined Windshirt

All kidding aside, they are versatile pieces of clothing for not much weight penalty. They tend to be more breathable and lighter versus a traditional windbreaker. IF you are on a budget, you can buy a traditional windbreaker dirt cheap and rip the poly-cotton liner out.

[rafe]

have you considered wool? it still insulates quite well when wet

+1 on that. Pendleton flannel shirts are very classy and very comfy.