View Full Version : Harmful BPA?
Pedaling Fool
03-13-2014, 10:43
This was a big issue a few years ago and I somewhat forgot about it until I read this story today http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2014/03/12/fda-research-confirms-bpa-is-a-ok/
Curious if anyone changed out their BPA-laced products for BPA-free and have seen any differences, i.e. price, capability (such as boiling/freezing...), life expectancy, or whatever...
Excerpt:
"Many non-scientists are increasingly confused and dismayed by the constantly changing advice that comes from medical, nutritional and other researchers. Some of that confusion is due to the quality of the evidence, which is dependent on a number of factors, while some is due to the very nature of science: We form hypotheses and then perform experiments to test them. As the data accumulate and various hypotheses are rejected, we become more confident about what we think we know.
But uncertainty may arise from the current state of scientific investigation: The results of experiments often cannot be replicated, and similar experiments by different researchers often yield conflicting results.
There are a number of reasons for these inconsistencies, including problems with experimental design, shoddy statistical methodology, selective exclusion of data points, misleading or exaggerated conclusions, and a failure to discriminate between association and causation. Worst of all is the publication of the results of “advocacy research” which is actually designed to give a false, preordained result (http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2012/09/25/scientists-smell-a-rat-in-fraudulent-genetic-engineering-study/) in order to provide propaganda that can be cited by activists long after the findings have been discredited."
Rain Man
03-13-2014, 11:00
Worst of all is the publication of the results of “advocacy research” which is actually designed to give a false, preordained result (http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2012/09/25/scientists-smell-a-rat-in-fraudulent-genetic-engineering-study/) in order to provide propaganda that can be cited by activists long after the findings have been discredited."[/B][/I]
Thank you so much for the morning guffaw!!! Forbes complaining of "advocacy research." Oh, the irony!!! ROTLMAO!
Rain:sunMan
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lonehiker
03-13-2014, 11:19
I still use a bladder and a soft Nalgene canteen that are pre-BPA free frenzy.
perdidochas
03-13-2014, 11:26
I still use a bladder and a soft Nalgene canteen that are pre-BPA free frenzy.
Soft nalgenes never had BPA. BPA is used to make hard, clear plastics and to line steel food cans.
lonehiker
03-13-2014, 11:31
Glad to learn that. So, why do the new soft sided bottles and the new bladders indicate BPA free? Just advertising gimmick?
adding to the confusion: http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/BPA-free-plastics-may-be-less-safe-than-those-5302319.php
To the question "is BPA harmful", Yes. Of course it is, and that is why I don't eat my old Nalgenes :)
However, I have yet to see any credible evidence that shows BPA in water containers is a health risk to humans. I actually wish Nalege and other manufactures would start using it again.
My old BPA infused gear (lexan/polycarbonate) is much more durable than the new stuff. I still have several old Nalgene bottles that still look almost new after years of use. My new Nalgene bottles are scratched and gouged all over, and I had one crack on me this winter.
Lexan/polycarbonate is really good stuff, and they need to go back to using it IMHO.
Glad to learn that. So, why do the new soft sided bottles and the new bladders indicate BPA free? Just advertising gimmick?
Yes. It's like "100% cholesterol free" on a can of peaches".
perdidochas
03-13-2014, 12:57
Glad to learn that. So, why do the new soft sided bottles and the new bladders indicate BPA free? Just advertising gimmick?
Yes, because they realize that most people don't understand that BPA was only used in certain plastics.
Coca Cola's perspective:
http://www.coca-colacompany.com/contact-us/faqs
Are your products safe to consume if they are in aluminum cans with liners containing BPA?
All of our products, regardless of the type of packaging used, are safe.
Independent scientists have thoroughly reviewed the data and have assured us that our beverage cans pose no public health risk. Our own scientists also have reviewed the data and are confident about our packaging safety. In addition, the scientific body of evidence has been reviewed independently by several government regulators throughout the world. These regulators have repeatedly stated that current levels of exposure to Bisphenol A (BPA) through beverage packaging pose no health risk to the general population, including children.
Aluminum can liners that use BPA are the industry standard and have been used safely for more than 50 years. In fact, they have improved food and beverage safety by providing protection against food-borne diseases.
A number of studies and reviews conducted in 2010 and 2011, including one study lauded by a leading endocrinologist as being "majestically scientific and cautious, (http://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorbutterworth/2011/07/25/majestically-scientific-federal-study-on-bpa-has-stunning-findings-so-why-is-the-media-ignoring-it/)" support the prevailing evidence that BPA is safe for humans. Learn more about these studies. (http://www.coca-colacompany.com/contact-us/faqs#can-you-share-details-of-the-new-studies-that-support-the-consensus-that-bpa-is-safe-for-humans)
Our top priority is to ensure the safety and quality of our products and packaging through rigorous standards that meet or exceed government requirements. If we had any concerns about the safety of our packaging, we would not use it.
Coca Cola's perspective:
http://www.coca-colacompany.com/contact-us/faqs
Are your products safe to consume if they are in aluminum cans with liners containing BPA?
All of our products, regardless of the type of packaging used, are safe.
Independent scientists have thoroughly reviewed the data and have assured us that our beverage cans pose no public health risk. Our own scientists also have reviewed the data and are confident about our packaging safety. In addition, the scientific body of evidence has been reviewed independently by several government regulators throughout the world. These regulators have repeatedly stated that current levels of exposure to Bisphenol A (BPA) through beverage packaging pose no health risk to the general population, including children.
Aluminum can liners that use BPA are the industry standard and have been used safely for more than 50 years. In fact, they have improved food and beverage safety by providing protection against food-borne diseases.
A number of studies and reviews conducted in 2010 and 2011, including one study lauded by a leading endocrinologist as being "majestically scientific and cautious, (http://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorbutterworth/2011/07/25/majestically-scientific-federal-study-on-bpa-has-stunning-findings-so-why-is-the-media-ignoring-it/)" support the prevailing evidence that BPA is safe for humans. Learn more about these studies. (http://www.coca-colacompany.com/contact-us/faqs#can-you-share-details-of-the-new-studies-that-support-the-consensus-that-bpa-is-safe-for-humans)
Our top priority is to ensure the safety and quality of our products and packaging through rigorous standards that meet or exceed government requirements. If we had any concerns about the safety of our packaging, we would not use it.
Works for me :)
If I remember right the whole thing started over plastic baby bottles that were being heated in microwaves (which you shouldn't do anyway). Someone discovered that if you overheat the baby bottles, BPA can be released into the liquid (although in very small amounts). From there the press took it a blew the whole thing way out of proportion. Next thing you know I'm stuck with crappy water bottles.
So is it OK to keep reusing a Gatoraid bottle for weeks as a water bottle?
Rocket Jones
03-13-2014, 14:00
So is it OK to keep reusing a Gatoraid bottle for weeks as a water bottle?
No. According to a coworker, you should never drink out of a plastic bottle more than twice. :rolleyes: Of course, he tells me this while filling his plastic water filter container for the 600th consecutive day. :confused:
So is it OK to keep reusing a Gatoraid bottle for weeks as a water bottle?
Form my past reading the three things that increase the BPA risk are:
Length of time the liquid sits in the bottle
Exposing the bottle to high heat (ie. Microwave)
Liquids with high chlorine levels.
Since I assume you are drinking your water and not storing it, and since most people don't microwave or boil their water these days, that leaves using chlorine water treatment as the largest risk factor. Even at that I have seen no credible study that says the amount of chlorine used to treat water would cause an unacceptable high level of BPA to leach out.
I have no problem reusing water bottles. I don't even know if Gatorade bottles have BPA?
4eyedbuzzard
03-13-2014, 14:24
So is it OK to keep reusing a Gatoraid bottle for weeks as a water bottle?From what I understand as long as it isn't heated it won't release any more BPA than normal. So wash it with soap and cold water occasionally and don't put hot liquids in it. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2254523/
4eyedbuzzard
03-13-2014, 14:28
According to a few sources, Gatorade bottles don't have BPA, but there are other pseudo-science dangers with BPA free bottles apparently http://www.naturalhealth365.com/science_news/bpa.html Life is so dangerous . . .
According to a few sources, Gatorade bottles don't have BPA, but there are other pseudo-science dangers with BPA free bottles apparently http://www.naturalhealth365.com/science_news/bpa.html Life is so dangerous . . .
That's it, I'm going back to a goat bladder. We never had these problems when we killed our own water bottles :)
4eyedbuzzard
03-13-2014, 14:37
That's it, I going back to a goat bladder. We never had these problems when we killed our own water bottles :)
You will regret that choice when you grow horns and start eating tin cans. :D
perdidochas
03-13-2014, 14:39
According to a few sources, Gatorade bottles don't have BPA, but there are other pseudo-science dangers with BPA free bottles apparently http://www.naturalhealth365.com/science_news/bpa.html Life is so dangerous . . .
I don't think that applies to PET bottles which is what gatorade bottles are. I think that article was about the chemicals that are substituted for BPA.
I had been hedging my bets by carrying one Nalgene and one Gatorade bottle (figuring only half as bad, with half the weight savings). This summer I think I will go for the weight savings and go both Gatorade. I try to replace them at every resupply anyway.
I had been hedging my bets by carrying one Nalgene and one Gatorade bottle (figuring only half as bad, with half the weight savings). This summer I think I will go for the weight savings and go both Gatorade. I try to replace them at every resupply anyway.
I do that anyway, just because I like Gatorade (or Powerade). In the summer, I usually hit the trail with a new liter bottle of the stuff and refill it with water once it's empty. I would think if i ever did a thru hike, I would do the same thing at every resupply.
But for you purists out there that only drink plain water, refilling a Gatorade bottle with nothing but spring water, is probably still much better for you than drinking store bought bottled water.
hayshaker170
03-13-2014, 21:01
Is the BP-free stuff any lighter? Cuz I need to trim some weight somewhere.
That settles it. If the Coca Cola Corp says I'm safe from BPA in their containers great. Now, can we get to the bigger issue. Is Coca Cola safe to drink? :-?
Wise Old Owl
03-13-2014, 21:49
I still have my BPA bottles - its a non issue for owls.... but the owlets now have three testicals.... should I be worried? I'm stumped.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/__OWLq.gif
That settles it. If the Coca Cola Corp says I'm safe from BPA in their containers great. Now, can we get to the bigger issue. Is Coca Cola safe to drink? :-?
Coca Cola is safe if consumed in quantities less than 15.99 ounces.
Wise Old Owl
03-13-2014, 21:52
That settles it. If the Coca Cola Corp says I'm safe from BPA in their containers great. Now, can we get to the bigger issue. Is Coca Cola safe to drink? :-?
The lining inside the cans is spray on Shellac....the plastic soft containers, probably OK - Drinking CC in quantity ... very dangerous to your pancreas.
4eyedbuzzard
03-14-2014, 01:17
Coca Cola is safe if consumed in quantities less than 15.99 ounces.Just add some rum though and any size is okay ;)
Odd Man Out
03-14-2014, 12:34
I went to a lecture by the top toxicologist working for a major chemical manufacturing company. She was asked to do a comprehensive review of the BPA research and come up with recommendations for their product development team. Her conclusion was that all the concerns about BPA were overblown and there never was a real health risk. Nevertheless, her recommendation was to produce, develop, and market only BPA-free products because the public perception was so poisoned, that doing otherwise would be corporate suicide. The bottom line is that it doesn't matter if BPA is toxic or not. As long as the uninformed public thinks it is, you are likely to get products that proudly claim to be BPA-free, which will of course only reinforce the public's misconceptions.
Rain Man
03-14-2014, 16:25
I went to a lecture by the top toxicologist working for a major chemical manufacturing company. She was asked to do a comprehensive review of the BPA research and come up with recommendations for their product development team. Her conclusion was that all the concerns about BPA were overblown and there never was a real health risk.
That certainly settles it! Let's all go back to (or start) smoking cigarettes, insulating with asbestos, spraying DDT, and ... shall I go on with all the current drugs that are regularly yanked off the market?! LOL
Rain Man
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That certainly settles it! Let's all go back to (or start) smoking cigarettes, insulating with asbestos, spraying DDT, and ... shall I go on with all the current drugs that are regularly yanked off the market?! LOL
Rain Man
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Got to have something to keep the lawyers busy. :D
Wise Old Owl
03-14-2014, 19:32
That certainly settles it! Let's all go back to (or start) smoking cigarettes, insulating with asbestos, spraying DDT, and ... shall I go on with all the current drugs that are regularly yanked off the market?! LOL
Rain Man
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OK lets have a little fun with that.. and its not personal - Banning DDT for thinning of shells? Junk Science. most raptors were dieing from lead poison - (hunting) Keep in mind other countries still use DDT except Africa - and DDT was the primary control at the time for mosquitos and Malaria and Yellow Fever... Since then - millions of babies die each year in Africa and similar countries from disease and Encephalitis, delivered by mosquitos.
Don't forget Bed Bugs was wiped off the map with DDT!
And ya got to love those drugs yanked off the market... One should be Tylenol... considering what it does to the liver.... and the number of annual deaths, More than folk who don't want to wear a motorcycle helmet...
Asbestos... Spoke with an engineer three months ago... turns out there are 7 types of Asbestos - the only one that causes death is the one used in Submarines and navy ships... all the others have been tested and remarkably benign. (Shingles) (Siding) etc. Allow me to toss in Vermiculite... I am aware of the danger... its insulation in some attics.
Lead - hmmm guess what heavy metal can be soaked up by plants... I never did eat paint chips! I test positive for lead in my blood because I eat vegetables... Spinach etc. I am sure there are other sources.
lets not forget Mercury in all that fish people eat... Vegetarians may be misinformed.
Rainman - please understand I am wired for "and that's the rest of the story!" I miss Paul Harvey... he had a great radio news minute..
There are risks and death in everything we do... at some point we have to enjoy life..Smoke, Drink, Hike and be happy!
Sorry if this offends anyone....
I generally support taking known dangerous products off the market. All I want to see is credible evidence that a product is dangerous when used as intended. Even then we need to balance the rights of the people with the responsibility of society to protect its citizens.
We live in a very strange time, we panic over a few stories published in the New York times about a theory that a product might maybe be dangerous, then demand that it is removed from the market. At the same time we completely ignore other products that are proven highly dangerous, even when used as designed.
Swimming pools kill 1000s of people every year.
Bicycles kill thousands of people every year.
Alcohol is incredibly dangerous when used as intended, it kills 10s of thousands every year if not more. Especially if mixed with swimming pools and bicycles.
Tobacco... no need to get into that, we all know.
Cars...
BPA used in water bottles. Not one documented death, injury, hospitalization, etc. Not one. I can't find a single documented health problem caused by water bottles with PBA. I can find a lot of theory and speculation, but nothing else.
Mass media drove manufactures to remove BPA, not science.
Wise Old Owl
03-14-2014, 21:01
Thanks good post - I also get into the statistics.. I was amazed that 600 people died from leaving a propane cylinder in their hot car... today we all have overfill devices. And millions of old steel cylinders that could have been recycled in dumps... remember that one? OPD OMG.
So we shouldn't fill our plastic bottles with water that comes from the ground because the plastic may have some nasty stuff in it? Something seems strange here.
I told people for yrs not to trust the chemical and lumber companies when they heatedly denied for years that chromated copper arsenate(CCA) treated wood, sometimes referred to as pressure treated wood, was completely safe. Quite a few, like myself, in the Landscape Architecture, Horticulture, construction, and gardening fields, noticed CCA(copper, chromium, and especially arsenic - all poisons in sufficient amts) leaching into the soil and water, and possibly inhaled when sawed, posing hazards to humans, plants and wildlife, including amphibians and aquatic life, domesticated animals(pets), and resulting higher than RDA of arsenic content in edible vegetable gardening plants(when the CCA treated wood was used in the vicinity of edible vegetable gardening beds). What was worse was when the CCA treated wood was burned, as is the case in some gardening/farming practices, and the smoke became toxic and inhaled. It took yrs before the EPA stepped in, studied, and recognized the problems with CCA. The chemical, building trades, and lumber industry denied any dangers for years. Now, there are safer compounds for preserving wood.
Near where I live, a large children's playground in excellent condition was totally demolished and the CCA wood removed as hazardous waste because of the possible toxicity it posed to children. The playground was rebuilt using plastic compounds. :confused: The same has been done in inner city community gardens and at Cooperative Extension Service vegetable gardening plots.
Perhaps, some will recall the heavily debated congressional hearings involving what led to the cigarette warning labels. Do you remember the sworn testimony by chemists, M.D.s, toxicologists, pathologists, epidemiologists, respected scientists, tobacco industry representatives, a few Politicians, etc, ALL who were heavily influenced by on the payroll of Big tobacco, OR simply ignorant at best, stating for the record before Congress, there was no proof that tobacco was addictive(habit forming) or caused disease. I ask, "do you think that does not happen today?"
Here's what I want to know. Is there a class action suit I can be part of for my 25 yr exposure to horticultural vermiculite? Cough Cough I haven't seen any afternoon couch potato ambulance chasers advertising for that yet. :D
Rain Man
03-15-2014, 11:34
Rainman - please understand I am wired for "and that's the rest of the story!" I miss Paul Harvey... he had a great radio news minute.
There are risks and death in everything we do... at some point we have to enjoy life..Smoke, Drink, Hike and be happy!
Sorry if this offends anyone....
Doesn't offend me! Now, messing up my name? THAT offends me!!! tee hee
Rain Man
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thecyclops
08-12-2014, 21:23
Well time to bring this classic back up :)
I realized that 2 of my favorite bottles that I acquired for the goodwill,is indeed the "#7 Polycarbonate" BPA plastic nalgenes :( I confirmed this with Mr.Nalgene himself,and was going to just retire it to be a hot water bottle for the winter camping times...But as I googled it,Im seeing that all this BPA stuff MAY just be bunko or junk science brought forth by the corporate greed machine.So Im asking this,if you had these 2 bottles,and also a plethora of other bottles to choose from,would you keep using them? Does the BPA scare,well...scare you? No big deal unless its heated???Does any of you still have and use the classic nalgenes? Im leaning towards keeping them and using them less than I have been...sorry to be beating the proverbial dead horse...
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/540/667/795.gif
Wise Old Owl
08-12-2014, 21:43
Odd as the "Coorporate" Greed machine mentioned was all about selling bottles.... The crap science was dredged up by the Media to keep you informed about stuff that's going to kill you. If the news was Rosie - darn U would not watch! So they constantly barrage you with garbage things that kill people... 600 folks died from overfilling Propane tanks amongst millions of tanks.. today we have legislated OPD and millions of old steel canisters that were not recycled - filled up landfills. Not even close to leave no trace.
thecyclops
08-12-2014, 22:14
Odd as the "Coorporate" Greed machine mentioned was all about selling bottles.... The crap science was dredged up by the Media to keep you informed about stuff that's going to kill you. If the news was Rosie - darn U would not watch! So they constantly barrage you with garbage things that kill people... 600 folks died from overfilling Propane tanks amongst millions of tanks.. today we have legislated OPD and millions of old steel canisters that were not recycled - filled up landfills. Not even close to leave no trace.
Im not sure what I just read...Im thinking you are saying that BPA sux? That you trust the BPA free fad???
thecyclops
08-12-2014, 22:16
Or perhaps you are saying the BPA free thing is $hit....Wise old owl,talk like yoda,you do.
Wise Old Owl
08-12-2014, 22:26
I love your post - great graphic. Honest you are more likely to be injured in a drive by shooting or an accident driving to the trail. Stay away from cliffs...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVvMso7yaHA
thecyclops
08-12-2014, 22:34
I love your post - great graphic. Honest you are more likely to be injured in a drive by shooting or an accident driving to the trail. Stay away from cliffs...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVvMso7yaHA
LOL,Great video!!Think the first one nailed it"You must unlearn,what you have learned"
I hear you...I think Ill be sure to not heat the bottle,but keep using them.I suppose if I end up with BPA rectal cancer,Ill be the first.
Wise Old Owl
08-12-2014, 22:39
Enjoy... now learn basic survival in the woods. I think there is a chapter about boiling water with a wood fire in a plastic bottle!
Odd Man Out
08-13-2014, 12:07
I wouldn't not say that the BPA scare was driven by corporate greed. My post from a long time ago about the corporate toxicologist whose job it was to determine if the company should make BPA free stuff. Her conclusion was that here was no health benefit to go BPA free, but the company did nevertheless because the MARKETING TEAM said that if they didn't go BPA-free, they wouldn't be able to sell anything.
thecyclops
08-13-2014, 15:03
Guess Im gonna play plastic roulette.I just went this morning to my secret spot :) and was able to secure 2 more old school 1 liter nalgenes/polycarbonates,a ZEFAL 2 liter hydro bladder and a new 1 liter SIGG aluminum canteen for $2.37 :) Long live goodwill
BuckeyeBill
08-17-2014, 00:43
What is BPA ?
BPA stands for bisphenol A. BPA is an industrial chemical that has been used to make certain plastics and resins since the 1960s. BPA is found in polycarbonate plastics and epoxy resins. Polycarbonate plastics are often used in containers that store food and beverages, such as water bottles.
Pedaling Fool
10-01-2015, 10:36
I wonder how BPA affects mealworms. BTW, my compost pile produces tons of mealworms, but I will still keep the plastic out... This story sounds too good to be true, but will be interested to track it and see what becomes of it... http://www.popsci.com/mealworms-can-safely-devour-plastics
P.S. As an aside not, I do remember hearing people that raise chickens talking about how they will eat Styrofoam, wonder what becomes of the plastic in that case...
Excerpt:
"Mealworms are those squirmy guys you took care of in science class or fed to a particularly hungry pet chicken or reptile. And new studies from Stanford suggest that these creepy crawlers could be incredibly good for the environment.Two papers, published in Environmental Science and Technology this week, found that mealworms can eat Styrofoam, turning a huge source of waste into compost that can be safely used on soil.
"Sometimes, science surprises us. This is a shock," said Craig Criddle, who supervises plastics research at Stanford, in a press release.
Styrofoam, and in particular Styrofoam cups, are everywhere, and less than 10 percent of those used in the United States get recycled. In the first study (http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.est.5b02661)researchers found that mealworms fed only Styrofoam were just as healthy as mealworms fed the more traditional meal (bran, in this case). Each worm could eat about a pill-sized portion every day."
perdidochas
10-01-2015, 11:14
I still use a bladder and a soft Nalgene canteen that are pre-BPA free frenzy.
Neither of those products had BPA in them. BPA is primarily in hard, clear plastics.
perdidochas
10-01-2015, 11:15
Glad to learn that. So, why do the new soft sided bottles and the new bladders indicate BPA free? Just advertising gimmick?
Well, because it's the truth. Now, it's also the truth that they have always been BPA free.